Years ago — the record is here somewhere — I decided that to be able to write I needed to get out of the house.

That wasn’t exactly wrong. I had identified the fact that I needed to set regular hours and that the kids being late high school and college were in and out at all sorts of odd times, interrupting the flow of words.

The problem is the place I picked, which was downtown Colorado Springs (half an hour walk from then-home) on Bijou, between Tejon and Nevada (I think.)

You see, I hadn’t realized the building in which I rented a one-room office I could afford at the time was depopulating.  And also that it had no doorman or guard of any sort, and being near the library was subject to strange people wandering the halls.  I think it was $250 a month for my little one room, and we made it very pleasant, and for about a month it was great, even if my mind was slipping from hypothyroidism.

The thing is, the little room had no bathroom, so I had to leave my office to go to the bathroom a couple/three times a day.

I think I realized two or three days in that the names on the door were actually old, and that many of the offices, like the psychologist across from mine, were actually long-gone.

The building was mostly empty, and then it lost the thing that kept it alive: being used for meetings by AA.  And the hallways started to have… interesting characters.

One day I was leaving my office to go to the bathroom, and stepping out I met with a man who looked… well…

It wasn’t that he wasn’t human. He was. It was that he was a feral human.

I’ve been in situations where people were directly threatening me, where I wasn’t as scared as just with a glimpse of that man’s face.  He was human, but as though the long slate of human civilization had been wiped clean.  There was no higher self, no mercy, no thought. He was as blank and feral as an infant, driven by impulse.

I retreated into my office before the impulse acted.

Looking through a crack near the hinges, I saw him standing there, staring at the door, hunting me.  Like a cat waiting for a mouse.

I could have called my husband, waited for him to come get me.  But I needed to get to the bathroom and I wanted to get out of there.  It occurred to me to play an audio book that was read by a man and sounded like someone talking, REALLY loudly.

It worked.  Five minutes later, he was gone.  The idea the office was probably larger and a male might come out didn’t sit well with him. He apparently only hunted smaller and older.

I waited a little longer, went out carefully, and ran out of the building, to the street, then home.  That was the last time I worked in that office.

Did I make too much of it?  No. There was no security in that building, and I understood why the little offices, usually occupied by a person, alone, were emptying.  If I’d had a buddy in town who’d share the office with me, particularly a male, who would walk with me to the bathroom and wait outside, that office was tenable.  As it was, though? No.

As for the feral man? Who was he?

I don’t know.  Maybe drugs were involved.  Almost for sure drugs were involved, but I didn’t get the feeling just then.  He was homeless, for sure. Not overly clean. Not wasted from drug use.  He was wearing clothes and carried a backpack, but the feeling was like looking in the eyes of a feral ape.  Not even the zoo ones.  They had more … humanity.

This came to mind as I was reading about San Francisco Poop Maps.

The belief these days, about humans, is that we are the apes that domesticated ourselves.  Sure, of course, natural selection, but I wonder how much of that.  Natural selection is relatively slow, and the ferals, which we largely know as psychopaths tend to still leave lots of children.  Women fall in love with convicted murderers and marry them on death row.  Etc.

A lot of it, I think, is raising.

Cats and dogs left to hunt for themselves from an early age, go feral.  Hogs more so.  And hogs, like us, are scavengers.

For years now we’ve gone soft on feral behavior. From children, too. We’ve refused to curb the “Want” and “Impulse” under the belief that the natural man is some kind of angel.  Having children raised by strangers that couldn’t care less is not helpful.

But now we’re doing the same to the adults. There is a difference between compassion and enabling.

We all know of addicts who use compassion as a weapon to get to what they want.  I’d argue that’s the way of feral man.  Wheedle and creep until you can pounce and tear. Except that they don’t even need to wheedle and creep.

In Denver as in CA (and because the state was taken by the same kind of pettyfogging day-dreaming, too wealthy to understand harsh realities party) they’ve now made pooping on the streets legal, because they don’t want people to be deported for “just that” as though people who ignore a basic rule of human decency and public hygiene were precious resources to keep around.

They’ve already made vagrancy and begging de-facto legal.

And I’m sure they plume themselves on their compassion.  But what they’re actually doing is being nice to the ferals and encouraging them to make everyone’s life miserable, and to drive away small businesses, to drive women from public spaces, to destroy the fabric of society.

Man is the self-domesticating ape.  How many feral humans can our very wealthy society tolerate?

I’d bet not as many as the lotus-eaters at the top think we can.  And when the productive people get tired, it will get very ugly very fast.  Civilized man always wins over the ferals and the apes, who are incapable of loyalty higher than a small band.  They also, arguably, always win over the lotus-eating mandarins.

It’s a story as old as time, but it will still surprise the heck out of those who think that in feral they’ll find the noble savage.

When in fact it holds nothing but destruction, including of the feralized individual.  You see they are not WILD apes. Not really.  Only feral.  Just like abandoned cats and dogs aren’t wild animals, just animals who’ve learned to get what they want from human society while not submitting to it.

If society, and our present abundance falls, the ferals will go as fast as the pampered.  They have no ability to fend for themselves more than the pampered do.

And neither they nor the mandarins will ever see it coming.


238 thoughts on “Feral

  1. Rousseau’s notion of the “noble savage” may have caused more trouble than just about any other idea. And yes, I include Marxism in that. Mostly because Marxism is rooted in that silliness.

    The “noble savage” nonsense has led us to tolerate, even celebrate, lower-class dysfunction. There was once a day when the lower class aspired to become middle class…today, it is the middle class that is slumping toward lower-class status. Take a look at the out-of-wedlock birth rates. Or take a look at the tattoos.

    And I fear that the only solution will be to reestablish the old aristocratic privileges and assign them to the demonstrably middle class.

    1. This. The “noble savage” drives me right up the wall. Kids are born savages, with all the cruelty that implies, and far too many adults have been eager to give up the hard work of civilizing the little brats.

      It’s destructive to civilization, and it’s painful and sometimes lethal to Odds – because savages are tribal, and heaven forfend you should be just a little different than the rest of them when they can get you out of sight from anyone willing to lift a finger to stop them,

      1. Yesterday had some long conversations.

        One of the things that came up was half recent, and half new thought.

        Recently, I’d remembered or realized again that my view of human society is at its core what I learned on the playground of a daycare. (We were brats. I saw us for what we were, and remembered.)

        The academics in sociology, psychology, anthropology, and all that? Maybe a lot of them had pretty bad primary and secondary school experiences, and the first place they found a safe home in was academia and university. For such a person it would be pretty tempting to hide in that, and pretend that a fancy intellectual environment is something for everyone, and from there conclude the nonsense about peaceful prehistory.

      2. Had a random thought collision the other day.

        Each generation, civilization is invaded by a barbarian horde.
        We call them “children,:

        The baby boom was an unprecedented horde, on a population that had just come back from fighting another conflict and where there hadn’t been anywhere near the numbers.


        I don’t know if this will actually DO anything for predictive abilities, but maybe it’s a useful metaphor for figuring out things that go wrong in the current culture? Do we know of other cultures dealing with a barbarian invasion? (Where we know what happened. Not counting the EU with their barbarian invasion. And yes, anybody getting the vapors, killing rape victims, raping those of other groups, and general “it doesn’t matter unless they can hurt me” behaviors are barbaric.)

      3. Oh yeah. There was a time when we lived in a neighborhood with a squatter slum very near it; and the kids there were definitely feral. They were kept somewhat in check by parents, related adults and older siblings who used the fist (or whatever was handy) as the form of punishment, and quite honestly they would have been uncontrolled by the current Western trends of refusing to spank or discipline, and penalizing the parents for trying. Nothing short of beatings would have cowed those kids. And the thing is, in their own way, per their culture, they were somewhat civilized; in that they knew who was ‘prey’ and who wasn’t, who to be polite to, and who to smile at while picking their pocket.

    2. “And I fear that the only solution will be to reestablish the old aristocratic privileges and assign them to the demonstrably middle class.”
      For many on the Left, that’s the real goal. Not Marxist equality, but a return to Aristocracy with them at the top.

        1. There is a difference between end stage Marxism and feudalism.
          Feudal society believed obligations flowed both ways. End stage Marxism believes the rulers owe the ruled nothing.

    3. I have two thoughts on the whole Nobel Savage and ‘Act Naturally’ idiocy;

      1) People who believe that children should be allowed to act naturally should remember that Rousseau made his mistress out theirs in an orphanage.

      2) Nobody free of inhibitions is fit for polite society. Please develop some.

  2. We moved from our first home and sold it because the neighborhood went downhill, badly. The house next door to us housed three (probably soon to be four) generations of near-feral adults and fully-feral children. I did not want my children growing up near that.

      1. Downtown San Jose was getting that way by the 1990s. Light rail from south of downtown to the courthouse/jail north of there was getting to be interesting, yet another reason to commute by car. (No shortage of other reasons; the county politico who pushed light rail ended up leading Jerry Brown’s toy train fantasy.)

    1. It’s not the reason we left, but at one of the apartment complexes near where I used to live, the police have been called so often that they’re talking about putting in a permanent substation. The sad thing is that I used to walk around there thinking what a good place it would be to raise kids: good schools, lots of parks and neighborhood playgrounds, and while I occasionally saw graffiti, it was always cleaned up so that I never saw it two days in a row.

      When things go downhill, they tend to go fast.

      1. If you took the first freeway exit into my town you’d pass two large apartment buildings, then the city park. The location apparently made it ideal for the “drug culture” who infested the area.

        The town retaliated by shutting down the park, which made little difference. Then – I wish I had attended those City Council meetings – the town found funds to buy the two apartment buildings. Which they then knocked down. Then they re-opened the park.

        I still suspect some real estate shenanigans were involved – here, at least, almost all of the city management have some kind of connection with real estate – but it was certainly an interesting method of dealing with the problem.

  3. A class in Cultural Anthropology and learning about the “damn” Yanomami cured one real fast about the fallacy of the “Noble Savage”. Deprived of civilization, most humans go feral fast. It’s in our nature.

  4. It is, as I think Heinlein said (or at least would agree with), a very bad thing when a society stops expecting dignity and self-respect, and worse when it rewards the opposites.

  5. Civilization is falling. Things you took for granted as children, such as good well maintained roads are gone. It took 440 days to build the Empire State building. Now it takes that long to get an appt. to see the guy who tells you you’re at the wrong dept. and have to wait to see another guy who will give you more run around. Nothing seems to work as well as before. The big cities don’t that’s for sure. Of course a certain 7th century civilization won’t be able to impose world dominance when civilization collapse. The third world should do ok once the readjust to pre twentieth century living.
    I guess that will just be our BAD LUCK.

    1. Civilization isn’t falling. The elites are trying to take it down, partly through malice mostly through stupidity.
      There is already a correction under way. The only question is what will the butcher’s bill be.

      1. The Elites are trying to take it down because they believe, based on God alone knows what, that when it falls they will be on top of the heap. And telling them that they will be on their knees with their collective tongue up the fundament of whatever Stalin emerges will get you blank stares.

      1. I fear that we are headed for that hard correction very soon, probably late next year.
        Should Trump win reelection the left will do their level best to set the country on fire. The resolution of that kerfuffle should prove epic.
        And if the Dems manage to cheat their way into office they will declare their “win” as a mandate to enact every left wing wet dream from socialized medicine, to wealth confiscation, to draconian gun control, and the list goes on. Resistance to that from the regular citizens will be even more severe, with a potential for that real Civil War that’s been bandied about for so long.

        1. I’m going to be very, very curious to see if the states that voted to require their electors to vote with the national popular vote stick to their guns should the national popular vote be for Trump. *evil kitty grin*

          I also wonder just how high we’ll have to get the voter turn out in order to nullify margin-of-fraud.

          1. Got your popcorn ready? The way the democrat field is going they are handing President Trump a second term by both the popular vote AND electoral college vote. President Trump won’t take the election for granted either; firmly believe it is not in his character to take anything for granted.

            1. Don’t forget to e-mail (or write) your approval to the White House. Even a guy as narcissistic as President Trump needs encouragement in the face of such a tsunami of disapproval.

            2. I truly believe that the Democrat Old Guard is doing this on purpose. That they are concerned over their positions IN THE PARTY, after the cluster grope of 2016, and are setting up those who might challenge them for failure.

              Maybe I’m wrong, but how else does one explain competent politicians taking Elizabeth Warren seriously?

              1. I question the term ‘competent politicians’. I’m not sure there IS such a beast. Which would also explain why everyone is kowtowing to the likes of Occasional Cortex.

                1. A competent Politician is one who gets elected and stays elected. It is NOT a moral or ethical judgement.

                  Nancy ‘I’ve had so much plastic Surgery I’m no longer biodegradable’ Pelosi is a competent politician. Whether AOC is remains to be seen.

                  1. Eh, fair enough. I admit, I tend to conflate “competent” and “intelligent”–but it’s true that one can be a ‘competent’ politician and not even have a nodding a nodding acquaintance with intelligence.

                2. I think the Democratic Party establishment is expecting to either A. repeat of the 1972 election–the one they used to put in the superdelegate rule–which will discredit their radicals and ensconce them in charge; or B. ride the radical wave and still be the ones actually in charge while the radicals pose and preen for the cameras.

        2. Been looking at Iowa politics lately, mostly at Caffeinated Thoughts. (the friend of the cousin of a guild mate’s buddy introduced me to it, been reading for over a decade now although I got distracted a bit)

          As best I can tell, they got just that kind of “we won, it’s a mandate, DO ALL THE THINGS!!!” wave.
          Mostly because every dang week it’s “the state reps repealed X liberal wetdream, plus Y. The state congress passed law banning this thing that has been abused via that obviously liberal imposed law. They also cannexed…..”

  6. Whatever. You’re racisssssst.

    Shhh… Someone Did Something to ‘Easter Worshippers’ in Sri Lanka
    By Sarah Hoyt
    And you thought we were done with “is it stupidity or malice?” during the Obama years.

    Apparently not.

    Because today we get this:


    Gonna quote Power Line quoting Professor Adrian Vermeule’s summary of an argument made by Polish philosopher Ryszard Legutko:

    Liberalism needs an enemy to maintain its sacramental dynamism. It can never rest in calm waters, basking in the day of victory; it is essential that at any given moment there should be a new battle to be fought. The good liberal should always be able to say, “We have made progress, but there is still much to do.” This is why the triumph of same-sex marriage actually happened too suddenly and too completely. Something else was needed to animate liberalism, and transgenderism has quickly filled the gap, defining new forces of reaction and thus enabling new iterations and celebrations of the Festival. And if endorsement and approval of self-described “gender identity” becomes a widely shared legal and social norm, a new frontier will be opened, and some new issue will move to the top of the public agenda, something that now seems utterly outlandish and is guaranteed to provoke fresh opposition from the cruel forces of reaction—polygamy, perhaps, or mandatory vegetarianism.

    They’re all probably racissssst. Proglodytes can never be satisfied because they imagine the world could be made Utopia if only enough Bad people were eliminated.

    They’ve got a lot in common with some people who did somethings.

    1. Alas, I’m coming closer to the opinion that proglodytes by the most part, aren’t educable. Topic of immigration came up at a friend’s house this weekend, and I’m been asked to not come back due to my “hate speech”. Reasoned debate is dead, and the only question now is how soon the violence will come, how widespread it will be, and how long it will last. And isn’t that a sucky thing to be dwelling on the day after Easter?

        1. Ah. My older brother one summer in college was so happy – he got to work for Ralph Nader (mid-1970s, Ford was president). Two weeks before his internship ended, he was mugged. He changed the emphasis of his major, broke up with the girlfriend who was working for ACORN, and has raised two daughters who are libertarian-leaning Republicans.

      1. Mike, I suspect that your only mistake was in assuming that you were at a friend’s house. Sounds more like an acquaintance at best, and most certainly no true friend.

        1. Just before moving back here, i went to a friend in the animation industry’s birthday party at one of those trendy bar/arcade things… hanging out talkign shop and drinking and playing games was fine, but they they sat down and started talking politics (this is a year and a half ago) and all they could talk about was how horrible of a president Trump was and how the economy was so totally destroyed and it was all his fault. I made a few halfhearted attempts to get them to consider that maybe the terrible economy was a localized effect (i.e., CA’s economy took a looooot longer to pick up than the rest of the country and their unemployment rate is still *significantly* higher than the rest of the country) to no avail. This is a slightly different group of animation industry friends than the ones bemoaning that their teenage-to-post-teen kids can’t find jobs (in CA) who somehow won’t consider that maybe its the $12+/hr minimum wage… or the one who went from barely being able to meet his house payment six months before trump to looking at buying a Tesla six months after…

          Short version: yes, it is possible to be friends with people you don’t politically agree with. Not fun, but possible.

          1. It’s possible, certainly, but that requires the other people to be willing to be friends with those they don’t politically agree with as well. “Don’t come back because of your hate speech” kinda suggests to me that any tolerance was one-sided.

          2. I had a similar thing happen a while back. An old friend and his wife came into town for a visit. Unfortunately, the topic of Trump and the economy came up. I, of course, said that I don’t like Trump personally (I’m very open about that) BUT, I like the things he’s done to help the economy. My friend argued that the GDP going from 2% under Obama to close to 4% growth under Trump, WAS A BAD THING!.. Lower unemployment? BAD. Lowest unemployment EVER for minorities? BAD! Vastly improved work participation rate? BAD BAD BAD!!… Are you ready for this? Because companies MIGHT hire people who don’t do a good job. Basically, anything that might be attributed to Trump was automatically bad, no matter what, for the LAMEST of reasons (when you could get him to give any).

    2. The current number I am hearing is that Muslims murdered 90 thousand Christians for their religion last year.

  7. There’s this insidious pop pseudo-psych notion that people cannot restrain their less civilized impulses, and furthermore, that they shouldn’t even try. I hear it most commonly expressed in connection with teenage sexuality, but but it’s present in many other contexts. I cannot imagine any idea more effective at producing neo-barbs and ferals.

    1. YOU can’t control your impulses. That means it’s everyone else’s duty to control themselves around you to fit you. . . .

      1. “Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we were meant to rise above.” — C. S. Forester (The African Queen)

    2. What those who hold that notion fail to comprehend is that such restraint is the only thing holding some of us back from tar and feather parties and impromptu lynchings. Or that even such restraint does have its limits.

      1. Impossible. There’s no restraint to limit, because we are totes cowards who are purely intimidated, and there is no possibility that, even if we were so crippled by fear, that we could still be forced into a corner.

    3. Hey, If I can restrain myself from raping and pillaging the coastlines of the British Isles in a longboat, other people can damn well step up and act civilized too!

      1. Except that the pressure to not stay that way is getting stronger. Even I sometimes now get that urge to pillage and kill, even if I’d not step on a longboat (I get seasick) and I’m not a Viking. Just so pissed, sometimes, and want some sort of release…

  8. Well, yeah. We are a species that *requires* about 12 years of intense training before we can function as adults. That is hugely expensive. It is also a hugely specialized adaptation, unique in the animal kingdom by most of an order of magnitude. So it is no surprise that if the training does not happen or goes awry, Very Bad Things happen. It’s not like you just end up with some incapable machine. Nor a tabula rasa. *Something* gets imprinted during those oh-so-imprintable years. No, you end up with an example of the most capable and dangerous species in the Universe, so far as we know, that is Feral, as Sarah points out. That is, in a very real sense Not-Human.

    That’s a hugely, hugely dangerous thing to have running around loose. And we create more every day.

    Rousseau did a huge amount of damage to the West.

    Just because you can see that Something is Bad, does NOT mean that Other-Something is Good. Smart people are often too stupid to figure this out, in my experience. Shiny, shiny.

    1. No, they are still one hundred percent human.

      It is just that human doesn’t mean what people like to think it does.

      Nomad herdsman, semi-nomadic hunter gatherers, sedentary agriculturalists. We that use computers to communicate in English are inherently of civilization built on top of agricultural society.

      That doesn’t force one to conclude that the sedentary have a right and responsibility to displace or destroy nomadic populations.

      There are practical limits in the populations that can be expected to coexist peacefully.

    2. We are a species that *requires* about 12 years of intense training before we can function as adults

      *raises hand with index finger extended* Note, this includes from infancy.

      And basically EVERYBODY fails at least part of it and has to start over, so very very rarely will you have an adult-functioning 12 year old.

      1. Oddly enough, it seems like most of the adult-functioning 12 year olds are the ones who have to take the responsibility of running a household or die. Not exactly a fair thing to do with a kid.

  9. Peter Grant loaned me a book (_Dark Nature_ by Lyall Watson_)about the nature or evil, or more correctly, how things that we humans now deem evil—that which produces or increases chaos—might actually be beneficial to the genes (increase gene transmission, like a step-parent killing the step-child to secure more resources for their own offspring, and other things). The author attended the trial of two boys who murdered a third, and what struck him was the empty, feral look that Sarah exactly described. What should have been there… wasn’t. And the accused had not yet learned to hide that emptiness the way adult killers did.

    1. There’s a reason why our forebears were so much more willing to use capital punishment.

    2. That empty look is one of the reasons I am not Pro-Life. I don’t believe that God will condemn an infant soul to purgatory until the Second Coming, but my observation has been that humanity is a learned behavior. I am aware that these positions appear to be contradictions, but they satisfy my need to analyze what I think of as the worst case balance. Worst case of abortion; the fetus was human and had a soul. Since I don’t believe God is rules-obsessed enough to bar such a soul from Paradise and/or rebirth, this isn’t too bad. Worst case of taking an unwanted to Term; should are not inborn. They grow in fertile soil, and sometimes they don’t, and sometimes, rarely, they grow in rocky ground…but that isn’t the way to bet. Bring the unwanted to term and you are, most likely, wishing a Feral on the world.


      Ultimately, we are going to see the field top Pro-Life. That isn’t the End of the World that Planned Un-Parenthood would like us to believe. Very likely, Abortion will continue to be legal in, say, Las Vegas or The Peoples Republic of Boston. But the Kermit Gosnell mess convinced me that the Pro-Choice side are too stupid to win. THEY KNEW ABOUT HIM! They knew about him for YEARS, and didn’t ever consider what a public relations disaster he was going to be when he was exposed….unless they blew the whistle on him themselves.

      I’m amazed such people remember to BREATHE!

      1. They grow in fertile soil, and sometimes they don’t, and sometimes, rarely, they grow in rocky ground…but that isn’t the way to bet. Bring the unwanted to term and you are, most likely, wishing a Feral on the world

        Except the percentage of ferals increased after abortion on demand.

        I’ve only known a few ferals, and they were ‘wanted’. Just not as people. As extensions of the parents.
        Their existing fulfilled that, and the care was farmed out…unless the caregiver did something that hit the parents’ ego, in which case they defended them from basic discipline.
        When they became adults, they usually went to college, got away from the parents, and then went to a druggy hell.

        1. Kids who are feral in a bad way, with something almost soulless about them, are usually sociopaths. They have been deprived or trained away from having a distinction between good and evil, and from having an empathy for others or themselves.

          That said, there are sociopaths who develop a code of behavior, or who are taught to adopt one. They can be productive members of society and doers of good.

          But cutting out someone’s eyes, or depriving them of Vitamin A, does not mean they did not have eyes to start out with. Sociopaths have souls, whether or not they know what to do with them.

          1. *nod* Natural Law philosophy shows you can reason your way to morality, so a lack of a natural guide isn’t absolute.

            It’s like the folks who think that if you don’t express your emotions the way they expect, you don’t have any and can be abused at will.

  10. Filling libraries with homeless and disparaging books. Not a good long term situation.

  11. Assuming that there are facilities available to all and sundry without restriction; then defecation outside the facilities for that purpose should be punishable by $1000 fine for first offense and escalating by a factor of 10 for each subsequent offense; or 10 lashes per $1000 if the defendant can’t, or chooses not to, pay. No penalty for the state or the punishers if the defendant dies from the flogging. The people excusing this kind of behavior also deserve the flogging because they’re too stupid to remember history by any other means.

      1. And everyone can pay a penalty enforced with the rod, while I’d hazard 99% of those doing public defecation literally don’t have a pot to pee in, let alone money to pay fines. (The remaining 1% being adept beggars who make a good living at it.)

        1. I suppose we could be “civilized” about it, the way the MI was in Starship Troopers (the book), and provide medical treatment for the wounds after they’ve received their punishment. No pain killer though! That would negate the whole process.

  12. “One day I was leaving my office to go to the bathroom, and stepping out I met with a man who looked… well… It wasn’t that he wasn’t human. He was. It was that he was a feral human.”

    Ha, yeah! I’ve seen -that- before. Had four of them size me up for a beating in Yonkers NY one day heading into work. Right out in front of the hospital, 8AM, there they were, looking at me like I might be food. So I shouted at them, dared them to come on over and try their luck.

    Which was -stupid- because 4 on 1, I was going down.

    But it wasn’t stupid because they knew I was in the mood to fuck them up, and I’d take at least one of them down with me. They walked off, tails down.

    I saw coyotes do -exactly- the same thing in South Mountain Park when I was out with the dog once. They sized us up, decided they were all going to die if they tried it, and sloped off. I could see the frigging wheels turning.

    “There was no higher self, no mercy, no thought. He was as blank and feral as an infant, driven by impulse. I retreated into my office before the impulse acted.”

    What, you don’t think the Bonnie McDaniel “Teaching Men Not To Rape” thing was going to be a good option there?

    This type of guy is the reason women wear the Burka in the Middle East. In defense of that tent-like garment, I will say it has two great virtues. First, the attacker can’t see your feet. That’s a big advantage. Second, you can hide a katana and a machine gun under that thing. [watching too much anime.]

    “Man is the self-domesticating ape. How many feral humans can our very wealthy society tolerate?”

    We are going to find out. Possibly this year, as San Francisco’s Poop Map keeps expanding, and I read that a city employee is suing the city government of Los Angeles for five million bucks because she caught typhus at work. Like, in a city office building. Because the indigent bring it in with them when they visit the offices. New York City is shrinking because of the same causes, feral humans de-civilizing the place.

    This is what makes Trump’s threat to send ALL the illegals to Sanctuary Cities so hilarious. They’re already teetering on the brink of collapse with the illegals and drug addicts roaming freely. Add a million more beggars a month, and the inhabitants will drive every DemocRat out of town with fire and a sword.

    1. A threat I wish he had not made. He should have DONE it.

      One thing I’ve learned is that you don’t make threats. Or make a threat and call it a “promise”. No. You strike…as hard as possible, and keep hitting until your opponent stops moving.

      1. The beauty of making the threat is that Trump loses nothing by it. He makes the likes of Mayor Deblasio walk his talk, and it doesn’t cost a dime.

        DeBlasio’s NYC is pursuing a suit in Federal court to prevent Trump from sending them more “migrants.” Watching that guy talk out of both side of his mouth at once is awesome!

      2. Have to remember that Trump is a master of negotiation. Threats from him are merely opening bids.

      3. From what I understand, the idea basically was about what to do with people who get caught entering the country illegally, and have been granted a hearing to determine whether or not they should be allowed to stay. The government doesn’t have the facilities to hold them all, and has been catching all kinds of flack (much of it based on bad information, from what I can tell) over the issue. And as we’re probably all already aware, the government’s solution to this has been the so-called “catch and release” solution, in which someone is informed of their court date, and released with a promise to appear on that date. As one would expect, most don’t bother to show up.

        What Trump REALLY wants is to keep them south of the border in Mexico while their status is adjudicated. This would solve the catch and release problem. But a stay had been placed on that policy pending a trial in the US 9th Circuit.

        And then almost immediately after Trump floated the idea of releasing illegals into sanctuary cities, a three judge panel in the 9th Circuit lifted the stay. So the Federal Government is now free to send illegals back to Mexico until their schedule hearing takes place.

        Problem solved for the time being, and there’s currently no more need to dump the illegals in Sanctuary Cities – at least not until the 9th Circuit hearing takes place, and the judges who participate in it issue their ruling.

        1. “9th Circuit lifted the stay”

          As in “Oh, darn it, that makes sense and it is going to actually affect us????? What the heck?” (yes, I did clean up “their thought language” …) No, that didn’t happen; not at all!!!

          1. It was a three judge panel. And if you look at decisions made by three judge panels in the 9th Circuit, they’re often rational and reasonable.

            The thing that people don’t often realize is that there are a large number of sane, reasonable judges on the 9th Circuit. The problem is that there are even more completely loopy, over the top nut cases. So even when a three judge panel does issue a good ruling, that ruling gets appealed to an en banc hearing by the 9th Circuit (which involves all of the judges), and the good ruling gets overturned by a loopy one.

            Trump’s working on the 9th Circuit, and with his appointments, we’re getting much closer to fixing the problems with the Circuit.

        2. As one would expect, most don’t bother to show up.

          A lot of bad information related to that fact, too.

          They pad the numbers for final deportation hearings with all the other ones, and combine illegals with legit refugees. So your bare minimum would be a 50% show up rate, because that’s how they enter the system.

        3. Thing is, here’s what we’re doing with the family units: we’re sending them onto their destination here with a notice to appear in court.
          As mentioned, guess how many show up?
          Good night, I’d be willing to give anyone who actually bothered to show up for their hearing an immigrant visa on the spot.

          1. “Good night, I’d be willing to give anyone who actually bothered to show up for their hearing an immigrant visa on the spot.”

            And not advertise it. With it comes a warning that if you speak of getting your immigrant visa for showing up for your hearing, you automatically loose it … everyone else, bench warrant for immediate removal regardless of age. Might allow under aged to be surrendered to foster care or orphanage (not that that is a good option either); including any anchor babies born since …

        4. I would be fine with dumping them in the United States. I’m sure there are suitable places in the HI-2nd congressional district.

    2. I kind of prefer Jeff Cooper’s method of teaching rapists not to rape any more. (Or breathe, but that’s not the responsibility of the defender.)

      A fairly small hospital worker I knew took that course (Basic Pistol); I don’t think she used the information at that time, but she was pretty good with a 1911. (Some small hands work well with it; YMMV.) She felt it made the night shift a lot safer.

      1. I’m a huge fan of victims dealing out the punishment at the time of the attack. I’m an even bigger fan of government coming along after the event and chucking what’s left of the attacker in jail where he can’t hurt anyone else.

        Currently we live under a regime that seeks to ensure victims can’t fight back, and never puts anyone in jail for anything. I guess we’ll see how long that lasts.

        The return swing on that pendulum is going to be a bitch though.

        1. Oh, they’ll put *you* in jail if you hurt someone while defending yourself. Just ask George Zimmerman (not, as it turns out, that he is a paragon of virtue).

          1. I live in Canada. They’d put me in jail if I stopped a terror attack with a snow cone and bad language. Police are supposed to do that, proles are supposed to die until the police get there.

      2. A 1911 with a stack of 230gr JHP will make anyone feel safe, as long as it’s not pointed at you.

      3. The fact that the United Kingdom has virtually forbidden its subjects the ability to defend themselves from attack whether by firearm or other means is the primary reason that such a once civilized and law abiding domain now has a violent crime rate some five or six times that of the United States.

        1. This. It’s heartbreaking to read about people afraid to even consider defending themselves. It’s as if the PTB (powers that be) cherish the ferals and criminals more than ordinary, harmless citizens.

        2. Is that true? I had the impression that the US was a lot more violent, though we do have areas where members of certain groups seem to be stabbing each other at an astonishing rate.

          1. I seem to recall seeing the per capita rates were seriously higher in the UK. There is a problem in that the U.S. and the U.K. categorize violent crimes differently, making direct 1-to-1 matchups just about impossible.

            Other thing to remember is that we’re exposed to American media, which pad their news with as much domestic violence as possible to maximize readership. They rarely mention foreign violence unless it involves an American. Truth is, who cares if someone gets something violent done to them by someone in a foreign land, as long as they aren’t a friend or relative? None of us can save 1 billion individuals. And we probably don’t have the resources to save them as a group either. Add to the fact that doing so places them in a state of dependency on us and increasing the probability that we have to keep saving them, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

          2. The trick there is that they report raw numbers. And the US is a lot bigger.

            That’s before silly games in some areas where a guy who is beaten to death is recorded as an “assault” because he wasn’t declared dead until he hit the hospital. (If I remember correctly, that started after this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html . IT’s not unknown in the US, either, that’s how the Parkland shooter stayed on the loose as a known violent nutbag.)

            1. Chicago has been pulling a similar trick to make parts of their murder rate look less horrible. If somebody is alive when they get to the hospital with a gunshot wound and survive for X hours (don’t know the value of X), it’s not recorded as a “gunshot murder”.

            1. “once you adapt for our states being country-sized.”

              Or bigger than most countries …

          3. Violent attacks are fantastically higher in Britain than the USA, more than double. There’s really no comparison between the two places.

            The other thing that differs is that in Britain the attacks are much more evenly spread across the geography. More in cities, but still plenty in the countryside. In the USA virtually -all- the violence is concentrated in the centers of the large cities. Look at a crime map some time, and even Chicago is mostly crime free, with a huge cluster of mayhem down in the crappy part of town.

            1. That’s interesting. I suppose the “countryside” in the USA is a vastly bigger space, where people are more spread out and less likely to encounter each other. In England in particular, there’s hardly anywhere that’s truly remote or isolated. I believe there are increasing problems with drug-dealing gangs expanding their networks from the cities to small towns and rural areas too (probably helped by the same fact that “rural” is usually just a short drive from the nearest city.

              1. It includes towns and small cities– basically “rural” in this instance is entire counties, just not Seattle size cities.

                There are some gangs that move in here…thing is, if it’s not cartels or other well organized things, they only last until they try to disappear someone who is armed.

                There’s a running trope that when a career criminal gets shot by the guy he was trying to rob, his family will cry and howl that it wasn’t FAIR for the victim to fight back.

                1. Yeah, I hear that one a lot. There was one particularly noxious one where the mother of the burglar in question got upset that he was killed in the house invasion. “He was just there to steal, that’s not enough reason for my boy to lose his life” or something similarly stupid.

                  Except that the ‘boy’ was not a child nor a slender preteen, but a huge hulking man with a rap sheet as long as he was tall and there was indications he meant to do harm to the inhabitants of the house as well…

                  1. “You shouldn’t put people to death for robbery!”

                    And don’t get me started on the outrage when the guy they wanted to beat into the hospital shot them instead of taking an “ass whuppin’.”

              2. There’s also, of late, been the statistical trick that has been happening, where if the perp is of certain minority groups, there’s a fair chance the report or case is very quietly dropped to improve the statistics in that district, or to avoid being called ‘racist.’

                See Rotherham for a particularly horrible example in that regard. I know of at least one person who wasn’t aware of that particular atrocity, when he was waxing happily about Britain and it’s ‘low crime rate’ and shied away from my educating him beyond ‘you mean the non-prosecution of rape gangs of girl children and teenagers for literal years and years because they were all Islamic and the authorities didn’t pursue it because they didn’t want to be called racist?’ Said he didn’t want to have his day utterly destroyed.

                *glances at the Telegraph article* It’s probably worse now, especially in London, after that Mayor came in. They probably don’t report most bashings and assaults that happen to non-Muslims any more, unless it’s particularly atrocious – ’95 year old woman bashed in the head as she left grocery’ type, and the news will very carefully avoid describing the perps if they are of Middle Eastern or African appearance, and if they do describe it, say ‘Asian’ instead, smudging the description and effectively ensuring that the perp will not be caught, given the vast range of ethnic descriptions they’ve shoved into there.

                1. One county near us has a district attorney who tries to refuse to prosecute hispanic perps. Every once in a while she has to, but it’s like pulling teeth.

                  On the other side of the Cascades, our DA is happy to throw the book at anybody who needs it. She was appointed by Despicable Kate Brown, but somehow, we got a winner. She’s seen an election and won already.

                    1. Prosecutorial discretion is basically absolute. After all, who’s going to call the prosecutor to account, and what’s to prevent it just shifting to that person?

                    2. It’s an elected position, so if the voters (“bring out your dead!”) go along with it, and there isn’t actionable corruption (“I see nothing!”), it’ll keep happening.

                      OTOH, in the mentioned case, local news has been pointing out the problems. We’ll have to see if she get re-elected.

                    3. Sure, vote them out….. if you’re still naive enough to believe we have anything resembling honest elections.

                      And this is in frigging TEXAS, where the governor and AG are actively prosecuting voter fraud. Now just imagine what goes on in CA, NY, Chicago…..

            2. Last weekend 500+ feral teens went wilding along the Magnificent Mile in downtown Chicago. The cops arrested 25-30 of them, but due to orders from the top and the statement from the Crook County state’s Attorney (Crimesha Foxx) that none of them will be charged with crimes – shoplifting, mugging, etc, all they could do was give them a ride back to their disfunctiona “homes”.

          4. No. Your news (and ours) strive to give that impression. We have SOME violent cities. But I lived in a large city and frequently left the purse in the car (because I have no brain) and the door unlocked all night, and never had an issue.
            Now, in Denver… I try not to do that. I still often forget to lock the car.
            I’ve heard Portugal described as relatively safe, but dear Lord, it looks and feels like a war zone to me, and mom lives in a wealthy suburb.

            1. amazes me people can still quesion that even after the home office admitted to cookin the books on crime stats.

          5. Last I read the average murder victim in the U.S. had somewhere around six felony /convictions/, and the average murderer had nine. Most of it’s gang related. So long as you’re outside the inner city areas, you’re likely much safer in the U.S., as well as most likely having the ability to use more than harsh language in your defense.

    3. First, the attacker can’t see your feet. That’s a big advantage. Second, you can hide a katana and a machine gun under that thing. [watching too much anime.]

      The underlined is impossible. 😀

      1. …or perhaps I got the tag wrong for underlining text or it doesn’t work on WordPress comments. The part in brackets is impossible. 😀

    4. The ferals are doing the same to Chicago right now. Last week they had a mob of 500+ teens wiilding through the Magnificent Mile in Downtown and all the cops were allowed to do with the 25-30 they arrested was give them a ride home. Crimesha Foxx had already told them that her office would not prosecute “kids” for any crimes.

  13. Can’t remember the exact words I read a while back, I think it was “You will get more of the behavior you allow.” Which in the case of a bunch of these idiots cities means more homeless crapping on the sidewalks and in business entries, more drug addicts, and more crime.

    The idiots behind allowing this(because ‘compassion and tolerance’) preen in their Demonstrated Virtue(they mostly live in places with security so the druggies and crappers don’t get to their sidewalk/entry/garage) and announce “We just need more money to take care of these people.” And businesses and individuals hit their tolerance level and leave. Which means a smaller tax base, and higher taxes, which drive more people out, in part because they’re sick of the idiots telling them the owe more of what they work for to the city so the idiots can do more of the Good Works that’re driving people out…

    At this point I really can’t tell if they truly don’t realize what damage they’re doing, or just don’t care. They’re not feral themselves(though not nearly far enough from it) but they encourage them.

    1. “At this point I really can’t tell if they truly don’t realize what damage they’re doing, or just don’t care.”

      Its deliberate. They’re doing it on purpose.

      My belief is that they’ve found a way to profit from destroying a city. It’s a race to see which cracks first, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco or LA.

      1. Figures I’ve seen from Seattle and Portland are that about $100k is spent per homeless person per year. That’s a nice salary for a lot of social workers. Vested interest, paid for by your tax dollars.

        Return social services to the voluntary and the Church (want dinner? then do a day’s work in the monastery garden) and the problem would largely solve itself.

        1. Some of that social work is through a church group.

          I made the mistake of doing a “buy the homeless a thanksgiving dinner” thing one year, and it took five years before they stopped sending me beggars’ boards every month.

          1. No, I can’t remember the name, I want to say Union Gospel something mission, but that is quite possibly a misremembering.

  14. yeah, i’ve watched feral types size up my roomate and his wife before, and then see that i am with them and have a sudden change in their target selection protocol…

            1. Same reason the majority of self-defense gun uses don’t involve a shot being fired: they’re looking for a victim, not a fight.

          1. Which may be why I get fewer problems with random poorly trained folk (in her case usually guys) than my co-worker. She’s tiny and has internalized the walled in ‘nothing to see here’ look. I’m not a small woman and I’m usually moving with a purpose and paying attention to my surroundings. I tend to have low incidents with the weird and the dangerous.

            Now there’s another thing that just occurred to me. Apparently it’s a NW coastal thing to do the wall into yourself and present as small a target as possible (that’s how it reads to me, she calls it ‘staying out of the way’). They’ve trained their people to act like targets.

            1. It’s what modern feminism does, too. Might well be connected. There’s a whole lot of teaching people to adopt prey behaviors, though, and it’s too widespread not to be deliberate.

            2. Apparently it’s a NW coastal thing to do the wall into yourself and present as small a target as possible (that’s how it reads to me, she calls it ‘staying out of the way’). They’ve trained their people to act like targets.

              Some of it is cultural. I was told that I didn’t move or stand like a Filipina, and my body language was ‘too confident’, too ‘American’ (whatever the hell that even meant); and after a while I parsed that I was basically acting too masculine and it translated to social challenges / rubbed people the wrong way. I don’t give off the mahinhin vibe, which translates to ‘modest’ but has overtones of being soft, gentle, sweet, meek and shy. My youngest sis-in-law is meek-sounding and shy, but there’s a steel spine under the shy-sounding voice and feminine behaviour, and that takes people who think her as easy to order around by surprise. But at the same time I’ve seen people, both male and female, do exactly what you described above, and even to me it screams ‘prey’, ‘victim’.

              But I basically move with a purpose and stand as if I’m alert and intent. Unfortunately, the confident body language made people want to pick fights with me, which they then proceeded to regret (and cry about to whoever their perceived superiors were, such as teacher) because my small size + gender is their first impression, the non-prey body language second, and then it’s ‘must beat this uppity woman so she knows her place/must break her.’


            3. Best self defense lesson I ever got was from my mother–and it wasn’t the taekwondo (though she enrolled me in that, too). Basically, it was “Don’t walk like a victim.” Head up, eyes scanning the surrounding areas, shoulders back, confident stride.

              Yes, it helps that I’m very tall for a woman, with a serious case of Resting Bitch Face and vivid red hair (I swear the idea that redheads Are Scary is genetically encoded?), but I also don’t walk in any way like a target. I’ve seen the same tactics work for women much, much smaller and slighter than me. If you look like you might put up a fight, you are much less likely to be targeted. The only two times I got groped in a foreign country was in the middle of a crowd and it was in passing–so they could be well away before I could react. The only time I’ve ever been groped here in the states was when I was a teenager–and it was a stupid teenage boy doing a grab-and-run while I was standing still (and before I’d started the martial arts). I did encounter a feral in Eastern Europe who was grabby…towards my much smaller companion at the time, who was trying to do the ‘shrink and be invisible’ thing. I punched the guy and screamed at him…after that, I think she decided my tactics were a better approach, heh.

              And I do actually have at least a tentative plan to kill people I meet (unless I know them). Or at least severely disable them. It’s generally nothing more than very vague “if that then this”, but I do suspect it would translate to body language that ferals would pick up on. “Touch me and die”, basically.

              (Now I just need to learn how to shoot…)

      1. . Shifty glances, weird bent over stance, weird slow walk, it isn’t subtle.

        Well, that was creepy.
        I suddenly SAW the difference between a coyote (the cows will ignore) and a feral dog, or wolf, or whateverthefreakthatisthatlookslikeacoyotebutisn’tmovignright where the cows, the cowboys, and little bitty me are all going “stomp a mud hole in it NOW.”

        You NAILED the “hunting something bigger than a mouse or rabbit” movement.

      2. Most self-defense courses describe the “attack dance”; the very common set of behaviors exhibited by people sizing up a potential victim and preparing to attack.

        That’s fine as far as it goes, but the crazies don’t behave like that. They’re usually just zoned out until the slot machine in their heads come up cherries, and then they do the first thing that comes to mind.

        1. This is why we don’t let them inside the 10 yard Zone of Death. They’re not magic, they have to move the same as everybody else.

          For the perpetually aggrieved and ignorant, and the speshul cases like Bonnie McDaniel, ten yards is how far away a human has to be for you to get your gun/sword/knife out if they rush you. Yep. 30 feet, minimum survivable distance. Like a grenade, really.

          They know it too. I have never seen a “crazy” go off at more than 30 feet. Usually under 5 feet, and always on somebody smaller than they are. Crazy usually does not mean random.

    1. Had that happen once. Gang banger thought he’d go after my wife, then he saw me. The wheels: (two in the chest, one in the head; it’s a safe angle to shoot) and my smile scared him off.

      1. Eh. walking downtown just at the edge of dark with older son. Guy tries to intimidate us. Steps too close, talks about blood and what he’s going to do to us, etc.
        Son turns around and says int he calmest voice I’ve ever heard “I can find your spleen have it out in seconds. I know how to it. I’ve done it before. Once it’s out, you’re dead. No one can save you. Not enough time.”
        Keep in mind he did not tell him he’d done this in autopsies. (First year. Cadaver lab. Visiting us on weekend) Guy turned and headed away very fast, like he thought we’d chase him. 😀

        1. Robert honors his namesake very well indeed.
          RAH once did a shopping list of those abilities an adult human ought to have a familiarity with. Alluded to in that list is the ability and willingness to assume the role of alpha predator when needs must.
          That feral never stood a chance and damn well knew it the moment Robert spoke.

        2. The spleen was a nice touch. Adds that “crazy eyes” feeling of verisimilitude, plus the seldom-used word for an organ that sounds strange and scary.

  15. Feral “humans” – another excellent reason to carry – whether the state approves of you doing so or not…

  16. The reason why a lot of malls are failing isn’t because customers don’t like going to malls. They do- unless there’s a large number of feral humans in the mall ready to cause trouble over any excuse. Having to constantly watch your surroundings for danger signs makes a mall visit less pleasant.

    I like water parks. There’s a water park in nearby city we went to – once. My daughter was young. There is no good explanation you can give to a child as to why they’re not tall enough to go down the water slide while other shorter kids of a different skin color are…. Any kid with a modicum of intelligence figures it out on their own.

    I remember Heinlein pointing it out in Starship Troopers. It is immensely cruel to allow someone to ignore all societal rules until they hit the magic age of 18- then suddenly hold them accountable for the first time in their lives. Learned behavior doesn’t change on a dime.

      1. Despite his best efforts that movie has provided the watchword for the forces of civilization trying to take back England.

        Would you like to know more?

          1. (since it is impossible to tell where the joke ends and the seriousness ends……)

            Basically, Sargon finally released his The Politics of Starship Troopers video about six months ago, utterly demolishing the ST == Nazi position.

            He also gives it a Petersonian grounding.

            Since then he and others have joined UKIP, and the ending statement for videos even from the leaders has been Service Guarantees Citizenship.

            When people say that the left can’t meme it understates the sheer extent to which they are outclassed by their opponents.

    1. Salem mall in Dayton, nicer mall than the Dayton mall, but they allowed themselves to become the place where the feral kids go to hangout after school without supervision. Increase in crime drove most of the stores out of the mall, and it finally closed after being dead for a number of years.

      1. It was also on the wrong side of town, in a neighborhood that kept going downhill. But yes, they might have been able to stay open longer if they had been more picky.

  17. *mad laughter*

    They called me insane when I first articulated thoughts related to this. One, on the basis of his wife’s work with the mentally ill, asked me never again to discuss with him such issues.

    A great many will regret it if reality convinces the likes of Sarah Hoyt that I was originally correct. Perhaps including me, as one of my original forecasts included a loss of tolerance for people as far outside American behavioral norms as I am.

    1. Getting the Normies riled up is never a good idea, Bob. That’s why I have a blog. In the hopes that nipping this kind of thing in the bud will keep the Normies fat, happy and stupid like they’re supposed to be.

      When Normies start ignoring things like gun laws, police and the courts and begin dealing out frontier justice to the ferals, that’s when it all really hits the fan. They are liable to get there in Seattle and Portlandia this year. Like June, when the shit on the street starts to -stink-.

      We don’t want that.

      So rather than propose hanging as a punishment for crapping on the sidewalk, we should try to steer the conversation more towards less radical measures. Then maybe I won’t find myself on the side of a hill in the rain with a gun and a spotting scope, hunting zombies.

      I hate being out in the rain.

      1. And TPTB in Oregon keep trying to impose gun laws that they (should) know will be ignored by 95% of the people.

        Sometimes, I figure that they intend for the compliance rate to be so low, so they can claim “reasonable suspicion” at anybody known to have a firearm, like a CCW holder. (I’m wondering if we are going to get the 2nd Amendment sanctuary county movement in response.)

        1. “I’m wondering if we are going to get the 2nd Amendment sanctuary county movement in response.”

          Nope. What you’re going to get is Jamaica. Widespread police corruption combined with a total gun ban. Everybody has a gun, nobody knows how to use one because they can’t practice and there are no lessons. Oh, and rampant criminality. The worst of all possible worlds.

          1. Umm. To be fair. There are lots of places to practice in Oregon. Not good for the trees. Heck, I’ve fired a gun since I was old enough to sit on dad’s lap and pull the trigger as he held the gun. Wasn’t at a range. We don’t have that option anymore, that property is gone; besides mom got rid of/sold the guns when dad died … But are plenty of remote places where people do this. Not even remotely legal. They do it anyway.

              1. “own backyard” – which is what we did until dad’s stroke. Property was sold long after that. My Uncle may still have used his folks property after that. Not neighborhood type property. It is illegal to fire a firearm where we live, even into a stump or ground in your backyard. We are not city (yet*), county.

                But the “illegal” part I was describing is national forest. Not sure how legal that is. We’ve never done it. But I know it is done. Seen signs (not completely cleaned up.) Loggers hate it.

                * Eugene has been working on incorporating property in our area for over 55 years, that I know of. Any new builds are immediately city. Rebuilds or major add on to existing buildings are not. Major difference, of City VS County home, standard neighborhood lot? 180% increase in property taxes (at minimum) … and you qualify for a “free” Eugene Library Card, VS paying for $80 per household.

                1. i think national forests are ok, and count as BLM land, while national parks are trouble

                  1. National Forests and BLM, etc., hunting, definitely legal; National Park system (including wilderness type monuments) not legal. Setting up ad hoc shooting ranges? Definitely frowned on.

              2. Of the 4 next-door neighbors we’ve had, 3 did regular shooting on their property. Only one had enough land to legally hunt, but shooting ground squirrels (AKA “squeakers”) isn’t considered hunting. With changes in neighbors, it’s down to one, but his varmint rifle is quite loud.

                Our border collie goes bananas when loud firearms go off nearby, though as she’s gotten older, she’s figured out that duck hunters a half mile or more away aren’t a threat.

                I can’t convince myself to pay for the permit for a noise suppressor, but if they get formally delisted, I’d get the 10-22 set up for one. Squeaker holes (and those from other, bigger critters) can be dangerous.

                There’s a meadow a few miles from us where it’s common to shoot. OTOH, it has a lot of rattlesnakes in it, (Protip: if it’s called “Rattlesnake Meadow” on the map, it probably really has some.), so I’m wary. Also, the FS road to it sucks big time.

                  1. Sounds more like a good place to target practice with pistol shot loads.
                    “Got him.”
                    “Two on your left.”
                    “Hey, two with one shot? That’s cheating!”
                    “Nah. I’m just a practicing conservative.”

          2. Yep. They don’t HAVE to door to door and confiscate; you won’t dare use it on the Democrats street militia anyway.

        2. I’ve read that a number of western Washington sheriffs have said they approve of armed citizens. I expect western Oregon sheriff’s do, too.

          1. Note: It’s usually the counties east of the coastal ones. In Oregon, the dividing line is the Cascades. I can’t speak to the situation in Medford or Eugene, but a couple of sherrifs ago, he was encouraging those who could legally do so to get concealed carry permits. Klamath County, just east of the Cascades.

            1. CCP is being strongly suggested west of the Cascades too. Eugene Police aren’t as forwardly vocal due to their major. But county sheriff isn’t shy. CCP gives the appearance of respectability and vetting. After all you must take a class, pass the test, have it signed off, and turn in paperwork. Never mind the class test can be passed by anyone with any gun safety and sense. We need to take the class. Hubby did, but he never turned in the paperwork. Technically if he has one I don’t. But if there might be concealed weapon in the vehicle, even if I’m not carrying it, would prefer to be safe than sorry and have the CCP. Our next trip is to Canada. CCP, or not, can’t carry across the border. Should get it done anyway.

        3. Also it makes crime rates look lower by making people afraid to call the cops if they used a gun.

      2. There’s a point, potentially before everything goes to vigilantism, where people would be open to implementing limited mass murder schemes in a lawful way. I’m monster enough to be interested in that point, even if I can work out the stupidity, impracticality, and that I’m lacking in the skills and life choices to make it happen. (I also have enough discipline, and enough awareness of the flaws of my thinking that I want to persuade a working majority that I’m correct, and otherwise forget about it. I’m not going to start just because I’m impatient with waiting. Because maybe I’m just insane on that question, need to accept that people disagree, and apply self control.)

        1. Of course if you have a community band several people together into a posse to patrol and enforce the peace; but not through the community’s formal government and law enforcement, they’re still considered vigilantes. Which could happen when a significant percentage of the population loses trust with the police and their government, but don’t have the voting numbers to remove them, and decide to take matters into their own hands out of pure self protection.

          I suppose theoretically, you could have 3 competing groups: the original law enforcement officers (possibly with local, state, and federal all at odds with one another), military in martial law mode, and self-organized militia. Gah! What a cluster f* that would be.

        2. “…where people would be open to implementing limited mass murder schemes in a lawful way.”

          Sure there is. Germany, Russia, Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, currently Syria, Libya… Its a very common impulse. Kill them all, let God sort them out. Its done all the time.

          The way to proceed is to ask yourself this question: what do I want out of this?

          Next question: Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, North Vietnam, Communist Cambodia, Soviet Russia etc. did those guys get what they wanted?

          No, they profoundly didn’t. They’re all frigging well dead, every single one. Its a stupid idea that doesn’t work.

          That’s how you defeat evil. Carry on.

              1. Dehousing.

                It does when the job lots of ‘civilians’ are your enemy’s ability to wage war.

                The future of war will be the flipside of our ability to sustain peace.

                And I think I’d best make myself scarce for a few days. See if I recover some sanity or gain a firmer grip on the ladder of my humanity.

      3. “When Normies start ignoring things like gun laws, police and the courts and begin dealing out frontier justice to the ferals, that’s when it all really hits the fan.”
        I would argue that the excrement has already hit the air pusher before that point. What you want is then irrelevant; because now you a have basic existential problem, bottom two levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, survival and safety.

  18. Some of us, while not ourselves feral, only follow social norms out of courtesy. The difference between a smiling happy go lucky grandpa and their worst nightmare is just a question of who they decide to target.

      1. Then there are the no-fuse people. We just GO and there’s no warning. Generally the same people moving purposefully at an accident scene, so it does have its positive side.

        If friggin’ Leftie idiots knew how hard it is to keep something like that from getting off the leash, how many years of training it took, they’d pee their pants and hide.

        1. The question is how long from the very first rather minor event that COULD have been trigger until things go? Does it take ONLY that, or more, or quite a bit? It’s not JUST the indication that the fuse is burning.

          I do not know HOW nasty I might be – it’s never come to that. I might run away like a terrified dog, tail between legs.. or I might go full-on berserker. Or anywhere in between. What I suspect, and sort of fear, is the stone cold, “Alright, if this, then that” that has a certain brutal efficiency to it – without any grand Indication. The sort of thing where one “takes a walk” and returns nonchalantly… only the county (or much of it) is blacked out after that little walk. And hard-to-replace items are smoking heaps. That sort of thing.

          I make no claim as to what might/will happen. All I know is that there are many people in whose way I prefer NOT to get. Yes, you are in that group, even if it is extremely unlikely we might ever meet.

          1. America is, hopefully not was, partly a result of people’s business being essentially uncoupled from one another’s.

            When that is the case, it is very easy, relatively speaking, to avoid getting in someone else’s way, and it becomes a lot more practical to peacefully coexist with a lot of seriously scary @#^^$@&#%.

            Entitlement spending basically couples the business of very many people together, in ways that could not have been anticipated. The current intensity of the immigration issue is significantly because of the coupling of businesses of everyone in the nation. People have a strong desire to control the risks caused by those they are associated with.

          2. I think there’s a distinct difference in the kinds of violence perpetrated by groups of people such as Ferguson, Mo, Berkeley Ca., and going Death Wish on indiscriminate occupiers. Ferguson blew up because there was an institutionalized robbery of the poor, never mind that the trigger was the rightful killing of a violent criminal. he only “violence” from conservatives would be those protecting their homes or businesses from indiscriminate breakage or burning. Berkeley violence was totally uncalled for, perpetrated by the lefties against anyone perceived to be conservative and labeled as haters merely because of that. Conservatives would have been justified in use of lethal force; but it didn’t happen. Gunning down occupiers certainly makes sense if you had a child contract HIV/Aids from discarded drug needles on the sidewalk or park. That would be an understandable trigger, especially if you had a town meeting, with a large group of people demanding action, and the local government and police ignored the communities concerns. Ditto if typhus or plague were to break out in your neighborhood because of poor sanitation practices.

    1. This. I have some faint inklings of what I am capable of doing if pushed. I try to avoid situations where I might end up at that point. The acceleration from “seriously angry” to ‘the Morrigan” is short but spectacular.

  19. Oddly enough, I just came back from the laundry mat.

    Yes, I deliberately went late (for me!) at night, so I could get one of the eighty pound machines without having to drag the kids.
    They have a desk kid, so it’s not like it’d ever be deserted…or only mostly deserted.
    Still, I almost turned right back around when I walked in and smelled human urine. The only reason I didn’t is that I could tell roughly where it was coming from (eventually narrowed it down) and that group included a normal-bratty little kid, a well-groomed by not too neatly groomed little girl and an obvious young grandmother. I could also see a couple of college girls, and a guy that from the outfits he was folding is a mechanic at a decent shop.

    Ferals don’t take grandma out for random feralness.

    (Ended up being the very-obviously-medical-issue fat dude wearing whatever would fit on him, but the mental shortcut is useful: if you smell fresh human wiz in an unexpected area, LEAVE.)

      1. Manhattan, yeah. That’s the only place on Earth I’ve ever been physically accosted by a panhandler. He backed off when I turned and looked at him. Sorry buddy, wrong Canadian.

        Drugs can be a pretty wonderful thing sometimes, I guess.

      2. Oddly, I have been to Manhattan – twice. And not had that experience. The first time it did seem like trash pickup was overdue, granted. And it helps to have a “native guide” in such wild. uncivilized areas. The backwoods with black bears is MUCH easier dealt with.

        1. Knowing where not to go is possibly more important than knowing where to go in most areas, especially cities. In my rural area I’m not aware of any no-go zones. That’s apparently not true of all rural areas. Like in the pot growing regions of the Peoples Republic of California.

          1. One Bar-Fly (Kevin Creek?) talked about moon-shiners using a bullroarer to warn people away from their stills. 😉

          2. August 2010 we went to high country Yosemite for two weeks coming in from the NE entrance through Tioga (Hetch Hetchy Entrance). We took the highway E over the South flank of Shasta. Our English Toy Spaniel indicated she needed a rest stop so we pulled over. Note, we were 40′ long X 8′ wide (Truck/TT combo). Needed relatively flat safe safe, not too much under story brush, area, to take her out on a long line. She really needed the break by the time we found a “safe” spot. Note, not only because of the physical requirements but because …

            We were there about 5, maybe 10 minutes, when a State trouper pulled up behind us flashing lights (no sirens). Approached hubby with his hand on his gun. Relaxed once he’d ran our id’s (mine was in the truck), and the vehicle. Stayed until we were ready to move on, warning us it wasn’t Safe to Stop Anywhere on the highway. He allowed we’d picked a likely safe place (visibility, etc.).

            Do not know if legalization has made forests safer now that it can be grown “out in the open” (regardless of state in question: CA, WA, OR, or CO.)

              1. Yes. Thus “don’t know.” Either it is better “because legal.” Or it is worse because “the heavy tax.” Now that states surrounding are on board with legalization, where export to is financially enticing. The grow to smuggle out of state seems to abated, but don’t know about that for sure, either.

                1. The big problem is that most of the danger is from folks walking in to hidden grows and never walking out– and I know they had at least two really big busts on the national forest where they’re pretty sure it was cartels, after legalization.

                  How can you tell if it was the wolves they introduced (which treed a college researcher in the last year or so), the drugged up homeless, or the cartel grows that made someone who was last seen heading to gas up before a trip to the forest never be seen again.

    1. This is the reason nobody goes to “Downtown” Hamilton anymore. Too many soft-shells pissing on the sidewalk. The businesses all gave up and moved away.

      And in case any of the Perpetually Aggrieved Left think I’m talking code for black people here, these are all WHITE soft-shells I’m talking about, okay? This is Canada. Until about 10 years ago all the f*cked-up crazy street people were white. Majority still are, unless you go to the Jane/Finch area of Toronto. That’s where the Jamaican burnouts all decided was their turf.

  20. In his regular Friday column ( https://www.nationalreview.com/g-file/whats-so-great-about-western-civilization/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=190419_G-File&utm_term=GFile-Smart ) Jonah Goldberg touched on this … last Friday, in fact. His general musings were on “civilization” as such, and Western Civilization in particular.

    He noted that every generation decries the assault by the barbarians as things change around them, and then he noted also that this is perfectly natural: “we call them children” (words to that effect, but the quoted words are his). And he is absolutely correct–and so are you. Left to their own devices and not brought up to recognize the manners that civilization (by definition) requires, children will be feral … barbarians.

    Likewise, as you’ve noted, this can happen in reverse with nominal adults as they revert back to a “natural” state and forget the manners that allowed them to reach adulthood in the first place. It is scary to see how quickly that reversion can become. Maybe scarier to see the process actually abetted by those who should be defending against it.

  21. I once knew a guy NAMED Feral. Nice kid. Mentally retarded (not sure about the details, but he did ok, he was just slow and didn’t understand more advanced topics). He lived with his wife who was Autistic (I think. She could hear some popular music and tell you everything. Writer, performer, when it hit the charts and how far it got, the date it first played on American Bandstand, the works. But day-to-day stuff was hard for her.) The story goes, the two of them escaped from a facility together, got married, and got a lawyer to fight in court for their right to live together, in their own place. Neither liked to talk about it. I think they were afraid someone might see a flaw in the lawyers argument and send them back.

    Sorry, off topic. But whenever someone talks about Feral humans, those two always come to mind. Kinda wish I knew what happened to them (an Ex kept track of them and helped them when she could, so pretty much SHE got them in the breakup. Which is probably for the best. She helped them more than I would have been able to.)

      1. We have them here too. (Wyoming) Much better prices and service than Amerigas, which ran themselves out of business by taking the concept of ‘only game in town’ and running away with it. (You might say they went feral. 😉 )

  22. “The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the beginning…”

    And one can substitute ‘civilization’ for ‘God’ and it remains perfectly true.

  23. One company that I worked at for quite a while leased a large office in part of a larger building. There were no restrooms within the office itself, but the appropriate facilities were available just a short walk down the interior hallway of the building, marked and segregated for each sex.

    Curiously, the Ladies’ Room had a locked door, while the door to the Mens’ Room was unlocked. There was initially some puzzlement over this arrangement, but it wasn’t long before the reasoning for it came out. While the building had security guards who regularly patrolled the shared areas (it wasn’t big enough to have a front desk), it was typically open during the daytime with multiple ways in. This was more convenient for the people working in the various offices (most of which were quite small). But it also created the possibility of outside people coming into the hallways. And there was concern about the possibility of an outside male taking advantage of the situation to follow a woman into the restroom.

    Whenever the female employees commented on the additional hassle that the locked bathroom door created, this reasoning was pointed out to them. And they all agreed that it was a valid cause for concern.

    1. A large corporation in Portland over 30 years ago everyone, even visitors (which I was one) had to have door badges to open any door on any floor even the bathrooms. They had multiple gatekeepers.

      Ran into again with a job interview I had, in ’03. Turns out it was a government agency. Before the job interview was completed, decided it wasn’t going to be a good fit, especially on top of requiring a move.

  24. My brother lives in Manhattan. My sister lives in north of Manhattan and her husband works in Manhattan. I agree about things to do to Manhattan, but I
    worry about my relatives.

        1. oddly, that makes perfect sense to me.

          But then, I’m the guy who thinks tequila tastes like water squeezed from dusty old cardboard boxes, sourced from a rat infested warehouse and soaked for months on end (to make sure to express all that rat pee flavor), and then fermented and distilled. So yea… My taste buds are imaginative too. 🙂

  25. I had an experience like that “feral man” one, following me when I was walking my dog early one morning. I’m not normally nervous about walking in lonely places, or about encountering strange men, but there was just something… not right about his manner, his posture, the way he seemed to be loitering to see which way I went, then following. I tried to rationalise it by telling myself he probably just happened to be going the same direction as me. So I turned off the main path and headed into the woods (I know, too stupid to live…) and he continued to follow me. I remember looking over my shoulder, and seeing him looking at me with exactly that blank, inhuman look.

    My dog felt it too (or picked up on my fear, maybe) because that was the first time in his life I’d known the gentle little soul to growl at anyone. That might have made him hesitate; either way, we managed to lose him and loop around back into a more populated area. No harm done, but in future I would trust my first instinct and turn back as soon as I felt something was not right.

      1. We have two dogs, frequently referred to as Small Large Dog and Large Large dog (80 and 120+ pounds respectively). Small Large is a guardian, but Large Large loves EVERYBODY and has done things like climb into a UPS truck and attempt to make friends with the driver.

        I was walking Large Large once and came close to a perfectly unexceptional man on the sidewalk. The dog sideeyed him and circled around to keep me between himself and Mr. Unexceptional (he is Large, not Protective).

        I gave him a very, very wide berth.

      2. Yes. Must trust the dog.

        Ran into something similar. Stopped at mini-mall for a quick subway. Had already loaded and seat belted in my dog. Had just gotten in my seat and reached to close the door when she growled. Didn’t look around, just closed the door, immediately, and locked it. Surprised the heck out of me. She NEVER growls. It was a very low quiet growl, didn’t carry much further than me. Not only that, but she is trained to ignore other people, period. She’s a service dog for medical alert. When I saw why she growled. I figured “Okay, then. New medical alert.” Guy was probably harmless, maybe. But he approached me, a lone female, for panhandling, in the parking lot. A huge no-no-NO. Even in Eugene.

        Also ran into it with a GSD, over 40 years ago. She all but nailed someone I worked with, someone she knew, I stopped her in time (was not at work.) The next work day told my supervisors about what happened and I was not comfortable being paired (alone) with individual. Not warehouse, but in the middle of nowhere. About 2 weeks later the person went majorly off the rails and left the area. Tried to get me to go with, through a major sob story … I was young, not stupid.

    1. You headed into the woods out of an instinct to get under some cover, and be able to make tracks without having your backtrail seen. It just was not the right instinct for the situation. But you got out okay, so it was not totally wrong, either. Do not beat yourself up for not being perfect.

      But sometimes, turning and going straight back is not the right instinct, either. Sometimes women get rushed as they are getting back into their own territory (house, car, etc.). So you have to adjust to circumstances.

      Your dog did good.

      1. A tactic I was taught:
        Act like your phone just buzzed you.

        Answer it, loudly say “WHAT? I’m just at (location), I’m not supposed to be back for at least another– oh, all right, I’m coming. You guys start driving and pick me up, though, we’ll go.”

        Or whatever will work similarly to give them the impression that people are coming.

        it also makes it so you’re not retreating, which can trigger an attack.

        1. Something I’ve notices about the “busy place” thing is that times have changed. In the “old days,” like the 1980s, if a woman or a kid was being roughed up somebody would step in to deal with it.

          Now they whip out a cell phone and make a video.

          1. Not actually a bad idea if you don’t have the physical ability to threaten the attacker successfully.

            Most people don’t want to go to jail, so they run when you start taping.

  26. Growing up on a small farm, feral dogs were a big problem. They were dangerous to both the livestock, and occasionally the humans on the farm. They were (one of the) the main reason(s) our little farm had firearms.

    Now I live in the city. The feral cats are annoying, but not much of a physical danger. The feral humans are another story. I’ve seen them in and around my neighborhood, and I’ve had them walk up to me at the gas station and demand money.

    There are people who claim that neither the feral dogs then, nor the feral humans now are any danger. Those people are the same people who want to confiscate guns. No, I’ll keep mine, thanks.

    1. There are people who claim that neither the feral dogs then, nor the feral humans now are any danger. Those people are the same people who want to confiscate guns. No, I’ll keep mine, thanks.

      A toxoplasmosis by any other name…

  27. I’ve had those feelings of “don’t go there” or “don’t walk by that person.” I’ve always heeded them and have never been attacked. During the same time period, some of the college girls would be followed and some of them raped. I wasn’t one of them.

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