St. Patrick, All American Saint



Sometimes the left is so predictable, it makes your teeth ache.

Okay then. It makes my teeth ache.

You see, some special critters last week were complaining about how celebrating Saint Patrick is cultural appropriation.

We’ll leave aside, for the time being, the fact that I’m not exactly sure who we’d be appropriating St. Patrick from.  I mean, sure, he’s a Catholic saint, celebrated by … well, pretty much everyone in America, Catholic or not, Irish or not.

He is, I presume, celebrated in Ireland too, but from what I heard it’s a more subdued celebration, a religious one and certainly having nothing to do with pinching people for not wearing green and/or green beer.

The problem with the left is that they don’t understand America.  Yes,  I’m sure a lot of them were born and raised here, and the fact they understand America so poorly is the worst indictment of American education I’ve ever seen.

Because St. Patrick, as he’s celebrated is not cultural appropriation.  He is an American Saint, in the sense we celebrate him, as much as a Catholic saint.

To understand this we need to go back to the history of Irish immigrants in America.

Even I – and on one side my husband is a third generation Irish Immigrant (on the paternal side on that side his ancestors go all the way to the revolution.  The other side is oh, German, Scottish, Amerindian. In other words, my husband is also all American) – hadn’t fully grasped how bad things were for Irish immigrants in the beginning.  I hadn’t fully grasped it until I was reading a history of Cleveland (I was an exchange student to Stow, Ohio) and found out that the procedure of the police when investigating any crimes in the early 20th century was “Find all the micks and the Italians, and interrogate them till they give up the culprit.”

The thing is, as my husband noted when I told him this “that it wasn’t wrong most of the time.”  And, yeah, he’s right. At the turn of the century some of the criminals in these communities had histories that read like a demon’s resume.

But the Irish integrated. They worked, they  worked at being American. They taught their kids to be American.

Oh, but they still celebrated St. Paddy.  And St. Paddy became a point of pride.  And the t-shirts with “Kiss me, I’m Irish” came out.  Till eventually everyone wanted to join in the fun (and, let’s face it – hoists her bottle of stout in the general direction of the screen – the beer.) And because by then the Irish had become Americans, they said “Sure, why not? Everyone can celebrate St. Paddy’s with us. Everyone is Irish for a day.”

This was something totally alien to Europeans.  When my – second generation Irish immigrant — history teacher during my exchange student year asked me what I was doing for St. Patrick’s, I told him I wasn’t Irish. He told me I looked like an Irish lass to him.  (For the rest of the year he referred to me as his Irish lass and kept asking people if I didn’t look Irish to them. Turns out he wasn’t completely wrong. According to genetic report, there’s some Irish in there.  Actually there’s some of almost everything. No wonder I like America.)  And dang it, for St. Patrick’s day, the entire school (mostly German and Polish, judging by both looks and last names) was Irish.  They wore shamrocks, and they dressed in green and they wished everyone a happy St. Patrick’s.  It was in fact the most American thing ever.

Because we Americans are about nothing if not cultural appropriation.

We take what’s best about each group of incoming immigrants, and we shamelessly make it ours.

And groups like the Irish, once reviled and marginalized become central parts of the American story.

You know what’s needed for it, though? That they give up their tribalism.  Which to be fair most Irishmen, and even most Italians have.  Sure. They will still be very proud of their heritage, but when their kids marry outside it, they just pretend  to think that there’s a bit of their heritage in the new spouse.

One of my school friends, who is – almost certainly – pure German, has become an Italian mom by this magic.  And that’s fine, though it’s only in America.

I was thinking about this, when I read this article in the Atlantic.  If you don’t want to lose brain cells by reading it, the gist of it is that Talar Ansari, probably second generation immigrant from some Arab country or other, looked at the shootings in New Zealand, and is sure that the “White Supremacists” are going to get him. And that white supremacists are a far greater terrorist threat than Islamic radicals.

(Will someone get my eyes? They rolled all the way under the sofa.)
Honestly… where to begin? Are there white supremacists in America? Sure. There’s 300 million of us.  There’s people who believe all kinds of crazy things.

Are Muslims in danger of white supremacists?
Well, except for a minority of them, Muslims are white (and most Arab countries were allied with Hitler, btw.)  They’re as white as I am (Latin is a cultural subgroup, not a racial one, though everyone forgets that.)  We’re a member of the Mediterranean sub-race of the Caucasian race.

The prejudice against new immigrants has bloody nothing to do with race. See the prejudice against Irish and Italians.

And, note that I said above, some of it is logical and justified. Marginalized communities often harbor in their midst less than savory elements. Because those hide where people band together for tribal comfort. (See the science fiction fand-and-writer community and pedophiles.) Because users use people. And entire groups of people.

The problem I had with Talal Ansari’s view is that it was entirely tribal and entirely one-sided.  He sees all these threats (real and imaginary. Look, if there were white supremacists under every rock in America it would have saved Jussie Smollet a lot of trouble.) against his people, his tribe, his community. He sees “islamophobia” everywhere.
But he doesn’t note when someone of his religion spreads anti-semitic  “Jewish banker” conspiracies in the house of representatives.  And he’s apparently blind to the very real reason that Americans have to fear Islamic terrorism.

To explain it to the blinkered Mr. Ansari: because people who claim to be of your religion want to kill us for being American. That was the crime of those who died in 9/11, and the ones who died in the Boston Marathon, and of those who have avoided death only because the would-be terrorists were caught in time.

Is it unfair that people – yeah, even me – cringe at a group speaking in Arabic in a public place?  Sure it is.

It was also unfair that the way to investigate crimes in Cleveland at one time was “round up all the Micks and the Eyetalians.”

Was it permanent? Nope. Those people tried to be as American as they could, and, yes, called out their own bad elements, instead of talking about how oppressed their tribe was and holding on to their tribal specialness.

They went forth and raised their kids to be American, and married other brands of American, and shared the good things in their culture – food and drink, mostly. It’s always food and drink, but also devotion to family – while forgetting the ancestral hatreds of the places they’d left behind.

And eventually everyone became Irish for a day. And everyone  faced with a vast quantity of pasta gestures encouragingly and says “Mangia, mangia.”

Because they’re American, the culture that takes the best of every culture in the world and forgets the worst, the evil things, the ancestral hatreds back there.

What Mr. Ansari needs is a shamrock. We won’t push the beer, if he’s keeping to his religion’s prohibitions on alcohol (Remember, Irish and Italians were also once a religious minority.) Saying top o’ the morning wouldn’t hurt either.  Nor would wishing everyone a happy St. Patrick’s day. Or saying that for a day he’s descended from the O’Ansara’s.

Because Americans will accept anyone who makes an effort. (And, yes, steal their best recipes. Sorry, it’s who we are. It’s what we do.)

You’re in America now. You can hold on to all the crazy that made the place you or your ancestors came from a place to leave.

Or you can remember you’re an American first and say it with us “That Ilhan Omar. She’s such an idiot anti-semite.”

Then wish a Happy St. Patrick day to your Jewish co-worker, wear a shirt that says “kiss me, I’m Irish” and have a good time.
Top o’ the morning to you! Welcome to America.

288 thoughts on “St. Patrick, All American Saint

  1. IIRC one element of St. Patrick Day in the US is that it was a successful attempt to inform the political bosses that “there a lot of us Irish and we vote” (my phrase).

    Which makes the “everybody’s Irish on St. Patrick’s Day” very ironic. 😀

    1. Like the brief and glorious history of the Catholic Party in New York City. Its candidates ran for school board and lost. So did all the Democrats they ran against. Next election rolled around. They went to the Democratic candidates and said, “So, about our issues. . . .”

      1. Even a loss can work in your favor, if it demonstrates the need to band together for strength.
        I’m mixed, but mostly British/Scottish/Welsh/Northern European (primarily Dutch and Deutsch) – 67%
        The rest is Irish.
        I grew up in Cleveland, one of the original melting pots. After a generation or two, the kids rebelled against marrying another of their clan, and branched out into other ethnicities/races. Most, by my generation, are quite mixed.
        So, in my life, I’ve actually been a part of ethnically blended communities, that enjoyed the food/feast days/culture of other ethnics.
        Not so the new immigrants. They tend to NOT mix, instead going back to the “Old Country” to find a spouse. Without that marital mixing, Americanization just doesn’t work.

  2. Lots of Irish teetotalers….

    Actually, it seems to have depended on time and area of Ireland. Sometimes it was a big deal and included a fair amount of drinking and rowdiness, and sometimes the priests and leading citizens put the kibosh on it. Sometimes another saint was the object of the rowdiness or churchliness.

    But most immigrant communities outside Ireland are from the 1700s and early 1800s, the time when a patteran (patron saint feast) was evening or early morning for praying (around the destroyed Catholic church, or a path, or a holy well), and the rest of the day for a market with fair souvenirs, a lot of eating and drinking, and an increasing number of fights as the day wound toward evening and night again.

          1. I see you’ve not been properly informed that one is best off by setting the drink down, and downing any of said drink, before reading comments here. Otherwise one is apt to spatter a screen and/or keyboard and waste perfectly good coffee/tea/soda/seltzer/beer/wine/spirits/etc. And, I will note, that others are FAR better at inspiring such reactions. In fact, you might wish to make sure your cup/glass/tumbler is empty, and perhaps even out of reach, before reading some of RES’s commentary.

            1. If I bring a little beverage onto your humdrum keyboards, it makes me feel as though my hard work ain’t been in vain for nothin’. Bless you all.

              I really do need to bookmark this video clip, because Jean Hagen’s line reading is so dead on perfect.

    1. When I was on study abroad in Cork in 03, St. Paddy’s day was, in fact, mostly an excuse to party – or at least it was in the college crowd. Big parade in the morning, with green and orange on everything (and lots of Viking hats), and then the rest of the day was “booze! Booze! The firemen cried as they came a-knocking on the door…”

      1. In my college crowd, anything was an excuse for the booze. Mickey Mouse’s birthday is one that I remember in particular. (November 18th, which was usually just after mid-terms at that school).

  3. You see, some special critters last week were complaining about how celebrating Saint Patrick is cultural appropriation.

    In center city Philadelphia on my walk home from a Quaker school stood St. Patrick’s — the church and school. It had long been and would continue to be a central part of the neighborhood for many years to come. (The school eventually closed, the costs to bring it up to date being prohibitive, but the church, last I knew, remains.) I can just imagine these know-nothing-do-gooders trying to tell the good folks of that neighborhood that they had no right to call their church by that name.

    St. Patrick’s day as it is celebrated in the United States is ours, do they dye the Liffey River green. Nah, no, nay, never, think no more of it. That is the kind of thing only we crazy people in the United States will do.

    Anyway, me, I keep my head down and wear a bit of orange on the 17th of March.

        1. I tried the Yuengling mass-bottled version once, and between the taste and the name I had the distinct impression that it earned a serenade from a pint o’ Guinness. Something beginning with “I was born on a Dublin street…”

          1. You need to try the various stouts ales – not Guiness (I’m not all that fond of it myself), but the MANY dark and flavorful beers of Ireland.

    1. Anyway, me, I keep my head down and wear a bit of orange on the 17th of March.

      I’ll drink to that!

    2. I haven’t been in Chicago for a couple of decades, and Nixon was president the last I was there on a St. Paddy’s day. Do they still dye the Chicago River green?

      There was a pizzeria in Santa Clara called the Chicago Pizza Dock. Went there on the 18th of March one year and laughed out loud at the green stripe on the floor. (Echoing the green center stripe on State Street for the parade.)

      1. Yes they still dye the Chicago River green. As of 2009, the White House fountain in D.C. goes green as well. Your tax dollars at work, ain’t it just grand?

        1. Eh, if they want to dye their river green, let them. It might actually bring in a net income from the tourists. Certainly less annoying to residents than closing off a bunch of city streets for a marathon.

          As for the WH fountain, you’d be surprised at how far just a little bit of food dye will go. Now, the two dozen forms and the undoubtedly unionized worker that needs two hours to get the job done, that’s a different matter…

    3. I was immensely entertained by the number of people in my very conservative Protestant congregation (I’m a very quiet flaming liberal there…) wore either green or orange (or both!) at church yesterday.

  4. It went from rounding up all the micks, to stereotypical cops being Irish, right quick.
    Muslims seem to be noted for refusing to integrate.

    1. Give it time. Took the Irish awhile to come into the fold–during World War I, seventy years after the great Irish wave came over, the overall community sentiment was pro-German because they were anti-British, something that cropped up even in the early stages of World War II. (And that’s not even getting into the time a bunch of Civil War veterans got together and tried to take over Canada in order to arrange a trade.)
      I mean, good night, the IRA and NORAID were getting money from Irish-Americans well into the 1980s. Only reason the funds dried up was because the Irish terrorists started linking arms with the KGB and Quaddafi.

      Most American Muslims are second-gen, maybe third-gen at most. And frankly, we’re a lot better at assimilation and integration than the Euros are. I like our chances, frankly.

      1. We’re a lot worse at assimilation and integration than our ancestors were. Public schools did not tend to glorify ethnic identity, for one thing, while denouncing America’s history.

        Admittedly, second-generation immigrants tend to be the worst phase, ignorant of what their parents fled and resentful that they have to adapt to prosper, that they are not immediately recognized as the special folk that they are.

        1. I’ve been kicking myself for years. I still remember sitting in a Psych class back in the mid-90’s and hearing about multi-culturalism and wanting to ask ‘but isn’t that just going to cause division where there is now increasing unity?’

          1. Shhhhhhh! The truth is that certain powers that be don’t want to build unity … something about “Divide and conquer”.

      2. I was in Boston a couple of weeks after 9/11. One red haired, green eyed cabbie was railing about how American supporters of Muslim extremists should all be shot. I asked him if his GrandDa had ever sent money back to the Auld Sod to support The Cause. He gave me the gimlet eye, and stated that that was a different thing altogether.

        1. Well, where the bombs went off was a key difference.

          And in Northern Ireland supporters of The Cause that got his GrandDa’s money were jailed and sometime’s shot.

          If he’s said that about Saudi’s sending money to American born Muslims it would be a better comparison.

        2. Truth, and different it is. The Brits invaded Ireland, imposed their own laws and suppressed local custom.

          The West invaded the Middle East and forced huge amounts of wealth on them for the favor of removing a noxious fluid from their soil.

        1. Oh, aye. Their relationship is accurately depicted by the Sheepdog and the Coyote in them old Warner Bros. documentaries.

          Sure, you can be seeing it for yourself.

          1. While he is the same model as Wile E., there are three changes:
            One, the red rather than black nose.
            Two, the white (not cream) eyes.
            And three, the claim that Ralph is, of course, a wolf – hence the interest in sheep.

            1. Mm. coyotes will go after sheep. They like training their pups to hunt by tearing up a young lamb.

              1. Not arguing that. Just that WB/LT says Ralph is a wolf.
                As opposed to a Wolf (the whistling type – the kind that asks “Hoooooooowold is she?”)

                1. Indeed. Those are Ralph Wolf and Sam the sheepdog.
                  Ralph was supposed to have a touch more meat on his bones, and a bit more tail. Though Chuck had a certain gleam in his eyes when he said that.

        1. Iirc in the northeast at least cops and firefighters were not paid what they are now and was a job with prestige sinilar to coal mining. So the underclass was disproportionately represented

    2. Refusing to integrate is actually part of their religion.

      “Oh you who believe, do not take (such) Jews and Christians as friends and allies who themselves are friends and allies of each other. And whoever of you (Muslims) turn to them (with friendship and alliance) becomes, verily, one of them; behold, Allah does not guide such evildoers.” (Qur’an, 5:51)

      There’s also the fact that under Sharia non-Muslims are second-class, and dhimmi must pay jizya to continue to be allowed to live side by side with Muslims.

      So without reformation or apostasy, or cherry-picking, one can’t be a devout Muslim and integrate anywhere that isn’t already an Islamic society, or without changing the host nation’s laws and culture to favor Islam.

    1. Many of us in the United States haven’t the slightest idea what Cinco de Mayo is about other than an excuse to go to get together, eat Mexican food and drink prodigious amounts of beer.  

      From Wikki:

      blockquote>Cinco de Mayo (pronounced [ˈsiŋko ðe ˈmaʝo] in Latin America, Spanish for “Fifth of May”) is an annual celebration held on May 5. The date is observed to commemorate the Mexican Army’s victory over the French Empire at the Battle of Puebla, on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of General Ignacio Zaragoza.

      In the United States, Cinco de Mayo has taken on a significance beyond that in Mexico.  More popularly celebrated in the United States than Mexico, the date has become associated with the celebration of Mexican-American culture. In Mexico, the commemoration of the battle continues to be mostly ceremonial, such as through military parades or battle reenactments.

      Cinco de Mayo is sometimes mistaken for Mexico’s Independence Day—the most important national holiday in Mexico—which is celebrated on September 16, commemorating the Cry of Dolores Cry that initiated the war of Mexican independence from Spain.

      Of course, in the United States, excuses to get together, eat and drink prodigious amounts of beer seem to be easily embraced.

        1. And if we were to sell it as an excuse to gather, eat food and drink prodigious amounts of beer I bet we could turn it into a holiday, if it wasn’t already taken.

          1. Wine, please. My family turns it (and everything, really. I expect Robert’s anniversary will in future be marked every year in absentia, long after future generations have no clue who the Hoyt cousins are) into an opportunity to drink prodigious quantities of wine and eat more food than even my kids think possible.

      1. apologies, I believe that I had the HTML correct before posting, it should have closed after independence from Spain.

        The final paragraph is entirely my own.

      2. An American equivalent to Cinco de Mayo could be Saratoga, October 1777, Kings Mountain, October 1780, or a tossup between Cowpens, January 1781 (biggest battlefield defeat) and Yorktown, October 1781 (more of a siege than battle, but decisively ended the Revolutionary War.)

        1. I’d rather not have an American holiday called Cowpens. Otherwise, Orvan might think we’re honoring his ancestors.

        2. Yes, but I thinK we should try and revive June 15, Magna Carta Day. We could eat food and drink prodigious amounts of beer and read the great charter of liberties.

        3. More likely the capture of Ticonderoga, Fort Niagrara or the fall of Quebec to the British under James Wolfe in 1759 during the French and Indian War.

          1. Ticonderoga wasn’t what I would call a great military victory. Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys basically caught the entire garrison sleeping at post. On the other hand, I will be fencing on May 25th, at their 22nd Annual Ticonderoga Challenge Outdoor Epee tournament. Barring inclement weather in the afternoon, the semi-final and final matches are usually fenced in the fort’s courtyard.

            1. The Battle of Ticonderoga fought in 1759 — by the British and the French towards the end of the French and Indian war.  Mind you it wasn’t much of a battle, the French did not wish to surrender the fort and facing defeat withdrew trying blow up the fort behind them.  Only the powder magazine went, the fort remained standing, and the British happily took possession and preceded to make improvements. 

              The three battles mentioned above led to the end of the Seven Years War. Thus the British taking over French Canada and the French also ceding their claims to lands east of the Mississippi.

        1. A Mexican (legal resident) asked me about it. I said it was American college students borrowing a date near the end of the semester in order to have a party and drink. He said that made more sense than a lot of holidays.

          1. Three of the four guys and the one gal we had who were Nationals (well 2 of the guys and Norma became citizens of the USA later) me, another white fellow and the Cambodian refugee were discussing it and the white co-worker said he thought it was Mexican Independence day, and only the one guy from Jalisco knew what it was about, the other 3 “Mexicans” had grown up in the USA, so were as clueless about it other than it wasn’t Independence day. The Cambodian also knew it wasn’t Independence, but wasn’t sure who they beat for the glory of the day. He had grown up in California, so was quite familiar with the party aspects. His family story was “Escape socialist/commies/killers and reach Cali, realize another escape is needed and move to Texas!”

          2. When you start by looking at the proximate date of an excuse to party you are sure to find something that will fit the bill.

            It helps that in the U.S. we have the entire world to draw upon as a resource. With a little research I bet we could party the whole year round…

            1. Thanks to Wikipedia this is easier than ever. Simply type in the elected month_day and get a menu for celebration! For example, provides for your consideration:

              45 BC – In his last victory, Julius Caesar defeats the Pompeian forces of Titus Labienus and Pompey the Younger in the Battle of Munda.

              1337 – Edward, the Black Prince is made Duke of Cornwall, the first Duchy in England.

              1560 – Fort Coligny on Villegagnon Island in Rio de Janeiro is attacked and destroyed during the Portuguese campaign against France Antarctique

              1861 – The Kingdom of Italy is proclaimed.

              1947 – First flight of the B-45 Tornado strategic bomber.

              1473 – James IV of Scotland (d. 1513)

              1777 – Roger B. Taney, American politician and jurist, 5th Chief Justice of the United States (d. 1864)

              1804 – Jim Bridger, American fur trader and explorer (d. 1881)

              1846 – Kate Greenaway, English author and illustrator (d. 1901)

              1919 – Nat King Cole, American singer, pianist, and television host (d. 1965)

              1938 – Rudolf Nureyev, Russian-French dancer and choreographer (d. 1993)

              1942 – John Wayne Gacy, American serial killer and rapist (d. 1994)

              1979 – Stormy Daniels, born Stephanie Gregory, American adult film actress

              180 – Marcus Aurelius, Roman emperor (b. 121)

              1040 – Harold Harefoot, king of England

              1965 – Amos Alonzo Stagg, American football player and coach (b. 1862)

              2007 – John Backus, American mathematician and computer scientist, designed Fortran (b. 1924)

  5. anyone who tires to tell me i am appropriatin saint patty’s day will be referred to my last name.

    1. Hell yes! I’ll drink to that!!!

      Although, to be honest with you I will admit there are some days we ought be celebrating what we don’t. The burning of out Capitol on August 24, 1814, fer example …

      1. Hell yes! I’ll drink to that!!!

        And that might be part of the challenge.
        17 March has whiskey and beer, amongst other things.
        5 May has tequila and beer, amongst other things.
        Oktoberfest.. need I say more?
        Now, with a group that has nothing to do with alcohol, things might be harder sell.

        1. Many years ago, I worked with several expat Brits. At one point we had managed to upset one such; he sputtered, “Why in 1812 we burned your capitol of Washington DC.”
          I smiled broadly and asked, “How much would you charge to do it again?”

      2. RES, the reason we don’t celebrate that is that Americans weren’t the ones doing it.

        WE citizens have the right (and the duty, which we’ve sadly let slide these last fifty years or more) to remind our politicians who’s in charge; no furriners need apply.

      1. Dude. Dude. The amount of alcohol broughton basr by the the Japanese contingent for our annual Family Day picnic (which lasted about four hours) would have kept half a destroyer in beer and chu-his for a three day port binge. It was ridiculous.

    2. When Reggie of Reggie’s Pub in Atlanta was still alive, he’d host a private “Thank G-d we got rid of them” party for the British consular staff in Atlanta on July 4. 🙂 He was a decorated WWII vet and naturalized US citizen.

    3. I’ve been to both Cinco de Mayo and Bastille Day parties in California, but never a Guy Fawkes Day party.

      Is that a thing back east, or anywhere else in the US?

      1. Thanks to George Washington, no, not that I’m aware of.

        He basically ripped a fresh one off of some of his soldiers who were being deliberately insulting to Catholic allies. And he did it with class. I’ll see if I can find it.

      2. Yeah, props to V but GF wasn’t so much trying to strike a blow for freedom as to supplant an Anglican religious tyranny with a Catholic one. The idea of religious plurality and freedom being incorporated in your structure of government didn’t really come along for another couple of centuries.

  6. Sure, an’ there’s real reason the Proglodytes hate the celebration of Saint Paddy. Widdout him there would ha’ been no Ireland, and widdout Ireland there’s no Western Civilization.

    How The Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland’s Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe, by Thomas Cahill.

    Cahill argues a case for the Irish people’s critical role in preserving Western Civilization from utter destruction by the Huns and the Germanic tribes (Visigoths, Franks, Angles, Saxons, Ostrogoths, etc.). The book retells the story from the collapse of the Roman Empire and the pivotal role played by members of the clergy at the time. A particular focus is placed upon Saint Patrick and retells his early struggles through slavery; basically retelling portions of The Confession of Saint Patrick. Early parts of the book examine Ireland before Patrick and the role of Saint Augustine of Canterbury. Particular focus is placed upon Saint Columba and the monks he trained and the monasteries he set up in the Hiberno-Scottish mission. These holy men, according to Cahill, “single-handedly refounded European civilization throughout the continent.”

    Faith, and it’s a slave he was? Must have been of the Black Irish, begorrah.

    1. Saint Patrick and retells his early struggles through slavery

      Careful, as we know only blacks can talk about slavery because only blacks have been enslaved and then only in America.

      Of course that means the Welsh are Black and Ireland is one of the 57 states (not the 51st state, that’s Thatcher’s England, New Model Army told me so).

    2. Our local Welsh Society used to sponsor a float in the Denver St. Paddy’s Day parade, but they made us quit displaying the banner:
      “Saint Patrick was a Welshman.”
      Spoil sports.

  7. What a selfish narrow minded clod who has nothing else to distinguish them so they they clasp their Granny’s recipe for (insert disgusting ethnic delicacy) to their breast and declare you may not enjoy it, especially if wearing something embroidered and bright.

    1. Well, if it’s lutefisk or haggis or tripe-based dim-sum, I’d be happy to oblige.

        1. And even lutefisk isn’t bad if it’s prepared correctly. Unfortunately you rarely encounter that because it’s a *lot* of work.

          1. Does “prepared correctly” involve any additional steps after grinding it in the sink disposal?

  8. Latin is a cultural subgroup, not a racial one, though everyone forgets that.

    Nah, just the racists and the ill-educated. Admittedly the latter group is growing annually.

  9. Those people tried to be as American as they could, and, yes, called out their own bad elements, instead of talking about how oppressed their tribe was and holding on to their tribal specialness.

    That is the result of the modern status battle over victimhood; it induces groups to ignore their responsibility to police their own and instead to denounce the larger society for treating them as a roiling cauldron of resentment.

    1. I remembered reading about the Catholic bishop who “reformed” the Irish community so that they could actually be assimilated. In searching for it, I found an interesting contrast in the way his story was treated in 1997 by City Journal, and then in 2018.
      Two guesses which one is more in line with the wokescolds of today’s post. (see the next comment)

      “Hughes’s solution for his flock’s social ills was to re-spiritualize them. He wanted to bring about an inner, moral transformation in them, which he believed would solve their social problems in the end. He put the ultimate blame for their condition squarely on the historical oppression they had suffered at the hands of the English, which he said had caused them “to pass away from the faith of their ancestors,” robbing them of the cultural heritage that should have guided their behavior. But that was in the past: now it was time for them to regain what they had lost. So he bought abandoned Protestant church buildings in Irish wards, formed parish churches, and sent in parish priests on a mission of urban evangelization aimed at giving the immigrants a faith-based system of values.

      Self-control and high personal standards were the key—and Hughes’s own disciplined labors to improve himself and all those around him, despite constant ill health, embodied this ethic monumentally. Hughes proclaimed the need to avoid sin. His clergy stated clearly that certain conduct was right and other conduct was wrong. People must not govern their lives according to momentary feelings or the desire for instant gratification: they had to live up to a code of behavior that had been developed over thousands of years. This teaching produced communities where ethical standards mattered and severe stigma attached to those who misbehaved.

      The priests stressed the virtue of purity, loudly and unambiguously, to both young and old.

      The Draft Riots of 1863 were the death rattle of a destructive culture that was giving way to something constructive and edifying.

      Though just 30 or 40 years before, New Yorkers had viewed the Irish as their criminal class, by the 1880s and 1890s the Irish proportion of arrests for violent crime had dropped from 60 percent to less than 10 percent. The Irish were the pillars of the criminal justice system. Three-quarters of the police force was Irish. The Irish were the prosecutors, the judges, and the jailers.

      Alcoholism and drug addiction withered away. By the 1880s an estimated 60 percent of Irish women, and almost a third of the men, totally abstained from alcohol. Many Irish sections in the city became known for their peacefulness, order, and cleanliness—a far cry from the filth, violence, and disease of the Five Points and Sweeney’s Shambles of mid-century.

      How important a figure was John Hughes in American history? Suppose the mass immigration from Ireland of the mid-nineteenth century had turned into a disaster for the country. How likely is it that the open immigration of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries would have been permitted? Nativism would have won, and America would be an unrecognizably different country today—and an immeasurably poorer one.”

      1. Part Two. Compare and contrast.

        “Even before the Great Famine saw boatloads of unwelcome starving families from Ireland pour onto America’s shores, an anti-Irish, anti-Catholic backlash had set in. Churches and convents were burned in riots in several states, and a torrent of abuse in print warned Americans that Rome had designs on their freedom. Most Catholic priests didn’t wear the Roman collar on the streets in urban areas for fear of assault. Irish Catholic bishops in the main took an approach to these calamities that called for turning the other cheek. Not John Hughes.

        As he told his superiors in Rome, Americans only respected strength, clarity and confidence, and he intended to provide that. A people under siege were more likely to feel a sense of community than a people who were complacent and respected. In that case, hostility could serve a purpose.

        Hughes’s agenda was focused on three concerns. Ethnic assimilation was one. He urged his countrymen to do all they could to be perceived as patriotic citizens. That meant steering clear of the abolitionists, curbing their endless street brawls, and taking up arms for the Union during the Civil War. The New York archbishop was not a pacifist, and his support was much appreciated by President Lincoln. At the same time, he wanted immigrants from Ireland to retain their spiritual attachment to their birthplace and cultivate pride in Ireland in their children.

        Education was Hughes’s second great preoccupation. He loathed the city’s public school system, which belittled the Irish and used textbooks that derided the pope, and his hope was to initiate a growing parochial school movement.

        Hughes’s view was that education was the surest way out of poverty. No Catholic prelate was more vocal on that subject, and no one was a more aggressive fundraiser for the cause. Build the school before the church, if you have to, he told his priests. More and better schools, more and better teachers, would reduce the crime rate, make the Irish more employable, and allow Catholic Irish-Americans to live a more economically stable, spiritually grounded life.

        About “his” cathedral, he had no doubts, either. It was being built for the glory of God, and it was being built to provide his “flock” with a much-needed symbol of religious commitment, cultural identity, and ethnic unity. There was never any question about which saint it would be named after.

        John Hughes is the perfect example of a man who deserves to be better known both for what he accomplished in his time and for the issues his struggle raises. A flamboyant, authoritarian leader, he had plenty of faults. He also had a clear-eyed sense of his mission. His goal was a people who saw themselves simultaneously as good Catholics, loyal Americans and proud Irish-Americans.

        The belief in the value of a hyphenated identity has taken a hit over time, though. The American capacity to absorb newcomers and homogenise diverse cultures is proving a challenge to those who want to honour their immigrant roots even as the US proves less hospitable to immigrants in current days. Donald Trump’s America would be yet another source of despair for John Hughes.”

        No mention at all of how spiritual or moral values play any part in WHY Americans could absorb newcomers and homogenise diverse cultures.
        No mention of any possible reason why the US is less than hospitable to some immigrants (legality was not an issue in the 19th century Irish waves).
        It’s all Donald Trump’s fault.

  10. Whenever anyone whines about “cultural appropriation” I am reminded of this scene from Flint and Drake’s “Belisarius saga”:

    “Consider these robes, men of India.” She plucked at a heavy sleeve. “Preposterous, are they not? A device for torture, almost, in this land of heat and swelter.”
    Many smiles appeared. Irene matched them with her own.
    “I was advised, once, to exchange them for a sari.” She sensed, though she did not look to see, a pair of twitching lips. “But I rejected the advice. Why? Because while the robes are preposterous, what they represent is not.”
    She scanned the crowd slowly. The smile faded. Her face grew stern.
    “What they represent is Rome itself. Rome—and its thousand years.”
    Silence. Again, slowly, she scanned the room.
    “A thousand years,” she repeated. “What dynasty of India can claim as much?”
    Silence. Scan back across the room.
    “The greatest empire in the history of India, the Maurya, could claim only a century and half. The Guptas, not more than two.” She nodded toward Shakuntala. “Andhra can claim more, in years if not in power, but even Andhra cannot claim more than half Rome’s fortune.”
    Her stern face softened, just slightly. Again, she nodded to the empress. The nod was almost a bow. “Although, God willing, Andhra will be able to match Rome’s accomplishment, as future centuries unfold.”
    Severity returned. “A thousand years. Consider that, noble men of India. And then ask yourself: how was it done?”
    Again, she smiled; and, again, plucked at a heavy sleeve.
    “It was done with these robes. These heavy, thick, preposterous, unsuitable robes. These robes contain the secret.”
    She paused, waited. She had their complete attention, now. She took the time, while she waited, to send another whimsical, mental message across the sea. Thanking a harsh, cold empress named Theodora, born in poverty on the streets of Alexandria, for training a Greek noblewoman in the true ways of majesty.
    “The secret is this. These are the robes of Rome, but they are not Roman. They are Hun robes, which we took for our own.”
    A murmur arose. Huns? Filthy, barbarous—Huns?
    “Yes. Hun robes. We took them, as we took Hun trousers, when our soldiers became cavalrymen. Just as we took, from the Aryans, the armor and the weapons and the tactics of Persia’s horsemen. Just as we took from the Carthaginians—eight hundred years ago—the secrets of war at sea. Just as we took, century after century, the wisdom of Greece, and made it our own. Just as we took the message of Christ from Palestine. Just as we have taken everything we needed—and discarded anything we must—so that Rome could endure.”
    She pointed her finger toward the north. “The Malwa call us mongrels, and boast of their own purity. So be it. Rome shrugs off the name, as an elephant shrugs off a fly. Or, perhaps—”
    She grinned. Or, perhaps, bared her teeth.
    “Say better, Rome swallows the name. Just as a huge, half-savage, shaggy, mastiff cur of the street wolfs down a well-groomed, purebred house pet.”

    It could apply equally well (except that “thousand years” part, not yet anyway) to America.

    1. Nice.
      On an earlier treatment of the great general, by Robert Graves (Wikipedia): Count Belisarius is largely based on Procopius’s History of Justinian’s Wars and Secret History. However, Graves’s treatment of his sources has been criticized by the historian Anthony Kaldellis, who writes that “There are many historical novels set in the early sixth century, but none can be recommended that are both historically accurate and well-written. R. Graves’s Count Belisarius… is at least well-written.”[1]

  11. Me sainted great-great-grandmother was Irish. So if me own celebration of St. Paddy’s Day included the traditional fisticuffs following slight provocation, would that be cultural appropriation, or no?

  12. I think even I have a little Irish hidden in the blood. They intermarried… The cultural appropriation crowd are using the divide and conquer strategy. Most of them have no idea they are doing it though… but the upper management?… I’m pretty sure they know what they are doing.

  13. I am somehow not surprised that I did not run into any of the “Saint Pat’s is cultural appropriation” thing.

    Take a wild guess how my EXTREMELY Irish maternal side would respond to this. Go ahead, guess… keeping in mind that my-uncle-the-bard is in an Irish club where the first wedding they had, both bride and groom are very, very black.

    Nobody cares if they’re Irish by blood or by adopting the subculture, same as the UNIVERSAL CHURCH wanting people to celebrate the saint though without sin or blasphemy. (The second half being a desire from willing the good of those celebrating, not trying to protect our “culture” or, good heavens, a guy who is standing by the Throne.)

    1. Take a wild guess how my EXTREMELY Irish maternal side would respond to this. Go ahead, guess…

      I’ve long thought of it as Cultural Imperialism, promulgated by those grand propagandists John Ford and George M. Cohan.

      That’s why I never wear green on March seventeen.

        1. Piffle. As if wallabies have to invite pinching.

          ‘sides, anytime I fancy a pinch I’ve me own Beloved Spouse ready and willing to turn a hand to it.

          1. If wallabies kick half as hard as their kangaroo cousins, I don’t think I’d want to be the pincher. Feel free to wear whatever color you’d like every day of the year, RES.

        1. It is my opinion (and I recognize it as my opinion, not to be confused with others) that good beer is far too dark to be readily dyed green.

            1. I do not have it often, but I do rather like Old Peculiar.

              (Yeah, I know the obvious joke, “You are what you drink” folks. And… I have less of a problem with that than anyone making the quip!)

              1. Any of us would do well to be named Ancient and Unique. The word peculiar has a venerable history, and its current use does not do it justice.

              1. Ridge Winery made a bunch of zinfandels like that. They were interesting for a while, but.

                1. I just looked it up. Old Peculier (real spelling) is brewed by the Theakson Brewery in Masham, North Yorkshire. It is named for The Peculier of Masham, a Peculier being a parish outside the jurisdiction of a diocese. That is, it is not under the Bishop of the diocese in which it is located.


                  Good ale, though. One of the ones I miss since going teetotal on being diagnosed with gout.

              1. I’ve had it, although it’s been years. Somewhat like a stout, as I recall. It’s an acquired taste — meaning you have to acquire the stuff before you can taste it. I found it at a bar while in Chapel Hill for a fencing tournament (I got skewered), a place boasting a selection of over 100 beers, a staggering bill of fare from which to choose.

                G-D Bless America!

                1. Aye, the one place I bought it from has, I am told, either closed or changed ownership and not to the benefit of selection. I’m sure I can still get it, but it might mean a Very Long Drive to A Very Crowded Place and, unless I have a list of things to get that cannot be acquired in more sane manner, I avoid such.

        2. I offered some Bushmills to an Irishman drinking Jamesons. He shouted that he doesn’t drink Protestant whisky.

      1. Though the late Father Andrew Greeley was wont to refer to the football team as “The Fighting Black Baptists”, in reference to the actual ethnicity of the modern team members.

  14. And dang it, for St. Patrick’s day, the entire school (mostly German and Polish, judging by both looks and last names) was Irish.

    According to my grandfather (the one who finished school at 15 or so, and traveled around on an Army surplus motorcycle doing odd jobs with his buddy until they both got hit by cupid) there were a lot of German Americans who rolled right into the whole Irish scene after WWI, much less WWII, especially if they were Catholic. A lot of the names turn English pretty dang well, and most of the Irish were Catholic, and the food isn’t THAT far off especially when folks mix it up.

    And the Polish– my goodness, they’re brothers from another mother, but on a cultural level. They JUST DON’T QUIT. (The maybe a little less of a bruiser brother that does tongue twisters. 😉 )

  15. Left: Come down to the parade and celebrate this minority culture!

    also the left: Don’t you dare celebrate this minority culture if you aren’t a part of it!

    Somebody needs better meds, and it ain’t me. Though I could probably stand to go to the chiropractor from all the whiplash.

    As for the NZ shooter, seems he just wanted to foment unrest. For being “right wing”, he sure had a lot of left wing whinging about this and that.

    1. As usual, the “right wing” attacker is, when finally observed, a left wing schmuck. It’s not even “Schroedinger’s $WHATSIS” but more “PINOCHIO’S $WHATSIS”

      1. I have talk radio on for background noise– one caller to…somebody on Town Hall radio… declared that the Pulse Nightclub attack was right wing, because it was motivated by religion.

        He then insisted that 9/11 was a right-wing attack for the same reason, and slammed the phone down.

    2. Thing is, he might actually be the closest thing to an actual Nazi.
      Obsession with “degeneracy?” Check.
      Freaking out about racism? Check.
      Hatred of global capitalism? Check.
      Weirdly environmentalist? Check.

      1. He outright wrote that he was probably the one real fascist the media would call fascist – except they’re not. *facepaw*

          1. Facts are expensive — they require armies of fact-checkers, they need verification, they often require context to be properly understood. Facts can even be complicated, demanding paragraphs of explanation, and sometimes they are contrary to existing beliefs. All of this adds to the overheads of struggling news disseminators and hampers their mission to shape public opinion.

            This is why economic exigencies have prompted the shift to far more economical, far more comforting narrative. It’s all Trump’s fault.

            1. Speaking of, did you know that Israel is a Jewish-Only State?

              This was later “corrected” to Representative Jew-Hater being upset by the treatment of Palestinians by Israel.

  16. Mentioning the following because history is never willing to be so simple or direct as some would have it:

    A recent search of Spanish colonial records indicates that the first St.Patrick’s day celebration on the North American continent took place in St. Augustine, Fla. in 1600, in the following year a parade was added.

    The first in the thirteen colonies took place in 1737, overseen by the Charitable Irish Society of Boston, founded that same year to help Irish immigrants to the area. At the time the majority of immigrants from Ireland were Protestant, not Catholic.

    1. We went out for Mexican food, ended up picking a place where the waiter’s English was as bad as my Spanish, and the bus-boy looked like a teen Beto but with a personality. From behavior, was also the waiter’s grandson, or nephew, or something.

      Of course, the local Cathedral is also Saint Pat’s.

    2. German engineers brought their culture and music with them when they came to work in the Mexican mines — and you get Norteñas!

      When it is played here it is suggested are appropriating Mexican culture, forgetting the Germans.

      1. Pointed out to a Mexican co-worker that Lake des Allemans meant Germans, and the nearby town of Kramer had such “Cajun” names as Schmidt,Shultz, and of course Kramer. He got thoughtful and said “My grandma’s maiden name is Alleman. I guess that means there it’s a little German in me.” I then Pointed Kurt it was obviously very little, because he was so short. (He is 5′ 1″)

    3. The news last night was in Shamrock, TX, and interviewed a pair of ladies who have never missed a St. Patrick’s day celebration there since they moved to the Panhandle. They were both black. So what?

      I did see someone on-line grumbling about stereotypes and people insulting real Irish by assuming that all Irish drink too much and dance and fight. *Sigh*. They never met my relatives on the maternal side. There’s a reason for stereotypes.

      1. Well, it IS insulting.
        They forgot about singing, and getting highly emotional in general, and threatening people that you then hug……

        1. um…. so, they are right about the genetic relationship about the North of Portugal and Ireland.
          Add in mad desire for a snazzy hat while drunk, and you have it. (Plague of drunkards stealing policemen’s caps EVERY weekend.)

        2. Or as a fellow Gallician (from the Spain side) put it: We drink a bit and next thing you know we have a funny hat on, and are trying to row across the Atlantic ocean with no pants on.

      2. Stereotypes- like the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame?

        And- they’ve been attacked for that by the PC Police….

  17. I admit, back in the days when I could listen to NPR, a mild desire to sponsor a day, specifically March 17, in the name of the Gorrah sisters: Cher and Bea.

    As that would have required giving money to NPR, it was an easily suppressed whim.

    1. For me, NPR became unlistenable around 2003 when they had really hit full stride with Bush Derangement Syndrome. Not that I am, or ever was, a fan of him, but jeeze.

      1. Once upon a time (back in the mid-late 1990’s) M(n)PR had a show with a decent host. He’d ask the ‘Left Wing’ questions to ‘Right Wing’ guests and ask the ‘Right Wing’ questions to ‘Left Wing’ guests. And repeat two or three times if the answer was a Talking Point NotReallyAnAnswer… and then let it go – no need to force it as the point had been made. Supposedly he moved to DC or such to go with NPR.. and I’ve since forgotten the fellow’s name and likely never heard of/from him again.

        The funny thing was, there were a couple times I found N/MPR and Rush Limbaugh… covering the same story… almost the same way. But that was decades ago now.

      2. Aye, that’s when they jumped the shark for me, as well. I used ti enjoy listening to “All Things Considered” on my drive home for work, but it became clear in the Bush years that some things were beyond consideration.

        1. I still remember what finally prompted me to permanently change the dial. It was probably ATC or some other such breathy production. I forget the specific issue, but they had on a Lefty, a Righty, and someone who at least passed as a convincing neutral. Each guest gave reasonably intelligent answers that fit rather neatly in their assigned parts and it was somewhat useful to listen to.

          After the fundraising break, the host said, “And now, here to make sense of the issue, we’d like to welcome the Editor in Chief of Salon dot com…”


        2. I bailed when the Prairie Home Companion “joke show” started with a demand to disenfranchise evangelical Christians because they voted wrong. The show happened (by accident, I know) to air on the anniversary of Kristalnacht. Bad, bad juju there.

      3. CNN is even worse than NPR was when I quit.

        During a search last week a link came up on a CNN video about the 737-MAX 8 issues. I’m interested in the possibility that the fly by wire software is bringing down airliners.

        In 16 minutes not one on the fly by wire issues, but 10+ on “this administration official is ex-Boeing” and “Oh, the President has praised Boeing” and all but saying “Trump personally approved known bad software because he hates people”.

        I don’t watch TV (don’t even have cable) so I knew they had gotten bad, but this even staggered me. I could not imagine how bad they had gotten.

        1. Supposedly Philo T. Farnsworth himself despaired of what his work had lead to. Though he did say it was all worth it after all… 20 July 1969.

            1. Given who is having the crashes, I think it’s autopilot failure– which American pilots catch, because they are hired as pilots, while countries where you’re hired because of your social standing they don’t catch it.

              Hired-for-skill pilots can have “duh!” days, but then the co-pilot catches it.
              I’ve heard of co-pilots being fired for (correctly) correcting the head pilot…..

              1. The system under the microscope is not active when the autopilot is activated. Also, from the aero people, it was too early in the flight to let Otto take over. From other articles, Boeing coulda/shoulda trained the pilots more on the new system.

                There’s also some indication that Boeing elected not to use redundant sensors (Angle of attack), and a wonky sensor seems to have played a part in the earlier crash in Indonesia. This seems to be related to the legacy airframe, but new engines and control systems.

                1. I’m probably using the wrong term, but the a-machine-is-flying system was specifically said to be used by the guy who was on the Lars Larson show.

                2. (If my vague memory is correct, the strict meaning of autopilot is what they use when they’re up in the air. Big if, though.)

                3. Here we go:
                  The thing is Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System– which is an automated tilt control.

                  So it’s not ALL of driving, just controlling if your nose or tail goes into the dirt.

                  1. Yep, that’s the New! Improved! system that people are looking at with jaundiced eyeballs. (Think Fluffy in a bad mood). It seems to have the ability (planned sporadically) to override manual inputs.

                    I get the distinct impression that human factors people were carefully excluded from the design and/or review/test team.

            2. I just looked at eng-tips, and they have some useful information. Assuming the automagic system went bonkers, it’s in a part of the flight where the pilots are really busy, and the system seems to be a bit of a kludge.

              FWIW, the discussion is here:

              The people discussing this aren’t aerospace types (at least most of them), and I found the discussion pretty easy to follow.

              I’m glad that I’ve long ago decided not to fly any more (looking at you, TSA, various airlines, various airports).

              1. The impression I got initially (ain’t looked any closer since) was the system was sorta mishmashed together to fit possible, proposed, or threatened regulations (not sure if it was FAA or International regs) and was aimed at making them more “safe” like Airbus, and succeeded fully, making the plane fly itself into the ground just like a ‘Bus, IF the pilots were not fully trained. Complaints from US pilots were out there, but they managed to not nose in, when it went stupid. But then my brain was all . . . Squirrel! and I’ve paid it little mind.

                1. One of the bits I picked up was Boeing changed engines for more fuel-efficient ones. These had to be located differently, and this played hell with flight behavior. There also appears to have been some last minute changes (the funky system was changed to 400% greater control than originally planned).

                  I flew on an Airbus shortly after one decided for a (brief) inflight change to tailless. (Crash in Nov/Dec 2001.) I’m normally a calm flyer, but it wasn’t any fun. OTOH, Boeing seems to be well down that road to ruin.

                  1. Airbus has a line of issues they pawn off on pilots, like that tailless plane. when training in the simulator using ABI approved software the rudder acted differently than it did in actual flight, and AB never said a word until it caused a co-pilot to over use the rudder in flight (according to AB you NEVER use the rudder in flight btw.) Pilots pointed out that they were never told the rudder moved differently in flight than on the ground and the simulators didn’t reflect that, and AB still insisted it was the pilot’s fault.
                    Boeing has a line of problems over the years with the 737. Seems every time they get everything sorted out, they go through a redesign and find new ways to have issues.
                    I still prefer flying a Boeing or really most any other airframe than one made by Airbus Industries, not that I have flown or will be flying much if at all.

                    1. I used to love the Lockheed L1011. Unfortunately, I had to go to SFO to get to an airline that flew one, and San Jose was a whole lot closer. Did some flights in 727s; not the most uncomfortable plane, but in the running. (A DC8 run by Capitol Punishment Airlines got that prize. Just needed some sauce and the sardine experience would have been complete; if they folded the fish before canning.)

                    2. L1011s had a few issues early but were sorted, except it broke Lockheed from commercial sales. 727s were okay depending on who had the planes, and the seating.
                      DC8s were not bad but not great, and then they decided to stretch them to compete with bigger planes. Worst renditions were those long 8s upgraded with the 737-700 style CFM engines. Couldn’t rotate (they had a damned wear pad on the tail for some protection on tail strikes) and any roll on takeoff or landing smacked low hanging nacelles into the planet.
                      Consolidated and UPS had some left when I was fueling. The pilots hated the things.

                    3. The DC8 I suffered on was one of the stretched versions. Not sure how many it seated, but the boarding process seemed more L1011 or 747 like.

                      It didn’t help that Capitol managed to delay my luggage. Come on, SFO to ORD and you can’t fit the luggage? (They were experimenting with SFO as a terminus, maybe also in Chicago. Ground crew was rented from other airlines, so it was prime chaos.

                      That plane had World Airlines gear on it; I suspect it was configured to handle really small people. Reclining the seat could start a fight, I suspect.

                      The two worst spots on a 727 were 1) the last row (thrust reversers made it really loud) and 2) opposite the galley. Absurdly noisy for some reason. They also were marginal in range for ORD to Left coast destinations, so ORD to SFO might stop at Las Vegas.

                      My favorite flight was a Christmas Eve on an L1011 to ORD. Rotten time, but there must have been 2 dozen passengers and crew on the flight. About the only time I slept on a flight.

                    4. in the weeks after 9/11, I fueled SWA planes with 5 passengers on them. Everyone was canceling flights left right and center, but SWA grounded all their newest planes and came to an agreement not to pay the notes on the new stuff until the following year some time, then only flew those that were paid for . The bellies carried all the mail and freight they could stuff in. Everyone else wasn’t carrying mail, because they kept canceling, so there was a LOT of mail to fly. So much, the 5 passengers were gravy, and the flight was paid for with mail and cargo.
                      That is why, all the airlines lost money (or in many cases even more money) that fiscal quarter after the attacks, and SWA broke even.

    2. I used to enjoy MPR and NPR, even well into the 2010s. I didn’t always agree with them, but it was fairly enjoyable to listen to. Then they started getting heavy, heavy, heavy into the AGW thing and I just couldn’t take it anymore.

      1. When a news source reaches a point that you can predict the coverage almost as soon as you know they’re covering a story, it has ceased to be a source of news.

  18. I can imagine a time where someone will suggest you should consult 23 & Me to find out how you are allowed to live and what you are allowed to eat.  But the Marxists wouldn’t like that in the end as they are upstarts on the world stage and usurpers in Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela and parts elsewhere, not at all traditional to the natives. 

  19. I think this is the real tragedy of the African-American community. You don’t have to be a radical leftist to acknowledge that to a large degree, and not just in the south, they were actively prevented from integrating into the national population.

    When finally, the mindset changed (I suspect largely because of WWII) and the laws were changed as well, the left opened the spigots of immigration and began preaching immigrants should never integrate or allow their culture to be appropriated. They also started preaching black power and black separatism which I think are effectively the same thing.

    For my entire life we’ve have a tenth of the population be native born foreigners in a way.

      1. Are they even 1% of the population? More and more I think their numbers are very small, it’s just they have successfully occupied the choke points.

        1. Given a US population of approximately 350 million, one percent of that would be three-and-a-half million. There are entire nations with fewer people.

          It is important to keep things in perspective. The US is a BIG country and, viewed in isolation, small populations can seem very large.

          1. Cue someone’s story of having to explain to a Minority just what, exactly, minority truly meant when they visited a place where “nobody looked like him.” (Is not my story, so I upgeshutten now.)

            1. You may be thinking of Kirk’s story of some young black soldiers having that explained to them by a black NCO.

              Did some checking back to the forties and fifties, and the fraction of black population has been pretty constant, 9 to 12%, or an eighth. Real relative political power and real relative military power has not much changed.

            2. Yeah. And those eedjits who say “You have no way to relate to being a minority!” Really? Ever been a kaffir in Saudi Arabia*, sweetcheeks? Even when, as an American in ’91 you were part of the group that just pulled the chestnuts of the House of Saud out of the fire, there was *no* doubt that you were second-class individuals there. Of course that doesn’t actually count cuz of my ‘White Privilege’, I guess.

              *Or Yanqui in Panama, or Farang in Thailand, or Gwai Loh in China, or . . .

      2. Oh, and I’m much less concerned about integrating them into the population not only due to numbers.

        African Americans have a lot to contribute and the more integrated they are the more they can.

        Rich, white leftists have nothing positive to add, except maybe a warning example, as far as I can tell.

    1. 1865 to 1945. 80 years of zero integration, free, but not allowed to join the rest of America, roughly 4 generations. 1945-1965 20 years, one generation to change to equal rights to enable integration. 1965-1985, 20 years, another generation, raised from infancy to adulthood with clear, and virtually equal chance as the rest of America, thanks to Affirmative Action, UNCF, etc. 1985-2005. 20 years of increasing integration, with local recidivism where the local governments discriminated against the lower economic classes for fiscal reasons (Ferguson, et al.) 2005-2008 Barack Obama as Senator from Illinois. 2008-2016 President Barack Obama does more than anyone ever did to reverse racial integration in the U.S. to pre-1965 conditions.

      1. I am not convinced the majority of the AA population experienced a chance at integration in the years post 1965. I think there was a concerted effort to stifle what had begun in the immediate post war and by 1985 it was bearing fruit.

        For example, the first time I heard of “Ebonics” (although this time it was called “Black Enlgish”) was on the old CBS Saturday morning show 30 Minutes. They were talking to two young ladies whose high school encouraged them to use “Black English” in their speaking and writing. Low and behold the young ladies get into college and are embarrassed to speak in class and are failing on their papers due to not using proper English.

        White Leftists know they are better than non-whites and are damn sure going to make sure they aren’t proven wrong. If they were they couldn’t show how moral they were by condescending to them.

        Let’s face it, the modern Leftist is (usually) Mr. Collins or (less often, although they all they think are/want to be) Lady Catherine de Berge.

        1. My tipping-point clue that the black community leadership actively opposed assimilation and preferred segregation was when the NAACP shut down cross-racial adoptions, even though there were not anywhere close to enough black couples to satisfy the need.
          They preferred that black children continue to live in “authentic black” ghetto horror, than have them be raised in stable, loving, white homes.
          The issue is never the issue; the issue is always power.

    2. That is a sad fact of history- the Jim Crow South was seriously bound and determined to keep Black Americans down and subservient. Entrepreneurial blacks were seen as “uppity”, and would often get put back into their “place” by the KKK or local law enforcement* (cf the Groveland Four case).
      By the time of the civil rights era, when the idea that Rule of Law and Equal Protection were finally forced on states who should have damn well done it themselves, LBJ came along. He realized that welfare and big state were far more efficient means of keeping blacks segregated and poor than Jim Crow could ever be.

      *often one and the same in some southern towns.

  20. At this point, anyone who uses “cultural appropriation” unironically is doing me a favor, the further toward the beginning of their commentary, the better. It’s like a Bill Engvall “Here’s Your Sign” signal of idiocy that saves me the trouble of taking them seriously.

    Irish is one of the few backgrounds I can actually find in my family tree, but he came over in 1790. Other than the neatness of knowing that, I feel no special affinity toward Ireland, or feel the need to celebrate it. As with nearly every branch of my family tree, they’ve all been over here since the 18th century. In that regard, I’m a Native American. And that’s not appropriation.

  21. My grandmother’s maiden name was Murphy. Can you get any more Irish than that? Not by much. So anyone trying to tell me that I can’t celebrate St. Paddy’s day will be told where to go.

    Ironically, that paternal ancestor, Murfee, came to America in the late 1600s/early 1700’s. So by virtue of that one man, I am Irish and Daughter of the Revolution.

  22. As we count down to Opening Day, let us ponder this post-War celebration of cross cultural amity:

    Two Micks and a Hebe walk onto an infield …

  23. I, for one, am morbidly impressed that this fellow considers St. Patrick’s to be “cultural appropriation” considering the Irish are white and whites are typically slapped with the label of having no culture to appropriate in the first place (which is why we gotta steal everyone else’s, or something).

    Now has anyone complained about Mardi Gras being cultural appropriation? Or does that not count because it’s French?

  24. According to the same people when Americans adopt foreign customs, America is evil because “cultural appropriation,” when foreign nations adopt American custom, America is evil because “cultural imperialism,” and when American doesn’t interact with foreign nations, America is evil because “isolationism.” I think the best conclusion is that those who assert such things really just hate America and western civilization, and should be either ignored or actively hunted down as circumstances dictate.

        1. Mark Steyn points out another Kafka trap:

          Calling Out Around the World
          After the Islamic terror attack in Melbourne four months ago, Muslim community leaders refused to meet with Aussie Prime Minister Scott Morrison because of all the systemic Islamophobia. After the Christchurch attack, the same Muslim community leaders are demanding a meeting with Morrison because of all the, er, systemic Islamophobia. To say Terror Attack A is something to do with Islam is totally Islamophobic; to refuse to say Terror Attack B is Islamophobic is even more totally Islamophobic.

  25. The cultural appropriation crowd are among the most mathematically incompetent in the world. There are 11 times more people of Irish descent in the U.S. than in all of Ireland. So just whose culture is it now?

      1. So the reality is, anytime we appropriate part of someone’s culture, usually the good parts, we are actually PRESERVING it from being lost. Because sure as God made little green apples, the Islamization of the British Isles will result in the complete destruction of the various British cultures and histories.

        1. “we are actually PRESERVING it from being lost. ”
          You may have hit on the reason the Left objects so strenuously.

  26. For a while I worked in a Cigar Store in New Hope PA, right across from a bar called Havana’s (the one with the dead tree trunk stuck up through the porch). And one St. Patrick’s Day I noticed that, by 3:00 PM the place was jumping and itmwas already VERY drunk out. 😁

    And I thought there was something wonderfully American about a bunch of ethnically diverse people gathering on St. Paddy’s Day to get pie-eyed at a bar called Havana’s. And it struck me that ne of the problems the Muslim immigrants were going to have in gaining acceptance was that they had no holiday on which their neighbors could get sloshed with th them. It’s hard to maintain any real bigotry against somebody you get grass-grabbing drunk with.

    1. Muslims are very particular when it comes to alcohol. Publicly, they’re supposed to never drink, shun and denounce anyone who does. Funny thing that. I remember going into clubs in several cities around the UAE, and there were plenty of Muslim men in them drinking beer or hard liquor. That right there tells me that Islam needs some severe reformation as a religion.

      1. Reminds me of an old joke:
        “Why do you always invite two (Baptists, Mormons, local t-total religious group) when you go fishing?”
        “So that they won’t drink all your beer.”

        Or the famous “breakfast lox.” Or my own grandmother’s Chicken Enchilada casserole….which she served for the bridge game, every Friday, from well before Vatican II, in a Catholic town. 😉

        1. “Reminds me of an old joke:”
          Well, now that you mention it….
          (And to establish my Right to Tell Cultural Jokes, I am an Irish Welsh Mormon, and I have the DNA & church certificates to prove it.
          Ahem. On to business)
          Every Friday night, Paddy would sit at the bar and order five beers, and proceed to raise each one in a silent salute and drink it down.
          One night, the barkeep finally asked the reason for this ritual.
          “Well,” Paddy replied, “I have four brothers living, and we all left home for different lands, so every Friday we drink a toast to each other, for old times’ sake.”
          “That’s beautiful,” said the barman; and not a few of the customers shed a quiet tear of empathy.
          One night, Paddy came in and only ordered four beers.
          Fearing the worst, the barkeep asked if there had been a tragedy in the family.
          “Ah, no,” Paddy reassured him, “but I’ve joined the Mormon Church, and my bishop told me to quit drinking.”

          1. Being a Mormon (iirc), Larry Corriea would probably get a kick out of that one. Don’t know if he has any Irish ancestry, but the odds are probably pretty good he has some.

      2. Had access to hooch in Saudi as the British ‘Camps’ had pubs. Very low-key and *don’t* get caught inebriated in public. Other than that it was pretty much, ‘Out of sight, out of mind’. Still, the weirdest thing I ever saw was when I got caught up in making a sadiq run with some of my (not usual, I had to do a temp swap to another crew due to someone getting an on-the-job injury (he was run over by a helicopter)) co-workers; cue the noir-ish warehouse staffed by menacing swarthy men in robes, some armed with AK-47s . . .

      3. That was the upper class drinking. Saw it too. In the hotel bars that catered to tourists. Well, actually- those were the only bars- the ones in hotels.

        The only free standing bar I saw was in the port area of Jebel Ali. That catered to sailors- merchant and military. That catered to working class- but not working class muslims. Sign over the bar reminded people that the bar was NOT ALLOWED to serve alcohol to muslims. Poles, Germans, Americans, Russians, (dot) Indians, I saw all of them drinking. But no Arabs. Apparently if you don’t give sailors a place to drink- they don’t come into port….

        The muslims that yacht and travel to casinos in Monte Carlo and such are well known for their expensive drinking habits. DO NOT take pictures of them drinking. Their security doesn’t give a crap about freedom of the press. No matter where they are.

  27. “Culture Appropriation” response s/b always: Yes. That is what we do. Love it. Accept it. Contribute to it.

    OR Shut the H E double hockey stick up, don’t want to hear about your prejudices.

  28. I haven’t commented, until today, about the shooting in New Zealand.

    My comments are here:

    Regarding the media. Sarah said “Talar Ansari, probably second generation immigrant from some Arab country or other, looked at the shootings in New Zealand, and is sure that the “White Supremacists” are going to get him. And that white supremacists are a far greater terrorist threat than Islamic radicals.”

    Also of note in this regard, Alexandria Occasional-Cortex and a host of other Lefties. Well, today some random Turk killed three people on a streetcar in Holland, so we will see some finger-pointing from the Right.

    So productive.

    When you’re willing to use a problem to forward your political ambitions, it means the problem isn’t that big a deal. If it was, you’d be SOLVING the problem to forward your ambitions. Pulse nightclub, Danforth Avenue, a Utrecht streetcar, a Gurudwara in Alberta, a mosque in New Zealand or 9/11 2001 and the Twin Towers fall. These are attacks that are small potatoes to a national government. A few people died, big news got made, lots of opportunity for self-advancement. No need to do anything useful, because there’s nothing to be done except clean up.

    That’s why we are not going to see governments doing anything constructive to address the problem. Private citizens will be taking steps, but the big news and the big noise will be elsewhere.

    Therefore as private citizens, maybe we should all think about what the most powerful response to a random, distributed, non-predictable threat is.

    Hint, running all the members of [insert group here] out of the country won’t get it done. The problem is not [group]. The problem is lone-wolf terrorism is currently a popular way to make a big political splash, and there seem to be a lot of individuals very interested in killing people they hate.

    Maybe we all need to put our science fiction/fantasy thinking caps on and write some stories that illustrate the problem, and spitball some out-of-the-box solutions.

    Magic spells, technology, moral argument, ready GO.

    1. Some folk see in any crisis an opportunity, and eagerly work that crisis to advance their opportunities.

      Thus the failure to recognize a crisis on our Southern border is due to there being no way to use it to advance their agenda, and any “mass” shooting is significant only as a tool to advance their agenda.

      Their only concern is whether the problem can help advance their agenda because their only problem is their agenda is not advancing fast enough.

      1. Somewhat related to various secretaries of state putting on blinders, wearing earmuffs, and then going, “La la la la la not getting any evidence of voter fraud here . . .”

        1. My understanding is that it is only voter fraud when a Republican somehow gets elected. Any election which seats a Democrat is prima facie legitimate, while seating of a Republican is deemed inherently unDemocratic.

          Just ask any Gaslight Media reporter.

    2. Don’t need to put my thinking cap on since I did that a while back.

      The correct, most efficient means of minimizing (it is never possible to actually prevent it) a “random, distributed, non-predictable threat” is constant vigilance, coupled with the means to terminate that threat when it actually arises. Situation awareness of your surroundings usually suffices for the first half; proficiency with, and carrying, concealed weapons is necessary for the second half.

      Unless you have cops already in place, armed, watching, and both willing and authorized to act, you don’t have the vigilance and means of terminating the threat provided by the government. Which means it’s up to you to do the providing. And any government that fails to either provide it, or allow its citizens to provide it, isn’t worth obeying the laws it writes.

      1. Mike said: “And any government that fails to either provide it, or allow its citizens to provide it, isn’t worth obeying the laws it writes.”

        This closely parallels my thinking. IMHO its actually a little worse than that, if a government does not allow the citizens to respond to deadly attacks when and where they happen, the people -can’t- follow the laws. They must break them to survive.

        Therein lies the danger. Society NEEDS to have a functioning and -moral- authority, particularly a modern society such as ours, where all the various food delivery, power, water and waste systems are spinning so fast. It doesn’t take much to stop it all dead in its tracks.

        So when the presumed moral authority of government insists that you let yourself be killed rather than defend yourself and your property, their authority rapidly dissipates.

        Then you get Russia, and ultimately Syria. That’s a problem.

      2. On a society wide level, the most effective counter is to inflict the same and worse on those who may become a threat.

        IE, anybody might be carrying, and they’re protected if they are protecting someone else.

  29. “Well, except for a minority of them, Muslims are white…”

    Umm, very dubious statement. The most populous Moslem nations are Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and India (~800M Moslems) which are not “white”. Add in the 60M Moslems in other East Asian countries and the
    300M in sub-Saharan Africa, and non-white Moslems are a clear majority.
    Arabs are white, but that’s a different point. (Also virulently racist; see the framing story of the Thousand and One Nights.)

    “…most Arab countries were allied with Hitler…”

    That is another very dubious statement.

    As of WW II, most “Arab countries” were European colonies or protectorates. France controlled Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Syria, and Lebanon; Britain controlled Palestine, Trans-Jordan, Iraq, Aden, Sudan, Kuwait, Bahrein, Qatar, Oman, “Trucial Oman” (now the UAE), and Egypt (de facto). Italy controlled Libya. Saudi Arabia and Yemen were neutral.

    Yes, there was a lot of pro-Axis sentiment in many Arab countries. But only in Iraq was there even an attempt to ally with the Axis. That was by a group that staged a coup and was put down in a few weeks by British forces (including elements of the Trans-Jordan Arab Legion).

    The Senussi Arabs of eastern Libya hated their Italian overlords and worked eagerly with British spies and commandos during the North African campaign. The Arabs of Morocco and Algeria had accepted French rule, and tens of thousands of them served in the French army during the war. At Cassino, the decisive attack was made by Moroccan goumiers who scaled mountains the Germans had thought impassable.

    So it’s really not accurate to label “Arabs” in general as Nazi allies.

    1. Okay, fine. I should have made that “Muslims who have actually committed acts of terror in the US are mostly white.”
      And as for Arab countries allying with Hitler, I got that impression for their current not so hidden admiration for Hitler.
      Tons of that might have to do with their cultural self-perception, etc, but…

      1. Particularly in oppressive principalities, the sentiments of the rulers and of the peoples — the famous “Arab Street” — should not be confused as one and the same.

        At best this argument supports a claim that the Arab governments were not allied with Hitler.

        Jerusalem’s Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini and his adherents beg to hold a different opinion.

        Per Time magazine:
        “When Hitler and al-Husseini met, both leaders clearly believed that Germany was going to win, and the bulk of their conversation dealt with what the Arabs should or should not do help bring that outcome about.

        “Al-Husseini began the conversation by declaring that the Germans and the Arabs had the same enemies: “the English, the Jews, and the Communists.” He proposed an Arab revolt all across the Middle East to fight the Jews; the English, who still ruled Palestine and controlled Iraq and Egypt; and even the French, who controlled Syria and Lebanon. … He also wanted to form an Arab legion, using Arab prisoners from the French Empire who were then POWs inside Germany. He also asked Hitler to declare publicly, as the German government had privately, that it favored “the elimination of the Jewish national home” in Palestine.”

        “Though al-Husseini asked for it, Hitler did not want an Arab revolt, at least not yet, as he did not expect one to succeed. He promised that it could be undertaken after further advances into the USSR, and through the Caucasus.”

        1. So, even back in 1941, before Israel was even a pipe dream, the Muslims ruling that area of Palestine knew it was “the Jewish national home”. So much for stealing the Palestinian homeland (which iirc, is mostly just the Gaza Strip area, homeland of the Philistines.

    2. Asians, Indians, Persians and Arabs are all “white” in a lot of cases– such as when the American racists aren’t aware of where they’re from, and/or can’t gain advantage from deciding they are a minority. My “majority white” parish was about 45% Vietnamese, 30% Samoan or similar, and the rest mostly no obvious race besides a couple of black families.

      The only group that is always non-white, in the US, is African Americans.


      For the Arabs on the side of Naxis in WWII:
      (Site is basically German NPR.)

    3. Ethnicity and ancestry is one measure.

      Lineage of political movements currently in power is another.

      At the moment am not thinking clearly enough to remember whatever it was that I once heard about the latter.

    4. The most populous Moslem nations are Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and India (~800M Moslems) which are not ‘white’

      Assertion of fact not in evidence. Natives of the Indian sub-continent, which you carelessly lumped in with Indonesia, are unquestionably ‘white’ by some standards. As ‘white’ is a highly mutable, ill-defined term of nomenclature your claim is unfounded absent agreement on a specific meaning.

      1. Natives of the Indian sub-continent are white in the Leftist sense of “a population that seems on the whole to figure out how to succeed in the United States without having good Leftists be their champions”.

        Which is proof of evil nature in Leftist eyes.

          1. Which explains why they strive so hard to be the opposite of evil. 😉

  30. So MUCH THIS! I’ve added your blog to my daily look-see after a link from Ace of spades. Thanks so much!

      1. Things getting odd is not much to concern yourself about.
        Things getting even should be your greater worry.

    1. Don’t mind the minotaurs and dragons and watch out for flying carp.

  31. This sums up my annoyance right now. There’s been bombings of synagogues, churches and temples all over the world on a rather regular and terrifying basis. There was a bombing of a church in the Philippines during Sunday mass, where there were a second set of bombs set off once first responders and military arrived on scene. I’m sure that one can find more at the thereligionofpeace dot org website. Most of these don’t even make mainstream news, because the perps are usually some flavor of Islamic militant group.

    We keep getting told not to blame ‘all Muslims’ for the ongoing lists of atrocities going on thorughout the world, but ONE shithead extremist who claims to be right-wing (and isn’t) and the media is all over everyone who isn’t leftist or Muslim and is basically doing exactly what that one shithead wanted them to do: move to take away more civil rights from their political opposition.

    I swear, it’s like the Left surrendered their brains and no longer have even a molecule’s worth of neurons firing between them. It’s like they got replaced with brain chips with pre-programmed lines and reactions that pretty much point all to REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    1. He didn’t actually claim to be right-wing, for what it’s worth.

      Dude’s a malignant troll, but here’s a copy-paste of how he described himself (every alternate paragraph is bolded, starting with the first, but that troll ain’t worth the formatting time).

      Take it for what it is worth, going off of your knowledge of trolls.

      Were/are you are “racist”?
      Yes,by definition, as I believe racial differences exist between peoples
      and they have a great impact on the way we shape our societies
      I also believe fertility rates are part of those racial differences and that the
      immigrants in our lands with high fertility must be forced out to ensure
      the existance of our race.
      So yes. I am a racist.
      Were/are you a “xenophobe”?\
      No, no culture scares me. I am only wary of those cultures with higher
      fertility rates replacing others.
      Were/are you a “islamophobe”?
      No, I am not afraid of islam, only that, due to its high fertility rates, it will
      grow to replace other peoples and faiths.
      Were/are you a nationalist?
      Yes, predominantly an ethno-nationalist(I place importance on the health
      and well being of my race above all else).
      Were/are you a nazi?
      No, actual nazis do not exist.They haven’t been a political or social force
      anywhere in the world for more than 60 years.
      Were/are you an anti-semite?
      No.A jew living in israel is no enemy of mine, so long as they do not seek
      to subvert or harm my people.
      Were/are you a neo-nazi?
      That is a very broad category of people, and the definition is fuzzy at
      best. So no, I don’t believe so.
      Were/are you a conservative?
      No, conservatism is corporatism in disguise, I want no part of it.
      Were/are you a christian?
      That is complicated.
      When I know, I will tell you.
      Were/are you a fascist?
      Yes. For once, the person that will be called a fascist, is an actual fascist. I
      am sure the journalists will love that.
      I mostly agree with Sir Oswald Mosley’s views and consider myself an
      Eco-fascist by nature.
      The nation with the closest political and social values to my own is the
      People’s Republic of China.
      Was there a political figure or party in history you most associate
      yourself with?
      Sir Oswald Mosley is the person from history closest to my own beliefs.
      Were/are you a “homophobe”?
      No, I simply do not care all that much what gay people do.As long as
      they are loyal to their people and place their peoples well being first, then
      I have no issues.
      Were/are you “right wing”?
      Depending on the definition, sure.
      Were/are you “left wing”?
      Depending on the definition, sure.
      Were/are you a socialist?
      Depending on the definition. Worker ownership of the means of
      production? It depends on who those workers are, their intents, who
      currently owns the means of production, their intents and who currently
      owns the state, and its intents.
      Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?
      As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a
      policy maker and leader? Dear god no.
      Were/are you a supporter of Brexit?
      Yes, though not for an official policy made. The truth is that eventually
      people must face the fact that it wasn’t a damn thing to do with the
      economy.That it was the British people firing back at mass immigration,
      cultural displacement and globalism, and that’s a great and wonderful
      Were/are you a supporter of Front National?
      No,they’re a party of milquetoast civic nationalist boomers, completely
      incapable of creating real change and with no actual viable plan to save
      their nation.
      By living in New Zealand, weren’t you an immigrant yourself?
      Yes, and it seems we immigrants seem to bring a whole host of issues.
      Nah, not really.An Australian living in New Zealand is much the same as
      an Austrian living in Bavaria. They aren’t going to ethnically replace the
      people, nor change the nations culture.They are the same people, they are
      the same culture.
      Are you intolerant?
      Sure. The last virtues of a dying nation are tolerance and apathy, and I
      want none of it.
      How did you develop/research/receive your views and beliefs?
      Over a great deal of time, from a great deal of places.
      From where did you receive/research/develop your beliefs?
      The internet, of course. You will not find the truth anywhere else.
      Is there a particular person that radicalized you the most?
      Yes, the person that has influenced me above all was Candace Owens.
      Each time she spoke I was stunned by her insights and her own views
      helped push me further and further into the belief of violence over
      meekness. Though I will have to disavow some of her beliefs, the
      extreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes.
      Were you taught violence and extremism by video
      Yes, Spyro the dragon 3 taught me ethno-nationalism. Fortnite trained me
      to be a killer and to floss on the corpses of my enemies.
      Did you always hold these views?
      No, when I was young I was a communist, then an anarchist and finally a
      libertarian before coming to be an eco-fascist.
      Who do you consider white?
      Those that are ethnically and culturally European.
      Who do you consider non-white?
      Those who are not ethnically and culturally European.
      Where your beliefs given to you by your family/friends/society etc?
      No. Those around my were the typical Australians, apathetic and for the
      most part apolitical, only truly showing motivation in matters of animal
      rights, environmentalism and taxation.
      Do you consider yourself a leader?
      No, just a partisan.

      1. I know he didn’t outright claim to be right-wing, just dropped enough names for the media to glom onto and blame non-Leftists with, because facts don’t matter. They don’t read past the ‘influenced by Candace Owens’ claim and ‘Trump’ – not even what he thought, just saw the name and boom, that’s it.

        Everything was a tissue of lies, and copypasta, and trigger words, and the Left and the media took a flying leap into the boiling cauldron of stupidity he cooked up for them and inhaled it like a drug addict having gone months without a fix. It had all the subtlety of a screaming maniac with a chainsaw, and they don’t care that they’re being manipulated in the least because in the short term it gives them what they want, or so they think.

            1. Ah, well, you might should aught to be pissed off. Troll did stuff to intentionally put “the right” in bad light. This fool is a Trolling Moby of grand magnitudes. Decided firearms over bombs to try to get the USA to pass stricter laws. Mentioned Trump et al, so the media would smear them. He’s played the media and leftoids like the devil playing a Strat. Scattered pea gravel as chicken feed, and the press thinks it has diamonds, gold, and juicy, juicy corn

              1. like the devil playing a Strat

                Satan plays the Stratocaster? I sort of thought of him as a Gibson guy, for some reason.

        1. EVERY “news outlet” that has claimed the NZ terrorist schmuck is “right wing” has forfeited ANY and ALL claims to be a genuine “new outlet.” They are nothing more than the Narrative’s anus, crapping all over the facts.

        2. I’ve partly been waiting for a chance to drop enough of a quote for people to be able to find the whole thing if they want.

          I only got a copy from someone who got a link from someone much more hooked in–the media got smart and hasn’t been putting out long enough quotes to find all the copies that have been put up.


          Fing media. They scream they want the New Zealand/Christchurch shooter’s manifesto suppressed, but they can’t resist reporting on it and end up just screaming in outrage that anybody doesn’t trust them lying about it, and trying to keep people from showing that they are repeating falsehoods.

          1. Yeah. Effing media indeed. Over on Twitter, a number of people pointed out that there were Islamic terrorist attacks on Catholic and Christian churches, and the media was silent because it happened in places like the Philippines and Nigeria, but all of a sudden, there’s an attack on a mosque in New Zealand, and omg we’re supposed to freak the hell out, suddenly condemn terrorist attacks (that the media didn’t condemn and whitewashed every time it was an Islamic terror attack, don’t blame all Muslims…) and blame right wingers, gamers, Trump supporters, and all criticism of Islam, and non-Lefties EVERYWHERE.

            The one in the Philippines was a bombing in the church, during Sunday mass, and a second bomb went off as first responders and military arrived. A common tactic in bombing churches, temples, synagogues and mosques in Islamic bombings – the last set being Muslim on Muslim cross-sectarian violence. And was pointed out, the media doesn’t report on this in the mainstream news because it happens so darned often, it’s hard for the media to care, and get people over in the West to care. The rest of the world is supposed to just accept this as the new normal.

            Honestly, given that, I’m not surprised at all that the NZ police took a while to respond. How were they supposed to know it wasn’t an Islamic on Islamic attack?

            1. We need to start crying Krystosphobia whenever such attacks occur and whenever nations attempt laws diminishing the free exercise of the Christian religion. Considering the behaviour of such as the LGBTQ advocates, Colorado Human Rights Commission, and other entities the term is much more accurate than any of the other phobias being denounced.

            2. I assumed it was either a different sect attacking the competition, or local victims doing something.

              Nope, it is the first European fascist internet troll attack.

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