External Conformity and Inner Truths

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I’m always surprised when I hear someone refer to me as a happy warrior (which happens about once a week.)

I’m not a happy warrior.  I try really hard to be a nice person.  I know my anger can cause a lot of harm to me and others, so I try to keep it in check, to the point of inducing depression to stop myself expressing it.

I’d prefer, by far, to live as so many female writers in the past, dreaming up nice stories and never pronouncing on politics.

Unfortunately I was born too late for that.  Even more unfortunately I was raised by a father who belonged in the Republic of Rome, when it comes to holding fast to a set of principles, and having a weird, inflexible idea of honor, particularly his own honor, and how he had to behave in an honorable manner.  (When I was little, and understood less of the world than I do even now, I thought dad was Roman, mom was Spanish and my brother was French.  In retrospect, I might have been right, in ways deeper than mere reality.)

My father believed everyone should be raised to be a gentleman of honor, genitals not withstanding, and he raised me that way.  (Yes, there are different female civic virtues.  Very different.  I learned that from his mom.)  And one thing a gentleman can’t do is let evil flourish under the sun, without attempting to fight it.

Which is why I was an anti-communist even when I was a — I know, Bob the Registered still thinks I am — soft liberal, which is the natural consequence of being raised in Europe.  In fact, those opinions — such as on gun control, say — changed through examining how these opinions HELPED communism.  To this day I feel icky if I have some opinions in common with the left, and I examine them extra hard.  (Though to be fair even when I agree with them on something, I neither agree on what it does to society, nor how it should be fixed.  So, there’s that.)

Why talk about this now?  Because every time I come across that “happy warrior” thing, I smile a little, because it’s so wrong.

I’m an unhappy warrior, who often triggers her auto-immune through anger and frustration.  But we weren’t put on this Earth to be easy and besides, they wouldn’t let me do the one thing I wanted to do in peace, without bringing politics into it.  So I fight.

In the same way, when I was young, stupid and an exchange student, I once heard my fellows talk when they thought I was asleep, and they all agreed I was a conventional, sheltered young Latin girl.  Something about “must have been raised in a convent.”  In fact, I was a young hellion, with acidic opinions and at the time had ideas of how things like the relationship between the sexes should be that would have made most of them not just blush but run and hide.

It took me a while to realize that the fact I was an introvert, and thought most of them were too dumb/young/conventional to have a true discussion/argument with meant I rarely said much, and what I said was usually of no great consequence, so externally I presented as they expected a nice Latin girl to present.

I think it was part of how people misjudged Cruz — tying in to what Amanda said last night — versus Beto.  You see, I’m 99.9% sure Cruz is one of us.  It’s not just the weird affect which would pass unnoticed in an sf/f con.  It’s weird things he lets drop, when he quotes Star Wars or the Princess Bride, for that matter.  I think he knows how weird his points of reference are, so he keeps quiet, so he’s not one of those “out there” sf/f people, who are, as everyone knows, crazy.

I think he should put on a costume and hit comicon.  Sure, pay attention to the costume so it’s nothing the left can pick on him for, but let people see him having fun.  He underestimates to what extent the geeks have taken over the culture.

But besides that, I think it’s also why we miss-perceived Trump.  At least I hope we did, and I hope my suspicion is right.

Because the left enforces conformity in areas — physical or professional, or even creative — that they control, a lot of us keep/kept under very deep cover, even going to the point of sometimes saying things that could be perceived as supporting lefty povs.  (Or writing. There’s a reason the Magical British Empire is still under revision.  It gets tiresome.)  OTOH every time you bow, every time you scrape.  Every time you’re forced to pretend to be something you’re not the resentment grows.

If I’m right, Trump was under deep cover, and now, having won a measure of power, he’s going to take revenge.  All the revenge.  Which suits me fight.  And I sympathize with.  If I’m ever in a position of power in my field, whatever that position is now, in the changed climate, it’s going to be interesting.

I never understood the left’s belief that if they stop opponents from talking, or even force opponents to behave as though they agreed with the left, the opposition will go away.

It leads me to believe either they’re incredibly shallow thinkers, or they think that any opposition is lack of information (they do. Hence the ubiquitous “educated yourself” from the indoctrinated, ill-educated left) OR they’re aliens and have no idea what people really are and think.

Sure, run us from the public sphere. Make our believing in your weird cult, or at least expressing outward belief, a condition of working or prospering in the areas you control, people will conform outwardly.  Sure, some of them, those who want to go along to get along, might even change their minds.

But there are many who will keep quiet and hate you all the harder for what you’re making them do: for making them complicit in evil.  And sooner or later they’ll get power.

Also, when they do, not only will those like them join them, but so will the go along to get along.  This is how you get black swans.  This is how people in Romania turned on their brutal leaders in the course of a day.

You can tell the left is no longer sure what hold they actually have on the country.  You can tell they know the counts are corrupt, because they, like us, are trying to read the tea leaves.

But because they’ve isolated themselves so thoroughly from who their opposition is and what they believe, preferring to view them instead through flawed Marxian lenses, their attempts are almost bizarrely strange.

Such as… there was some idiot saying there must be more of them than of us because more people did Yoga than watched Nascar.

Uh…. and?  I have never watched Nascar.  I’ve never watched any car racing, unless forced.  Just a total lack of interest. I’ve done yoga once or twice — it was a class in my high school.  In the seventies. In Portugal — though granted, I never stay with it, because it’s too woo-woo for my tastes (though one of the times I lost weight it was yoga that did it.)

The point is, what the heck does either of those have to do with believing in individual liberty, right to property, and the constitution of the united states?

And, at any rate, isn’t Nascar a regional thing?

Well, it has to do because in their hearts they KNOW we are all redneck hicks, and therefore we need to behave like redneck hicks.  In their minds, too, Yoga is new and daring and therefore lefty.  (Memo- Neither the left nor Yoga are new and daring.  In fact, they’re both conventional and mainstream.  I.e. you ARE the man.)

Why does this matter?

In 2008 we voted early (I was still not aware of the amazing levels of fraud) and so we voted in downtown Colorado Springs, early one morning.  I stood in line looking at all the people around me and going “hell, they’re all libs.”  You know, women with short hair, men with long hair, sloppy in their attire, etc.

Then I realized I presented more or less the same way.  I tend to forget to dye or cut my hair.  (I’ve been grey since 28 and right now the “time to stop dyeing” is “when I have first biological grandchild”.  Because it’s as good as any.) So I often have half-grey, long, and pulled into a mommy bun hair.  In the dark and in a hurry, I’d dressed in one of my Indian skirts and a peasant blouse.  And I had a bag with my artwork, and another with my pastels, because I was walking to art class after voting.

To anyone who watched I was one of them.

More and more I see the right making target acquisition errors that mirror the left and the left’s weird assumptions.

Does most of the right live rural?  Some, surely, though I know my share of farmers who are all for subsidies, my share of postmen in rural areas who are all for unions, my share of–  You get the point.

Are the cities/creative professions/educated people overwhelmingly leftist?

Oh, for fuck’s sake.  Seriously, guys.  The left might have a majority of those. MAYBE.  I was always shocked when I stepped out of line in sf/f and people in deep cover sent me support…. privately.  These are people who were way better than I at faking it, many of whom I thought were darlings of the left (many of whom WERE darlings of the left.)

The problem with the left suppressing dissenting opinion, is that a lot of people not only keep quiet but pretend.  To be allowed to do what they want, they have to.

And of course, vote fraud is easier in cities, so cities present a uniform lefty front.

But is it true?  BAH.

Don’t fall for the lies of the left or the enforced conformity they create.  You could be wrong about half or even a majority of city dwellers/creative people/young people/minorities/etc.

And if I may, if it comes to hell and high water, you guys are going to need US.  We know how to talk to the middle squishes, and we reassure them that the right are not all REALLY hicks.  And we know how to talk to furriners too, which will be needed in the future.

Yes, I am sure that if the rough music starts to play, I and others like me will be killed in red-on-red violence.  I tan, I’m urban (well, suburbanish now), I have an accent, and I speak in big words.  Depending on the day, I might or might not have pastels or watercolors on my fingers. The left thinks I naturally belong to them.  For our sins, so does a lot of the right.  And when the rough music plays no one stops and thinks. I’m not even trying to stop that.  It might be a reason I don’t want this to devolve to mass violence, but I also know there are worse things than mass violence.

But let’s suppose I’m lucky and escape that first impact. (I live in a semi-hidden suburb, judging by friends who have tried to find us and get confused.  And the neighbors are simpatico.  Guys, you’re going to need me. You’re going to need others like me. If for nothing else than you’re going to need shapers of ideas, people who make sure what gets passed to the next generation isn’t as crazy as what this generation has been taught.  Sure, you need me less than you need farmers, mechanics and cooks.  Weirdly, though, I can also cook and sew and in a pinch I’m a more than decent jack leg carpenter.  But I don’t think civilization is going to devolve to the point ONLY those are needed.  And I definitely don’t think they SHOULD.

Sure, the founding fathers were men with the practical skills of their time — farmers, and cobblers and the like — but they also had lawyers.  And almost every founding father was a man of the intellect and the mind.

Without it, the left, however many of them remain, will shape the future. They’ll just couch their ideas in a different way and have a go at the kids again. Because they have the words and can create the narrative.

Let me remind you that while national socialism (Germany excepted) is less lethal than international socialism, it’s still lethal, particularly to the human spirit, to innovation, to freedom and particularly to people like us who stick out.

Stop stereotyping us just as the left does.  Stop buying the stereotype.  Yes, this is also self-aimed.  I almost didn’t vote for Trump.  I bought the cover.  Many on our side still do which is something we need to fight.

The fact their stereotyping us is so powerful tells you the power of the narrative.  Be aware of it, but don’t buy it.

Oh, sure, if the rough music starts to play people like me are gone.  Most of them.  Depends on when it hits.  Like a tsunami, it’s not controllable and can’t really be planned for.

But if we are lucky beyond our deserts and this can be turned slowly, in debate and opinion, in daily work, in education, in words, in diplomacy, be aware the left is wrong about the opposition, as they’re wrong about almost everything.

We might — and will — find allies in the weirdest places.  Don’t be too trusting, (note I’m still not sure about Trump) but don’t write them out.

Remember external conformity is not conformity of thought.  Only a fool or a leftist (BIRM) believes that.

 

256 responses to “External Conformity and Inner Truths

  1. We’re all going to need to fly our Gadsden Flags, just so we get killed by the other side, not our own.

    The last brief discussion I had with a Lefty in my family I realized that he saw the same problems I did. But he thinks they got that bad by a different route than I see. And he thinks the solutions are more of what I think caused the problems in the first place.

    I almost wish for a crisis from outside, to force some realism into everyone’s head.

    • BobtheRegisterredFool

      Some things, maybe we are both partly right or both partly wrong about the path of causation or the path of solution. We’ll be better off being able to discuss things, like nerds arguing over minutia, without having one particular theory meaning that one participant is beyond the bounds of society.

      • Oh, yes.

        I’m not sure how to get there at all, though. How does one explain to someone with the specter or a great evil in their eye that you *do* care, and refuse to do more of what ends in horror and misery?

        Because not agreeing with the “solution” is shown as proof of being unable to even conceive of the “problem”. You’re supposed to enter into a state of sympathy with them… you know, vibrating at the same frequency, becoming attuned. And if you don’t, then that’s proof you’ve got no empathy. It’s very frustrating because the two are NOT the same thing.

        • I have some success with saying “Yes. I understand the impulse. But the solution you propose has been widely tried, and it doesn’t work. And the results have been bad enough that I don’t want to bet that ‘we can do it better’. So, can we try something else?”

          • “So how many more mass graves do you think y’all need to fill, before you decide that it’s enough experimenting with an obviously failed bullshit philosophy?”

            sort of OT, but I had to LOL today, they have NatGeo at the hospital room, and I had it running. One of the documentaries was about Mao, and a good section of it had to do with his being a user of women, and while he and his upper echelons expected to have the rest of the populace lead sexually restrained lives (to the point of trying to erase gendered clothing for the ordinary Chinese), the leaders had serial marriages, concubines and mistresses, and had easy access to sex on demand…

            • Oh, they needed *some* release for the horrible emotional stress they were under as they led the People to greatness. So why are you using insulting capitalistic words to describe the heroic sacrifices made by those loyal and idealistic workers who assisted them in this particular part of their glorious task?

              • And why do we cast judgment on their leaders’ sexual hypocrisy preferences? Those women are willingly offering themselves, they are! It’s not the Glorious Leaderfolk’s fault!

                (NatGeo had a… rather surprisingly critical documentary series on the leaders of Communism; Mao’s harems, four wives, and his cronies’ tendency towards serial divorces and mistresses… while the populace in general were expected to lead rather modest lives…)

    • Nope, the Left has declared the Gadsden flag to be a “hate symbol” equivalent to a swastika or what they think is “the Confederate flag.”

    • Anyone have a nice, dangerous, alien race to invade us so we can unite and defeat them?

      • I’d settle for the not-so-dangerous aliens from Turtledove’s “Road Not Taken.” At least then we’d have the tech to get off this progressive-infested rock.

        • Or the other ones (don’t remember the name of the story) who came down by stealth, looked around, basically said, “Holy shit, the beings who live here are too dangerous!” and left.

          Assuming, of course, that we could catch them before they got away.

        • we already had our attack on us (not by an aliens. it was on 9 11 01. brought us together for about 12 hours. (not really, that was about as long as the left could fake it.) the left wants to control everything. witch would destroy everything. if they can not control, they will try to destroy everything.
          Reagan said that it would take alien invasion to bring our country together. (or words to that effect). he was wrong. the left supports the people that destroyed the world trade towers. they support the alien invasion coming up from Mexico. and if a non human alien invasion (from outer space) showed up to destroy all humans, they would support them.
          The left is HATE. they hate the right. they hate nuetrals. they hate the people on the left. they hate themselves.

    • I have recently seen an atheist literally and repeatedly say that the massacres of Communism were not atheistic but Christian. (He thought that by calling them altruists he could lump them together. And he blamed all Christians for the deaths and bragged of his innocence.)

      • “Against human stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.”

        • Hopefully none of us are stupid enough to think that you will ever be able to live under the same civil contract with that person. They will never honor it.

  2. If I’m right, Trump was under deep cover

    If so, he had me fooled. Which, perhaps, isn’t that difficult. I don’t know. But the other hypothesis is that he was what he has long presented as, a “deal maker” who would have been happy to “make a deal.” Only they went full TDS, painting him as some kind of ultimate evil, not even willing to begin to talk a deal. And all of that drove him right into the other camp.

    Either way, I’ll take the victory I can from it.

    • When I listened to Hannity (his tolerance for progressives and the win-an-argument-by-never-shutting-up far exceeds my own), Trump was a regular guest, before any rumblings about a run for POTUS. Still, you got the sense that the man knew what the country needed and that *somebody* was going to have to do it. Not sure if Trump realized it was going to be him…

      • During the campaign I went as far back on Trump interviews as could be easily found… and discovered he’d been saying the very same things for 35+ years. And that he’d started seriously considering this President thing about 25 years ago, as (paraphrased) “they’re not doing the job, and someone’s got to step up. Don’t want to, but come to it, I will.” I think 2016 finally reached the point where he could no longer sit idly by, and could see a way to win that might not have been there before. Not a guy who makes snap decisions, despite appearances.

        Also learned that his childhood pastor was Norman Vincent Peale.

    • You think he could get building permits in NY City if he didn’t “read” as “our kind”?

        • He projected the image of the classic hard nosed developer who was also a “limousine liberal” (thereby excusing the qualms the left had about his hard-nosed tactics (his style of negotiation has always been to play hardball to get the best deal possible, yes he makes deals, but he tries to get the best deal possible through taking firm “I wan’t everything” stances). The left excuses a lot if one gives financial and verbal support to “the right causes” and he did that. I am sure a good part of that is if you want to do business in New York City, you really have no choice. This was less successful in Atlantic City, where Trump was always viewed as an interloper rather than one of their own, and got treated accordingly.

  3. You see, I’m 99.9% sure Cruz is one of us.

    That could very well be what initially put me slightly off Ted Cruz when I first saw him – it’s that the persona that sometimes comes across from him in set-piece stump speeches was the too polished assumed Politician persona that he’s learned to present, which for me veers towards a used-car-sales. The “I can see the edge of that assumed persona” vibe that my odd pattern-recognition superpower picks up just grates a bit, but now I understand it. I’m sure there were visible edges to the persona I learned to present when I worked in semiconductor cubical-land, but in the world of engineering there are lots of odds.

    But look when Cruz is debating, or skillfully working a Senate hearing, or making a floor speech in the Senate, or doing a straight interview, or just talking to people – what’s visible is the quick intellect, the deep knowledge base, and the passion for this country that made him my preferred choice back in 2016.

    The car-sales vibe is because it is an assumed persona, scrubbed and polished and refined for the normals, but odds can see the edges. It’s what that assumed persona overlays that put him at the top of my list.

    • Not sure it’s just the odds that see around the edges. I’ve been singing Cruz’s praises for years and some of my friends watch him and are like ‘eh, I’d never vote for him, something’s off’.

      Interestingly, most of these are also people that are refusing to see beyond Trump’s tweets to look at his actions.

      • Cruz was my first choice in the primaries. When he gives stump speeches, he is very forced in his formality and posturing, and is definitely trying to project a particular personality that appears to be more “establishment” than it really is, even though the substance of his views are much more libertarian minded than the establishment. When he is engaged in genuine, unscripted debates, however, he is very articulate, concise, forceful speaker who is very able to shred and verbally eviscerate leftist dogma and policies.

        • I have tried to get my friends to watch more, but they’re in the ‘my mind is made up’ zone and have no interest in changing their opinion.

          I was hoping that Perry would do better this time around. Cruz was my 2nd favorite and I was happy with how well he did. Not sure he could have beaten Hillary though. Except I still wonder how much of it was Trump and how much of it was Hillary.

          There are times I’m not sure I understand the American people anymore than some of the inside the beltway folks.

          • I am still waiting for the Democrats to try what they attempted in Texas against Perry, which was to claim that the exercise of the absolute, unfettered right to veto legislation was unconstitutional because of “improper motive”. The Democratic Party;s effort to nullify lawful actions they don;t like started well before Trump got elected.

            • Already have. It’s the entire argument against ending daca via eo.

            • That has been something I’ve been wondering about, are there enough squishy RINOs left that the Democrats could actually manage to get them to vote with them? Adding Romney has not exactly inspired me with confidence that the GOP majority is more than an illusion.

              • Currently three known gains and two losses. Floriduh still up in air since all the carp. Romney just replacing Flake. If that goes to Scott Reps will be +1 in senate from before so I think that be 52/48 so can have two peel off and still pass. Otherwise it’s no change.

                • Collins, Murkowski, and Romney. That’s enough to bring the Dems to 51.

                  Not so much worried about what the Republicans might pass, it’s more what the Dems can get them to help ram through. I’ve got a feeling most of what’s going to be coming out of the House the next year is mostly going to be a whole lot of hot air and the stench of BS. Stockyard grade!

                  • Again key is the confirmations. Anything legislative mischief, Trump can veto, which does not get overridden. I see most likely outcome is trading concessions on legislation for votes on confirmations from the RINO faction in the Senate

                    • At this point I’m pretty sure the Democrats have thoroughly poisoned the well of getting Trump to help them pass anything. Even the things he’s said that have concerned me ended up with it being more of a bait kind of statement to show what the Left really wanted than a serious proposal.

                      I hope you’re right. We’re at a place now I don’t see 2 years of a ‘do nothing Congress’ actually being all that bad. Well, except for voter fraud and border security. With more of the Left dependent on Government I’m not exactly seeing them screw over their constituents for 2 years as an entirely bad thing.

                      I don’t see them being able to get much passed that’s going to hamper the economy. Though I also admit I might be being a bit optimistic about that.

                  • I think Collins is going to be a tough sell for the Democrats given that the Democrats effectively endorsed the efforts to harass her during the Kavanaugh hearings and were utterly silent about the threats she received. T

    • Yep, I think our esteemed hostess is right; Cruz is just much better at playing Normal than most of us, but fellow Odds see that as off-kilter. And that may be why he seems a bit too slick-willie …. until he’s really into something: Watched him questioning Zuck, and that was a different Cruz entirely; this was the real man intent on a target with all guns firing, not the ineffectual politician playing the game as expected.

      And I was like… Hmmm. We’ve underestimated this guy, even when we were rootin’ for him in 2016.

      • I think that’s where the “Cruz has a bad personality, vote for Beto” stuff came from. They see him trying to pass as a “normal” coastal Republican or ordinary politician, but get the odd read and assume he’s a cold, strange jerk. Because the Odds they’ve met are cold, strange jerks (Sheldon without the charm, as one person told me), and so he must be too, based on the conflicting vibes.

    • The problem is that Cruz’s public persona is too much what people are familiar with. If he were – as was suggested up top – to show up at Comicon in a costume, then he’d get attacked as pandering. And the reason why he’d be attacked is because appearing like that is completely at odds with the public persona that everyone has grown accustomed to.

      • That’s a long-standing PR problem. Once people are convinced you’re a phony, anything you do to try to look more authentic will only be interpreted as making you look less authentic.

    • Thing is, Cruz is one of us, in a lot of ways, which is why I’d rather not have him as POTUS.
      People like us belong on SCOTUS, or keeping the bureaucrats in line.

      • Mixed feelings on that. Cruz would be awesome on the Supreme Court. However, I am worried that the Reps would screw up selecting replacement and the following special election and we would lose another Republican Senator, the way Alabama went after Sessions became AG (and went on to prove that he should have stayed in the Senate).

    • Regarding Cruz: I think he should put on a costume and hit comicon. 

      Short of a full fur suit or a character that calls for extreme appliances in the face make-up I doubt it would be safe.  Comicon is show with a major industry presence, with lots of Hollywood liberals. Too many in that crowd would threaten to lynch him if they recognized him.  (I always wondered how Adam Baldwin manages it.) 

      He would do better to look for a con in an area with a high military population. 

      • Well, I’m SURE he’d be very welcome at Liberty con. 😀

      • They’d wet themselves if Baldwin looked at them funny? I’d also give him odds against pretty much any 3 Antifa at the same time. Plus, as a fan, if you saw him getting attacked and had a chance to beat the snot out of some Antifa clowns, would you really pass it up?

      • I always wondered how Adam Baldwin manages it.

        *stands on a chair so she can hold her hand high enough*
        By being this tall, and-
        *spreads hands out pretty far*
        -this wide across the shoulders?

        • That and the self confidence that comes with knowing that, taken all together, they’ve almost as much moxie as a wet paper bag. Compared to that even the average Joe might shine a bit. And A.B.’s a bit more than average.

          • That he usually plays insane and violent guys (and does a REALLY GOOD JOB OF IT) probably has more to do with it.

            Kind of like how Kevin Sorbo hasn’t had any big, violent outbreaks even though he’s a solidly normal dad type– Christian but not very theologically geeky, right of center but very gentle about it….and he’s a freaking MASTER of the “you are seriously going to make me fight you? Really? But I just got comfortable!” look.

        • Smiles warmly as I imagine you up there on the chair … and the puzzled look on the faces of the various children around you.

      • There was a recent picture of Cruz from election night in which I was struck by how similar his pose looked this famous SF painting:


        It has the con-attending advantage of being armored …

        • That painting was used as the cover of Queen’s “News of the World” album and I suspect that is where most people will recognize it from (great album by a great band).

      • If you were an antifascist creepoid, would *you* want to take on Jayne Cobb?

  4. Though to be fair even when I agree with them on something, I neither agree on what it does to society, nor how it should be fixed. So, there’s that.

    In my experience, when we agree it is usually as a result of materially different routes to that position, or because of significantly different definitions of key terms.

    They say racism is bad because all race-based discrimination is invidious. I say racism is bad because race is an illusion, a construct, an arbitrary means of distinguishing group cultural values.

    The say education is critically important, and I agree — but our definitions of “educations” vary as greatly as do our meanings for gun control (my definition entails putting three shots out of three at twenty-five paces through a space that can be covered by a quarter.)

    • It can also be a prioritization issue. I once had a discussion with someone where we determined that he put “safety” over “liberty”, and I did the reverse. (Partly because I don’t think that perfect safety is achievable or a worthwhile goal.)

      • Zero liberty means you have no control over how much safety you have.
        Absolute liberty means you have 100% control over how much safety you have; even if that’s only a 50/50 chance of being safe.

        • Pretty much. I think safety is a pretty little illusion suitable for children and the slow-witted, though. Perhaps not even then (farm kid. Such places are not “safe,” but you can get by without maiming yourself assuming you’ve a thimbleful of common sense).

          • The “safety” issues are generally disagreements about managing risks, which in all honesty cannot be handled individually. There’s a reason my mom worries about us driving, and it’s not because we cause a hazard…..

            • I have found that maintaining a proper following distance has kept me out of a number of accidents. (As in, I could see the behavior far enough ahead to avoid it, including the time a car hit the barrier and flipped about 200 feet in front of me.) That and learning to read the “body language” of drivers. Most people telegraph their moves, even when they’re not using their indicator lights like they should.

              • Yeah, driving like I have bad brakes and no acceleration ability has saved my bacon many times, even when it put me off the road– but that is with the group-risk-management, AKA safety measure, of traffic laws and people to enforce them. (if only they’d enforce signal laws. If only cops remembered they HAVE signals more often….)

                My reactions aren’t good enough to do anything if the idiot doing LudicrousSpeed hits his wheel wrong and slams into my car. I know because I’ve had them zip past me and they’re past by the time I figure out what the strange noise is. And I’ve been on the wrong side of someone in a hurry driving down the middle of a winding, country road because “nobody” is there, so you don’t have to worry about blind corners or “room for other vehicles.”

                I’ve helped pick up what’s left when they came around those corners and hit an animal.

                So it’s a balancing act of group risk management vs pestering people with rules that are totally ignored by those who need to be told “stop being an idiot.”

                • You mean the “holy carp, where did that come from? Someone really wants to buy a ticket!” ???

                  What’s really bad is, other than far north, we only have 2 lane freeways, at best. Plus certain parts of the day, & some days “just because”, on the Beltline (parking lot), they go screaming by only to slam on breaks, because they are not going screaming by anything.

                  What really surprises me is why anyone would want to speed on Delta, Beltline, 126, or I-5, through town. Pretty sure the city, state, & county, motorcycle pairs, compete to see how many tickets each pair can hand out. Oregon doesn’t have the roving traffic patrols that Washington* utilizes, but they should.

                  *More than one story out of Washington of someone getting a ticket, figured after the cop was out of sight, speed again, only to get caught by the saturated patrol … it is great!!!

              • The “body language” thing needs to be emphasized– my mom’s biggest gripe about carseat laws is that the “no sitting in front before you’re a teen” means that the kids never get to observe other drivers.

                My nine year old is now able to recognize “that car is doing something wrong,” and our seven year old will gravely identify “that car is being an idiot” with about 75% accuracy. (Things like “driving off the side of the road to zip up ahead and cut in at the red light.”

                • I have a tendency to mutter about stupid drivers whenever I see them, so with any luck the kids are picking up on what I see as bad driving practices. At least car seats mean they have a better view out the windows.

                  • If I’m not growling, it’s usually a BAD thing– although I try to praise smart stuff, too.

                    The seats aren’t an issue, it’s the rules like “everyone under 13 must use one, unless they are X tall or Y heavy,” and “no car seats allowed in the front,” and “no-one under 13 allowed in the front unless there is no other seat.”
                    #WashingtonState

                    • Washington State?

                      ‘Absolutely NOT! I drive a Prius.’

                      • After trying repeatedly on Sept. 12 to pull over a Toyota Prius driving with expired tags on I-5 near Marysville, Washington, a Washington State Patrol officer finally caught up to the car at an intersection and verbally instructed the unnamed 42-year-old woman driver to pull over, reported the Everett Daily Herald. “I will not. I drive a Prius,” was the woman’s reply. The officer then asked her to step out of the vehicle, which she also refused to do, so he forced her out. “I will own your bank account,” she told him. “I will own your house.” When he asked her name, she responded, “None of your business.” Finally, she was arrested for failing to obey instructions, failing to identify herself and obstruction. [Herald.net, 9/16/2018]

                    • *sigh* Not surprising.

                • Back when the Daughtorial Unit was approaching driving age, Beloved Spouse and I adopted the practice of, in lieu f screaming, describing to her the problematic behaviours of miserable rotten bastard offspring of deranged ,,,, ahem: other drivers. This had the salutary effect of instructing her on why certain behaviours were ill-advised and of reducing our blood pressure stress.

                  Besides, In almost fifty years of driving I have yet to observe a single other driver improve their driving as a result of my calling down upon them the wrath of Heaven.

                  • I talk to the other drivers– in a familiar but fairly polite manner, ie, “why are you doing that? You know you’re going to take the next exit.” “The gas is the one on the right, you need it to pass.” “Well, you did use your turn signal, but it’s customary to turn it on before you’re in the other lane, not when you only have one tire in the prior one.”

                    My brother declared that habit to be “road rage.”

                    Said brother also thinks that sitting in the slow lane, with cruise control set to the speed limit, and passing 90% of the traffic that way (the other 10% is people ACTUALLY USING THE SLOW LANE, who I carefully and legally pass, usually without turning off cruise control) is “problematic” and “illegal.”
                    He stopped talking to me for about an hour when I pointed at the guy in the fast lane, who we’d passed four times on I think a four lane highway, who was the only other car in sight– and I asked if that meant that he could stop all of traffic by sitting in the wrong lane.
                    It takes a LOT to make him stop talking.

                • Yep. Watching “the body language” of other drivers is … educational. My father used to mutter about “accidents looking for a place to happen” whenever he spotted one of those.
                  Just this last weekend, when the Daughter Unit and I were coming home from the last market event, we overtook one of those. Idiot – first, whilst driving down the access road, he threw a soft-drink cup with some ice in it out the drivers’ side window! Then – a very weird swerve-and-wiggle.
                  “Oh, g*d,” sayeth the Daughter Unit. “Drunk!” even though it was only about 4 PM. Said car turned off onto the street which eventually led to our subdivision. We overtook very carefully, and went home by the most direct way, looking into the mirrors all the time.
                  An accident looking for a place to happen.

            • William O. B'Livion

              > The “safety” issues are generally disagreements about managing risks,

              It’s probably more accurate to say disagreements about safety are where we draw the line between publicly managing risk (via government or whatever) or privately managing it.

              > which in all honesty cannot be handled individually.

              Huh?

      • The only safety is in liberty. Milton Friedman said (as usual, paraphrased from memory): “A society that favors equality over freedom will have little of either while a society that favors freedom over equality will have a great measure of both.” I propose that the same thing applies in comparing freedom and safety. A society that favors safety over freedom will have little of either while a society that favors freedom over safety will have a great deal of both.

        https://thewriterinblack.com/2018/03/26/freedom-or-safety/

        • “To minimize suffering and to maximize security were natural and proper ends of society and Caesar. But then they became the only ends, somehow, and the only basis of law—a perversion. Inevitably, then, in seeking only them, we found only their opposites: maximum suffering and minimum security.”

          –Walter Miller, A Canticle for Leibowitz

    • “They say racism is bad because all race-based discrimination is invidious. I say racism is bad because race is an illusion, a construct, an arbitrary means of distinguishing group cultural values.”

      You do realize that you just explained why race-based discrimination is invidious.

      • Not quite– recognizing that “race” is not objectively real, it’s a mix of a bunch of patterns of appearance and behavior, you can start paying attention to the signal rather than the noise. What some racists of darker tint call “acting white,” for example. So instead of pretending that Thomas Sowell, Michael Dorn (Worf) and a Michael Brown redux (he’s on the left*) are the same, you go down a mental list.
        Grooming, style (Michael Dorn in a suit is going to have a much different weight than Michael Dorn dressed like he wishes to emulate thug-culture), posture, company (is he surrounded by same age, same tint, similarly thug inspired styling fellows? Is the scent of body spray causing house plants to wilt? Probably a problem.) and the never to be discounted “I can’t put a finger on it, but there’s something wrong here.”

        Any of them, wearing a t-shirt with Deadpool on a unicorn under a rainbow, jeans and sneakers, alone, small group or large mixed group, without any things to ring alarm bells? Most likely OK.

        *only slightly tongue-in-cheek, given the coverage of that shooting

    • William O. B'Livion

      > an arbitrary means of distinguishing group cultural values.

      Race has nothing to do with cultural values.

      I saw a post from some blogger (Thought it was West Hunter but I can’t find the quote) that was really interesting, he said something to the effect that race was a collection of heritable traits you were interested in”.

      There *are* distinct heritable differences between ancestral groups, and those things *do* matter, especially in medicine.

      • Race has nothing to do with cultural values.

        Sure it does– they’re both passed through family groups.

        That’s why it’s not very effective to identify– kind of like relatives out past, oh, three generations. Closer, and there’s some folks Everyone Knows are not suited to be trusted. Further…and the family “culture” is much weaker, higher chance of shared assumptions having slipped.

        • William O. B'Livion

          > > Race has nothing to do with cultural values.

          > Sure it does– they’re both passed through family groups.

          Race is not passed through *family* it’s passed through *genes*. This is generally the same thing, but not often enough to be sufficient. Also over time cultural changes can happen within a race and you get *significantly* distinct cultural differences within a race.

          There are more distinct ethnic groups (culture) than racial groups.

          There are people of one race raised by people of another race. They (generally) take on the ethnicity of the parents (if adopted early enough).

          Swedish and French culture are dramatically different, yet both are the same race.

          Ditto Nigerians and S. Africans.

      • There *are* distinct heritable differences between ancestral groups, and those things *do* matter, especially in medicine.

        Incidentally, that isn’t race, unless one goes for the one-drop rule. Sickle-Cell is a famous example of one, and some of the folks with that have it don’t look in the least bit African. (Say, the famous example of the kid finding out he has it in boot camp, much to his family’s shame because race.)

        • William O. B'Livion

          It absolutely *is* race, if you treat race as a collection of traits that have a tendency to be found together.

          People of SSA descent are MUCH more likely to have vitamin D deficiencies in advanced countries. People of Northern European ancestry are more likely to get melanoma–22 *TIMES* more likely than those who’s ancestry is in SSA.

          You find things like this all over the place.

          If you select out one single trait (sickle-cell, wide nostrils etc.) then because of human nature you’re going to get migration of specific genetic traits spreading wide.

          Hell, Northern Europeans have what 2 to 5 percent Neanderthal DNA? and some small percentage of Denisovan, depending on ancestry?

          • It absolutely *is* race, if you treat race as a collection of traits that have a tendency to be found together.

            Except that isn’t how “race” is treated.

            It’s basically appearance.

            Which is how the famous “identical twins that are different races” can exist. (it gets really eye-popping when they groom and dress to emphasize what “race” each is supposed to be)

  5. “I never understood the left’s belief that if they stop opponents from talking, or even force opponents to behave as though they agreed with the left, the opposition will go away.”

    Back when people talked about what freedom of speech was for, this was a very open and assumed foundational concept. We rolled our eyes at European speech laws or people who thought some ideologies, like communism, should be illegal. Everyone KNEW that making it illegal to deny the holocaust or outlawing a political party didn’t make the crazy people go away. It affirmed to them that they were on-to-something and would inevitably increase their numbers.

    We ALL knew that. Left and Right and Middle.

    I won’t promise that everyone acted like that over their own pet issue, but it wasn’t a concept that was disputed.

    • Yeah, “Hate Speech.” The “Oh, that free speech concept only applies to approved speech” position is not reconcilable with a free society. For a basic litmus test, that’s a good candidate for me.

      • Or it only applies to *important* speech and *my* speech and *my* causes are important. *Your* speech and *your* causes are harmful and damaging and don’t count.

        Because no one who ever tried to suppress ideas or oppress causes in the history of the universe EVER did it because they felt that those ideas and causes were harmful or damaging.

        Ha! Here’s one. Why is it *legal* to be an anti-vacc’er? Children are literally *dying*. I see push back from all sides on the issue but I don’t see calls to actually criminalize this case of speech that can be shown, very objectively, to kill people. Personally, I’d like to keep it in the open, but for those people with selective notions about what free speech applies to, why is this case with confirmed (and growing) deaths not at the forefront of anti-free-speech ideologies? I mean, other than there being no *political power* involved.

        Ugh… and now I’m composing the argument in my head about how without *power* there can’t be hate, so it’s not equivalent no matter that babies die of stuff no American has died of since before I was born. Intersectionalist ideology is a cancerous tumor.

        • Anti-vaxx is my trigger point*, and I still won’t call for them to be suppressed. Mocked, yes. Disallowed certain public monies (like public school, unless there’s a legitimate medical reason to not vaccinate), certainly. But shut up? Nope, I’d prefer their crazy out where I can see it.

          *For reasons including close family members and friends with incomplete immune systems, a working knowledge of history, and an understanding of how statistics work.

          • They need to apply basic science to schools, not require vaccines to attend– that means getting rid of attendance laws/encouragements to send kids to school while sick, and having “vulnerable persons” quarantine where NOBODY who doesn’t have immunities is supposed to be at school.

            That right there would seriously improve community health, which is the whole argument for required vaccines.

            It is seriously amazing how my husband, with six kids, only ever gets “the bug that is going around” from WORK, while most of the folks at work get it from their grandkids. Because basic quarantine procedure actually gets applied for home schooling, so the exposure is closer to normal social situations than sitting cheek-to-jowl with dozens of infection vectors.

            • First thing that supposed to happen in a pandemic situation is to close the schools.

              • They hardly ever do, though. I know of exactly one situation where they did– and that was because too many teachers got sick. (German Measles, I think– up in Washington state, my mom refused to let us come over to visit and wouldn’t come visit us because I was pregnant at the time.)

                They’ll send home pages of notes about how there’s a known big outbreak…and then threaten to take you to court if you keep your known to have no immunity child at home, much less just “hm, I suspect she could be vulnerable, I won’t put her in a known risk for infection area.”

                I think the sticking point is that they don’t get as much cash if you don’t send your kid in, and to hell with actually trying to keep people from getting sick.

                • This. That and no longer allowing parents to space out the vaccine load on their children (as I did).

                  Even the autism thing could be dealt with by allowing nervous nellies (who may have good reason to consider their kids high risk) to wait until the munchkins are older and clearly neurologically fine before vaccinating.

                  Anti-anti vaxxers enable irrationality because they make vaccinating sound like a con job.

            • William O. B'Livion

              > They need to apply basic science to schools, not require vaccines to attend

              Basic science says you vaccinate children against certain diseases. Some diseases are communicable before symptoms start to show. Some diseases move fast enough that you are starting to feel icky at 0730 when your parents kick you out the door, and by 9 you’re running fever and shedding viruses. Some diseases are communicable after your symptoms disappear.

              Basic science says that vaccines are not 100 percent effective, and it is only by vaccinating the whole “herd” you do confer immunity.

              Yes, parents SHOULD keep their children home when sick. But to do that they have to either be a stay at home mom, or have to be able to take the time off work. When someone who barely makes enough money has a choice between deciding their child is sick, and making a days pay which way are they going to lean?

              And you know how the Proglodytes are going to respond to that–they’ll want government programs etc.

              • Is it a cold or is it Whooping Cough? I brought it home from work. Kid got it, but after 10 days the “cold” wasn’t any better, so took kid to doctor (of coarse mom was still coughing …). Yep, not a cold. Whooping Cough.

                BOTH of us were current on vaccinations, the kid more so (I was closer to the 10 year expiration period); his booster was applied at his pre middle school physical (age 11), the prior year.

                Since before we went to the doctor, we thought it was a cold, as long as he wasn’t running a fever, he went to school. School called if he started running a fever (sent note), he never ran one.

                Whooping Cough is one of those that is contagious before symptoms show, not contagious after about 10 days, despite continuing of symptoms. Antibiotics MIGHT help if applied before symptoms appear … at least that is what I remember being told.

                We coughed for weeks. It hurt from head to toe to cough. NOT fun. A baby or toddler or sick elder, OMG …

                Since this happened, I heard of people who have to get Whooping Cough boosters every 3 years, & that isn’t a guarantee they won’t still get it.

              • Basic science says you vaccinate children against certain diseases.

                No, that is a judgement.
                If science said that it happened, it wouldn’t be a policy discussion because that would be a description of the observable state of fact.

                Basic science says that vaccines are not 100 percent effective, and it is only by vaccinating the whole “herd” you do confer immunity.

                Doesn’t work that way.
                Vaccinating the whole herd can limit how quickly it is spread– but it cannot replace isolating known sick animals until full recovery.
                This is basic animal husbandry.

                When someone who barely makes enough money has a choice between deciding their child is sick, and making a days pay which way are they going to lean?

                That some people use public schools as daycare has what to do with policies requiring sick children to be at school unless they’ve first been dragged to a doctor?
                Or schools failing to identify “we have a flu outbreak; for public health, nobody without an immunity is allowed to attend until it is over.”

                And you know how the Proglodytes are going to respond to that–they’ll want government programs etc.

                As opposed to any other time?
                The current gov’t system does not work, and actually harms the declared motive for it, while walking on parental prerogative and STILL exposing vulnerable children to cesspools of disease, besides putting any family members at risk.

            • Parents who use the school as daycare won’t care if the truant officer won’t go after them.

            • “encouragements to send kids to school while sick,”

              That’s called “dropping the kids off at daycare”, and you’ll have to adopt Californication-style rules saying that businesses must allow at least unpaid leave time on a whim, and not count that as lost productivity, and…..

              In all seriousness, if the kids have to be watched over, who’s going to do it while both parents are at work, and that’s assuming there’s a both? Without reforming the underlying issues (which is going to cost money and liberty), all you will do is create another unenforceable law which will be enforced against whoever pisses off a bureaucrat.

              • Removing the ability of schools to punish parents who keep their kids home when they’re sick is “creating an unenforceable law”?

                ******

                For the required vaccines– if it’s serious enough that we already have laws about it, it’s serious enough to shut down the school to anybody who doesn’t have immunity.

          • Anti-Vaxer’s. Yes one of my trigger points too. My response is always “You WANT your kid to die?” or “be affected for life.” or “cause of the murder of another child?” ending with “You are Crazy Nuts!”

            I’ve had the locally common except polio & small pox (vaccines were available) … mumps, chicken pox, measles (both types), scarlet fever, whooping cough (at least twice), & the flu, more times than I can count. I know the consequences of passing on measles to the unsuspecting & vulnerable. Old enough that vaccines weren’t available.

            I was less than 8 when I had a run in with all of the above. I’m over 60 now & I remember them being not fun. Something I won’t wish on my worst enemy, ever, let alone my child, if I had any choice in the option.

            The only thing I’ve had since a vaccine was available was Flu (because vaccine not 100% preventive) & whooping cough, which I was suppose to have been covered on. Whooping cough as an adult is so not fun.

            • Whooping cough is the least effective of the vaccines, which is why I know several people who were vaccinated and who got it (and also why they encourage you to re-up so often.) It’s hard to explain this to anti-vaxx types in a way that they don’t take as “vaccine is totally ineffective” instead of “we need as close to 100% vaccine coverage as possible because it’s less effective.”

              • Try either the idea of it wearing out, or of whooping cough being extra-sneaky– which fits with the symptoms, actually.

                If the immune system isn’t kept on high alert, it can sneak in.

                I’ve had a lot of luck getting truly anti-vax folks to consider it by not using the anti-anti-vaxx metaphors or arguments. I swear, Bryan Suits on KFI is pretty good on a lot of stuff, but he’s so bone ignorant about vaccination that it makes me turn the show off. Freaking magical thinking…..

                • I have living examples around me of people who need herd immunity. Three of the four people I know who had it are in the same family (family susceptibility and asthma, oh yes)!

                  I’ve been explaining how vaccines work to my kids every year, especially when we get the flu vaccine. My eldest is ten. I hope they’ll be thoroughly understanding of how silly anti-vaxx logic is by the time they’re on their own.

      • And of course “hate speech” is any speech that they don’t like, i.e. speech that does not perfectly conform to leftist orthodoxy. It started on college campuses and has worked its way into broader society, the same way Mao’s Cultural Revolution did. I have dubbed what is going on “Mao’s Cultural Revolution Redux”.

        A good place to see how they are pushing the Maoist Red Guard effort to compel orthodoxy is The College Fix website, and if one goes back to the archives, one can see how a lot of the nonsense that has been taking place on campus has no worked its way into society at large. The college administrators, largely people who are either themselves supporters of Maoist style communism or its Soviet cousin, or are terrified to say anything which runs afoul of the leftist mob, actively push Maoist style punishment.

        https://www.thecollegefix.com/student-diversity-officials-promise-impeachment-of-vp-who-wrote-illegal-aliens/

        The left has made it clear that their goal is full totalitarian control of speech and thought, and they don’t care how many people they destroy to do so.

        • It is all contained in that classic American folk song:

          Home, home of deranged,
          Where the wolf and the grizzly play,
          Where seldom is heard a discouraging word,
          And the climate is warming today.

  6. BobtheRegisterredFool

    I define political enemy so widely that I count myself, because I have views that I am conflicted over. Joining a political coalition for a particular purpose is weighing my political goals against the options, and making a trade off compromise.

    At times I notice circles of political coalition. Like a registered Democrat with mostly leftwing views might still be an ally against a certain form of barbarism, because despite the religion he is culturally American and does not assume that his political enemies should be murdered. That might be a wide circle, with minimal consensus, but still a significant consensus. There are smaller circles with more consensus, which are probably where political aims ought to be.

    As for the question of whether Sarah or I am further to the right, I still feel I have some grounds for arguing it the way I have. On the other hand, I have policy dreams where the alternatives that Sarah prefers are more in keeping with precedent, hence more conservative.

  7. The Left may have the academies, but they don’t have the words.

    Don’t make the same mistake they do, in assuming that the “less-educated rednecks” won’t be able to see through the big words.

    • I don’t. And it’s not a matter of education. I’ve been seeing a lot of people talking about how “people who work with their hands are our people, everyone else isn’t.” Some other people are. And because we can speak to the left, we DO have a slight edge on making narratives they’ll buy.

    • “Hey, those red areas are almost all rural. That must mean nobody there is smart enough to vote blue!”

      “No, it means they know what b***s*** smells like and won’t vote for it.”

      [Experiences may vary, yes. Various types can be found various places, but sometimes it can take a bit of looking.]

      • Not sure if it’s the same now, but I remember hearing how rural schools were providing a much better education than urban schools for K-12.

      • Given the smells of cow manure and cut hay, versus the smells of New York City; I’ll take the cows and the pastures.

        • Thanks for the laugh! Between the smells of the city and constant noise, I’m working on trying to figure out how I can afford a place about 5 miles outside of town. Just need a good internet connection and enough space for a nice home gym.

          • Eh. Smells of the country bother me more/as much. I find cows lowing at sunset soothing, though.

            • Just have to make sure you don’t buy near pig farmers 🙂 Mostly it smells like grass and trees. Though we did have the advantage that most of the smells from our neighbors were usually carried by the wind in the other direction.

              When I go back to the farm to sleep it’s actually difficult the first few nights because it is so quiet. We might have 3 cars drive by after midnight. It’s also far enough out of most major flight lines that you rarely hear or see planes.

            • Cow manure bothers me a little, but horse manure doesn’t. I think it’s because the horses don’t get their food digested as thoroughly. Never had the chance to sit and listen to cows lowing at sunset, though.

              • An old pig farmer who was a family friend while I was growing up, when asked how he can live there on his farm with the smell replied “Smells like money to me!”

                • I worked at a plastic moulding plant … after two days you don’t really smell it anymore. Same with people who over-dose perfumes. I still came home smelling like burned plastic, but I couldn’t smell myself.

                  Same with poo.

                  • And cats. I have some old friends who are “cat people”. It’s not just that they have a cat or two. They have quite a few, and some of them are “older” cats, with all the issues that come with keeping “older” cats. They moved to So. Fla years ago, so I rarely get to see them. One of them came up for a party a while back, and I couldn’t even sit near her. I’m allergic to cats, and she… well… the only proper word for it is REEKED of cat. As far as I can tell, she doesn’t even realize it.

              • Horse manure isn’t quite as pungent. I think that part of it is horses are also more ‘pet’ than ‘future food supply’ so tend to have a better diet. Our horses almost always got grain, in addition to hay, which I think does account for a lot of the difference in smell. That I think most people’s experience with cows tends to be driving by slaughtering houses/feed lots etc, doesn’t help since it’s also much more concentrated.

                Huh, this was not exactly a conversational topic I think I ever expected to be experience.

              • Feed lots smell incredibly bad. Normal amounts of cow poop smell trigger nostalgia and feelings of love and acceptance. 🙂

                Might be similar to how they make perfume out of skunk glands.

                • Also, cows in feed lots are given a diet that is higher energy than is natural for cows. So in addition to the higher population density, the cows are basically on the verge of being sick. It isn’t pretty.

            • When I had a kidlet of that age, I used to think that there might be something in having a “sick kid” daycare option. Maybe run by a local hospital. For a little above the regular day-care charge, have a ward for drop-in care of sick kids. Isolated beds, health-care monitoring on tap … I actually think that in some locations there is such an option now, so other people have seen the utility of that service.
              I was never so grateful as I was, when my daughter got to the point (about eleven years old, IIRC) that when she was sick enough to skip school, that I could leave her safely tucked up at home, in my bed, with the house telephone at hand

              • When kid started day care, the day care had just had Chicken Pox sweep through the non-baby (through 30 months) classes. We missed it. The next year it sweep through the baby room, including my son, & my sisters two kids of approximately the same age. This was before the vaccine was available (FWIW not that long ago). No, our son didn’t expose the two girls, not the same towns; but mom mentioned that is what used to be done, expose the kids before they started school …

                • my little sister brought it home from day care for me to get it at uh… 14?

                  • There was one memorable summer when I was, I believe, five years old and came home from the last day of kindergarten with the chicken pox, which were summarily shared with older brother (8) and younger sister (3). Return to school in the Fall was slightly delayed by us each encountering, in turn, the measles.

                    Funny, Mum never seemed inclined to share her memories of that summer.

                    • Sounds like a memorable summer before I turned 8. Chicken Pox & mumps, all 3 of us, one after another (couldn’t have them at the same time), ultimately all 11 kids in the neighborhood. What was interesting was that the other 10 then got the (now available) measles vaccines. When I asked why not me? Was told “because you’ve already had both versions.” Actually sick not vaccines.

                      Yes. Mom doesn’t mention that summer much. OTOH mention the flu & she shudders. More than a few Christmases vacations ended up with one or more of us getting sick starting Christmas Eve or Day. Not food poisoning, not everyone got sick.

              • That would be an awesome option.

                Heck, you could even manage an in-school option of sorts, with glorified white cotton sheets set up to make cubicals, sealed computer system to work on, plastic covered keyboard that can be lysol’d down.

                Biggest problem would be…some people… *raises hand* … declaring they are sick just to avoid the @#$@# classmates.

              • And nowadays if Mrs Grundy next door detects it, you’ll find she’ll need a family defense lawyer on speed dial. This is why unenforceable laws simply lead to selective enforcement by whoever you’ve annoyed.

            • We have chickens in our suburban back yard – and fortunately, all of our neighbors (at least to our face) tell us that they rather like the sound of the chickens, and Larry-Bird the Rooster tuning up in the wee hours of the morning. (The gifts of gourmet home-made fudge that we give away at Christmas may account, in part, for this indulgence. Also – fresh eggs.) One of our neighbors, who attend the Catholic church across the green belt told us (with great amusement) of a sermon that the priest there had preached. It was about adapting – and the priest went on and on about how country folk had moved to the Big City and still kept their ways (and rooster!) yet adapted!
              They could hardly keep from laughing – because they realized who the rooster and chicken-keepers were. And we are suburban folk, who recently decided to keep chickens ….

    • It’s also a mistake to assume that the flyover rednecks are less educated than their ivory tower betters. Some stats I happen to have instantly to hand, looked up cuz I’d been longterm resident both places. [Note that as SoCal goes, Lancaster is relatively educated; at the time the H.S. graduation rate for the city of Los Angeles was 43%]

      Stats courtesy of the U.S. Census (I believe these were published in 2005):

      For population 25 years and over in Lancaster, California:
      * High school or higher: 78.3%
      * Bachelor’s degree or higher: 15.8%
      * Graduate or professional degree: 5.6%
      * Unemployed: 11.2%

      For population 25 years and over in Bozeman, Montana:
      * High school or higher: 94.3%
      * Bachelor’s degree or higher: 49.5%
      * Graduate or professional degree: 15.6%
      * Unemployed: 9.5%

      • I would wager the High School graduates in Bozeman know considerably more than the ones in Lancaster. Heck, I wager that a material portion of them can read their diplomas.

        Contra DeBlasio’s schools chancellor, not all high school diplomas are created equal.

      • Lancaster also has a side that is north of the 14 that is… not as educated at all… like, desert poor folks… and some people that drive to Edwards every day.

      • SheSellsSeashells

        I never bought into the “ignorant rube” stereotype because my best friend’s father was a conservative Baptist of the Bob Jones/Bill Gothard school; they were a homeschool family with seven theme-named kids. And he had NASA calling him up about once a year going “please please please can we hire you NOW?”

      • If you sampled just farmers, the rate would be even higher.

        Not because of a deep thirst for knowledge, but because of the military’s education benefits!

    • If one is trying to enter a career that requires professional licensing (medicine, law) or getting an engineering degree, the stranglehold the left has on the academies is a huge obstacle. I got through 4 years of college and three years of law school in the 1980s, and it was bad enough then with the Soviet sympathizers etc., but the climate is so much worse today that I know that I could not make it through one year of college before getting expelled or assaulted for thought-crime, because I will not tolerate leftist BS,m and will not stay silent, I didn’t then, and I certainly wouldn’t’ now.

      • After almost a 20 year break from college I started taking classes again last year. The technical books were mostly good. (I still want find the writer of the Intro to Infosec book and have words with him). The other classes ended up with me dropping out. Even the English text book was full of propaganda. I know I could have gritted my teeth and written what the teacher wanted to see, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. (Which actually kind of sucked, I know I’ve been out of school long enough that a refresher on grammar would be helpful).

        One textbook was about ‘Corporate Communication’ or something along those lines and in every single place where it mentioned an employee/employer dispute? The solution in the book was to unionize.

  8. It leads me to believe either they’re incredibly shallow thinkers, or they think that any opposition is lack of information … OR they’re aliens and have no idea what people really are and think.

    What is this “or” you talk about? Embrace the power of “and”!

    • I’ve had various situations where I was talking to someone who was putting English words into grammatical stentences, but they might as well have been saying random phrases cut from TV shows.

      I began calling them “alien encounters.”

      • I think this is what has led some people to call such people “NPCs,” which apparently gives them profound offense. Of course, lots of things do that.

        • They are offended because it’s true.

          • I don’t know. I’ve played lots of NPCs in my campaigns, and I give them more personality than that, and certainly better dialogue.

            • As long as I never have to hear about adventuring careers and arrows to the knee ever again.

            • Comes from the video game NPCs, though, with their limited scripts, my kid pointed out, not the lovingly developed tabletop game NPCs. (You know the PCs are going to pick that one you didn’t develop to love, persuade, adopt, and haul along for the next decade. Or seduce and marry and haul along for the next decade.)

              • I always count it as a triumph when the PCs turn one of my velveteen rabbits into a Real Rabbit.

                • *grin* Those are the campaigns the players liked the best, too, in my experience.

                • SheSellsSeashells

                  Mine took a shine to the little old lady who showed up to dragoon them into their first adventure (she mistook the tiefling for the town guard and gave her hell until the party agreed to go investigate). Now her name is Edna, her Worthless Son-in-Law ™ is the captain of the guard, and she rules her daughter’s inn with an age-spotted iron fist.

                  She’s also a not-terribly-retired senior cleric of the luck goddess, but they don’t know that.

            • Depends on the NPC. I used to run a 1930s Pulp campaign…with thugs whose names were numbers. Thug 46, for example. Of course, the only interaction the PCs had with them was shooting them, punching them, and interrogating them.

              • Eh. My mobs tended to go with things like Snaggly, Stinky, Crookback, Gimpy, or Joe. Nobody liked Joe that much. *chuckle* The potbellied thug with the lazy eye tended to get remembered (and beat on) and enjoyed. Of course, when the npcs start nicknaming the PCs it can get out of hand… *chuckle*

              • That reminds of a Robert Mitchum quip that, at one point in his film career, it was guaranteed that a couple thugs would beat the crap out of him on page six. He said he could have been doing War & Peace and, come page six, two thugs would work him over.

          • They are offended because that’s how they’re programmed.

  9. [T]here are many who will keep quiet and hate you all the harder for what you’re making them do …

    There’s even a Country song expressing that.


    Gawd, what wouldn’t I give for Trump to sing a chorus of this at his next press conference?

    How do you like me now
    How do you like me now
    Now that I’m on my way
    Do you still think I’m crazy standing here today
    I couldn’t make you love me
    But I always dreamed about living in your radio
    How do you like me now?!

  10. I seriously doubt Trump was under cover. He was your standard NYC/Jersey liberal with a touch of reality in his thinking (“I would be happy if we could ban all guns… But I doubt it would work.) and he did have to be a certain amount of leftoid to operate, but he still was a bit more a slightly left of Rudy Dem, than the other Clinton hangers-on. What he is, is a yuge ego driven narcissist. He was rich enough the President being a leftoid or a conservative had virtually no effect on him.
    But. He tossed his support to Hillary in 08, did a lot of her work in the birther accusations (leftoids conveniently forget that is the origin of that) and got himself insulted by 0bama and Hillary gave that knife a few spins of her own. He decided then he would undo everything they (0bama & Hillary) worked for as revenge.
    At least, that’s my theory.

    • Wasn’t the first time Trump ran for president. He originally attempted to get the Reform Party nomination back in 2000.

    • A lot of the Hillary people behind the Obama “birther” accusations were the same people who helped concoct the bogus Steele Dossier. Of course in Obama’s case, he invited the accusation, because the official biography in his first book, that he must have reviewed and approved, expressly stated he was born in Kenya. I suspect that he was likely falsifying his background in order to help sell the book based on firmer leftist bona-fides, but the simple fact is that the official bio had it, thereby opening up the question as legitimate when he ran for POTUS.

      • Yep. Also didn’t help his released copy is obviously modified. It’s supposed to be a scan of a page still in a bookbinding and where the page curves into the spine the lettering doesn’t. But, his mom was in Hawaii when he was born.
        I think the campaign then used the cries of “Foul” over the release to deflect scrutiny somewhere else.

        • I remain convinced that he was born in Kenya…but that isn’t important. I strongly suspect he attended college as a foreign national…which IS important.

          Background: Under Kenyan law, any child of a Kenyan national can claim Kenyan citizenship. There is no question about Obama’s paternity. But an equally strong claim can be made for U.S. citizenship through his mother alone, regardless of place of birth. Plus questions about whether or not his stepfather adopted him. So young Barry Obama can legally claim dual, possibly triple citizenship.

          But the U.S. State Department doesn’t recognize multiple citizenship. He has to choose one.

          And I’d bet money he applied to college as a foreign national. That’s a choice.

          • It’s been a while since I dug into the issue, but as I recall Barry’s mother was not legally capable of passing on citizenship. I forget the detains, but it had something to do with her age and how long she’d been living in the US as an adult.

            It doesn’t matter – they got away with it and, as per Liberty Valance, the MSM will print the legend.

      • Basically 0bama was the Three Card Monty of candidates.

      • That “official bio” reflected the probable fact that he claimed foreign birth for the same reason Liawatha Warren claimed to be Cherokee: somewhere in his buried college records there’s evidence that he used it to qualify for some form of “diversity”.

  11. Naw, I don’t agree that Trump is a petulant Leftist. I think he supported the Clintons, because they were dickheads he could bribe.
    It’s when the Dems turned hard Left that he bailed.

    • Yep. I don’t think I said he was a petulant leftist. Unless I’m worse at words than usual. Go check.

    • I’d bet he and Bill got along fine and with Bill you have the Witch. With her, it was likely only a matter of time before she POed him anyhow.
      An he can be quite petulant whether he is being leftoid or Mr. Super Right Conservative. Just how he is.
      He was still fronting large donations to leftoid candidates right up until he declared he was running for the GOP nomination. One doesn’t give the Maximum to McCommie in Virginia and not know it is going to the Hard Left, but he never was a full on super lib leftoid, except for wanting Candian style healthcare. But really he only supported some of that because, at his pay rate, it was not going to affect him, ever.

  12. In fact, those opinions — such as on gun control, say — changed through examining how these opinions HELPED communism.

    About the time I started actually thinking about politics, I came across Joe Huffman’s “Jews in the Attic” test. http://www.joehuffman.org/Freedom/JewsInTheAttic.htm
    It really helped me understand what my opinions might mean in “real life”.

    • For reference, that test consists of asking of any proposed “public security” law this question: “Will this law make it difficult or impossible to protect innocent life from a government intent on their imprisonment or death?”

      The big stumbling block of that test, of course, is that it makes no impact on someone who honestly thinks something like: “If the State is intent on their imprisonment or death then by definition they cannot be innocent.”

      • Yes, you’ve pointed out that the test is of no use for absolutist statist assholes. Well, maybe “no use” might be saying too much. For them using the test in reverse might help them decide that they LIKE a law.

        For more “normal” progressives, I would offer a slight modification to the test that might help them see it’s value. Make it the “Hondurans in the basement” test.

      • Treason doth not prosper, for if it prospers, then none dare call it treason. Paraphrasing John Harington.

  13. Being hard to find has its benefits, though. Especially if the people who you want to know where you are can find you and the others can’t.

  14. So what are the female civic virtues, in your father’s eyes?

    • My GRANDMOTHER’s eyes?
      We were supposed to keep the home fires burning and the absolutely essential things going. Not so very different from heinlein’s list of the competent man.
      Grandma was an early feminist (not like today’s feminists.) She thought men were very well in their place, stuff like politics and public life, but without women knowing how to do all the other stuff and keeping it on track, the world would come apart.

      • Not too far from what the Founders called “republican motherhood.” The duty of women was to manage the home and to teach the children so the next generation would be good citizens and educated in the duties of same. Which meant that women had to at least understand the political and civic processes, even if they couldn’t take par the same way men could. It borrowed a bit from the Puritan/Separatist idea of the Godly household as the “little commonwealth,” plus what people though Republican Rome was like.

  15. You see, I’m 99.9% sure Cruz is one of us.

    I think that if you are right (and I’m fairly convinced you are) Cruz really should just let go and be himself. Face it, Beto and people like him aren’t going away. I foresee that this is the way the Democrat party is going to move, fielding younger, more populist style candidates. The one thing holding them back is that the power brokers in the party are old, and they don’t want to give up power to the youngsters. The Republicans need to get out in front of that before the up-and-coming Democrats eat their lunch.

    • The power brokers on the Dem side are old! The young up-and-comers are gaining the spot light in *spite* of them, not because of them. Nancy managed to quash a lot of new talent last time she gained Speakership, and I expect her to do it again.

      Oh, wait, that’s what you said…

      • Old and vicious and/or set in their ways vs. young and ignorant and often rabid. Yuck. Not a choice I want to have to make.

        • Gasp! That’s even more unappealing than a choice between kohlrabi and Brussels sprouts. *shudder*

          • But I LIKE both of those! Well, to be honest, I haven’t tried kohlrabi since I was a kid, but my family actively fights over brussel sprouts. The trick is in how you prepare them.

            • Kohlrabi should be prepared raw. I can’t imagine anyone not liking it. Brussel sprouts can be very bitter and awful.

              • Man… I gotta get me some Kohlrabi and try it again. I tried it when I was a kid because my dad made me look in the seed catalog and pick SOMETHING to grow in the garden, and I was being a smart-ass that day (nobody in the family had ever heard of the stuff). I remember being about the only one in the family to like it.

                Brussels sprouts on the other hand, get cut into wedges (or halfs) and sauteed in butter/olive oil in my wok, then “finished” by dropping a bit of water in (maybe 1/3 cup or less) and putting the lid on to steam so they get nice and soft (but not TOO soft, mushy is no good).

                • We get the frozen sprouts from Walmart and use them in stews or when I’m roasting (which eventually becomes stew anyways)– my husband loves them at “mushy,” so I tend to put in two rounds of veggies: the stuff that becomes sauce, and the stuff where you can actually identify the vegetables. 😀

                  Treat them roughly like carrot chunks. If the carrots are babyfood, then the put-in-frozen sprouts will be, too.

    • Nah, no mask means that people can tell what you care about– and that’s fatal with the left.

      • Yes, but too MUCH mask, and you aren’t recognized by “your people”.

        Kinda like the guy who sneaks into his house to surprise everyone, only to have his throat ripped out by his own dog.

        • If the house is surrounded by a psychotic mob chanting “death to the guy who lives here!” then it’s stupid for the family inside to not expect that, if he comes in, it won’t be obviously recognizable.

          This is why I don’t like tribalism, incidentally. He’s using manners, and yes the “used car salesman” vibe is annoying, but he’s taking pains to not violate social norms so we should move on to what he actually argues and really does, rather than joining the Left in their “reeeeeeee I need to IDENTIFY with them reeeeeeeee-” thing.

  16. I never understood the left’s belief that if they stop opponents from talking, or even force opponents to behave as though they agreed with the left, the opposition will go away. 

    In some ways it is very simple.  The first thing it does is to keep people who disagree with you from finding each other — both isolating them and reducing their power to resist.  The second thing it does it it keeps the ideas they want no one to learn about out of the market place.  Finally, if there are no new converts all that is left is to outlive the the opponents you presently have. 

    • It seems simple but does RL actually work that way? Ever?

      • It makes it more difficult for the not so committed. And unfortunately, no matter how good the idea, the ones left over are often so fanatical as to not entirely be mentally stable.

      • How real life actually works doesn’t seem to matter when talking about a group where many believe that the problem with communism/socialism is that it hasn’t really been properly tried.

        • As with any toxin, there will always be some [expletive] asserting “It isn’t the drug, it’s the dosage!”

  17. I think he should put on a costume and hit comicon. Sure, pay attention to the costume so it’s nothing the left can pick on him for, but let people see him having fun. He underestimates to what extent the geeks have taken over the culture.

    Fezzik.

    I actually went here to say he should copy the guy who goes as Nixon’s Head from futurama, then suddenly could “see” him as Fezzik.

    It was adorkable.

  18. Wow. This hits a lot of the points that I’ve been trying to make to people for a long, long time. We’ve created echo chambers, especially in the media and social networking, where if you don’t have the Correct Opinion, you’re not just not welcome, but you must be made to conform and agree. I can remember when you could argue things, but now? I know I can’t talk about some things at the local cons, or else I would lose what few “friends” I have left.

    Ugh.

    • I refuse to be assimilated by the Borg.

    • One of the guys in my husband’s egaming group is a disagreeable SOB.

      But HE WILL ARGUE FAIRLY, AND NOT GET ANGRY AT YOU.

      Highly valuable.

      • Your husband games with Bob the Registered????

        • Pretty sure Bob isn’t Canadian….maybe a cousin.

          (One of the things I miss most about my sister is the screaming fights. We’d be ridiculously childish, and five minutes later sit down and take a deep breath and hug because we felt so damned much better. Girl version of the “two guys get in the ring to box so they relieve stress” thing.)

          • BobtheRegisterredFool

            I was tempted to make a similar joke or comment.

            I know my first cousins, and none of them are Canadian. Neither am I. The same family lore that tells of Indian heritage tells of Canadian heritage, but we don’t talk about that. 🙂 I think I’ve not been on an online gaming social environment since 2015.

            The thing about being obnoxious, if you are disciplined about sticking within a narrow code, more people will tolerate you. If you want to say things people will not want to hear, you are well advised to be very careful about staying on one side of a behavioral line.

            I sometimes get angry when people disagree with me. I’m fortunate that when I really lose my temper, I also often lose enough command of my words that I have trouble expressing the ugly things I feel. It can be an important clue that I need to drop things.

            And sometimes my thinking is bad enough that I don’t judge the fairness of my arguments very well.

  19. Nonsense. the Beautiful But Evil Space Princesstm will be protected by her Royal Guard.

  20. In fact, I was a young hellion, with acidic opinions and at the time had ideas of how things like the relationship between the sexes should be that would have made most of them not just blush but run and hide.

    Well, you know the saying: “It’s always the quiet ones”

  21. I may have just lost two college friends. Via FB. I just posted about Avenatti getting arrested and got the whole “oh, he’s being framed” and “what about presumption of innocence” (from a defense lawyer who never applied it to Kavenaugh). I’m done. I’m trying to be a happy warrior in the path of a very dear, late friend of mine. He was the epitome of happy warrior and I try to emulate that. But, yes, it’s hard. As I typed my (mostly) restrained responses, I could feel my heart rate increasing and my blood pressure going up. I logged out of FB and came over here. I’m done trying to pretend that I care about keeping them happy when their goal is to keep me unhappy.

    • Some people can only find happiness in submission to their delusions. Trying t make such abusers happy is an attempt at self destruction.

    • I feel for you. I lost some very close friends to the “Obama Koolaid” years ago. It felt like such a huge betrayal when people whom I had been friends with for well over a decade suddenly decided that I was a racist because I didn’t agree with their political opinions.

    • We shouldn’t keep them up, but we SHOULD fight it out with the college kids as much as possible. We’re losing an entire generation and maybe more. By the time they realize what a crock of death the left sells it might be too late for the country.
      Sorry. This is the truth. I’m thinking of ordering books on how to deprogram cult members and seeing what we can apply.