The Game Isn’t Worth The Candle

Posted on by Sarah A. Hoyt

As the armies range on the side of Trump or the side of DeSantis; as heated words flow; as each side is incredulous the other can be in earnest — other than finding myself vaguely amused at American Greatness and their attempt at running equal and countering editorials for one or the other — all I can do is shake my head and think that the game isn’t worth the candle.

Look, I have a mild preference for Trump, simply because I’ve seen how he governed. And because DeSantis is a career politician. Yes, you can be shocked at that, but not if you understand what I view as the only function a President not sold to China can perform in the present place and time to be a lance to the heart of the status quo.

You shouldn’t be shocked at this. I know I try to be a voice for calm, and perhaps more than any of you I am aware of the price one pays for civil disorder. But I also know better than any of you what international socialists can do to a country, and there is a very angry part of me that wants to burn it all down.

That’s not what I am for though, when I say I want a lance to the heart of the status quo. A president as such a lance has the enormous advantage of exposing the rot and the corruption, of removing masks and doing it without overt violence. It gives people a chance to wake up and maybe stir us off the rocks. I think we were headed towards that and a less apocalyptic convulsion in 2020 when the left played their most evil game yet.

And before you tell me that Trump isn’t who he was, or that his 2016 campaign was much better than today’s, let me PSHAW loudly. LOUDLY. Have you forgotten his alleged twitter tweeting out a Nazi symbol on the fourth. Have you forgotten the message tweeted out saying that he loved Mexican food, and had got some from the restaurant on Trump tower, showing a badly Photoshop photograph of his eating a taco salad. There is no such restaurant and the Photoshop was so bad he had three hands.

Those were almost certainly the result of his campaign being infiltrated in the same way that his later administration was infiltrated. And those who say “Why can’t he hire good people?” Well, because he has to hire from a pool of people who do political campaigns, and trust me on this, all of those are at least soft left. Also for the “He hires people and then he fires them” — well yes. His training is in business. That’s what one does in business. It is in fact something we could use more of in politics.

However his campaign in 16 was such a sh*tshow I was sure it was a front and even more sure that if he were elected he would be only slightly better than Hilary Clinton.

His own words didn’t help. I’m told that throwing out hot words and crazy accusations is the New York state of mind, to coin a phrase, but seriously. Has every one of you forgotten Trump himself accusing the Ted Cruz’s father of killing JFK? Because I haven’t.

I finally decided to vote for him on the day before the election and only because of three things: Two of them were earnest talks by L. Neil Smith and Jerry Pournelle who told me I should. Look, if those two agreed, it was time.

The other was an earnest analysis that told me he was SLIGHTLY less likely to have me shot on the back of the head than Hillary Clinton would. Note, I didn’t expect it to be UNLIKELY. Only slightly less likely.

However, his presidency was glorious in many ways, even with all the resistance he faced, and that’s enough to give me a very weak preference for Trump. Very weak, in fact, because I’ve not forgiven him for falling for the Covidiocy yet. He should have pulled a Reagan and gone to the people. Let the intelligentsia pillory him, but go to the people and scream from the rooftops that this was nothing. Keep hammering the numbers and how hollow they were, and how this was a psi-ops from China.

Would he have sounded crazy? Possibly. But if I could take the people — even people I liked — coming by to tell me I was crazy or evil, certainly he could. He should have shouted the truth and shamed the devil.

Except that he FELL FOR THE SCAM and remains convinced.

I don’t understand it, except that in talking to friends the other day, we realized in our group, the ones that believed in the covidiocy wholesale are for lack of a better term, the Paladins. The people who can’t conceptualize utter evil.

Because the covidiocy psi ops, as it becomes obvious that the death rate didn’t really go up, that no one died of it who wasn’t going to die of any flu or other rampant virus, and that all the measures deployed for it did nothing and were often counterproductive, does nothing — nothing — but convince me it was an evil plan by the Democrats in conjunction with Chinese idiots. (Idiots because they don’t understand, even now, that if America falls they starve. What Marxist education does for you.)

Perhaps I am the only person who remembers how desperate, in Jan of 2020 the left was for something to wreck the economy or they couldn’t defeat Trump. Well, they found it. I don’t know if on purpose or not but they were clearly willing to extend an economy-killing lock down which btw destroyed the economies of other countries as well, just to get their vote by mail and fraud their hag-ridden, brain dead zombie in. (They knew vote by mail and machines could do it, because that’s how they took over Colorado, which they admit is their model for taking over the rest of the country.)

The sheer evil of the operation, even without getting to pumping an experimental vaccine of a type that had never worked into as many veins as they could by mandate, is simply impossible for the good people of the world to conceive of.

And trust me, this is not in Trump’s favor as I say it: that man must be the most unlikely Simon-Pure-Paladin to walk the Earth. I’ve already been floored at how friggin’ clean he is that all their digging has not found anything terrible in his past. But his inability to grasp the sheer unmitigated evil of the psi-ops run against him puts the cap on it. I salute him, and I wish he’d grow a little more suspicious and paranoid, because this is ridiculous.

DeSantis? Yeah, he has done well for Florida. But how most of you view him has had a good bit of help from adversarial media. Or is the media truly adversarial? Have they learned — or think they learned — that we’ll run towards whomever they attack? Because I’ll note their attacks gave DeSantis credit for not locking down and challenging the Covidiocy but lots of other states did it. In fact there might be more states that did it than not. People from Iowa are known to huff when Florida is extolled in this respect, and heck, people, in crossing the country by car in the fall of 2020 I found most people weren’t actually locked down. They only had an iron grip on the states they meant to steal (and which mostly had leftist governors.)

Now, what do I have against him?

Not a lot. He’s a career politician. Is that enough to damn him? Probably. Look, we’ve had mostly career politicians as presidents in the 20th and early 21st, and look where they have taken us. Look, I can’t be the only conservative looking at all the wars — in the face of how “easy” it was for Trump to get the Abraham accords and start clipping China’s wings — and wonder if we were rooked for over 100 years. Yes, I know it’s not that simple.

But it’s entirely possible that the politician way of thinking is…. towards the kind of cycle we’ve endured for a century.

And then there’s “he does things”. He does. He flexes his muscles. He goes after — mostly — targets for social conservatives. Look, I’m not even kicking too hard on this. The left has gone far enough that social conservatism is needed.

On the other hand, on the other hand…. That’s in Florida. So, say we send DeSantis to DC….

I must ask, clearly: What pool do you think DeSantis will hire from? No, seriously. Very seriously. “Oh, he’ll bring his own people” — snort giggle — those will have fun against the permanent bureaucracy in DC. Those who can’t be corrupted will be destroyed, but there’s a lot of money and favors in DC which will buy most of them. They will be eaten.

And he’s already hiring from the GWB school of election consultants. And he’s getting donations from establishment Republicans. Now, he can no more control that than I can control who reads me and reviews me.

But…. but it worries me. They are donating because they either think they can control him, or they can use him to explain away the loss in the elections as not fraud. (And if you think they wouldn’t like to do that….)

And if they control him, if the establishment succeeds in using him, the best we can hope for him is the jackboot in the other foot. Authoritarianism for causes we like. It’s still Spinach, and it should still go to heck.

Against him, personally, I have but one thing: He’s engaged in underhanded attacks, to get Trump to respond and SEEM to be attacking him for no reason. Yes, I do realize it’s a good strategy to raise his profile. It’s also unspeakably SLIMY.

And if you’re going to say I can’t be against one of them for being a G-d blessed paladin and the other for using slimy tactics? Watch me. Yes, I can.

In many ways yes, DeSantis would be a better manager for what the American State has become.

But that’s not why we voted for Trump. We didn’t want a manager, we want an IED in the heart of the establishment.

I will submit to you we can’t have Trump without the negative stuff. Heck, do you remember what they said about milquetoast Pierre Delecto during the campaign? They’ll find things to say about DeSantis if he’s the nominee. And they will be horrifying.

And if he actually DOES oppose the establishment on the right? Yeah, you’ll find really quick that he’s mean, evil and has tons of things they can attack.

HOWEVER AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: if DeSantis is the nominee, I’ll crawl over broken glass smeared with lemon juice to vote for him.

Because I’m not sure my beloved country can take much more of the international socialists.

There are people supposedly running I won’t vote for because I don’t trust them even against the international socialists. Yes, I’m looking at Pence and Chris Christie. But I’ll vote for DeSantis without blinking.

And yet the game isn’t worth the candle.

Why? Because you know and I know that all this fighting will just give the left an excuse for when the zombie wins with four hundred million votes.

America has electile dysfunction. And until we fix that, none of this — none of this — matters.

Until we get the fraud out, we can vote to make us feel better, but it will make no difference. It just gives them excuses.

Until we get the fraud out, all we can do is build under, build over, build around.

Oh, sure, vote. Make them work for the fraud. But don’t get too excited about who’s running on our side.

Chances are we won’t be voting for a champion sans peur and sans reproche, but for someone who is slightly less repulsive than Zhoe Bai Den, by the grace of Hell Xi the Poo’s vice-roi in the USA.

And that it won’t do us any good. We must do it nonetheless. Force to fraud ridiculously, in front of G-d and everybody. AGAIN.

Meanwhile…. Meanwhile be not afraid, and do your best so we might, maybe, get our republic back, if not in our lifetime, in the lifetime of our kids.

Go build.

255 thoughts on “The Game Isn’t Worth The Candle”

  1. Pretty much where I am, though I do think well of DeSantis. I wish sincerely these guys were working together, but I am firmly in ABB (anybody but Biden) mode.
    I find it interesting Frank Fleming is turning out Mid-Journey “portraits,” of DeSantis making various plays on his name. And I do dislike the ugly nicknames Trump and his camp are turning out.

    1. Look, it’s a NYC thing…
      And honestly? What I didn’t add is that Trump has an enormous, maybe unbeatable advantage: EVERYONE KNOWS HIM.
      It might have been what propelled him to victory in 16.

      2. And along with that wide name-recognition lurks another underappreciated but immense advantage that’s (almost?) unique to Trump: He raises his own money, mostly from a “base” that came in either before they saw him as President, or after.

        In some (limited and incomplete) ways, Trump is “really” a third-party candidate (he’s surely not a ‘GOP insider’ which as A Thing gets worse and worse by the day now) with his own ways to finance and operate ‘indepedent’ of the party… only he’s taking their electoral ‘slot’ by winning the primary, so they can’t run anyone against him, and nobody can support “the Party’s candidate” without supporting him. (Which could be seen, from the right angle, as an absolutely genius variation on the standard, and hard, third-party shtick. Cuckoo! Cuckoo!)

        DeSantis… is not. Any of that.

        This might explain why, after its working 2 times out of 2, the GOP-Establishment seems to be so very, very hot on DeSantis — they want it to stop, badly, so very very badly.

        1. Not all of the establishment. Ace (who has grown increasingly unhappy with Trump over the last several months) has been noting some former Never Trumpers that are now Never DeSantis. Strange New Respect achieved by Trump. 😛

          At least until the Republican Primary is over, of course.

          1. Both Trump and DeSantis are just excuses. What the “Nevers” really are, but will never say out loud, is “Never any outsider”. Their slush bucket is in jeopardy, and We Simply Can’t Have That!

                  1. When DeSantis announced, Ace linked and quoted a Hot Air post (which unfortunately requires a membership). One of the bits he quoted was this pearl of ignorance from Bill Kristol –

                    “DeSantis was always on Fox when Rupert was for him. Now he announces on Twitter when Elon’s for him. Kind of Beta, no?

                    Trump does CNN town hall, goes into the (pseudo-) lion’s den. Looks kind of Alpha, no?”

                    At least some of the Nevertrumpers are talking up Trump in relation to DeSantis. They won’t vote for either in the general. But for the moment, they’re talking up the former president over the current governor.

                    1. Another Twitter theory, fwiw, is at least some ostensible Never-Trumpers want him to be the nominee and possibly even win, because their whole fundraising shtick is based on their “principled opposition,” to Trump. So they’ll support him through the primaries so they can then oppose him in the general, raising money all the while.

                    2. Trump’s initial nomination in 2016 is believed to have been supported at least in part by lefties who thought Trump would be an easier candidate for Hillary to defeat than, say, Jeb Bush. I would be surprised if there aren’t a least a few “Nevers” who are “supporting” one candidate or the other based strictly on the same sort of thinking, but for the 2024 election.

      3. (See longer comment, mysteriously stuck in moderation, but…)

        Not just (priceless) name-recognition, and by now track record. Also he raises his own money, which makes him extra subversive even running as a major-party candidate. And thus much harder to ‘tame’ unlike just about anyone else, e.g. DeSantis.

          1. And is also what gives him the disadvantage among others, even others With Us. Whether it’s the bump stock thing (Trump’s not a Gun Guy and doesn’t understand gun guys or how they think, and was too willing to listen to those he thought did understand) or the covid issue (try explaining that the President doesn’t have the power to do things to people who just watched Biden Do Things, even things that he absolutely had no right or business doing), there are folks who may be more skeptical now than they were a few years ago.

            And DeSantis has a record of getting things done, too.

          2. Yep. I watched Trump operate for four years, and on the strength of that not perfect but shockingly good performance, voted for him in 2020 (in 2016, I voted for a third-party nebbish as a protest). And because I know that what he’s already done is likely to be what he’ll do again, and I hope he’ll do even better, I’m going to vote for Trump again, and I’ll pull that damn lever as hard as any American has ever pulled it for anybody this side of George Washington.

      4. Honestly, I’m not sure Trump is playing to win. He could literally say “remember how much better things were when I was in office? When I was beating China and Russia like rented mules? And when I showed you just how corrupt the media are?” and more or less win instantly. What he’s doing… it’s amusing as hell, but not really a winning play, I think.

    2. My daughter wonders if it isn’t a planned fake controversy between Trump and Biden – just as a deep distraction and fake-out. Twisty, if true…
      I also think well of DeSantis. Being the governor of a not-inconsequential state is probably better prep for the highest office then having been a bench-warmer in the Senate or House for a term or two or three.

      2. I know people who felt the Cruz vs Trump stuff in the 2016 primaries was all wrestling kayfabe, so I don’t feel like your daughter’s position is an unreasonable one.

        1. It’s interesting that you bring Trump-Cruz in 2016 up.

          What a lot of people forget is that Cruz was really hated by the GOPe in 2016. As Mr GOPe, Bob Dole, put it:

          Bob Dole said Wednesday that Ted Cruz at the top of the GOP ticket would mean “wholesale losses” for the party in Washington and across the country.

          “I don’t know how he’s going to deal with Congress,” Dole said in an interview with The New York Times. “Nobody likes him.”

          Dole, a former Kansas senator, was the Republican Party’s presidential nominee in 1996.

          Donald Trump would “probably work with Congress,” though, Dole mused, because he’s “kind of a deal maker.”

          Dole characterized Cruz as an “extremist” unwilling to work with his own party. The Times’ Maggie Haberman notes that Dole’s comments reflect a larger tension that establishment Republicans feel with Cruz, who portrays himself on the campaign trail as their antithesis.

          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/01/20/bob-dole-ted-cruz-donald-trump/79079408/

          They knew Cruz wouldn’t compromise; they figured Trump would —- and they might have been right, except they couldn’t help dissing him, and Trump wasn’t going to take that from anyone.

          Now, Trump is in the Cruz position, and DeSantis is the one the GOPe likes, for the same reason, they think or know he can be compromised. How sure are we they are wrong?

          1. I respected Dole’s service, but he was a, “it’s his turn, he’s done his time,” candidate and never realized he didn’t really have a chance. I sat with a group of my in-laws from Massachusetts and listened to them dismiss him as just, “completely unworthy,” of the office, obviously, and it was just, “silly,” to think of voting for him.
            My beloved, happily, did not agree. We don’t have much contact with them any more. (The, “How you people must be suffering, you aren’t masking or locking down and the people you live among are too ignorant to know the right things to do,” attitude didn’t help matters).

        2. On the other hand, there are people who still won’t forgive Cruz for waiting until the convention to declare support for Trump.

  2. My friend asked why I wanted Trump again. My response: “I don’t want a nice guy. I want a vindictive bully who is out for revenge.”

    I don’t blame Trump for not understanding that the federal government is a communist cesspool. I used to admire the FBI, for example. Now I wouldn’t stop to help if I saw one in grizzly country with their suit covered in huckleberry syrup. I know better now.

    1. According to a mutual family friend, the FBI really started to guzzle the DC political KoolAide during the ’90s. The last of the people that came up during the Hoover era were retiring, and a lot of the people that went up the ranks and to HQ were more partisan animals than usual. It was when Clinton and his buddies were pegging promotions on what made the AG very happy and making the AG very happy was white supremacy, guns, and “hate crimes.”

      The people that got promoted up stayed there, had friends in DOJ, and they kept going after the things that made the long-term staffers happy at DOJ-white nationalism, “hate crimes,” guns, white-collar criminals (especially if they were in Republican-strong areas), and similar things. Which is why 9/11 blindsided a lot of people-they weren’t white, they didn’t have guns, they were “good Moslem immigrants,” and the only other indicators were that they weren’t interested in landing planes and box-cutters in their luggage.

      When he left, he knew that Obama was going to quadruple-down on all the things that keep the AG and long-term DOJ staffers happy-“hate crimes,” guns, white-collar criminals, white nationalism, etc, etc, etc…

      1. The last of the people that came up during the Hoover era were retiring,

        I’m sorry; am I supposed to think of the Hoover people as the good guys?!?!?!?!

        1. No, but they were differently evil. And the evil tended to be restricted to various political field offices, whereas others were left to their own devices.

          And there was a class between times that was pretty clean.

          1. There were times when Hoover realized that certain actions would be counter-productive due to backlash.

            1. Hoover, for all of his sins, knew that eventually the dirty laundry would get out, and the best way to avoid the laundry coming out was to not have it in the first place.

        4. Re: “the Hoover people” as “good guys”: Compared to what they are now? Yeah, they were.

            2. So they were always as bad as they are today? OK, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

              That said, the fact that AFAIK there is no authority to create a national police force in the Constitution seems to me to be far more important. Maybe it’s an “emanation from a penumbra” sort of thing…

              1. Yes, actually.

                There was a legitimate cause for creating the FBI, but the primary reason was to be the president’s personal thugs.

              2. The closest thing we originally had to a “national police force” was the Coast Guard aka Revenue cutters, Then someone realized that you couldn’t have just anyone printing money, so we got the Secret Service, also under Treasury.

                Ultimately, it probably got sandwiched under the Commerce Clause. The logic used was summed up very succinctly by one Virgil Samms when he laid out the need for the Galactic Patrol. And he is right…. but without an Arisian Internal Affairs division, I doubt even Virgil Samms was going to be successful in keeping it uncorrupted.

                1. Well, since even Christ couldn’t keep all 13 disciples uncorrupted…

                  (Yeah, I know; theologically unsound. But it’s pithy. 🙂 )

        6. They’re relying on people forgetting the excesses of the FBI. The Palmer Raids, their influence on the HUAC hearings, illegal phone taps and break-ins, and a whole bunch of overseas adventures that don’t get mentioned much, mostly in South America. They haven’t run any operations so big in recent decades, but they’ve done a lot more of them, judging by what becomes public.

          Most people probably think the FBI is a law enforcement agency, unaware that it has always been political police.

    2. I don’t want a vindictive bully. We can’t afford one. The situation calls for cold, ruthless efficiency. A bully is too interested in his own pleasure to accomplish the mission.

        1. No, flame throwers are a good weapon in certain circumstances. But first, we need trump to be our warthog. Put him the oval office and let him go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT

          2. Assuming you mean the ugly critter with wings, not the ugly critter with tusks, nah. Flamethrowers are way cheaper to run than the GAU-8/A, and better for dealing with area targets at close range. 🙂

            The A10 is probably my favorite ground-attack aircraft of all time, but for multiple vermin at close range the flamethrower is better.

            1. Rifleman are the antidote for tyranny.

              If you lack a rifle, go buy one.

              If you can’t hit a paper plate at 150 yards, go practice.

              Yes, you. I don’t care if it’s a single shot 22. Go. Do.

      2. A little bit of a chip on the shoulder is good. Trump certainly had that from various things lobbed at him by Obama and H. Clinton. But this time he has gone to levels that make Inigo Montoya look unfocused. Trump, like many politicians (and to say that a big business president is NOT a politician is shading the truth and skates along the edge of an outright lie), is a mild to moderate narcissistic personality (The Democrat party tends to MAJOR narcissists c.f. Obama, B. Clinton). When let loose that personality causes kind of edge paranoia that we see in Trump. He has alienated nearly anyone who would want a position in his administration. His contacts within Congress are limited and there’s been a lot of unnecessary bridge burning there too. Much of what needs to be done (Fix the FBI, remove FISA, have an actual budget that is not racking up Trillion(s) a year in debt, fix the border and immigration issues, ) is NOT in the purview of the President and Executive. The president can fix SOME stuff with executive orders but this is a case where Teddy Roosevelt’s bully pulpit comes into play the president has to lead. Trump certainly can rouse (some) of the populace. But he has little influence with the people that hold the legislative reins and his style of chaotic racing around and domineering is not going to get him far. If he gets in he’ll sit and spin his wheels like last time, especially if there is any shift in the congress to the Democrats (legitimate or otherwise). Will Desantis do better ? Probably not but he might get traction in different places having working relationships with other red state governors. Honestly, if either Trump or DeSantis (or nearly anyone without a D after their name) is on the ticket they’ll have my vote. Not that it matters sitting here in Massachusetts where the D’s win pretty consistently without needing major fraud.

        Of course that’s problem one. You can’t successfully argue the case of fraud after the fact. You have to control fraud BEFORE by controlling the legislatures and controlling the voting process. Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania’s legislatures are failing that test. Here Florida through a variety of governors has led the way. In the 2000 election it was such a charlie foxtrot that we all sat around laughing at them. These days the broken areas (I.E. Blue) still are a nuisance and late but not so totally broken as before. As our hostess noted vote by mail is an invitation to fraud particularly if the (minimal) verification features are ignored. Early vote can be a pain too unless it is tightly controlled (essentially like day of in person voting).

        1. Over here in TX AG Ken Paxton is getting impeached precisely because he has been effective in prosecuting voter fraud.

          1. That one baffles me. Both Houses of the Texas legislature are republican (although not by a supermajority needed for quorum). Not sure how impeachment goes in Texas, but assuming a majority is sufficient to impeach then at least 11 (maybe 12 if it is majority+1) republicans needed to defect/side with the Democrat members for this to happen. We have our share of squish republicans here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but even they (with a few exceptions like ex governors who now live in the Senate) understand Reagans 11th commandment.

            As for prosecuting voter fraud that is a necessary but NOT sufficient action. As I noted once the “vote” is in you’re pretty much toast. Few (if any) judges are willing to overturn elections lest a precedent be set that comes back to bite them on the backside. More critical is to make sure that procedures to purge rolls, verify residences and similar tactics are put in place and then followed. More often than not that enforcement falls to Secretary of State in most executive layouts. And Soros has been hammering those as hard as he has elected prosecutors.

            1. We have a metric shit-ton of corrupt and neocon Republicans in Texas. Not as bad as the Democrats in the large Red cities like Austin, Dallas and Houston, but still corrupt.

            2. Basically, the Paxton impeachment is the TX iteration of Tea Party/MAGA vs NeverTrump GOPe, You can think of the Speaker as Vichy Mitchy in cowboy boots. Needless to say, the Democrats are backing the Speaker; they want all those illegal alien voters without a challenge.

              So we have sketchy charges, the Fibbies proividing “evidence” to the impeachment and the state court cases, SSDD.

            3. Sigh the I tend to view Neocons and NeverTrumpers as slightly different variants of the same species.

              The Neocons have more trust in the system than they ought given the last 40 years or so and a tendency to want to meddle in other peoples business thinking that Western style democracy will take off without the historical underpinnings of an Anglosphere view of law mixed with a more Northern European world model. They also still think their opponents play by the rules rather than play for power. They are misguided, well meaning and foolish, basically the epitome of useful idiots. I was once of their rank but time (and the reality of trying to fix the Mideast that way with Iran and Afghan) made it clear this was never going to work.

              The NeverTrumpers on the other hand are the cheese eating surrender monkeys of the Republican party. They have been adopted (minimally, if they step off the reservation they’ll be persona non grata in a New York Minute) by the Brahmandarins. Like quislings and apparatchiks everywhere they enjoy the advantages of snuggling up to the ruling power. So letting anyone else win be it Trump, DeSantis or person to be named is against their maintaining their hard won (hell they had to basically grovel for it) privilege. They are as contemptible (if not more so) as their Brahmandarin masters. To quote Samuel Adams

              “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace,” Adams said. “We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.”

    3. The problem with a vindictive bully is that some on the left are starting to realize just how suicidal the left (and the Establishment in general) is becoming. While we don’t want someone who will try and go “super big tent” in order to bring those lefties in, we also don’t want someone who needlessly picks fights with people who are effectively “the enemy of my enemy”.

        1. You don’t have to trust them. Note again how I mentioned not going the “super big tent” route. And yes, you should keep a wary eye on them regardless of anything else. But you have to focus on the more immediate threat, and not get caught up squabbling with people who would rather also focus on the more immediate threat.

          As an example – the time to pick a fight with J. K. Rowling (should I be so inclined) would be after the trans activists are forced to slink back into the shadows and hide.

      2. From what I, as a casual outsider, can gather, the Paxton thing is an intramural fight between two wings of the Republican party. The wing containing Paxton went after the Speaker, and his wing went full scortched-earth. But our Texas natives have a better grip on it. (For Tregonsee, WPDE!)

      3. “The enemy of my enemy” might be useful, possibly be a co-belligerent, but isn’t thus a friend.

        Be -picky- of friends. It’s important.

  3. Honestly, I think the Fed-Gov is done. They will prop up Biden, even if he is drooling onto his shirt-front and crapping into his adult diapers three times a day. The various staffers and bureaucrats who want their nice cushy jobs to continue into infinity … they will prop him up to the point where it looks like the real-life version of Weekend at Bernies. The bales of votes for him will be printed, generated and fed into the voting machines and the national establishment media machine will turn away and swear that they didn’t see a bit of it. I think that our best hope is with the states and the local element. Those bastards, we can get to, and voice our extreme displeasure.
    Sigh. I’m depressed about the next national election. Can you tell?

    1. The rationalizations by the Never-Trumpers are already being trotted out, working out to, “the suburban mom vote will go Biden and it’s Trump’s fault.”
      A variation that may have merit is the idea he has a “low ceiling.” The people who like him and will automatically vote for him aren’t quite enough to put him over the top, while the people who hate his %^$@!! guts and will never vote for him form a barrier he has to surmount. Add in rigged voting rules and it gets dicey even without outright fraud.

        1. As I said, this is the Never-Trump rationalization. The only guy suggesting a ceiling I kind of trust is Kurt Schlicter.
          I do really, really wish he’d either drop talking about Covid or admit there were problems.

          2. The NT’ers would rationalize getting their (alleged) dangly bits turned inside out if they thought it was the opposite of the orange devil.

        2. The suburban moms are finding out what the f-ers have planned for their kids. They may surprise you…

          1. Unfortunately in many cases they have been suborned by their own need to be part of the clique and many of the leaders of that clique are unhinged Munchausen-by-proxy types in the edges of the blue cities, and in places like here in Massachusetts to be other than a liberal gay/trans ally is to be expelled to the outer wastes. It takes some tough mama bears with strong convictions (and likely conservative religion) to be so isolated.

      1. smacks the missus with the stick of feel better (see shillelagh) and hands get the magical potion of joy (see poitín)

        Stop. Have a drink.

        Maybe I should guest post something….

      2. Yeah, I’m depressed to the point where I’ve given up reading the news for the next three months. Y’all let me know if we have another 9/11.

        1. I haven’t read the news since Reagan went out of office.

          Well, that’s sort of hyperbole…but I certainly haven’t read it since Trump went out of office. Mostly because the news isn’t news anymore, it’s left-wing drivel.

          1. Still a good idea to check it regularly, to see what the leftists have come up with lately. You can’t even try to counter what you don’t know about.

    3. “I think that our best hope is with the states and the local element.”

      Celia, the problem with that boils down to two words: “Fort Sumter”.

      At some point, most likely over immigration, but also possibly over gun control, environmental policy, or the War on Woke, a red state governor or other statewide official is going to protest carrying out some Federal decree, or be accused of breaking some Federal law, and his jurisdiction will be occupied. During that process, an incident, real or contrived, will end up with Federal officers being shot, and an insurrection will be declared.

      The Left hates you and wants you dead, and they have the framework in place to do that under color of law, just as soon as they work up the nerve.

      1. I’m just surprised the long knives haven’t already come out. The political equivalent of, “Can no one rid me of this troublesome priest?” has got to be floating around. Heck, I remember Kathy Whoever’s bloody Trump head.

      2. And War on Woke just moved up to the top of the pack in “Race to Fort Sumter”. Once this gets implemented, DeSantis is going to be Target #1, and I doubt the courts will deal with it before the election.

        https://townhall.com/columnists/jonathanemord/2023/06/03/brace-for-impact-doe-is-about-to-unleash-sexual-assault-on-girls-and-women-n2624004

        “In practical terms, the Biden administration is about to codify a “statutory right” for boys and men to enter girls’ and women’s bathrooms, locker rooms, and sports teams nationwide with the full backing of federal law and law enforcement. Every deviant out there who wants to sexually assault a girl or a woman is about to acquire an ally in the Department of Education and the Department of Justice. Indeed, any effort to stop boys and men from entering historically separate places for girls and women will now be subject to prosecution and each federally funded institution opposing such moves will risk losing its federal funding. ”

        Emphasis added.

  4. I’m still hoping-and convinced-that the DeSantis/Trump rivalry is pure kayfabe and when the time comes, one of them hugs the other and becomes the VP for that candidate (my ideal ticket is DeSantis/Trump one, but I can see it the other way around).

    Regardless, the swamp needs to be drained and cleaned out. Maybe with bulldozers. Lots of bulldozers.

    1. President and VP from the same state could cause issues. Trump and DeSantis are Florida residents. Haven’t researched the issue deeply, but it is a potential problem, much as I agree.

        1. There is a slight issue actually. The Constitution says, “The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves.” That means that the Florida electors can’t vote for Trump and DeSantis as President and VP. They would have to vote for somebody else as VP. In a very close election that MIGHT end up our having a VP of the other party from the President, even if they vote for Sheldon Leonard as VP.

            1. I have read Neo’s analysis, and I contend she’s wrong at least partly. I can read the Constitution that I quoted above. Nothing legally prohibits both our President and VP being inhabitants of the same state, but the electors of that state can’t vote for both of them.

        2. The 12th Amendment says that the electors of Florida can’t give electoral votes to both Trump and DeSantis, if they’re both residents of Florida. There’s no law against a Trump/DeSantis ticket, but the cost would be that one or both of them would lose Florida’s electoral votes.

        3. Yep no law against it. Loss of Florida’s 29 electoral college votes yes.

          However there is no law against President Trump changing residencies (Not sure how close to the election such is possible though.), if such happens, it’ll be an interesting ticket.

        4. Sarah, what possible difference do you think that makes? There was nothing in J6 that met the legal definition of insurrection either.

          That passage of the 12th Amendment will be used in as many blue jurisdictions as possible to not allow the entire ticket on the ballot, and until they openly declare it, the courts will use standing or “ripeness of the controversy” to duck for cover and not decide, just like they did in 2020.

        5. “The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves”

          If the election is tight, it may be significant.

      2. …yea, that might be a problem.

        Trump as Secretary of State? DeSantis is (relatively speaking) a young guy and draining that swamp is going to be a hard job.

        1. It’s not a problem. The only point of it is that they supposedly won’t carry their native states. I don’t think that’s the point here.

          1. Florida’s cleaned up their election stuff, I seem to have read somewhere. That alone should prevent quite a lot of shenanigans that were tried in other states, and I’ve no doubt succeeded.

            From what Frank and Deep Lurker say they’re more knowlageable than me on the subject. Sounds like it would be a very edgey edge case. Have to look at the math for it.

            If it’s no, or a very small issue, I’d be for it in a heartbeat. Maybe Trump would rub off on DeSantis a bit.

        2. As metaphors, I think we need dynamite, not drainage at this point. The attitude at the top is entirely too stratified, in demeanor and in fact. I want my rule of law, dag nabbit. I want government servants to bloody well serve, not rule. I want to yank back the powers they’ve arrogated to themselves and put ’em back where they belong, in the hands of the people.

          And yes, I’d like sprinkles on top too. I know it’s not likely to happen. Doesn’t matter. The world, in this case, is bloody bonkers. Not me.

          1. I suspect that we’d need dynamite as well. A lot of these “servants” are probably up to their eyeballs in one kind of trouble or another…and don’t want to get caught holding the bag when the time comes to look at their books.

            This means-to me-that we really do need to clean house. I’m just hoping we don’t have to burn it down in the process.

            1. Random thought. Instead of Trump/DeSantis…

              Trump/McEnany. She’s not a politician, but she knows how to get her ducks in a row… Did pretty good as press sec.

                1. Bah, my dreams tend to go more Tar/Feathers or Tree Limb/Rope for certain egregious foulness perpetrated upon the citizenry. Send them to the land their heart of hearts yearns for, and trade them all for, oh, say, Taiwan and Hong Kong or something like.

                  Give them all the true, authentic Socialist experience: from the absolute bottom. How does peasantry strike them?

                  At least then, they’d have the perspective right. Let them revolutionize and overthrow over there.

              2. Trump just went after her (called her “milktoast”; presumably he meant “milqtoast”). According to his Truth Social post, his campaign had notified her beforehand that some poll numbers were inaccurate, but she read them on air anyway. I suspect that she’s a bit annoyed with him right now.

                1. She was a longtime Trump hater who came onboard for the grift, and just happened to be a good press secretary; she didn’t even wait to sell him out and betray him at the end—see Robert Barnes at Vivabarneslaw.locals.com.

                  1. First I’ve heard about it.

                    As for the website you mentioned, I got confronted with a “Log In” prompt. When I clicked “look around first”, I was confronted with a ridiculously huge list of videos with no clue where to find anything on the topic at hand.. If you’re going to go throwing around claims that most of us haven’t heard before, please try and find a direct link to a readable version that’s not on a membership site.

  5. …a lance to the heart of the status quo…

    Or perhaps more specifically, a “lance to the heart of pus-packed rancid boil that is by now the status quo” in so much of “our” national government — Department of State Destabilization, Department of Homeland Insecurity, Department of Justice (or Something)…

    Organizations, not just nations, have cultures too, see post a few days back. So they’re resistant to change, once a culture is entrenched, more than might be obvious. Which then means it’ll take either very strong measures to repair them… or much work to replace them.

    Either way, it’s much more obvious than in 2016… necessary, vital work.

  6. Fully agree on the circular firing squad routine the RNC seems to be setting up again. I think you’re right that they think they can wave the flag enough to justify losing so they don’t risk getting their iron rice bowls dumped.

    But I also think you’re right that all they are doing is setting all of us, themselves included to starve for real when the whole system shatters. Just seem to be dealing wit ha lot of people who think they can hide in their own little bucket and all the problems will pass them by. Not just in politics or the economy even. Just not sure how to get through to any of them, or, in a lot of cases, what to even do about it either.

    1. The RNC, outside of someone willing to pull as hard as they can (see Regan, Tea Party, etc, etc, etc) has a definite mentality of being “the abused wife of the most powerful man in town.” They get abused, belittled, and harmed, but they have all that power…

      1. The RNC is the “Washington Generals” to the DNC “Harlem Globetrotters”.

        The RNC wants to lose “just enough” to keep the sweet money rolling in, without the responsibility of actually representing the desires of the “Fly Over People”,

        1. Because the “Fly Over People” aren’t quite their people. For the most part, even the E!Republicans are a part of the Establishment. They’re members of the same social class, and there’s only so much you can do to people of your own class in most circumstances.

  7. I’m voting for Trump. Not because I love him, but because he’s a useful tool for what I think needs to be done; and because he’s by far the best one of the bunch. Sure, he needs steam cleaning and sanding with large aggregate grit. As noted, the rest are career politicians that require a manure scoop.

  8. “I must ask, clearly: What pool do you think DeSantis will hire from?”

    Yes, yes, yes! That is the most important question. Trump did way more good for this country than anyone had any right to expect, but, but, but…, he failed to get the wall completely built–because he ran out of time. At least he had it almost done and illegal immigration under firm control. He was tricked by the Faucians. The question is, will he be so easily tricked again? Personally, he continued to speak truth in office even about COVID, but he was tricked into pushing the vaccines as another Trumpian miracle. That’s his great temptation. It’s to his great credit that he can pull off good things none of us thought possible because he’s audacious and believes he can get these things done. The problem is, as in his business ventures, he sometimes fails despite his best efforts.

    As to hiring pools, I think Trump’s most important instinct is to move as much of the bureaucracy out of DC as possible. The proposed move of the Department of the Interior was a huge step in the right direction. Don’t let the political tribe aggregate. They come from the same universities. They eat together. They party together. They marry together. It’s political assimilation just as a conquering nation absorbs another through assimilation as you’ve talked about before. Who did Kellyanne Conway and Mary Matalin marry? If you live in DC environs, that’s who you get to choose from. One of the most important Geography papers ever is called The Law of the Primate City. The important point is, if a country’s primate city also becomes it’s capitol, federalism is absolutely dead, and you have Mexico or France. DC was a perfect choice for the original US Capitol. It was the geographic center of the country, and nothing but a swamp. Our form of government would not have lasted long if the capitol had stayed in New York City.

    I’m leaning towards DeSantis at this point, but only leaning, because I don’t know enough about him, enough actual facts. He is a lifelong politician (so they tell me), but he has shown an ability to pull his state to the conservative side with true conservative policies. He’s not apologetic for them. (He has that in common with Trump.) Yes, he now has a compliant legislature, but people forget that Florida was still a swing state when he was first elected, and he turned it around by actually governing as a conservative, so he must know how to choose heads of his state’s bureaucracies.

    My worst nightmare is that DeSantis wins the nomination, and Trump pulls a BullMoose party ego trip. That led us to the disastrous Wilson administration, and you know Trump’s not only capable, but likely to do such a thing given that circumstance.

    Sorry for prattling along so much in what’s supposed to be a comment.

    1. DeSantis colluded with the GOP to take a lot of money for his campaign and leave the Trump-recommended candidates starving for cash. That’s something to take into account.

      1. As I recall, he also narrowly won due to the left frauding hard but incompetently in his state, so he is also a career politician who may know which side of the machine his goose is cooked on.

      1. NYC and the rest of the Empire State have enough corruption for any 6 3rd world nations. If they added the corruption in DC, they’d exceed critical mass and, well, the Void would be very large.

  9. American politics (any country’s politics, I’d argue) are indelibly tainted. Thus, any person who is also a politician traffics with evil. Good people who become politicians get bought, or they get attacked if they’re strong, or they get conned if they’re gullible, or they get blackmailed if they’re vulnerable…

    The swamp is the correct metaphor.

    For those not living in, near, or having visited an honest to Bog swamp, ask someone who knows. It takes work to wash off the swamp stink. You come back with leeches. Bites. Sand and mud and unidentfiable gunk in bits and crevices you didn’t know you had. The smell sticks around, too.

    The reason I’m for Trump is the left is scared of him. Because he does things. Wild, unpredictable things. He makes them look like the fools they are. He ignores their enticements. His ego is pretty effective armor for that, and he uses it to bulldoze through things he finds annoying.

    He’s also blind to things he thinks beneath him, and sources he chooses to trust. That’s caused problems in the past.

    The best thing in the Trump/DeSantis fight could be them both becoming more right wing/libertarian as they try to top each other. Yes, DeSantis is an establishment boy. But he’s got a bit of cred for sticking to his guns- and I firmly believe the ONLY reason he did that is because he was pushed into it.

    DeSantis is not a good guy in my book. You listen to him speak, he whines. He’s the nerdy kid that got his lunch money stolen. Trump’s the bully the stole it from him.

    That said, if a bad guy does right I’ll call that out. DeSantis has done good things for Florida. He might do good things for the country, should he make it into office. He might also drown in the swamp. I have doubts about his constitution when faced with that kind of pressure.

    Trump? Trump thrives on that stuff. He makes bad calls? You bet he does. I have a mile of things I don’t like about spineless, lackluster, lying Republicans. I have a shorter list of things I don’t like about Trump, but that list still exists.

    He gets into office, he needs to start, day 1, firing a massive amount of people. More than you’d think. Enough to start a Congressional probe (that’ll fail), and Constitutional questions (that the Supremes might take an interest in).

    While actual pikes with severed heads might be wanted, that won’t occur unless things get really spicey.

    More like, I think he would probably can more than a few department heads. That doesn’t solve the problem of the rot underneath, but in Trump’s eyes (I think) that’s their problem to solve. And Trump’s weakness is, as our host mentioned, that he doesn’t quite understand how deep the doo doo goes.

    In 16 I voted for Trump out of spite. In 2020, out of recognition of a job well done, more or less. In 2024, I likely will again, out of hope that he’ll continue causing leftist nightmares and cleaning house even better than he did the last time.

    But it will be up to us to continue making it politically profitable for those nominally on the right (nearly ALL of them are to the left of ME) to do the “right” and the Right things. The Bud Light boycott worked.

    1. Ended that too quick. The Bud Lite boycott worked, not because a bunch of righties got together and said “yeah! Let’s stick it to the man!” or some such.

      It worked because it was made socially unacceptable for a man to be drinking Bud Luddite. It wasn’t masculine. Or something very like. Thus, it lost its number one ranking, as sales continue to fall.

      Yes, there’s something to be said about Target, Chick Fil A, etc. Not going there with this.

      What I’m getting at is, the same thing needs to happen on the right. Make it politically profitable to CUT SPENDING, not just slow the rate of increase. Make it politically profitable to cut ties with companies that hate us, like the states that quit doing business with ESG banks. Make it politically profitable to PROTECT CHILDREN FROM PEDOS for Bog’s sake. Et cetera. Ad nauseam.

      Make it politically profitable to call things by their right names. Man. Woman. Child. Thief. Rioter. Cultist. And so on. Make rule of law great again, before public stoning makes a comeback, and vigilante rule becomes the newest trend. Because the law exists to restrain the INDIVIDUAL from pursuing justice with their own bloody hands. It protects criminals from being castrated in the street and made to crawl on bloody stumps to beg forgiveness.

      While that might sound good, most folks don’t spend much time in doing the investigating part when their minds are made up. Say what you will about the current state of law enforcement, but the standard is at least there somewhere.

      And when we get to that point? Ye bogs and little fishes, then it’s time to batten down the hatches. Revolutions suck. Political change by the bullet is Africa politics, not American. There’s a better way to do it.

      That’s the way the Founders intended.

      It’ll take a murthering lot of bloody sweat and tears, no lie. It’ll take everything that some of us have. Lives, fortunes, sacred honor no less.

      But the path starts within. Tell no lies. Work hard. Pay your dues, be they mortal or spiritual. Teach kids well. And stand up for what’s right.

      Simple.

      Just not easy.

      1. “Make it politically profitable to call things by their right names. “

        Illegal alien. Or maybe foreign invader.

    2. Step One: fire or retire everyone in the SES.
      Step Two: some kind of moratorium on elected, appointed, or hired government employees, including military members, from working for government lobbies, or industries contracted by the government. That’s a large reason for the existence of the swamp, not just career politicians, but careerists that thrive on taxpayer moneys.

  10. Trump vs. DeSantis is politics. Which, by definition, is incredibly dirty.

    You noted one history of nastiness by Trump to Cruz – but there was much, much more. Including all of the surrogates beating the drum that Cruz isn’t “native born,” that he was “the tool of Goldman-Sachs,” the “he’s attempting to overthrow the nomination” at the last.

    Yet… I note that still Senator Cruz was (and is) one of the more stalwart warriors for MAGA. He was also one of the few Senators that were ready to put themselves on the line to dispute the fraud (before Pence, whether through cowardice or command from his owners, short-circuited the process). Also note that there is not even a whisper about a Cruz run for the nomination this round.

    It will not surprise me in the least (given that Trump wins the nomination and the election) to see DeSantis appointed to a position where he can launch for real in 2028. (No, can’t be VP – both legal residents of the same State.)

      1. That’s abundantly clear; there is no Constitutional restriction on the President and VP being residents of the same state. The restriction is on the electors from that state; in that scenario they cannot cast votes for both the candidates. How this would play out would be interesting, assuming they decided to vote for the President and therefore “remain silent” about the VP. The offices are voted for separately, so if the count was close enough, could the Republican President win, but the Democrat VP win (or could the 30 electors decide to split, with half voting only for the President and half only for the VP?) As I said, interesting. 😉

  11. “Very weak, in fact, because I’ve not forgiven him for falling for the Covidiocy yet.
    …
    Except that he FELL FOR THE SCAM and remains convinced.”

    This is one of a VERY FEW things that routinely gets Trump BOO!-ed by the crowd at his own rallies (so I hear), often wildly and lustily. Maybe about the only one.

    Never bought it to verify, but Deborah “Scarf Lady” Birx’ book is supposed to be full of brag about how she (etc.) lied about the Dread Virus to Trump and others, simply to get her/their desired policies (e.g. national shutdowns) into place. And the lies are pretty visible, by now.

    If this is “a cult of personality” — how could his mindless followers possibly ‘boo!” the guy they waited in lines for hours to see?

  12. I’ll be honest – I consider Trump to have been put to the test in 2020 over COVID. He failed. He panicked, put Fraud-ci (a man known to have overreacted to AIDS) in charge, and did not exercise proper oversight. A competent manager would have organized a separate Red Team to double-check findings…and probably put the Army’s biological warfare team at Fort Detrick in the lead.

    Toss in the failure to either maintain public order or crack the heads of those whose job it was to do so, and you have a pretty sorry track record.

    Not to mention the minor fact that the whole Russiagate scam was pretty obvious by the summer of 2018. I spent two years hoping that Trump would find the nerve to make the arrests, bring the charges of Seditious Conspiracy. But he didn’t.

    My own assessment is that the Dems and their Propaganda Press are setting Trump up. Get him nominated, then crush him. Lead with Mean Tweets, follow up with Jan 8 hysteria…and obliterate him by “discovering” the inept response to the Panic-demic.

    Which leaves us with the choice of a better alternative. DeSantis is probably the best viable option…but you have NO idea of how much I’d like to run myself.

    This is a time that demands someone who knows the bureaucracy, knows how to make it work…and loathes it. Dr. Pournelle stated the Iron Law, that the people who serve the bureaucracy get promoted over the people who are focused on the mission. I can state from first-hand experience that this leaves a lot of people who ARE focused on the mission…and who are hopping mad at being passed over for some process-server.

    Offer those mission-focused people the levers of power, and they will wield them ruthlessly…and joyfully. It’s the opportunity of their dreams.

    And cheer up, people. 2020 offered an opportunity for wholesale vote fraud through the injection of massive numbers of fraudulent absentee ballots. The panic-demic is over. Time to fight.

    1. Faluchi and HIV/AIDS is one of the greatest tragedies of public health.

      It’s been years since I studied it, but what I remembered went something like this-
      *Public health discovered that there was a nasty new disease that appeared to be sexually/blood transmitted, was mostly affecting drug addicts who shot up, gay men, and people getting transfusions. The third set made sense because the first two tended to sell their blood to make money when they could.
      *Basic public health standards-find the people that are sick, map their connections, get them isolated, and keep them from infecting other people. It’s a blood/sexually-transmitted disease, you have to work to infect other people.
      *Falluchi went against this, insisting that there would be a vaccine soon, so no tracking and no isolation. No testing of blood sources, either.
      *It Got Worse.
      *And there still isn’t a vaccine, even now.
      *The problem is that it got worse in ways that certain politicians could make the most of.
      *And, Falluchi was the guy that advocated all the “right” policies for those people, so he got rabbis that wanted to see him succeed, so he got promoted…and the rest is history.

      1. There was vote fraud, yes. But also a major problem with Trump being the face of the party. The party’s Presidential nominee is the face of the party until replaced by another nominee. Note that the 2022 midterm performance was the worst for the GOP since 1978. When Ford was the face of the Republican Party.

        Two years later, Reagan was the GOP nominee…and the Republicans took the Senate for the first time in over 20 years.

        1. Oh, for the love of Bob. The fraud in 2022 was MASSIVE. It had nothing with any faces.
          Trump won more votes on his reelection than on his election.
          This is stupid. Stop drinking the left’s ink.
          You have NO idea what they’ll do to DeSantis, do you even?

          1. I think you meant the wrong fraud for 2022.

            Not ballot stuffing by Donks.

            The RINO insiders, the right-boot of the swampmonster, threw the election.

            Yup.

            Because it wrecked Trump and his chances far more than it did the folks accustomed to fattening themselves as opposition.

            They fucking well did. Yes. McShitball more than most.

            Because while Trump is the major setback to proggies, he is an existential threat to the RINO griftgraft machine. Because he changed the expectations of republican voters. Bigly. Yes, we -can- fucking well defeat the donks, and move things positively. By -not- surrendering to the bastards.

            Existential threat to RINOs, thus…

            1. Both/And. The vile Democrats did all the frauding they could manage. And the vile GOPe hamstrung their own party’s candidates in every way they could manage. A plague o’ both their houses.

          2. So what’s the plan for un-frauding it? “There oughta be a law” to do X or Y obvious reform doesn’t cut it. Trump goes on and on about how he wuz robbed, and he WUZ robbed, but I don’t see a lot of specifics on what he intends to do about it this time.

            DeSantis went from an extremely close election to making Florida un-stealable. That counts for a lot.

            Also, Trump is a dagger pointed at the heart of the permanent bureaucracy, yes, but the permanent bureaucracy wears plate armor. DeSantis has been very successful at cleaning out the state bureaucracy and actually making real changes. I think he’d be more effective at actually reforming the Swamp, as opposed to getting all of us ever more het up about reforming the Swamp but not actually accomplishing anything.

            1. DeSantis didn’t do ANY of those things without two advantages he won’t have as President:

              `1. He doesn’t have the civil service / Senate confirmation minefields. In fact, under the FL Constitution, he can remove elected officials, like the prosecutor he took out last year.

              Related to #1, he inherited a majority legislature of people who actually supported him. Trump from DAY 1 had a Senate full of RINOs who a) inhibited his appointment and removal abilities, and b) could always “reach across the aisle” and confirm the fake impeachments.

              1. I’m talking about before the elections. DeSantis has a record of being able to win against the state-level swamp (inclusive of big business) through bureaucratic maneuvering and strategic lawsuits whereas Trump has a record of repeatedly bashing his face against a brick wall and loudly complaining about it in order to rally us all to do the same thing.

                My hope is that DeSantis would have enough savvy and insight to hire a sufficiently sneaky legal team to un-f*** the various state election processes before shenanigans can happen.

                Otherwise, I guess we’ll just have to Vote Harder™.

                  1. I have doubts too, but I have even greater doubts that Trump has the personality or the alliance structure to do it.

                    2. But of great use to what end? Trump accomplished a lot, but ultimately very little that wasn’t immediately overturned by Biden — Abraham Accords, asylum policy, etc. The permanent bureaucracy is still there and still as intransigent as ever, the culture war still “has developed not necessarily to our advantage”, and so on.

                      We’re even more pissed off about it than we were in 2016, but that and a fiver will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

                      Honestly, I’m starting to see the Trump Presidency as an analogue of the Doolittle Raid. But the Doolittle Raid didn’t really achieve much other than shocking Japan out of complacency; after that it took a serious long-term effort by a lot of people less flashy than Doolittle to actually make progress and win.

                    3. I think it’s necessary to administer more Trump, ultimately.
                      Look, DeSantis will start dealings, and the dealings will eat him, and most people STILL aren’t aware of how bad corruption is. So they’ll just trust.
                      IMO, if we COULD elect DeSantis (and note that I think that’s impossible, so this is a thought experiment.) we’d be kicking the can down the road another generation. And meanwhile the woke will remain destructive and in place. Think of what happened in the seventies, and kicking the can to now.
                      While another Trump term (again academic, thought experiment) would end up pulling all the masks off.

                    4. And when Trump pulls the masks off, and they say, “yeah, we were lizard people all along, whachagonnadoaboutit, prole?” and anybody with any political power who could be an ally against them has been personally burned by Trump’s demand for absolute 100% loyalty, then what?

                      A “deal” is not necessarily bad, unless you intend to always make the perfect the enemy of the good. Deals are part and parcel of representative democracy. The masks are already torn off, and we know who we would be dealing with. But: “If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”

                    5. Deals with lizards are always bad.
                      Honestly Trump then DeSantis would be better.
                      Though dear Lord, thought experiment, okay? THere’s no way. They MIGHT allow Pence to win if they thought of the long game. But they won’t do even t hat.

        2. Reagan still had a bureaucracy, including, most importantly, the military, that was still willing to take his orders. Are you really foolish enough to claim that Trump ever did?

          1. I mean, think about it. Trump had a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs that was telling Communist China that Trump’s lawful orders would be run past the Communists for final approval, was willing to admit it, and wasn’t removed by his own subordinates.

            Tell me that Reagan EVER faced that.

          2. Are you really foolish enough to claim that Trump ever did?

            On current evidence Mike M. appears foolish enough to claim just about anything.

      2. The other thing, of course, is where Trump was going to FIND a Red Team in an already colonized medical establishment that was systematically being told that Orange Man Bad and anyone who assisted him would be punished.

        https://townhall.com/columnists/larryoconnor/2022/07/06/criminalizing-conservatives-n2609752

        “”They are sending a warning shot to any conservative who might entertain working on a Trump 2024 campaign or in a potential Trump Administration.

        Having spoken to several high-ranking officials in the first Trump administration, it’s clear that the “Russian Collusion” hoax was drummed up in part to scare off potential members of Trump’s nascent presidency. Long-time Washington Republicans didn’t want anything to do with a presidency that would eventually end up under the scrutiny of a special prosecutor. They took a pass on joining the administration for fear of endless subpoenas and committee hearings. “

    3. My last supervisor (I left before he did) retired and took a job as a professor of Logistics after the third (or maybe fourth) time he was told, “Here’s your new boss. Train him; you know what’s going on.” He asked why, if he knew the job, he couldn’t be promoted into it. And the reason was his lack of melanin. So he left. He’d have known how to disassemble things.
      For the record, my whole former organization got disbanded when one of those special supervisors got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so to speak.

    4. Trump was in the process of fixing Fauci.

      That executive order regarding replacement of bureaucrats who set policy? That would have gone in force during the second term?

      Some had previously told him he could not fire people. Someone had told him that procedure, with a procedural fix.

      He could have intended that for the CFPB or something.

      However, it may have been intended for Fauci and for Birx.

  13. I’m just standing back and ignoring everything as much as possible. 1) Day Job requires me to follow everything during Day Job hours. That doesn’t apply at the moment. 2) It’s too [rude word] soon. Campaign season is too [bloomin’] long. 3) The wet weather and flooding* has me down. I need to get back on a more even keel to really “do” politics stuff well.

    *No, RedQuarters is fine. But swaths of the area are not fine. And there’s no let-up for at least another week.

  14. I’m not depressed, I am rather resigned concerning the expected results.

    I don’t particularly like Donald Trump but I voted for him twice, and will again if that’s the choice. I want a man not a swamp dweller in office. He doesn’t have to be my drinking buddy or someone I share a hymnal with in the church choir. Doesn’t matter if I like him, I want him in office, but, as noted, am resigned, it’s not the votes that count, it’s the vote counters.

    Jefferson, in his letter to James Madison, Sept. 1789, concerned a generation’s debts, rules, etc. passed on, or not passed on to the next. I tend to agree and will do what I can but what’s coming up, happenings down the road, will be my savage teenage granddaughters, and her generation’s choice. Frankly looking at her and her friends, even if we can’t save the day, I think there is an excellent chance that they can make tomorrow.

    That last paragraph of mine is quite fuzzy (Even more so than usual for me.) but hey, so were Jefferson’s thoughts in that September letter. 😉

  15. Today the Pretendent blathered on for about 10 minutes about how great it is that the Congresscritters passed a ‘bipartisan’ (really?) bill allowing the government to dig the debt hole deeper by removing all limits until after next year’s election.

    D.C. is not a swamp, it’s a sewer, and it’s chock full of Uniparty rats.
    ———————————
    Today, every child in America is born $139,000 in debt.

  16. What is getting exploited is Trump’s unwillingness to admit mistske. And, his pugnacity baits a large helping of “Let’s you and him fight”.

    Trump won 2016 for two reasons:

    1) Ask any great fighter. The big threat isn’t so much pro number two. It’s that new in the ring FNG who doesn’t know all the rules. He is inherently unpredictable because no one would do -that-.

    2) Clinton ran the Worst F-ing Donk Campaign In The History of American Presidential Politics Bar None, Stinking Steaming Pile. She got strategy from Braxton Bragg, and charm from hemorrhoids. Then f-ed all that up. She would have lost to a ticket of Pee Wee Herman and Herpes.

    Donks learned fast. They neutralized much of his efforts for 2020 and likely printed enough ballots to insure it. The presstitutes, burned badly, made sure to canonize the vegetable mafioso.

    For 2024, Trump will be kept busy with a slew of multi-state indictments, if they have to empanel juries of Mudd’s World androids. (Beebeebeeep! “Soros coordinate….” ) And Trump’s vindictiveness being well known, there will be even less restraint on Donk measures. Like they will indict as many of his family as possible.

    And the swamp will be even more determined to destroy him. And far less restrained.

    Still, he does pull the occasional rabbit out of that MAGA ballcap. I can envision him winning and going all Trumpspierre on swampdonks. (….Knitting furiously….) Problem is, they see that more clearly than us. Thus….

    Must stock up on popcorn. This is gonna be epic.

  17. A few random thoughts:

    The Trump taco bowl pic does not look photoshopped to me, nor does it feature a third hand.

    That said, he’s not covering himself in glory, though whether it’s worse now than it was before is up for debate.

    De Santis I am suspicious of. Not because the media is ag’in him. If we’re going to judge things by how the media behaves, Trump looks far worse, because they seem to be following his lead a bit much. No, it’s because he began as a creature of the Deep State (lawyer in Guantanamo, which wasn’t exactly a job they handed to randos) and a Bushite neo-con. Granted, he seems to have moved away from that, but… he was tapped and groomed by the Deep State. Can’t get me to get past that.

    If he had swallowed his pride and ambition and done backchannel talks with Trump to take the VP slot, I’d think far better of him. But no, he has to swing his lack of charisma around to show he’s better than Trump.

    3. I’m a jaded agnostic about politics, so not going to endorse anyone in particular, but all the “he’s such a good governor, he would be great at the top of the executive branch” talk gives me flashbacks to the talking heads at National Review, circa 1999.

        1. Reagan tried to run for president in ’76, as well, and like Carter, he also ended his final term as governor in ’75.

          1. Not having been aware of it at the time (I wasn’t yet two years old), in hindsight Reagan’s ’76 run looks like a brilliant loss-leader strategy. He knew he was going to lose (I presume), but got his name and ideas out there in front of the public in a way it wasn’t possible to do otherwise, and also set the stage for “You tried the friendly wimp, now you should be ready to elect an adult.”

          2. If George Washington and Thomas Jefferson had returned from the beyond, they couldn’t have won as Republicans in 1976. Agnew and Nixon had indelibly tarred the party.

            But Carter made the Democrats look even worse. That took talent.
            ———————————
            There is no situation so f*d up that the ‘Experts’ can’t f*k it up even more.

        2. Yes, but it was widely acknowledged among Georgians that, although he was a nice guy, he was in ineffective Governor.
          DeSantis, like his policies or not (and I do like most of them), has definitely been effective.

      3. You’re not wrong, although I will point out that governorships are executive positions, unlike Senate seats, so it’s not insane to look to governors over senators for the Oval Office. Not a sure thing, either, of course, but not insane.

        1. I’d argue that governors are a much better choice than senators, since both governor and president are executive positions with the associated “the buck stops here” flavor. Senators, OTOH, are part of a group of 50, theoretically equal, and do essentially nothing alone. Senators can always hide behind “but I was outvoted!”; executives can’t. Just my 20 mills…

    4. Scott Walker was great… right up until partway through the 2016 primary, when he suddenly wasn’t.

      DeSantis has been really good about a lot of things. If he goes wobbly, I suspect that we’ll see it during the primary as happened with Walker. As far as his former connections go, don’t forget that what was “normal” even ten years ago is now wildly hard right conservative according to much of the conventional wisdom that’s screamed at us. Attitudes among many have shifted a lot, and some of that shifting has been in our favor.

      1. I’m willing to be convinced. I was dead set against Trump until the day after the election in 2016, and then realized how every wrong I had been.

        But there’s something off about Desantis to me. I can’t put my finger on it past what I already did, but I’d sooner trust Ted Cruz than him, because whatever else is wrong with Ted Cruz, he is authentically himself.

        Then again, I’m an insane Rand-loving libertarian just one step short of being an ancap, so you can’t really go by me. 😀

        1. Ted Cruz is authentically himself.

          If you’re right about this, he is to be pitied

  18. When was the last time a sitting incumbent president lost a re-election. Having trouble remembering – little help maybe?

      1. HW lost primarily because after emphasizing his “Read my lips, no new taxes!” promise he caved to the uniparty & raised taxes.

  19. I see two possibilities. One, DeSantis and all the other Trump challengers are too stupid or evil to do the job. Two, they are deliberately trying to sharpen Trump and themselves by strife, and we shouldn’t be tolerating the ‘muh gravitas’ talk that condemns the attacks.

    The core issue driving this is the Democrats and the Communists being insane, having screwed things up, and there being few wonderful paths that can be seen out of the mess.

    Trump has been impeached twice, for insurrection. Fundamentally, a legal theory that allows him to be culpable of an insurrection in those circumstances requires a) deliberately ignoring the evidence incriminating Pelosi b) rampant pro-confederate apologism.

    Trump had every moral right to authorize the unorganized militia to suppress the unlawful conspiracy by congress. He does not seem to have so authorized the militia.

    Which leads to element of screw up number two, Miley. It thus becomes plausible that we could theorize that Trump authorized the militia in his own heart, but that a deep state conspiracy prevented that from being made publicly known to the militia.

    It is thus unclear whether or not we are actually in a civil war, and it is an ambiguity that even Trump would be unable to entirely lay to rest even if he returned to office.

    Other Republican candidates? Much less able to lay it to rest.

    The Democrats and the Communists are insane, their actions are a driven by a madness that cannot coexist with peace, and maybe hangign them would be the only answer.

    If hanging is the answer, Americans will then be very interested in bringing the killing to an end, and restoring peace. Which basically means that any and all politicians responsible for seeing the hangings done almost certainly will need to resign.

    The Republican nomination is no prize, if you have any way to delay your involvement in the matter.

    Trump is kinda stuck at least appearing to try.

    Walking into this mess on purpose? With what we know now? Either i) GOP establishment evil planning to ‘resolve’ the mess in favor of the Democrats ii) Too stupid to see what a thankless awful mess it is likely to be. iii) Trying to sharpen up Trump.

    DeSantis looks a little bit suspicious with his methods and choices of proxies.

  20. I think we just reached Peak Woke.
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/06/outrageous-childrens-choir-stopped-mid-performance-while-singing/

    The children, part of the esteemed Rushingbrook Children’s Choir, had traveled to Washington, D.C. last Friday, May 26th, for a scheduled Capitol tour and had received prior approval to sing a short set of patriotic songs inside the historic Statuary Hall.

    However, as their angelic voices filled the grand hall while they sang The Star-Spangled Banner with pride, one of the guides intervened, as he was told by the Capitol police that the children stop singing immediately. The abrupt interruption stunned the young performers, the choir director, and the assembled audience.

    The Capitol Police did not allow the young children to finish the song and sought to explain to the choir director that singing the national anthem at the nation’s Capitol is considered a form of demonstration and/or might offend someone.
    …
    “The visit and Choir performance was all planned and approved… but it’s possible that there was some type of “permit” or communication mixup,” said Matthew Leys who was present during the incident.

    “Either way… the kids sang brilliantly; Capitol Police not even letting them complete the song and trying to explain that singing the Anthem could be considered a form of protest is telling and embarrassing; when you need a permit to sing your National Anthem in your nation’s Capitol, something’s gone wrong,” he added.

    1. “Raising the flag and singing the anthem, Hepplewhite, are, while somewhat suspicion, not in and of themselves acts of treason,” said the captain.

      — Nightwatch, Terry Pratchett

      After the book was released, Pratchett belatedly realized that his American readers might not get the full humor of the scene. Doing patriotic things in the US are normal. In Britain, on the other hand, it’s considered somewhat embarrassing.

      1. “Doing patriotic things in the US are normal. In Britain, on the other hand, it’s considered somewhat embarrassing.”

        We are fast approaching “considered illegal” in both countries.

        1. “approaching”

          Well, I suppose it isn’t in black and white legal text yet. But in every other way that matters it is.

    2. They got an apology, at least. But a return to the grand hall for a full performance would be nice.
      (It says something very nasty about the Capitol Police’s morale and management that their guy would even think in terms of, “this might offend someone so you can’t do it.”)

    3. It appears that their trangression was to have the temerity to continue singing the fourth verse of the Anthem. You can tell that everybody expected them to do the usual ‘One and Done’ version because of the applause that began when the first verse ended. When they continued, I imagine a lot of folks were nonplussed. Can’t have such subversive, or at least transversive, ideas as, “And this be our motto – ‘In God is our trust.’” echo through the halls of the capitol.

    4. Nobody has any ‘right’ to Not Be Offended. That’s another of those ‘rights’ Leftroids are so enamored with, that places burdens on other people.

      Anybody can decide to ‘Be Offended’ by anything. Well, that’s fine. They have the right to ‘Be Offended’ by anything that strikes their fancy. What they don’t have is any right to violate other people’s rights to speak as they see fit, or force them to say things they don’t want to say.

      Plus, for some reason, it’s not valid for parents to be offended by the ‘public’ schools, which they pay for, pushing weird sex fetishes on their children without their knowledge or consent.
      ———————————
      The one thing we need more of from the government is LESS!!

  21. The suburban moms are finding out what the f-ers have planned for their kids. They may surprise you…

  22. I guess we’ll find out how many suburban moms are raising theybys and how many are raising actual boys and girls.

    I, personally don’t know any raising theybys, but I am assured by all the smart set that they out number the hater bigots who are raising boys and girls.

    Which I doubt.

    1. I don’t know about suburban moms, but all the urban moms I know are in full glassy-eyed cultic assent to whatever the most recent Wokist extreme assertions happen to be — until superseded by even more extreme assertions next week.

  23. That’s pretty much where I’m at on all of this. Unless all leftists are in handcuffs the whole election season, it’s all just a dumb fake WWE fight. And even another 2016 miracle happened, it’s appearant how little a president can do when the entire political structure is completely riddled with termites who’ll take the entire place down before giving up a drop of their power.

  24. I said it on Twitter and I’ll repeat it here:

    I wish both Trump and DeSantis would stop pounding on each other long enough to address concrete issues, like vote integrity, fiscal restraint, Pinocheting commies, and so forth. [I’ll add, “illegal immigration and the wall” to that.]

    I’m really tired of the BS from both camps, and nearly to saying “a pox on both their houses”.

    The enemy is the Democrats and the RINOs. Whoever wakes up and smells the coffee on that is who I will support.

  25. I’m for Trump – he’s the ultimate disruptor, and I hope he learned enough from the first go round to know what and who to tear down this time. Give him four years AND hopefully majorities in congress that ACT like majorities and shut down the Marxist’s games. After some of the swamp is cleared away (I’d like to see some real jail time, but I suspect the best we can hope for is a large amount of firing), we will hopefully have someone Trump-like to carry on.
    BTW – for those who wish he’d stop harping on the stolen 2020 election (I think that mindset is actually a Marxist psyop): Exactly how will it ever be fixed if everyone pretends it never happened? And Trump bringing it up isn’t just about his ego – the CITIZENRY was disenfranchised, even though the courts keep saying none of us have standing.
    The best thing about Trump is he keeps fighting – learn from him.
    Thanx for the post, Sarah.

  26. I seriously doubt the Democrats will let Trump live long enough to win. The FBI especially can’t allow that, so look for the FBI to assassinate Trump, they tried everything they could other than killing him, so that’s all they have left. If they will do what they did in 2020, assassinating Trump is nothing. So yes the argument isn’t worth the candle.

  27. DeSantis is being set up as the not-Trump candidate. If it looks like Thumper has a chance of winning, DeSantis will be the Repub-boot-licker candidate. If Thumper manages to alienate a high enough proportion of his base, they’ll give in gracefully and allow him to run.

    The controllers are perfectly willing to cheat, but after being shocked that so many people actually noticed in 20 and 22 they want to avoid the appearance of cheating if at all possible.

    We saw this in 2016. Trump was wonderful, Trump was amazing, then as soon as he was the R candidate they all jumped on him with both feet.

    He was picked because they thought he had the least chance to win against Hitlery. They were mistaken.

    They’re doing the same thing now. DeSantis is wonderful, DeSantis is amazing, and if he becomes the R candidate they’ll take him down. They have something on him, I’m not sure what it is yet.

    Thumper would fit in perfectly with any of our Presidents until the beginning of the 20th century. That’s when we started electing pretty boy politicians instead of men.

    Putting any two of them in the same room would result in a great deal of broken china.

    Like them, he’s course, opinionated, abrasive, and arrogant. He knows what he wants and he’s going to roll right over anyone who gets in his way.

    If he becomes the candidate I’ll vote for him, because no one else has shown the willingness or the ability to meet the libs head on and get the job done. DeSantis certainly won’t. He would be just one more pretty boy bootlicker. There’s no way he could be anything else unless he’s willing to face the libs head on and grind them into the dust.

    Unfortunately his way is compromise and cooperation. That’s not going to work this time.

    1. “They have something on him, I’m not sure what it is yet.”

      Whatever they need to invent. We know a Democrat shill paid at least two of the Trump accusers, and of course we saw what was ginned up against Justices Thomas and Kavanaugh.

      https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/365068-exclusive-prominent-lawyer-sought-donor-cash-for-two-trump-accusers/

      Kipling knew:

      “Here is nought at venture, random nor untrue
      Swings the wheel full-circle, brims the cup anew.

      Here is naught unproven, here is nothing hid:
      Step for step and word for word–so the old Kings did!”

  28. If I were an America voter, I’d be voting for Trump. Because say what you want about the Orange Man, the Left have moved Heaven and Earth to bring him down.

    When you’re drawing fire like that, you are on target.

    DeSantis is despised, as is fashionable, but the FBI is not raiding his house and going through his wife’s underwear drawer.

    Trump is not perfect, he’s maybe not the finest human being on planet Earth, he maybe got a few things wrong that were far out of his wheelhouse, but on the whole he’s the best candidate you could ask for in 2023.

    For example, if Trump becomes President, the Ukraine war will probably end the same week. Because the Donald will get Vlad and Vlod on the phone, and make a deal. That’s what he does.

    The other thing I predict could happen, is the Chicoms could suddenly get religion and stop screwing with everything. Because the Donald will get on the phone and make a deal.

    Sadly, I am a Canadian. There are zero candidates on the horizon here in Canukistan who are fit to hold Donald’s coat while he rolls up his sleeves. The only one even making the right sort of noises is Pierre Poilievre, and given his performance I am concerned he’s mostly saying what he thinks people like me want to hear, not what he’s committed to.

    I’ll most likely vote for him anyway, because he’s not the Shiny Pony.

    1. “…saying what he thinks people like me want to hear, not what he’s committed to.”

      Do you seriously think that can’t be applied to 99.9% of the politicians? He’s as unique as a grain of sand on the beach.

      1. “Do you seriously think that can’t be applied to 99.9% of the politicians?”

        I agree, of course that’s true. And of course Trump does that too, at times. But, and this is the difference to me anyway, when Trump tells you he’s committed to the United States and making it great again, his actions follow from that. He does what he says he is going to do, unless he can’t. Action first, reputation later.

        I look at Pierre Poilievre and what he’s done to date, and I don’t get that. I see a lot of going along to get along. Review PP’s activities during the trucker Freedom Convoy, and you’ll note he looks like a guy being careful not to get any on him. Reputation first, action later.

        The other thing about Trump is he correctly identified the Enemy of All Life. That is the media. Trump essentially ran against Big Media in 2016 and 2020. No one else has had the guts to do that, certainly not Pierre Poilievre.

        2. I have no argument with any of that; my comment was WRT politicians in general. Trump is simply one of the 0.1% who don’t follow the usual “politician pattern”. And depending on how the primary turns out, I can only hope that DeSantis is one in the “Trump mold” rather than the “pol mode”.

        1. The NGP needs to be where the Tories were post-Campbell, down even below official party status

  29. In 2016 voted for Trump because he wasn’t Hillary. I expected he would end up being a deal maker and move off many of his campaign positions, but Democrats/establishment hated him and the fact he won despite their best efforts to get Hillary elected that they want scorched earth to destroy him, ending any chance of cutting deals with him.

    In 2020 vote FOR him, because he had showed that he was willing to stand up for Americans and American citizenry and go after the unelected bureacrats who believe themselves to our rules.

    In 2024 I expect that the same conspirators who sought to destroy him as soon as he appeared to be a candidate in 2015 will work to prevent his getting elected “by any means necessary” and that if he wins notwithstanding that effort, they will simply outright murder him. His choice of VP is going to be very important (assuming they don’t murder the VP as well if the VP choice is not approved). Why wouldn’t they-if they truly think of him as “literally Hitler”, it should be completely expected for them to resort to outright assassination “to prevent him from being anywhere near the presidency ever again”.

    The fact that this would have far reaching consequences and potentially be the end of the republic is either something they don’t consider, or view as a feature rather than a bug.

    1. The House remains very important. Now, if something happens to Joe and Kamala, we get President McCarthy.

  30. I’m a numbers guy. I’m a bit surprised that no one has pointed out that if Trump wins in 2024, he will be older at the start of his second term than President Reagan was at the end of his second term.

    Reagan was clearly beginning to fade during his second term, which ended just short of his 78th birthday. Trump would be well past his 78th birthday on Inauguration Day in 2025. If he serves a full term, Trump would be into his eighties before the end. He would become the oldest serving president of the United States, surpassing the record of President Biden (if Biden completes his term).

    This is not a statement critical of Donald Trump’s character or politics. He appears in good health for a man well into his 70s, but as many people have pointed out, old age eventually vanquishes everyone. I am uneasy at the thought of an octogenarian President. I leave evaluation of the effectiveness of the current octogenarian President as an exercise for the Reader.

    If the Democrats run Biden again (not a given), Trump would be our geezer against their geezer. I do not claim it is a decisive issue, but age is one area where DeSantis clearly has an advantage over Trump and Biden, and I have not seen that mentioned in this discussion. I’m a numbers guy, and age is more than just a number.

    1. We are not aging as we did in the 80s, like it or not. 82 was very old in the eighties. In fact, I didn’t see an eighty year old until I was 14, in 1976 and he was WRECKED, worse than even Biden now.
      Now, with exceptions — and Biden was always VERY stupid, which for some reason makes aging harder, observably — 80 is the beginning of “being old” kind of like 60 was in the eighties. Heck, I’m 60 and I’m probably were 50 year olds were in the 80s. (And I’m not in amazing shape. Yes, working on it.) My parents are near ninety and mid nineties (likely, that last is a guess, for various reasons) and doing well and living independently.
      No, it’s not universal. There are always people who are old at sixty. BUT it’s not the eighties.
      And Trump is likely to stay sharp, just because he’s a fighter.
      NOT worried.

      1. Agreed Trump is a fighter, and he is the guy I would vote for if he wins the nomination, which seems likely.

        I have stated that I think Trump has aged well. Nonetheless, I do not think by any standards he could be considered a young or even a middle-aged man at eighty. I still think DeSantis clearly gets the edge the on the age issue, being more than 32 years younger than Trump.

        I think there is reason for age to be a concern, and you don’t seem to. With sincerity, I hope your opinion proves right.

          2. By this reasoning, Biden should be the most awesome President ever .

            The effects of advancing age are not uniform across population, but they are real. As both an author and student of literature, you are doubtless aware that the message that age eventually vanquishes everyone is a topic that many authors have explored.

            Perhaps Trump can forestall significant decline past the age of 82. I hope he can. I hope I can (I’m not much older than you now).

            And of all the names I have heard President Trump called, “innocent” is not one of them. You may be able to convince me that in some areas he is naïve or inexperienced, since no human is expert in all things. I doubt that he would qualify as a polymath, although his general knowledge seems ok, probably better than average.

            I am willing to concede that on Election Day 2024, Donald John Trump may be the best available choice for President. At this time, that is not obvious to me. Following Falkland’s Rule: “When it is not necessary to make a decision, it is necessary not to make a decision”.

            1. Sigh. Obviously there needs to be intelligence and a love of the country to begin with.
              Joe is next door to a Chinese vegetable as we can get outside the plant kingdom.

            2. Good gravy. Last time I looked, Donald Trump hasn’t had two brain aneurysms (that we know about), unlike FICUS.

              One more time for slow socialists: Medical condition at any age is INDIVIDUAL. And Donald Trump shows no signs of issues.

                1. In response to snelson143, name any 80 year old world class athlete.

                  We are going to elect a world-class leader.

                  I have repeatedly stated that Trump may be the best choice that we have.

                  I am a numbers guy. I understand the difference between correlation and causation. There is clear negative correlation between age and mental acuity past a certain age. There are many confirming studies, but I’m too lazy dig through the pile right now. As an individual, Trump may do fine, but he is part of a population that statistically has more issues.

                  And as I have also tried to make clear, we don’t have to decide today or a year from today.

                  If you want to have a civil discussion, drop the ad hominem attacks. Otherwise I will ignore anything further that you have to say.

                    1. Sigh…

                      I was responding to snelson143. I interpreted what he said as a blanket statement that one cannot make inferences about the medical status of any individual based on age. I gave a counterexample. I am also a scientist with the degree and everything, and when a universal law is proposed, it needs to be true in all cases.

                      I really didn’t expect anything I said to be controversial. I said variations of “Trump may be the best guy, but I’m concerned about his age during a second term.”

                      I rest my case. I hope everyone is ready to move past this.

                    2. I’m completely ready to move past it. Both Biden and Trump are old men. There the resemblance ends.
                      BUT pardon me, being the daughter of parents still in possession of their faculties, and fully able to make their decisions, both older than Trump, I find something unseemly and off-putting about “Let him make way for the young people.”
                      Uh…. how ’bout no.

                    3. I envy your relationship with your parents. You and I are close to the same age. Both of my parents passed before the beginning of the millennium. My mother passed in 1975. As often seems to be the case, I didn’t appreciate what great parents they were until I had my own children. I didn’t appreciate the patience with which they put up with all the stupid selfish crap I did. As the saying goes, they led by example. I try to honor their memory in my relationships with my children.

                      So I respect your respect for your parents. Good family is treasure.

                    4. He’s persisting in the logical fallacy that every member of a category is an identical widget in that category. That’s incorrect no matter how many degrees he holds.

                    2. Perhaps you should make a different argument than “an 80 year old won’t compete in an athletic event against a 25 year old, thus they are a worse choice for a political position.”

                    3. I was responding to a statement that I interpreted to mean that one cannot draw conclusions about the abilities of individuals based on advancing age. I gave a counter example. Sometimes conclusions can be made about individuals based on advancing age.

                      Clearly a Presidential contest is not an athletic competition. It is a different kind of competition. One of the factors that I consider important is cognitive ability. That’s a trickier one to measure than athletic performance. That being said, cognitive decline correlated with advancing age has been studied extensively. I’m not an expert on the subject, but the results seem to clearly indicate that there is a negative correlation between advancing age and cognitive ability. This is a statistical effect. Some people do better and some worse, but the overall trend is decline.

                      Trump may do better than average. He may be undergoing treatments I am unaware of to forestall decline.

                      Trump will be 82 years old if he completes a second term as President. That is old for a human any way you slice it, and it would make Trump the oldest serving President, older than Biden at the end of his first term. I hope that Trump and all 82 year olds will be in good health, but I think that relying on an octogenarian to lead our country is a risk. And as I have said in every post I have made on this topic, Trump may be the best choice we have.

                      For those of you who have parents around that age who are in good health, I am genuinely happy for you and for them.

                      My father died right around that age with Alzheimer’s.

                      That happened awhile ago and I have come to terms with it. I’m not fishing for sympathy. I do not mean to imply that Trump has Alzheimer’s and I do not believe that. I’m just mentioning it to make the point that the health or illness in your family doesn’t have much to do with Trump as an individual.

                    4. I gave a counter example. Sometimes conclusions can be made about individuals based on advancing age.

                      And your counter-example only makes sense if you believe that athletic ability is relevant for political ability.

                      Which loops us back around to where we started.

                    5. I explicitly stated that I do not believe that a Presidential election is an athletic competition.

                      I guess the only way out of this is to admit you are right and try to move on. I don’t know what else to say.

                    6. You stated you do not believe it is an athletic competition, but you also keep re-stating the argument that boils down to it being so, and defending it, and getting upset that people don’t agree with it.

                      Rather than making a good argument, one that makes sense rationally and is supported by evidence.

                    7. I don’t know. I hated the “make way for youth” argument when I was young. I hate it more now.
                      By this argument AOC would do my job better than I do, because she’s YOUNG.

                    8. I “benefited” from the “let the youth lead” … for about three seconds until they realized I was the wrong kind of youth, I wasn’t easily controlled to do what they wanted done, then they flipped to the kids who were carbon copies of what the folks urging the “youth” to lead but easier to manipulate.

                    9. “Let the youth lead” = follow the ones who are young, uninformed, inexperienced and easiest to control

                      and don’t know what an Oxford Comma is 😉

                      And AOC has big bazongas which obviously contain huge brains

      2. I remember what my grandmother was like in her fifties. Not only am I not that old, my mother is not that old.

        1. It does vary. I recall GREAT grandmother, in her (mid? late?) 80’s made a concession to Old Age – she’d take the elevator UP to her sixth floor apartment. She’d take the stairs down. Once, she dropped some paper and went to pick it up – she was down, grabbed the paper, and up again before I got down. A stroke slowed her down, but she did survive into her 90’s – not sure how far.

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  32. To be fair, there are some very good 80 year old athletes who would put me to shame. But I would be very surprised if any of them were winning open world championships or contests that were not age-restricted.

  33. Not often I see someone wield a 22 oz framing hammer and set a 16 penny nail in one swat.

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