Never Give In

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I woke up late and have a million (and a half) things to do “right now” besides still being late on six short stories.

So, I figure this will give you something to discuss for the day:

“Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”
Winston Churchill, Never Give In!: The Best of Winston Churchill’s Speeches

103 responses to “Never Give In

  1. Best line ever stolen and repackaged for scifi.

    And there’s a LOT of competition!

  2. Never give up! Never surrender!
    However you package the conviction, following it will make life worthwhile to live, however short it may be.

  3. Never give up! Never surrender!

  4. The Left’s version, unfortunately, is “Never stop whining. Never, never, never. Whinge and drum your heels on the ground. Throw such an earsplitting snit that nobody else can get a word in edgewise, and if they try, scream that it’s unfair.”

    It’s beyond time they were taken behind the woodshed, and had the board of education applied to the seat of the problem.

    • As frequently as required. Which will be often. And, of course, we must never hesitate to use the cane. When in doubt, cane the lout.

    • nobody else can get a word in edgewise

      I used to listen to Hannity’s radio program, but his tolerance for that behavior from the progtards was too much. (Never watched his show; TV is $SPOUSE’s preferred news/commentary (particularly Tucker) medium.)

      I’ve pretty much given up on talk radio; I’m getting much more current stuff online, and when I’m near an AM radio, most of the time I’m also near my music collection. Sorry Rush, I’d rather hear Respighi.

    • I watched a black man, and a black woman and a woman of vague tan-ish skin hue and indeterminate ethnicity be horribly racist to someone from Guatamala, and get very upset at him because he didn’t share their POV.

      It was rather…facepalm inducing to say the least. Like woah.

    • You forgot “How dare you!”

  5. “In difficult ground, press on; In encircled ground, devise stratagems; In death ground, fight.” Sun Tsu.

    We are in death ground now, I do believe.

    • In death ground? Not yet, although we are in a target-rich environment.

      We, the great bulls of the herd, have finally taken notice of the comparative powerlessness of the yappy little dogs driving our kind into the pens, that is all. We’ve tried to alert the others of the herd to the relative powerlessness of those cures, kicked a few but stopped short of goring them.

      Thus far.

      • Must respectfully disagree sir.

        As far as social media goes, we are. No more devising strategems to trick our way back to freedom.

        This is death ground. If we don’t fight now, by 2021 there will be no conservative voices on any major platforms at all. Conservatism will be branded as hate speech and banned from publication. Anywhere.

        Today’s example:

        Today is Remembrance Day in the British Empire. On Remembrance Day, you wear a poppy. At 11AM, you observe a moment of silence. We are Canadians, this is one of the few things we agree on. You don’t mess with Remembrance Day.

        Don Cherry of Hockey Night in Canada fame dared speak about this, that he sees damn few poppies on immigrants in Toronto. He’s been a hockey broadcaster and personality on Canadian television since 1980, and he’s never been shy about telling it like it is.

        http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/11/10/forget-it-downtown-toronto-nobody-wears-a-poppy/

        On air he said that if people come to this country and enjoy the freedoms we have, then the least they can do is pony up a buck or two for a frickin’ poppy and WEAR it, for the honored dead. That was on Coach’s Corner on November 9th as part of their Remembrance Day special coverage.

        Today, November 11th, 2019 Don Cherry is fired from Hockey Night in Canada after nearly 40 years.

        So that’s how it is now. They can fire Don Cherry for saying what everyone is thinking. You’re a Canadian, you wear the poppy and you bloody well stand up straight when they play O Canada.

        Give it two more years, and the next guy who does that on TV will be charged with a hate crime.

        But the Prime Minister wearing blackface so many times he can’t remember them all is totally cool, okay?

        Sarah’s right. For freedom of speech, this is death ground. Fight.

        • BobtheRegisterredFool

          Normally I’d segue into my usual spiel. Not this, not today.

          *Looks up lyrics to O, Canada*

          ‘We see thee rise’. Yeah, that is going on the list, and I’ve made a note with it.

          • Oh. Go learn the French version.

            Car ton bras sait porter l’epee, il sait porter la croix!

            • Went and looked at the French version. Line you quote is (roughly, with help from Google) “Because Your arm can wield a sword it knows how to carry the Cross”. Far better than the lame English version. That’s a National anthem. We should use the 4th verse of the Star Spangled Banner.

              Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
              Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
              Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land
              Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
              Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
              And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”
              And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
              O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

              Maybe we can get the Hoi Polloi singing those two anthems to trigger the SJW’s at hockey games. All we need now is a tune for the Star Spangled banner that mere mortals can sing…

              • Throw in the Marseilles whenever congress -critters are present and you have a deal!

              • We should use the 4th verse of the Star Spangled Banner.
                Oh, I do. But also the 3rd verse:
                And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
                That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
                A home and a country, should leave us no more?
                Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
                No refuge could save the hireling and slave
                From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
                And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
                O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

                As to the tune – it’s a BAR SONG. Everyone should be able to sing it. Don’t let the divas who are more interested in showing of how well they sing stop you from singing it properly – from the gut, as if drunk on freedom.

                • Indeed the original tune is “To Anacreon in Heaven” Or the Anacreontic song. It is a drinking song, but not really a bar song per se (details here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Anacreon_in_Heaven). The group that sang it was essentially a collection of good amateur and professional singers who gathered for singing, drink, food and whatever other festivities they could find. It has a range of an octave and a fifth (From low C to G above high C in the key of C). Most amateur singers have this range (barely not necessarily in that key ) but not most folk just off the street. Start it acapella in the wrong key and you’ll soon find yourself in trouble.

                  The original words have this:
                  And, besides I’ll instruct you, like me, to intwine
                  “The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus’s Vine.”
                  The song alludes to drinking and other pleasant activities which I shall leave to this groups fertile imagination 🙂

        • It’s not death ground. It’s temporary comma ground. But bad enough.

  6. I’m glad Winston included the “honour and good sense” caveat, because it allows one to also believe my single favourite — actually my only favourite — line from Oliver Cromwell: “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.”

    “Never give up” I can respect as a stance. “Never admit you might be wrong” I can’t.

    • There’s another Cromwell quote that comes to mind whenever I see news of the Dem Congressional leadership:

      “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately … Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

      • Or the current British parliament, for that matter.

        • What I’m reading indicates that the British, at any rate, are about to repeat Cromwell’s exhortation…at the polls.

          • We live in hope.

            • We strain towards the Day when it will be revealed. The very creation groans and travails, awaiting the deliverance that has been promised– nay, that has been achieved.

          • The NY Sun offers a comment on Brexit that most here will appreciate:

            Brexit: What Would Patrick Henry Do?
            Europe, says our Brexit diarist, has received in Brussels the ‘insidious smile’ of which the Virginian warned.
            With the British general election having only just begun, it would be precipitate for champions of UK independence to bemoan, “Brexit, we hardly knew ye.” Yet as events continue to unfold, it is difficult to maintain the requisite “stiff upper lip” until December 12.

            One need look no further for ominous signs ahead than when Prime Minister Johnson went to Buckingham Palace last Wednesday to request the dropping of the writs. “I’ve just been to see Her Majesty the Queen,” Boris announced outside No 10, “and she agreed to dissolve Parliament for an election.”

            Yet a BBC reporter outside the Palace confidently told viewers that Mr. Johnson had gone “to inform” the Queen that Parliament was dissolved, as that’s how things are now done. First, the UK Supreme Court overruling the Queen’s prorogation of Parliament in September; and now, a member of the press assuring us that dissolution was no longer among her prerogative powers, either.

            So who does rule in the United Kingdom? This question is at the core of the election campaign, as at the heart of Brexit. Since Prime Minister Theresa May brought her Brexit legislation before the Commons a year ago, MPs have been hell-bent on frustrating the people’s will, expressed in the 2016 referendum, to leave the European Union. Boris Johnson called that June 23 Britain’s “Independence Day,” but in reality it’s been more John Dickinson than John Adams.

            America’s Founders pledged in their famous document “our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.” Like Mr. Dickinson who counselled that the time was not yet ripe for the colonies to separate from Britain, the Conservative government is falling back on a weak deal. As many Brexiteers revile it as revere it, as the answer to secession from the EU. …

  7. Ah, I hope this isn’t wildly out of line — different kind of persistence from the main topic —

    Regarding a previous conversation, I never did find a fertility specialist I was comfortable with… but we’re nevertheless at six weeks and counting and would be grateful for prayers from those here who pray.

  8. “Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards.”
    ― robert heinlein

  9. Having quoted that, Heinlein never had to wait for he next Sarah Hoyt novel, so I think he was simply malnourished.

  10. “Sir, do you know they’ve cut us off? We’re entirely surrounded.” “Those poor bastards,” Puller said. “They’ve got us right where we want ’em. We can shoot in every direction now.”
    ― Burke Davis, Marine!: The Life of Chesty Puller

    • And when the gloves do come off, may God have mercy on our souls for I fear no mercy may be given to those who oppose human rights.

      • Nor those who use cries of mercy to sink in a dagger.

        • Yeah, that’s the tactic they use that I hate the most. Bad enough to watch on video, if they ever do it to me in person I’ll be going to jail for sure.

          I really don’t think these people realize that striking after begging for mercy takes them outside all social norms and puts them in the mad-dog/assassin category.

          • Traditionally called “sins against charity.”

            Which I just recognized is literally “sins against the love of(from) God.”

            • Absolutely. It’s a crime against your Humanity, taking advantage of the urge to mercy and using it as a weapon. Evil.

              This is the type of thing that Mooselimbs are famous for doing on the battlefield. They give their wounded hand grenades, to see if they can take a medic with them.

              Its one of those stupid/smart moves that contemptuous idiots pull. They don’t understand that it takes them out of the “Human” category and puts them in the “vermin” category. That makes the difference between a war and an extermination campaign.

              Wars have rules. Extermination campaigns, the only rule is efficiency.

    • That was what immediately came to mind for me as well, but I couldn’t remember the source, and was waiting for my brain to run it’s own DogPile search. Thank you.

  11. Never give in — selling out is more lucrative.

    Albeit less honorable.

  12. Given there’s a picture of a badger my mind wandered to Trufflehunter from Prince Caspian and two quotes
    “I’m a beast, I am, and a Badger what’s more. We don’t change. We hold on.”
    and
    “The help will come,” said Trufflehunter. “I stand by Aslan. Have patience, like us beasts. The help will come. It may be even now at the door.”
    As you always point out dear hostess we should not despair :-). Just it is hard sometimes…

  13. One was posted up above, but I like this compilation:

  14. OT – but as today is Veteran’s Day, such as this are never off topic:

    Who Should Win the Nobel Peace Prize?


    Spoiler Alert: the answer is “The American Military”

    Who knew?

  15. The distinction between being graciously accommodating and giving in is illustrates, I think, by another famous SciFi quotation:

    “When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.”

    In a world where one can reasonably assume the good will of the opponent, it is best to find ways to accommodate their reasonable demands – which will be requests, if they are in fact reasonable. If your opponent is using your graciousness in order to weaken and destroy you – never give up, never surrender.

    • Which is precisely what the Left has done — and why they CANNOT be lived with.

    • The thing is, the SJW/ Intersectionalist Left is based entirely on the feelings of guilt they’re trying to instill in the public at large. Which works to a point, because most people hope that the whiny little scold will just go away and let them live in peace.
      It’s not fear that drives the compromise, but a wearied patience & hope.
      When it becomes clear that giving in and going along to one demand just leads to more demands, with more insults and more whiny unreasonableness, then people will stop feeling guilt, and this will be ended.

  16. Just because I am brain tired and physically tired from driving for four hours with a 30-50 MPH cross wind… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL6CDFn2i3I

    • Glad you survived. Your description reminds me of a van ride through Kansas years ago. (shudder)

      • I’ve done it before, but not going from bad to worse. I truly could not take my hands off the steering wheel because of the gusts.

        • Try it on a motorcycle!

          It wasn’t until one windy trip across the Panhandle that I understood why almost all the vegetation grew at a noticeable angle from the vertical.

          Though it was no fun on a bike, I felt sorry for some of the people pulling trailers. With the side winds, the center of pressure was often a long way from the axles…

        • This is why we’re monitoring the weather situation very carefully, in case we need to go home earlier or later than planned.

        • This is why we’re monitoring the weather situation very carefully, in case we need to go home earlier or later than planned.

    • Did that once in an RV up in North Dakota, it was close to (Bleep) the family reunion, I’m parking head on to this.

  17. BobtheRegisterredFool

    https://www.nationalchurchillmuseum.org/blood-toil-tears-and-sweat.html

    I beg to move,

    That this House welcomes the formation of a Government representing the united and inflexible resolve of the nation to prosecute the war with Germany to a victorious conclusion.

    On Friday evening last I received His Majesty’s Commission to form a new Administration. It as the evident wish and will of Parliament and the nation that this should be conceived on the broadest possible basis and that it should include all parties, both those who supported the late Government and also the parties of the Opposition. I have completed the most important part of this task. A War Cabinet has been formed of five Members, representing, with the Opposition Liberals, the unity of the nation. The three party Leaders have agreed to serve, either in the War Cabinet or in high executive office. The three Fighting Services have been filled. It was necessary that this should be done in one single day, on account of the extreme urgency and rigour of events. A number of other positions, key positions, were filled yesterday, and I am submitting a further list to His Majesty tonight. I hope to complete the appointment of the principal Ministers during tomorrow. The appointment of the other Ministers usually takes a little longer, but I trust that, when Parliament meets again, this part of my task will be completed, and that the administration will be complete in all respects.

    We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Let that be realised; no survival for the British Empire, no survival for all that the British Empire has stood for, no survival for the urge and impulse of the ages, that mankind will move forward towards its goal. But I take up my task with buoyancy and hope. I feel sure that our cause will not be suffered to fail among men. At this time I feel entitled to claim the aid of all, and I say, “Come then, let us go forward together with our united strength.”

    Earlier this Fall, I searched out speeches that could be spoken powerfully. Read the whole thing. It is succinct, can be printed on a single sheet of paper. Look at how profoundly it covers his strategic resolve, how efficiently it covers the necessary business.

    Compare also the Orations against Cataline. I don’t have the citations handy, but if you look through the complete works of Lincoln, there are something like three speeches that could be considered similar to this one. Civil wars are ugly and never clean.

    • My favorite story of Lincoln’s oratorical force is of the Gettysburg Address. The featured speaker of the occasion was one Edward Everett, who spoke for two hours, which wasn’t unusual for the era. Lincoln’s remarks were widely criticized both at home and abroad. Yet Everett wrote to Lincoln, “ I should be glad if I could flatter myself that I came as near to the central idea of the occasion, in two hours, as you did in two minutes.”

  18. E.B. Sledge, “With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa” has some pretty good quotes about war from close up on the front lines. Such as: “All who survived will remember the horror they’d rather forget. But they suffered and did their duty so a sheltered homeland can live in peace …”

  19. Christopher M. Chupik

    I’ve heard not one word of criticism from the Left about FB censoring people over this issue. Not one. Which is to be expected. Just remember this the next time you hear the Usual Suspects bleating about “creeping fascism”. They’re quite okay with it as long as it benefits them.

    • Did you see they fired Don cherry today? Check my comment above.

    • It’s creeping fascism they’re opposed to. Blatant unvarnished egregious fascism they’re for every time. Particularly when it benefits them. They are insufficiently imaginative to see how badly this can end up. A situation like Col. Kratman’s Caliphate is one of less offensive results.

      • No, they don’t like fascism, because it’s old-fashioned. Communism is the wave of the future, and they intend to ride it.

        • Perhaps you are correct 60guilders. Although I suspect whether autonomous collective or self perpetuating autocracy the Tranzi/SJW want one thing, POWER. They only respect it (if at all) and its users. It’s part of why this can’t end well. They’re the political equivalent of the WWII Japanese or the modern ISIS fighters. Their world view (particularly their eschatological view) is so delusional that they feel
          that they can’t lose. History is with them. So they need to be shown repeatedly and forcefully that that is nonsense. And even so many will never admit they were wrong. Even should reason be ultimately victorious we we’ll have the equivalent of the WWII Japanese soldier they fished out of somewhere in New Guinea in the 70s that only finally gave up with a message from the then still living Hirohito.
          Today I seem to be channeling Nikabrik not Trufflehunter…Back to centering on the badger point of view.

        • like there’s a big diff

    • The only reason why the Nazis didn’t call the Jews fascists was that the term was not yet the pejorative.

    • Which immediately and by itself unmasks them.

  20. The Memory Hole springs a leak:

    Politico undermines Politico‘s reporting on Ukraine’s 2016 pro-Hillary efforts

    Something weird is going on at Politico.

    The newsgroup reports that there is “no evidence” to support the idea that Ukraine worked hand-in-hand with the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign to torpedo then-GOP nominee Donald Trump.

    “According to Giuliani,” Politico notes, “Ukrainian officials conspired with the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee to help boost the Democratic nominee’s campaign and damage Trump’s candidacy. No evidence has emerged to support that idea [emphasis added].

    This comes as a bit of a surprise considering reporters Ken Vogel and David Stern reported for Politico in 2017 that “Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office.”

    Their article, titled “Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire,” claimed also that Ukrainian officials “disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers.”

    “Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton,” the article’s subhead reads.

    [SNIP]

    In other words, the 2019 Politico reports relies on the distinction between Kyiv operatives working directly with the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee versus what Stern and Vogel reported, which is that Kyiv officials relied on intermediaries to transmit allegedly damaging information about the then-GOP nominee. That is the thinnest of distinctions.

    I do not know what else to say but to second journalist Matt Taibbi, who writes that Politico undermining Politico‘s own reporting on Ukraine is “very reflective of current press lunacy.”

  21. Poignant as it may be, I still find this speech to be somewhat verbose for my taste. I’ll stick with the classic:

    “Molon Labe.”

    Not just for its brevity, but because I find it contains a note of pragmatism – it’s not just a rousing call to resist aggression, but also a none too vague suggestion as to what will happen to the aggressors, should they persist.

    And although the original refers to weapons, I believe it can have the exact same meaning when it comes to speech. Words can be just as dangerous when used right, and trying to police them – quite literally to the point of outright bans – only invites more eager use in response. And we’re seeing more and more evidence every day that the left fears words now more than anything.

  22. A modern verbose version:



  23. I’ve never been sure of that maxim. It is closely related to, “where there’s life, there’s hope.” However, under some circumstances it seems better to give up. Then the counter-examples start pouring in. The guy in prison for life who is released after the DNA project (whatever that’s called) produces contrary evidence. Our prisoner has no idea these people even exist and they end getting him out of his “hopeless” situation.

    After all the Enlightenment philosophy, I need to read something newer. How does intersectional feminism square the circle of “right action”? If there is no “right”, does the concept mean anything? If not, and all action is equally right, why NOT just kill them? Surely any philosophical framework needs to answer the question of why not just kill all the proponents of it.

    With respect to the Enlightenment, I’m definitely in the “never give up, never surrender” camp. Even if they were full of it, it’s a far more successful framework than anything else that’s come up. I guess I’m a utilitarian, at least in part. And Epstein didn’t kill himself.

    • it’s a far more successful framework than anything else that’s come up
      Another Churchill quote:
      Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.