I’m also going to answer this where the commenter posted (I haven’t seen in which thread yet, since I clicked from the comments page. However, this deserved its own post. To my readers, I PROMISE it’s the last. I’m sure like me you find this grows tedious. Particularly the “talking to a wall” aspect. But hey, this one gets a reading list.
Dear Anon,
Because your comment is moderately literate and at least superficially polite, I have unscreened it. I am, however, going to analyse it. And in future, I will answer no more anonymous posts. You want to discuss things with me, sign it. Caleb did and I didn’t bite him.
“First and foremost, I have read your entire blog and understand your argument.”
You read ALL of it? Really? Including the Wizzy Wiggs saga? WHY?
If you understand my argument, then why are you defending a teacher who was never under attack? I snarked about her annoying characteristics. It might surprise you to know she’s human and that she can be mocked. I will later be posting a reading list for your class. For now, consider reading The Name Of The Rose by Umberto Eco, possibly the only Nobel Prize winner in my conscious life that deserves reading. The final point of theology on which the solution to the mystery hinges is relevant to this attitude. (And don’t watch the movie. It has NOTHING to do with the book.)
“It is true that culture does not equal genetics. I agree with this notion and realize that the point of your blog was not to patronize or attack the teacher. ”
Indeed. First, I’m glad you agree with the “notion” which is as much a “notion” as gravity is a “notion.” Psychologists and sociologists throughout the world rejoice.
As for patronizing and attacking the teacher, do you mean the teacher who was never named in the school that was never named? It might interest you to know I know FOUR IB teachers who are once-published-poets. It might also interest you to know there are TWO IB programs in this city and about six in the rest of Colorado. Oh, and though this might be a bit over your head, not only is there another Robert Hoyt in Colorado, but he’s in IB in a totally different city. Same year as Robert. How do I know this? Because his parents used to live in town and, by coincidence, his parents have the same name my husband and I do. This is borderline freaky, and yet true. Hoyt is a common name in Colorado. Google “Hoyt, Colorado.” It’s a city. Founded by… Hoyts.
Not only was the teacher not named, she was unidentifiable to anyone but those who already knew her. And then only because she’s the ONLY person I have ever heard of afflicted by pronoun-a-phobia.
IF I wanted to attack her I could do what I almost did last December when I was taking some clothes into my son’s room and saw a graded paper on his desk — I could post his answers and HER comments. TRUST me, I’m a teacher. I was trained for and TAUGHT Gifted and Talented. Her comments were much like the poster’s who called me names, only without the profanity. Posting this would destroy whatever reputation she still has and, in case you wonder, I can be INCREDIBLY snarky with material like that. I could make such a comment and critique an overnight blog sensation, linked by major sites interested in education.
Why didn’t I do it? She’s young. There is hope she will learn. There is hope she will grow up. She might be redeemable. (Although for reasons I’ll mention below I’m starting to doubt it, and continued harping on how she shouldn’t be criticized will tempt my worst angels.)
“However, my primary concern lies in the fact that, in my view, you did, in some cases, criticize our teacher. ”
And this is a bad thing, because? Considering I criticized her without naming her… this affects her/you, because?
If you read my “entire” blog you read the posters who are teachers and who mentioned good teachers establish blogs where people CAN criticize them. If this shocks you, again, you shouldn’t be so subservient to ANY authority. That is the mentality of a serf, not a leader.
And might I add I am SHOCKED that the IB program, which is supposed to foster critical thinking is producing so many people SHOCKED someone might consider their teacher less than perfect? Look, my best teachers, my greatest professors, those who are authorities in their field, fell short of perfect. And I wouldn’t have been shocked if a parent took issue with their stranger notions. (If you think your teacher doesn’t have strange notions, consider that “article phobia” is no part of anyone’s theory of writing or style. Unclear antecedents for pronouns are a problem. Pronouns by themselves are just a part of the language and very useful.)
“Trust me, I have complained about my fair share of assignments that I found inappropriate or unnecessary.”
And? This attempt at empathy falls short of the point I’ve made — how many dozen times now? — that the assignment was not just inappropriate or unnecessary (I class most of what my kids do in school as “button counting.”) If I blogged about those, I would do NOTHING else. This assignment was PERNICIOUS and detrimental to the students’ world view and their critical thinking skills.
Okay — thought experiment. Let’s say ten years from now, you’re married, with a child. Your child comes home and tells you, “We’re supposed to do an assignment on how all *insert race here* are lazy and stupid.” Regardless of what you thought or didn’t think of the teacher, how would you react? As far as I was concerned this is the mentality that assignment fosters.
And whether the assignment was “Your cultural ancestry” or not, again, that’s how most people understood it, which leads me to believe there was something in how it was phrased. The further reason to believe this is that I’ve lived with my son for sixteen years. He’s not infallible. He can be a right royal pain in the backside. HOWEVER he’s an IB student. You tell me how often you guys misunderstand “for point” assignments. There are IB jokes on this subject!
“However, there is a difference between a bad assignment and a bad teacher.”
Yes. Granted. A lot of these assignments come from above. Note that to the extent I criticized your teacher, it was for other things. Note also that those were light, glancing blows. I could do MUCH worse. Note that I didn’t identify her or even give many of her defining characteristics. I COULD have.
“There is also a difference between complaining about a teacher in the privacy of your home or with the teacher themselves, and complaining about a teacher in a public forum.”
Yes, there is a difference. When I complain in a public forum I make my peers and other parents aware of the sad state of education even for the very gifted. Your point is? If I had named her and said “Ms so and so is a bad, bad teacher” it would STILL be valid. It would still be within my rights. My TAXES pay for the teacher. She is a PUBLIC employee.
In case your in-depth reading of my blog missed this — I grew up under a socialist regime. The idea that you should only criticize authorities in private is very well known to me. And repulsive. Private criticism makes it impossible for people to realize others are facing the same problem. I assign you to read The Gulag Archipelago, which I first read in a photocopy, clandestinely passed around my ninth grade class. It wasn’t “forbidden” as such but it was frowned upon. As in this would definitely be reflected on your grades and affect your chances at college. Hence, photocopies. And brown paper covers.
“With that said, I wish to formally apologize for my classmates’ improper comments. I assure you that they meant no harm.”
IMPROPER? I’d say improper, illiterate and illogical. I’d also be ashamed to be associated with them in any way shape or form.
As for no harm, consider this — although I stray into my personal life now and then, because a lot of the fans/friends who read this have an interest or because the anecdote illustrates a larger point, as this one did, this blog is attached to my professional image. Although I’m fairly sure the circus here in the last couple of days has not hurt it, it’s also not even REMOTELY related to writing, except as far as you and your classmates have provided bad examples of it.
I’ve also lost two days of my work under an avalanche of what amounts to a “cyber attack.” Contrary to the idea that I write for my ego or derive “superiority” from it — an idea that would be at best hilarious to anyone in this field. Our experiences mostly resemble an unending series of kicks in the teeth, except for the very lucky few — this is my job. I get paid for it. My monetary contribution is NECESSARY to this household.
Imagine — a thought experiment again — that your classmates decided something your father did/said MONTHS ago without identifying the teacher/school he referred to was mortally injurious to the honor/standing of a teacher who is very popular with the class. (Something that has NOTHING to do with being a good teacher, btw. In fact, it’s often proof one is NOT a good teacher, whatever the sixties generation believed.) They decide to go to where he works and stand in his office screaming at him. He tries to ignore them but every five minutes, another one screams. So he starts answering them and all of them, even the polite ones, keep repeating the same things he already disproved, until it’s obvious they don’t want to listen, they just want to yell at him for this “bad” thing he did, which no one would have noticed till THEY called attention to it.
Would you see it as their having done him no harm? Now suppose because of this your father will have to spend the weekend working to make up time lost. Suppose you had a family trip planned. (BOTH of these apply in this case.) Would this be no harm?
Again, critical thinking skills and evaluation of consequences are missing here. To “defend” your teacher, in a blog that’s NOT primarily about education, in a post in which she was never named nor her school identified, you flocked to interfere with someone’s performance of her job.
Yep, seems like the teacher is doing a fine job of teaching you empathy — which is at least part of analysing literature — and logical thinking.
“All I ask is that you understand where we are coming from. ”
I DO understand where you’re coming from. Oh, I do. You’re coming from a cult of personality, where your teacher’s self-esteem (She is of that generation, poor thing) is so important, she can’t stand the idea that anyone, anywhere can refrain from agreeing with her or could possibly think her less than stellar. This attitude — EXPLICIT or not — has communicated itself to her students.
“I personally feel as though our English teacher is one of the best educators I have ever encountered in my 12 years of public schooling.”
My sentiments. This goes to the heart of why MORE parents should blog about the state of our education and the senseless/counterproductive things that teachers do or their lack of preparation to teach.
Since ours is a national education system, this is a matter of national concern. I know we’re all very busy, but we’ll just have to keep a closer eye on teachers from now on.
Also and for the record your feelings are never proof of anything.
“She not only taught me the importance of literature, she has also inspired me as a student and learner.”
Really? Do you know, in one of my final tests in college, the question was as follows “What is the difference between literature and real life.” This was THE question upon which my graduating from Theory of Literature hinged.
I answered by comparing literature to Plato’s cave. What you think you see in real life is actually the projected images in the cave. Literature is the only way you can see “the real thing.”
Though it is not my job to teach you the importance of literature, and though doing so would take FAR longer than I have, let me give you a quick look-see:
Reality is chaotic. The human brain is a mechanism for ordering reality. Literature is the only thing that gives us the ability to “see” into others’ minds, and see how they order reality. For this reason, it is very important. (Other reasons too.)
We’ll leave alone the fact that I know what you’ve been reading and most of it falls under more “trendy” than any definition of literature that will stand the test of time. You could get the same — very flawed — points by reading Marx’s books. We’ll even leave aside the fact I’ve read her graded tests — IF your teacher has managed to communicate to the class that different brains process reality in different ways; that we’re all prisoners of our time/age/class except for the ability to experience someone else’s mind in a book (Movies don’t do it, they’re externalized) NONE of the commenters so far showed it. No, not even you.
Also the reading comprehension on display and the constant resurgence of things that I or my posters have disposed of (“You should never criticize a teacher personally” being one of those) tells me your ability to process/analyse information is less than stellar. If she’s not teaching you to extract meaning from text WHAT is she doing?
The needless, sweeping, palpably inaccurate statements such as “I’ve read your entire blog” and repetitive phrasing “As a student and a learner” betray a sad lack of understanding of HOW to express yourself in writing.
Let me add, cold comfort though it is, that so far you’re the best I’ve seen of your teacher’s handywork. YOU are condemning her in a way I never wanted to and could never manage on my own. Reminds me of a poem by Reiner Kunze on the celebrations on Lenin’s anniversary “Even if he wanted to be remembered this way/It would be an insult.”
On a personal note — Robert does write. Professionally. Since we’re not a wealthy family – whatever you heard about what writers make is oh, so wrong – this is part of how he intends to finance his education. I’ve hesitated to even mention this, but your teacher with her insane obsessions with pronouns (Oh, yeah and barring the word “show” because — and this is a direct quote, ladies and gentlemen who normally read this blog: “I see words as little images, and “show” is a little man who comes out and flashes you.” Yes, she teaches eleventh grade to a supposedly GIFTED program. Not, as it might sound, second grade) and whatever else Robert hasn’t gotten around to mentioning (MOST of her comments on Robert’s papers could be effectively countered with “sounds like a personal problem to me.”) has RUINED Robert’s style and voice. I could simply type in his essays from the end of last year and his essays now, when he engages in verbal contortions to avoid triggering the teacher’s phobias. THAT too would be sufficient indictment of her and her teaching “methods.” And before you say you shouldn’t allow a teacher to do that. True. But he’s with her almost every day. I’ve seen editors and agents do this to professionals. He doesn’t have enough experience to avoid its being done to him. Nor should he have to.
Oh, mind you, it will pass. But she has cost him probably — already — a couple of novel sales, because his revision of the novel — requested by the editor — is on hold till he’s out from under this teacher’s influence.
“It is teachers like her that make me passionate about learning.”
Learning WHAT exactly? Being passionate about generic “learning” is not a virtue, whatever they taught you in your school. I could spend the rest of my life learning the fine art of gilding dog poop. Would that be a valuable skill? Is all learning equal? What if I were “passionate” about it? Do feelings trump logic?
Let me see what you and your classmates have demonstrated you’ve learned in this blog in the last day: That those in authority cannot be “dissed” by a mere parent? That anyone who does so, no matter how obliquely, deserves a full frontal attack and a “reality check”? That the use of profanity is the clincher in an argument? That teachers are superhuman beings and – like the devil – should never be mocked?
Or simply that “literature” is important? That you are both a student and a learner? That you have the capacity for empathy of a small rock? That you are completely and thoroughly devoid of the burden of any knowledge of philosophy, history, logic, language and (as I’ll prove below) STATISTICS.
I realize most of this is not an ENGLISH teacher’s fault. You’ve been failed by a much larger system. Still, she never taught you the importance of clear and specific writing; never made it possible for you to make a point in a readable and pleasant manner. Also, she hasn’t encouraged critical thinking skills — which I believe are part of IB mission? And she hasn’t taught you reading comprehension. YES I can get all this from yours and your classmates’ comments. You could too, if you had been taught to analyse text.
However, on the off chance she made you passionate about learning SOMETHING, I assign you to reading Stephen King’s On Writing; Strunk and White Elements of Style; Renni Browne and Dave King’s Self Editing for Fiction Writers; James Kilpatrick’s The Writer’s art.
“Finally I wish to clarify that our English teacher made no mention of your blog.”
Very interesting that you need to mention this. I am then left to assume that, as my colleague Kate Paulk pointed out, your teacher is at least very efficient in teaching mind-reading, since ALL of the posters harp on the fact I haven’t talked to/met the teacher. HOW do you know that? This post is SIX months old. I haven’t mentioned the teacher again. HOW do you know I haven’t talked to her? Well, tell me. I’d love to know.
BTW I’ve avoided mentioning her all these months because she’s not that important to me, whatever the gravitational position she holds in her students’ life — not for lack of temptation.
By the way, just as an FYI, that temptation is looking SWEETER by the minute. In fact, the song “One step over the line, sweet Jesus, one step over the line” has been running through my head. I am EAGER for that step to be taken, because since yesterday I’ve found I DO have so much to say about THIS teacher specifically, with school mentioned. And city. And program. And the teacher’s name.
More importantly, you know, I DO have her graded papers — well, Robert does, but he’s at school. And I’m home. And I know where he keeps his stuff. I could just post those with my responses to her comments. That would be fun, wouldn’t it? Well… for me and my regular readers. Or how about I dig through my mailbox where the now deleted anonymous comments are stored and illustrate her pedagogical art in her students’ stellar words? (Humming — one step over the line, sweet Jesus.)
LET me add that ALL of you seem to labor under the impression that I am either fair or NICE. Even the little girl who called me a bitch was under the impression the word would shock me. This is often a tactic used on middle-aged women by aggressive youngsters.
But, you see, I lived through rougher times than you can imagine. My confrontational experiences have included people pointing machine guns at me. They didn’t shut me up, so “bitch” and guilt trips over dissing a teacher “in a public forum” are likely to fail as well. Actually, because I’m of a contrarian disposition, it will PUSH me the other way.
As you will learn — and it IS a valuable experience, perhaps the most valuable in your life — things don’t always go EXACTLY according to plan. Google “Law of unintended consequences” for your further enlightenment.
I have tried to be fair. And in deference for the fact that both you posters and your teacher (if indeed there is a difference) — at least as shown in your comments — are emotionally younger than my thirteen year old who is very young indeed, I’ve held my fire. But this is very rapidly reaching the point where I take off the gloves. TRUST me this is something none of you wants. And it’s not a threat. It’s a promise. You’re a little old for this movie, but I’m sure you’ve heard “Make my day!” Do. Please.
“We are all self-motivated students who independently replied to you.”
Okay, this one has me puzzled. Are you in the advanced Math program? Because so far, I’ve believed that teacher to be competent. Sometimes a little strange, but competent. HOWEVER if you are in the advanced math program, I will have to revise this opinion.
Consider this — the post did not mention your school and your teacher by name. I can perfectly understand the wish to google schools/teachers. Writers google agents and editors ALL the time. However, a google for your school name and teacher, would NOT bring this up.
So, let’s say the idea that Robert’s mom writes has gotten around, and that all of you decided to look at my blog. AT THE SAME TIME. In this incredibly compressed period of time. First, it’s not that FASCINATING and I know blog-reading behavior. You read one page, maybe two. Snicker at the idea that to me Robert is a child. Okayfine. IF – and considering how far back you have to go, this is unlikely – you find that post, you might drop a CASUAL “Hey, the teacher is okay, and the assignment wasn’t THAT.” At normal rate of responses, I would get maybe one of these a month for the next two years.
BUT why did ALL of you — AT THE SAME TIME — not, a trickle over weeks/months but in the space of — now — thirty some hours — post “independently” to the same SIX MONTHS OLD post. And how do you ALL manage to misinterpret the post in exactly the same way and bring up the exact same “points.”
I’m not the mathematician in the house. My husband is. I’m sure he can give me a seat of the pants estimate on the probability — or even possibility — that you’re all posting independently. However, even without being a mathematician, I can safely say it is FAR lower than the possibility that a coin, when thrown, will fall neither on one side nor on edge, but will remain suspended middair.
I’m sorry, I don’t believe in magic. I only write it as FICTION.
In a court of law the messages of the last day are prima-facie evidence of “a conspiracy to harass.” No jury would buy that “independent” thing.
To avoid this type of embarrassment in the future, I recommend reading “The cartoon guide to statistics” by Larry Gonick. It will serve you well in life. Oh, and it’s funny too.
” It may be our hormones that are telling us to write these posts”
WHAT is this? The son of Sam defense? If your hormones are in any way concerned with your English teacher, someone at the school should look into it ASAP. (One step over the line, Sweet Jesus.) And if you believe your hormones actually TALK to you, hie thee with all speed to either the detox center or the psychiatrist.
If what you MEANT — without sounding deranged — is that “the emotional turmoil of adolescence might be responsible for these posts” let me just say “No.” Lack of understanding of the world and self control, plus the unhealthy atmosphere your teacher has CLEARLY fostered, plus the antics of a school system devoted to the deification of teachers as uber-menschen has caused you to write this. As weird as this is — adults have hormones too. In a a court of law, “My hormones made me do it” is no more a defense than “but the dog told me to cut up the neighbors and put their pieces in a trash bag.” No, wait. I correct myself. There is NO way to express what you tried to say without sounding insane.
I assign you to read Red Planet and Podkayne of Mars, for a better understanding of the concept of “individual responsibility” which seems to have completely evaded you.
“but regardless, the shear number of positive responses for our teacher demonstrates the impact she has had on all of our lives.”
Yes, yes, indeed it does. However, to quote my friend Kate, impact can be either good or bad and in this case I would say it is uniformly bad — just from what I see in my blog.
I will not be so unkind as to make fun of your typo. I’m the queen of typos, that’s why I have copy editors. However there is a psychological school that believes that typos reveal the deeper works of the subconscious and often try to sound the alarm about a behavior that we are not consciously aware of.
Your typo made me think of sheep, which is what you and your classmates have shown yourselves to be on this blog.
Quickly, let me disabuse of some notions:
A popular teacher is not necessarily a good teacher. I’m sure my posters who were in school in the sixties can provide plenty of examples.
A good way to get students’ adoration is to give them power over adults and to encourage them to think that the adults are in awe/scared of you. As a general guideline ANY teacher who comes into the classroom and starts off with “I’m sure you’ll teach me more than I’ll teach you” is a BAD teacher. They’re trying to get your buy-in on their personality, not their competence. Now, I don’t know if your teacher has done this, but I would bet she did. (Well, give it a little leeway. Some teachers say this because they think they have to. OBSERVE them. If they mean it, they are no good.) Another line is “you are the best educated, brightest,” (etc) “generation.” It’s hooey. Every generation has believed this of itself. If they say it without irony, they’re trying to put one over on you.
Your teacher is supposed to command your RESPECT for concrete achievements; not your “love” for her being “a friend”. The other is a Hollywood fairytale.
GOOD teachers live on after death and their written words influence generations yet unborn. This is not a function of being “the most caring person ever!” It’s a function of having something to teach and communicating it effectively.
Beyond this, the fact you ALL rushed to defend her, even though she hadn’t been attacked, betrays a form of insanity usually found in cults.
Please, for your own sake and the sake of your future, read “Seductive Poison: A Jonestown survivor’s story by Deborah Layton.
Also, because one of the ways adults use to gain power over teens and convince them that the adult is “special” and “important” and “must be defended” read about the cultural revolution. A GOOD — i.e., not “official” coming from a dictatorship. Yes, China is STILL a dictatorship — biography of Mao will help. Read biographies of people who survived the cultural revolution, too. It might give you some insight into the processes of being “loved” and how illegitimate they can be when foisted by a figure of authority from above. I have one of those bios, but I can’t find it now. It’s in the library and I haven’t had time to reshelve in some weeks.
Since I’ve given most of the reading list already, you might wish to read “Kicking the Sacred Cow” by James P. Hogan, which, if read and absorbed, even if you don’t agree with everything he says, will give you a little more understanding into the world and how authority works.
And for the love of Heaven, stop sipping that koolaid.
According To Hoyt 
I’m not the mathematician
Neither am I, but I’d bet money I don’t have that the figure Dan would come up with; would be appropriately astronomical.
Wolfie
LikeLike
I haven’t bothered to look back for the original post that seems to have provoked the trolls. I remember it quite well and made me think that you and I would like each other very much if we ever have the opportunity to meet.
Or, as my kids say, “You rock.” Or maybe they don’t say that anymore. I can’t keep up.
LikeLike
BTW, the email link you have posted on your website is not working.
LikeLike
I’m so sorry. I’ll ask Dan to check on it.
Sarah
LikeLike
Sarah — next time I have trouble with the school, I’m coming to you. Put another way, don’t hold back, tell us how you really feel. I gotta ask, though–what’s the thing with the pronouns? I’ve seen some weird literary quirks in teachers. My fourth grade teacher had an irrational, rabid aversion to the word “got.” I have got to hear about the pronoun quirk.
I’ve read a lot of material by aspiring writers who have been ruined by bad teachers who gave them A’s for pompous writing instead of teaching them how to write clearly and readably. The saddest thing is that their own natural writing, with a spell checker and a grammar checker applied, was probably far better than what remained after the mutilation that often passes for education. I say this taking full account of how bad grammar checkers are.
If she really does have this pronoun problem, then I can’t say I’d cry if this ended up bringing her superiors’ attention to it.
Academic freedom is one thing. Mutilating kids future writing ability is another. It’s unlikely that any of them other than Robert will go on to write professionally, but in their professional lives they will have to write. That’s just like a speech teacher forcing all her students to develop and use, day in day out, a speech impediment–all the while telling them that it is better speech.
Please, make me feel better. Tell me I’m imagining a larger pronoun quirk than the woman has.
Otherwise? Someone needs to make her stop.
LikeLike
I have a boss who writes in bureaucratese. When I put out an IT advisory, it’s supposed to be copy-edited. I’ve had a few situations where I’ve had to verbally bludgeon the woman, to keep my writing in English. For instance, she insists on things like “Utilize” instead of “Use”.
Bleh. I also make a point of mocking those who’ve been bitten in the ass by spellcheckers.
LikeLike
this is the quality of American education?
Sarah. Stop it. All they done is shown themselves ignorant, ill-read, rather stupid little camp-followers (you say these the bright kids? Either American education is in a worse case than the rest of the world thought, or the school needs to start IQ testing and quit kiss-up testing) and waste your valuable time. Your replies provide them with satisfaction. Leave them alone and they can back their normal pastimes (I am too polite to say what their intellect says that must be, but I wasn’t aware you lived in a port city) They’re too stupid to cope with intelligent argument, or they wouldn’t be posting. Their comments are a shocking indictment of your school system and disgrace both themselves, their teacher and their country in the eyes of a far wider world – something they don’t grasp really exists and reads this. Maybe they need someone to teach them this?
I was a professional statistician, and the chances are higher of the coin turning into a pink fluffy duck mid air.
LikeLike
I would not be suprised if it was.
I have a fairly low opinion of the school system here. On the other hand, I don’t think I turned out too badly. (I do not think that the schools have all that much of the credit or the blame where I am concerned.) :) I think our Engineering programs at the college level are pretty good.
LikeLike
Re: I would not be suprised if it was.
I would say most people who go on to make something of themselves teach themselves, later in life. One thing I like about the US is the dizzying availability of stuff to learn that you can get relatively cheap — from lectures on tape to local adult education courses, etc.
I’m very fond of the “Teaching Company” stuff, which I’m using not only for Eric’s curriculum, but, when I can swing the money, for my fun. They’re not bad used on ebay, particularly on tape — instead of cd/dvd. My current “course”, listened to while I clean the house, is a series on WWI.
As for public education… well… the number of people I know who homeschool is multiplying every year. It’s a particular problem for gifted children — or rather, gifted children of an independent turn of mind. The amount of button-counting has grown to be almost all, in the last five years. It seems that when we meet other adults with children, this is all we talk about anymore. I hear groups of moms at the coffee shop rant about how their kids aren’t learning and how they’re being treated — and about how all that counts is filling in blank a with pen c. Frankly, I’m shocked this isn’t out in the open more, though I’m starting to see why after the bully-tactics employed on this blog.
When Robert was in fourth grade, they MADE him write a letter to the president. Without asking me. The teacher was more than mildly suprised when the letter was not about whatever points they’d covered in school, but instead went on and on about steel tariffs and how they really should be calibrated and in what way although “no tariffs and other means of helping national industry would be preferable”, etc. (Unbeknownst to the teacher, this was then Robert’s obsession of the month. He was reading stuff on it that even I didn’t get — besides having no interest whatsoever in it.) That I know they haven’t tried this since. With him. I’m sure they try it with other kids.
However, teachers giving “talking points” for a letter writing campaign is fairly common.
I HOPE these poor saps are — at least — getting extra credit. I feel suddenly very depressed.
LikeLike
Re: I would not be suprised if it was.
General comment from one of the most brilliant men I have ever met – who happened to be American. I paraphrase. “Schooling’s patchy but the tertiary education is still mostly excellent.”
LikeLike
Re: this is the quality of American education?
Unfortunately, Dave, IQ doesn’t seem to have a lot of correlation with backbone. Backbone is a prerequisite for independent thinking. Being a faster, more committed lemming is usually what lemmings mistake for backbone. Some of the trolls posting have the supercilious arrogance of the young, smart kiss-up. I remember acting like that sometimes when I was a kid, before I grew a good dose of skepticism and started realizing everybody is complex, and flawed.
Most of them won’t grow out of it, much. Just about every adult human is a lemming. Milgram proved that. Some of them are less lemming-like than others, and I hope something of what Sarah says will lurk in the back of their heads and sink in a bit over the years.
The other day, I got an email from one of my child’s teachers complaining that my child had gotten upset and “made a ‘mean face'” at another teacher that day. Tell me about bad behavior, please, but a ‘mean face’ is not bad behavior.
The idea that it is comes from the same myth: “You must respect authority.” No, it is dangerous to “respect authority.” I require my daughter to behave respectfully towards someone in authority while she is under that authority. I require her to behave respectfully towards other human beings in general–the same thing I require of myself.
Then there’s the other dangerous old saw: “You must respect the position, if not the holder of it.” That sounds less pernicious, but it really isn’t. A position is a job. Not all jobs that convey power over other people are deserving of respect. In some cases, there are power jobs whose very existence is repugnant to human dignity, human freedom, and human decency.
Those positions may have to be treated with surface respect in the interest of practical self-preservation, or in the interest of picking your battles, but it’s an important element of critical thinking to look closely at every power job (position of authority) you come into contact with. It’s important to cultivate the habit of paying attention to authority, not for the purpose of respecting it, but for the purpose of dissecting it.
Is it legitimate authority? If so, why–where does that legitimacy come from? If it comes from some other authority, then where does that authority’s legitimacy come from? Once you trace that back to power’s ultimate antecedents, then there are all kinds of questions about whether the power is being legitimately applied, or is a good idea, or is even inherently bad.
You know all this. Sarah knows this. I know this.
Nobody ever taught these kids that positions of authority should have to qualify for their respect, and that respect is not an all or nothing thing. Nobody ever taught these kids that it’s not only okay to limit professional respect for a particular teacher based on his or her level of competence, it’s also okay to limit their respect for the position of teacher itself based on the recognition that the system has feet of clay.
Nobody ever taught these kids the difference between the dispassionate opinion of “I respect this” or “I don’t respect that”, versus the emotion “I like this” or “I don’t like that”, versus the behavior of treating other human beings with courtesy and dignity.
What they’ve been taught is “respect for authority” is actually reverence for the position of authority if they hate the person in it, and reverence towards the person in authority if they like that person.
They like this teacher. Everything they’ve been taught from the first sip of their mothers’ milk is that they’re “bad kids” if they don’t revere this woman just because she’s the biggest, most intimate government authority figure in their young lives this year—a teacher—and she’s likable.
LikeLike
Re: this is the quality of American education?
This isn’t a matter of IQ. It’s a matter of indoctrination. Sarah has that exactly right, and she’s right that it’s frightening.
Very few parents have done with their children as I’ve done with my Katie: “Katie, people are going to tell you that you have to respect authority, or respect the position if not the person. That’s crap. You have to treat authority figures, and everyone else, with dignity and respect–within limits. You do not have to feel respect for someone just because of who they are, or for some position just because it’s an authority. If you don’t feel respect, that is a-okay. You must behave respectfully, but your respect is yours to give or withhold. Real respect is earned, and nobody has any right to decide who’s earned the feeling of respect from you but you.”
Has anyone ever told these children that? Much less told it to them in a way where they would really believe they aren’t being “good kids” or “better kids” if they rationalize some reason to “respect” every authority figure they trip over? Has anyone ever told them that they can like someone in an authority position, and respect her as a person, and enjoy interacting with her, without donning blinders about her strengths and weaknesses on the job? Have they ever been encouraged to evaluate, as more than an opportunity to “validate” and kiss ass, what a teacher’s areas of strength and weakness are?
I love martial arts. I pay a lot to a dojo each month so I can take martial arts there. It’s nice that I like the instructor. I wouldn’t want to work with him if I hated him. However, there’s more to it than him being a good instructor or a poor instructor. To study martial arts effectively, I have to evaluate what this instructor is great at, what he’s good at, and what he’s weak in. Every teacher of everything has these strengths and weaknesses. To get the most out of a teacher, you have to assess the teacher so you gain the most from his strengths without training in his weaknesses and compounding them on top of your own inherent weaknesses.
As adults, we pay people to teach us things all the time. People we choose, people we hire. We don’t just evaluate them before we hire them, we evaluate them while we’re studying with them. If we don’t, we don’t learn worth a crap, because all teachers have things they’re saying you should really pay attention to, and weaknesses where you should try to learn that bit from the teacher down the road.
Nobody has ever taught these kids how to get the most out of a class by assessing a teacher’s strengths and weaknesses–bluntly and dispassionately–studying the heck out of her strengths, and taking her weaknesses with a great big grain of salt.
They’re not stupid. They didn’t make themselves into ass-kissers. They’re mis-indoctrinated and mal-trained.
LikeLike
Re: this is the quality of American education?
That borders on the scary. Nanny-state stuff. I have been accused of being rabidly anti-authoritarian. This is only sometimes correct incidentally :-) I suppose the core tenet of my philosophy is that respect needs to be earned. Authority stems from respect, and respect cannot be conferred, or inherited. It has to be earned. I don’t always like those I have come to respect, but I seldom like those I cannot respect. And the old saw, respect the uniform not the man… comes full circle in a way. It is then up to those gave the rank/uniform to make damnty sure the uniform/rank holder is worthy of respect.
LikeLike
Re: this is the quality of American education?
The chances of remaining a well-adjusted bright kid in our public education system are sitting right next to that fluffy pink duck.
LikeLike
Chang and Halliday’s Mao: The Unknown Story is pretty good, even if it is kind of grim and upsetting. Chang also wrote Wild Swans, which is about her experiences in the cultural revolution. I haven’t read Wild Swans, but I know it has been used as course material in a modern Chinese history course by a professor I respect.
I do not know much of anything about the English language, and cannot really comment on that part of things.
Given some of my guesses about what certain of my ancestors got up to, I’d really resent any suggestion that I’d in any way be obligated to follow in their footsteps. I am found of the statement that if guilt were heritable, everyone would carry enough to be put to death.
LikeLike
THANK YOU!
Wild Swans is the book I was trying to think of. I came to Chinese history late and I confess to being very ignorant in it, only having studied it/read it for about 9 year and even though it takes up almost a full bookcase.
As for ancestors… yeah. I fully agree with you. (of course.)
LikeLike
I failed to sign my comment — I’m Mike and am currently a senior.
LikeLike
Again, Mike, thank you for stepping forward and identifying yourself.
LikeLike
Thank you for having the courage, and the integrity, to identify yourself in the next post. That is more than the others from the school have done.
LikeLike
An Annotated List of Books
This is an annotated list of the books Sarah recommended as reading:
_The Name of the Rose_ by Umberto Eco
This is a book about bibliophilia. It’s a book about sophophobia. It’s a book about censorship. It’s a book about love. It’s a book about distrust. It’s a book about a vision of God. Love him or loathe him –I do both, depending on the book– Umberto Eco brings riveting intricacy to the philosophical debates at the heart of his books. If you like _The Name of the Rose_ (I did) you might want to try _Foucault’s Pendulum_. Which I hated, for reasons I won’t go into here.
_The Gulag Archipelago_ by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
What is it really like to only be able to criticize privately? What is the difference between respect, fear, and agreement? What are the dangers of sycophancy? What does hope do to the hopeless? What happens when government is not accountable? The Gulag Archipelago is an examination of the Soviet internment camp system, and of government by terror. If five- hundred-some pages seems too much for you, at least read Solzhenitsyn’s _One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich_. It doesn’t cover the societal consequences nearly as well, but it does cover a single day of a life lived within a society where criticism must be private as the grave.
_On Writing_ by Steven King. I admit that I was skeptical before I picked this up. I don’t like Steven King’s fiction writing. Violent horror leaves me annoyed at the waste of my time. I prefer Shirley Jackson for horror, or Orson Scott Card’s early short fiction. But this isn’t a book on learning to write like Steven King. It’s a two-fer. It’s a writer’s autobiography, and it’s also a handbook on writing commercial fiction. Read it, even if you don’t have a life’s ambition of writing commercial fiction.
_The Elements of Style_ Strunk and White
Get the little book! Really. If there is a single must-read book in the recommended list, it is Strunk and White. But please apply it, rather than just purchase it.
The little book is a cogent breakdown of clean style, boiled down to as few rules as possible. It is not a manual of style, such as the Chicago Manual of Style, or the Oxford Style Manual. Those are exhaustive rule books that try to address many possible cases. Instead, Strunk and White is a manual for getting style out of the way of a good authorial voice. Strunk and White is useful for writers of both fiction and non-fiction. If you want a prescriptive manual to help you with the rules of academic writing, use the latest edition of Diana Hacker’s _Writer’s Reference_. Hacker, however, will not help you find a clear voice. Strunk and White will.
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Browne and Dave King
I don’t care if you don’t want to write fiction. Read this book anyway. Why? It makes clear that there may be no such thing as a great writer. Instead, there are great re-writers. Learn the skills. Apply the skills to fiction and non-fiction. Make your prose sing.
The Writer’s Art by James Kilpatrick
Alas, I have not read it.
Cartoon Guide to Statistics by Larry Gonick
This book got me a job offer, once. I had a temp job as an engineering assistant to three reliability engineers in an industrial setting. After I’d collected data, entered data, and run a few regressions on the mainframe, I realized that there was something missing. I brought both my calculus-based statistics textbook and Gonick’s book to work the next day, and spent my lunch hours over the next few days figuring out where there was a statistical hole. Sure enough, when that missing data was teased out, it pointed out a potentially costly problem. the reliability engineer’s boss was not trained in statistical analysis, himself. When he asked how I’d figured things out, I showed him both books. He read Gonick. He then recommended me for a job as a rel engineer, at a nice salary.
Even if Larry Gonick doesn’t get you a job, read all his books. Read them because they mill ideas down to the meaty kernel. Read them because they have wonderful bibliographies. Read them because they’re funny. Don’t read them in public, unless you want people to see you snickering and taking notes, simultaneously.
Continued
LikeLike
Can I just say a few things?
1) It’s really sad that you’re attacking (don’t deny it, that is essentially what you’re doing) someone online when you could just talk to them face-to-face. After all, that would be the mature and adult thing to do.
2) Everyone who has an opinion that differs from yours is automatically berated and insulted by you.
3) My view is that it is extremely unprofessional that the link from your professional website leads to a website where you are shown to be very immature, rude and nasty about a situation/person that should have nothing to do with your career.
Personally, I think it’s despicable that you feel you need so much attention that you spend as much time and effort as is evidenced above and in previous posts responding to students who are only trying to get an education.
LikeLike
Is that a mote in your eye?
Sophie (Can I call you Sophie?), let me give you a few answers while our hostess works her butt off this weekend.
1. For all we know, Sarah did talk to the teacher. She posted (in September) some thoughts about why an assignment that her son was complaining about was problematical. Several months later, someone or a group of someones chose to make this a cause celebre through what appears to be deliberate coordinated online harassment and attacks. She has responded at length to anonymous attacks, I believe in the hope that someone might learn something.
And as has been noted repeatedly, the teacher has not been identified, not even the school has been identified. That makes any notion of attack tenuous, at best.
2. Berated and insulted? Despite repeated anonymous postings that start with attempted insults, various verbal attacks, and so forth, Sarah has maintained a pretty high tone in her responses. Take a look at what you are protecting, okay? Even the cops like to find out who threw the first punch.
3. One of the links from her website at http://www.sarahahoyt.com/ does lead to this blog. And indeed, the commentary indicates “You can also get a peek into my life and my mind in my blog.” Many professional writers and others have found such an informal meeting with their fans useful. Unfortunately, providing email, blog, and other links does sometimes lead to attacks and harassment, which costs all of us.
Incidentally, is your post intended to be an exercise in irony? It seems unlikely that you could make the first two assertions and then follow them with that extended third point without being intentionally ironic. You might want to take a look at your own LJ before pointing too many fingers at Sarah.
LikeLike
meatloaf_lives aka Sophie, you are certainly welcome to say a few things. It’s such a pity the things you chose to say demonstrate such a tragic lack of understanding.
Let’s take it a point at a time.
Point 1. As Sarah has stated repeatedly – and been repeatedly ignored – she did not attack anyone online. I know Sarah fairly well, and trust me, when she attacks it’s not easy to miss. A little gentle teasing of egotistical puffery is not an attack. An attack would include posting samples of the other party’s expertise and dissecting it online. Having seen samples, I can assure you that the dissection would not be at all attractive.
Note also that anyone who shows up in someone else’s virtual space, lacks the courage to say anything under their own name, and launches immediately into their phase of what is clearly a coordinated attack has forfeited any right to polite consideration in addition to opening themselves to counterattack.
You clearly assume that Sarah is in a position to talk face to face with whichever person you believe she has attacked. This can’t be the many students who have posted anonymously, since they weren’t considerate enough to leave her with that option. The thread where most of the brave nony mice are posting is months old, and does not contain anything worse than some amusing observations that aren’t even identifiable unless one already knows the person in question. It would take a completely self-centered, insecure moron to interpret that post as a personal attack – so perhaps you could consider the possibility that you have been directed here and duped by a self-centered, insecure moron?
Point 2. Really? You’ve read every post on this blog and every comment and every response? Do you really think even that much research qualifies you to make such a blanket judgment? I’m disappointed. Let me guarantee you – PERSONALLY – that Sarah does not berate and insult everyone who disagrees with her. She even allows other people to disagree with her in public without berating or insulting them.
You probably don’t realize that Sarah and many of her friends are bibliophiles and English geeks. When people decide to use her blog as a forum to laud the talents of their English teacher, and do so – anonymously – in barely literate prose, those people are going to attract a little negative attention. If you want to see what berating and insulting looks like, I suggest you visit http://www.madmikein08.com/ and take a look at Mad Mike’s definitions of stupid.
(to be continued)
Kate
LikeLike
Point three. You are, of course, entitled to your view. I would suggest that you reconsider it in the light of a few salient facts:
– Sarah is human. She is not an automated writing machine. Like any human, things that affect her family also affect her.
– Sarah has lived under repressive governments. Real repressive governments. They’re still finding the mass graves of people who were ‘disappeared’. The USA is still a free country, where people are allowed to say what they please. Suggesting that Sarah has no right to post her opinions and to make fun of situations she finds absurd is not a wise thing to do. She just might decide to argue with you. She states clearly on her professional website that this is a personal blog which will contain family anecdotes and poking fun at the idiocy permeating so many public institutions. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
Finally, you can’t have read that much or you would have noticed that the students trying to get an education are responding to a post made months ago. Given the level of literacy and comprehension demonstrated by these poor hardworking students, I respectfully suggest that there are better ways for them to get an education. Ways like… oh, studying.
Now, read down a few posts to where Sarah says quite clearly that she does not want to have to deal with this kind of stupidity. When she has anonymous messages coming in every few minutes, all saying the same thing, and all of them feeling they need to bring out the heavy weaponry of swear words (oh, my. Someone said “fuck”. I think I shall faint.) if their puerile rantings aren’t posted, she has legitimate reason to complain.
In short, madam, this is not an author being nasty to some poor student. It is a coordinated piece of harassment which is being dealt with as such. The choicer pieces of harassment are being left on public display to show the sterling quality of the education system in Sarah’s region.
Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.
If you wish to try reasoned discussion, you might actually convince someone to listen. Otherwise, expect to be hoist upon your own failed snarkage.
Kate
LikeLike
I’m tired of toddler-like ploys for attention
I had hoped to put an end to this issue but, obviously, I was wrong. Turning off anonymous postings and logging IP addresses didn’t work. So, here is the last, last word. No discussion. No bellyaching allowed.
Anonymous posts will not be allowed. Period.
Even if you’re posting with an LJ ID, if you are addressing points already successfully and repeatedly discarded, your message shall henceforth be erased and your ID banned.
End of discussion.
LikeLike
Re: I’m tired of toddler-like ploys for attention
Yeah, I’m mean, nasty and bad, wha, wah, wah. I’ve already admitted I’m a bitch, what more do you want? This blog is not a playground nor a democracy. It’s my property and I get to choose how it’s governed. This is an an oligarchy, and in this case, I am the oligarch. Now go and find something more productive to do with your life than to exhibit your pitiful lack of thought, manners and interesting personality to adults who are tired of you.
There’s the reading list. If that’s beyond your reach consider watching The Lives Of Others. It might tell you something about what happens when private citizens can’t criticize those in power in any public forum.
So run along. I have work to do, and if I wanted to listen to children, I’d talk to my thirteen year old.
LikeLike