Examining the Migrant Horde- Pt 2—The Power Behind the Horde by Bill Reader
Today, we dive headfirst into the logistics of the migrant horde. If you missed my prior article on examining the improbable reporting on the speed of this group, you can find it here. On today’s docket, a discussion of how this group is organized, who is supporting it including what specific organizations and individuals have been named so far, and other logistical errata. Still to be discussed in a future article, the surprisingly tricky question of how many people, and what kind of people, make up the migrant horde.
I’m going to focus most of this article on examining certain key players. Barolo Fuentes, a Honduran socialist who was one of the frontmen for this caravan, and his friends in the LIBRE party; Pueblo sin Fronteras, a project of the Chicago-Based 501c La Familia Latina Unida; and a brief look at Venezuela, recently highlighted by Vice President Pence and currently in the spotlight as a possible funding source for all this.
We’ll begin with the man purported to have started it all— Bartolo Fuentes. First, the official story. My first introduction to him was an article published by The Daily Beast. It’s a characteristically ideologically stilted article. They report caravan #1 as being touched off by a false report that Fuentes would pay all expenses of people traveling North. I quote: “The anchors interviewed a woman who was supposedly part of the caravan. The woman talked about safety in numbers, called Fuentes the organizer and mentioned foreign assistance. The anchors, without any supporting evidence, then said that Fuentes would pay for the migrants’ food and transportation.” Fuentes himself took to the media to counter this false report. The theory runs that the safety in numbers alone, however, still offered an attractive alternative for long-standing holdouts, as Coyotes are very expensive.
Fuentes is described as a “Honduran Lawmaker” by Reuters and a “Social Activist” by NBC. I would call that an intentional mischaracterization. Let me add a couple of things from the Daily Beast article that explain that in more detail. First, his involvement in prior “caravans”: “When Fuentes first became aware of small groups dispersed throughout Honduras that were organizing among themselves to make the trek north, he decided to help out, just as he had done with a previous migrant caravan last April—and indeed throughout his life”. So, this wasn’t just nondescript social activism, but someone who has deliberately and repeatedly assisted specifically with illegal immigration. Now, let me sweeten the deal with the other interesting fact— ” … Bartolo sought refuge in Mexico himself after receiving threats. Central America’s right-wing death squads were notorious and his earlier participation in protests against the U.S.-backed Contras, who used his country as a staging ground in their CIA-backed war on Nicaragua’s Sandinistas, made him a potential target.”. I find that fascinating. Those “death squads” were often as not “revenge squads”. That he had a target on his back makes it likely a more apt description for Mr. Fuentes would be “Honduran Socialist”.
Initially, that was only a suspicion, as the English News media has been strangely incurious about him. So I did some further digging, armed with Google Translate. I first began to get a better idea of his early life in BBC Mundo, which states (translated): “In his youth he was a student leader and since the 1980s he has been known as a militant of the Honduran left . He is currently editor of Vida Laboral magazine and the Honduras Labor web site, which focuses on labor and human rights, in general.”. Vida Laboral means, roughly, Labor Life. All of that tessellates well with what we explored above.
La Tribuna picks up the story above in more detail, and describes him as having organized caravans since 1999. They note also that he is an “ex-deputy” in the National Congress of Honduras, for a group called Libertad y Refundación (Freedom and Refoundation) AKA LIBRE for short. The Honduran government is unicameral, but he was essentially the local equivalent of a senator/representative. Who is LIBRE? Why, they’re a Leftist Political Party in Honduras. They were founded in 2011 by the National Popular Resistance Front/ National People’s Resistance Front (FNRP). LIBRE was christened by Manuel Zelaya, the Honduran president who was deposed in a coup in 2009 (without much success, insofar as his wife ran for president in Honduras in 2013). This coup probably had to do with him running on a conservative platform, and then turning hard Left. Among other things he temporarily brought Honduras into ALBA—the Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America. Wiki summarizes the group thus: “Founded initially by Cuba and Venezuela in 2004, it is associated with socialist and social democratic governments wishing to consolidate regional economic integration based on a vision of social welfare, bartering and mutual economic aid.” That was in 2008. Then, in 2009, per the WSJ, Zelaya “tried to override the Honduran constitution to remain in office despite a term limit.”. Consequently, he was deposed by the military in 2009. The point of this digression being, the more apt short biography is that he’s an ex-representative of a hard left party of a would-be dictator, in the Honduran national legislature. An interesting note on the same subject—he was elected first in 2013, implying that he had come back to the country in the meanwhile, since his self-imposed exile in Mexico.
If you’ve been following the story closely, you can tell me the rest. On October 16th, as the group entered Guatamala, Fuentes was arrested and sent home. The La Tribuna article above notes that since then he has fled Honduras again, out of fear of persecution by the government. He’s hiding in El Salvador at the moment.
While undeniably Hard Leftist, past and present, and a Leftist with considerable status, at that, I couldn’t find evidence that he had done more in organizing the caravan than literally providing general organizational advice to the caravan. For his part, he continues to maintain the heavy lifting was done by a group of “compañeros”— best translated as comrades, in case you doubted, who were members of LIBRE from El Progresso.
This is consistent with what he told La Tribuna on October 16th, 2018, where he said originally 20 organizers from Tegucigalpa and Le Ceiba were involved. He said another 20 joined in Cofradía, and a lady was chosen as a coordinator there. He noted that he did know the original organizers personally—they were ” compañeros” from LIBRE, who he described as “fighters”.
All of this suggests that the original organization of the caravan was indeed put together in Honduras—specifically, by people from LIBRE. The question is, did it stay that way?
To begin to answer that question, we turn our attention to Pueblo Sin Fronteras. To understand that group, first we need to get to know another group— La Familia Latina Unida, an extension of the pro-illegal immigration advocacy 501c out of Chicago, Centro Sin Fronteras. La Familia Latina Unida, in turn, is the organization that runs Pueblo Sin Fronteras. So, to be clear, Centro Sin Fronteras begat La Familia Latina Unida, which begat Pueblo Sin Fronteras. Pueblos Sin Fronteras may not be familiar to you, but their handiwork is—they organized the last caravan which came to the US in April, though that caravan mostly dissolved before it actually reached the border. According to Influence Watch, Centro Sin Fronteras was founded by Emma Lozano, a Chicago pastor and sister of left-wing community organizer Rudy Lozano, in 1987. As to their mission, Centro Sin Fronteras describes themselves thus: “Sin Fronteras led the struggle to end school overcrowding, for adequate housing and health but soon found itself in the middle of the fight for legalization”. The last of these has been an ongoing focus of the group, or really, the cluster of groups. And boiling it down as simply as possible, this group of left-wing 501cs have been involved in prior caravans, and have experience at organizing them.
By the way, I’d like to spotlight one other person some of you with a long memory may remember—the current president and founder of La Familia Latina Unida, Elvira Arellano. Herself an illegal immigrant, she was deported once in 1997, came back, and evaded arrest until 2002, when she was picked up again. She stalled for time in serial appeals, got three stays of deportation, and when all else failed eventually “took refuge in a Chicago Church”, per NBC. Which church? Why Adalberto United Methodist Church, described by the Chicago Tribune as the “sister church” of Lincoln United Methodist Church, where Lozano is/was pastor. They note “Though churches can’t guarantee protection, they are generally off limits to law enforcement raids”. Interesting and fortuitous, then, for an immigration group to be run by a politically minded pastor. Arellano lived there for about a year, to the acclaim of left-wing media, but was deported again in 2007 when she left to be part of a protest. She came back in 2014 with “a group of asylum seekers” (as the Chicago Tribune puts it), and was caught by ICE. Since then she seems to have been running on serial reprieves from deportation, backed up by Saul, her now 18-year-old anchor “baby”. More or less the person you’d expect to be running this group, really.
Centro Sin Fronteras is currently running on the back of grants from the Public Welfare Foundation, and the Wieboldt Foundation—certainly Left-Wing funding organizations, though surprisingly, not directly tied to George Soros. That said, Centro Sin Fronteras, you will perhaps be interested to hear, has been a beneficiary of the National Immigration Forum, which in turn receives donations from the Open Society Foundation, which of course is George Soros’ baby. The last donation was modest and back in 2010, though. I mention it to highlight what Trump has highlighted, and what a lot of those on the Right who have paid attention have known forever— in liberal charitable donation wankery, all roads eventually lead to Soros. The group apparently hasn’t been amazingly good about regularity in tax filings recently, so it’s hard to say how they’re doing of late.
That said, so far three Pueblo sin Fronteras activists have been publicized in connection with the caravan. It’s worth spending a moment to get acquainted with each, from both a funding and organizational perspective. One is Denis Omar Contreras. He’s described by The Washington Post as a Honduran-born “caravan leader”, and representative of Pueblo Sin Fronteras. In the Spanish language press at Nomada and Instituto Humanitas Unisinos you get a touch more detail. He (translated)” wears a green vest to identify himself as a leader and member of the organization Pueblo sin Fronteras”. PSF doesn’t list that as an official costume, so I’m not sure if they mean it indicates both, or just that he’s a leader. Green vests aren’t notable on leaders in recent shots, but one is seen on a person herding people into a truck in a video from my last post. This person doesn’t match the description of Denis Omar Contreras—who is noted in Spanish language media sources above to be wearing sandals for the trip. They note also that he’s currently based out of Tijuana and has been deported from the US seven times in three years, with rumors circulating that he’s a Cayote. He’s seen at times passing down the orders of the “people in charge of the caravan” (La Jornada, translated), and is noted to have been urging people onward to the town of Huixtla, by Nomada. Overall he seems to have a leading role, though not quite the top of the hierarchy. Those would likely be people called “coordinators”, the first of which we saw picked when the caravan was just 40 strong. La Journada intentionally hangs a question mark over who is at the top, referring to the people speaking at a presser for the migrants as (translated) “representatives of the unidentified group”. If I had to put down money, I’d say “comrades” from LIBRE. When the group arrived in Huixtla, Mexico, the “coordinator” terminology was still being used for the higher ups, according to this article from WaPo, implying the basic structure has stayed the same.
Another is Irineo Mujica. He helped organize the April caravan. According to AZCentral, he was also part of this caravan, until he became famous—and incidentally got arrested— over slashing tires on an immigration agency vehicle. The English language press once again downplays his role. Per Nomada, Irineo “spoke in a megaphone and begged the Mexican people to keep helping them./ ‘This exodus was not organized by anyone. It is an answer to the situation. The culprits of this movement are hunger and death.’ “. Apparently hunger and death lurked in the guise of 40-odd Hondurans and an ex-government representative. Actually, given their uniform socialist leanings, there’s some truth to that.
Meanwhile, Alex Mensing, also from Pueblo Sin Fronteras, has this—er—defense of Irineo’s presence: “He was there to help coordinate humanitarian assistance in the city of Tapachula after the caravan ballooned in size and approached Mexico, Mensing said”. Which is to say, they don’t take credit for setting the fire, but they’re adding wood to keep it burning it at this point. And you’d be forgiven for thinking that typically the person shouting into a megaphone at a crowd is one of its leaders. Especially since the WaPo describes megaphones being a pretty typical part of the caravan leader outfit. Between the two, it sounds like Pueblo Sin Fronteras has a more substantial hand in things now, even if (and it’s an unproven “if”, barring a more complete evaluation of the “comrades” initially responsible for this) they didn’t initially. The WaPo report above even describes them as having “taken on a coordinating role” (emphasis mine) at present. Whether that means they now have some hand in the overall direction of the group, though, I can’t say.
By the way, Alex Mensing turns out to be another person with a bit of a history. As reported by The Daily Caller, he was working on behalf of CARA to support April’s caravan. CARA itself contains two groups funded by—you guessed it—Open Society Foundations. His current role is, shall we say, unclear (The cited article, at American Thinker, incidentally, is an excellent exploration of the network of funding and connections that supports illegal immigration advocacy, though I would say it lacks any smoking guns for this caravan).
From this we gather that PSF is probably lending some degree of expertise to the group, and has a spokesperson who seems to have helped arrange funding through NGOs for prior caravans, though he has no proven role in funding at present. That stated—note that PSF has started a CrowdRaise account, currently at $5,000, to provide things for the caravan. These include money for shelter for caravan members, organizers, and volunteers; gear and “logistics”; “know-your-rights and legal process orientation”; “limited emergency food”; “struggles against detention and deportation”, and—well—”materials for banners, paint, canvas, etc.”. From which we can, I assume, expect the group to show up at the border with signs, because lord knows, there’s nothing like a few square feet of cardboard to make me question my own national sovereignty.
Curious, given the involvement of the group, about what they might have contributed to the structure, I hunted for information on how caravans are organized. I will say at the outset that I’m still not sure, but there are hints. Protocol Magazine describes how these groups have previously been set up. “Groups are created by Pueblo Sin Fronteras; each composed of about 15 individuals under one leader. Five groups are then organized into a sector. This is how the caravan is structured and maintains order as the group moves northward.” Sectors would likely be under the jurisdiction of coordinators or the equivalent— the upper ranks of the caravan. It’s a flexible structure, and it would be unsurprising to find that something similar is being used at present, considering the group has added up to 3,000 people at a stroke, and here I’m thinking back to the crossing from Guatemala to Mexico. Note that Fuentes, by his own admission to La Tribuna, was involved in the April caravan and would have seen PSF’s organization firsthand, so it’s plausible that he’d copy it even if PSF wasn’t involved at the start. Supposing that’s the case, it’s interesting that the 40 original organizers were massive overkill for the supposed original group of 160, especially when you consider that the first two groups to meet up sound to be nothing but organizers. In theory they started with organizational capacity for about 600 people, plus the 40 organizers themselves. That suggests they expected at least some growth. At their peak of 7,000 in a single group, they’d have needed a theoretical 460 odd leaders. The Nomada article, however, makes me suspect it’s far fewer in practice. The river crossing purportedly interrupted the organization of the caravan, causing just five young men to step up to organize what was, at minimum, estimated to be 2,000. How many were—and now are—the original organizers is unknown. Contreras is confirmed to be one of the leaders who made it across to the Mexican side. WaPo suggests experienced illegal immigrants—like Pablo Flores of Tela, Honduras—are filling out a lot of the other leadership roles.
The larger, and thornier issue, and one that is still rather ill-explained, to be frank, is where the money and provisions for the migrant caravan are coming from. The above information begins to peel that back. As the CrowdRaise page more or less acknowledges, moving several thousand people by any means, thousands of miles, is no trivial task. It’s a logistical nightmare, really. Armies, tasked with the same problem, have multiple support units, in multiple configurations, to supply and distribute the food, water, and other basic necessities to people in the field. The MSM is mostly portraying people as leaving spontaneously, on a shoestring budget. Fox talks of “many people joining spontaneously while carrying just a few belongings”. AP has a concrete but slightly comical example: “Carlos Leonidas Garcia Urbina, a 28-year-old from Tocoa, Honduras, said he was cutting the grass in his father’s yard when he heard about the caravan, dropped the shears on the ground and ran to join with just 500 lempiras ($20) in his pocket”. [Let me interject as someone who grew up in a Latin country…. cutting the grass? Yeah, doesn’t happen, unless it’s a vast public building. Well, it might in Portugal now the EU has emulsified it. BUT culturally? Ah, no.- SAH]
Initially, the MSM was also trying to sell us on the idea that they weren’t getting any kind of support. Some sources are still acting as if that’s the case. That’s obviously impossible. You can’t not provision and not be supported on the road as you cross the better part of a continent. Of the remainder, most have switched to saying they’re getting spontaneous support, from people noted by CBS to be handing out sandals, or people noted by WaPo to be handing out sandwiches and bags of water. USA Today includes a couple of other groups, though, reporting that “local residents, church groups, and municipal officials in towns where the caravan stops are feeding the migrants”. Which hints that this is a little more than just “spontaneous” support. Even so, that’s a pretty unreliable supply method. Admittedly, that would explain why people are reportedly getting severely dehydrated.
But let’s explore this for a moment. How much support is actually from random Mexican people, and how much is from larger organizations? Well, a different WaPo article makes things that were murky a little clearer, and removes some of the magic much of the MSM is trying to inject into this: ” The coordinators have not mapped an exact route all the way to the border, Flores explains. The stops will be determined by what towns agree to help when they call ahead to ask. At times, they poll the travelers, who decide with a show of hands what path to take. They know their next two stops — Pijijiapan and Tonala — where officials and churches have pledged to set up medical stations and provide food and shelter.”. This would make sense, essentially charting a path from oasis to oasis. The organization of “humanitarian assistance” PSF referred to above probably also explains how Red Cross got on site so fast. Some of this is also coming from Mexican towns, as USA Today said. Says the WaPo: ” Emmanuel Noriega Molina, who runs Mapastepec’s finances, says the municipality and the state of Chiapas are paying for the supplies,” with the help of the churches and Red Cross. Which adds an interesting wrinkle—this isn’t even just a decision on the part of local mayors. Some of this funding is actually coming from Mexico at the state level. Spontaneous assistance, indeed.
That’s not the only issue. We haven’t covered everything. For one thing, there’s the aforementioned fundraising drive. For another thing, there’s this video from Representative Matt Gaetz showing migrants being given cash. He described it as being in Honduras because it was referred to him by a Honduran official, though it’s now been confirmed it happened in Guatemala. The WaPo claims to have debunked it, but only someone extremely sympathetic to the Left would actually buy their debunking as a true debunking. For a start, they don’t actually contest that someone was indeed distributing cash to the horde. Actually, they confirm it. “Through a little digital detective work, we found that the video was shot when the caravan was passing through Chiquimula, Guatemala”. Their big triumphant claim is that there’s no evidence that it’s secretly being funded by the Dems or Dem interests. Or, then again, any evidence of where the money is from at all. Which, to be honest with you, essentially means WaPo and the NYTimes, (which also is claiming this is debunked because “the origin [of the video] is unknown”) are calling this debunked because, well, they won’t do their jobs and figure out where the money is coming from.
Hot on the heels of the above, there’s was the following statement from Mike Pence that “the president of Honduras told me this was organized by leftist groups in Honduras and financed by Venezuela”. Initially, I was taken aback by that, and a little skeptical. After doing the above research? I’m more inclined to credit it. For a start, I know that it was started by leftist groups. LIBRE were the people who touched all this off and the organizational structure still reflects what they initially set up. LIBRE is the party formed by a man who was cozying Honduras up to other socialist governments in the area, including Venezuela, before he was forcibly deposed. Could he have called in a favor? It’s not out of the question. Venezuela has an interest in it, because it gives them an angle—”See what American imperialism did to Honduras? Everybody is leaving.”. Really, the biggest down-check at this point is that Venezuela is in the process of collapsing, but funding for this caravan would probably “only” run into the thousands or low millions, especially with them adding the profoundly infuriating largess of Mexico to supplement that.
And most recently, there’s Beto O’Rourke, as reported by project Veritas and discussed here by PJ Media. I must admit, I enjoy in my partisan heart that this simultaneously reveals a Democratic organization providing support for the caravan—which you’ll recall, a few paragraphs ago, we were strongly assured they weren’t doing—and that it’s happening the context of doing outright illegal things with campaign funds. Unclear here is whether they were just buying things to send down there—which is what they discuss—or whether some actual hard cash made it down that way. It also raises the question: Are other Democrat campaigns besides Beto’s putting cash into it on the sly?
In the end, this group certainly is not as random or as disorganized as it seems. To summarize the above: We know for sure it was started by a group of far left “comrades” in Honduras. Lately, whether any of them were involved in it at the start, the far left group Pueblo Sin Fronteras, subsidiary of a 501c headquartered in Chicago, and currently headed by a radical illegal immigrant, has become involved in the logistics for the caravan. They have had at least two group leaders involved in the caravan, and of those at least one, so far as we know, is still with it. One report from an MSM source suggests they may have members among the current coordinators, who are in charge of the ultimate direction of the caravan. The group structure continues to reflect the leaders/coordinators hierarchy established by LIBRE early on more than PSF’s cadre-style approach, however, with leaders acting more like sheepdogs, lending credence to the idea that PSF didn’t set it up initially. Whether or not inspiration was taken from them early on, though—it could, after all, simply have fallen apart later at the river crossing— there were an awful lot of leaders and relatively few followers in the initial composition, implying that there was an expectation even then that the horde would grow.
On the money side, it seems likely that the group is taking all the free support from Mexico it can get. That support is, unfortunately, substantial, and seems to extend up to the state level. Which tells you something about how Mexicans think of the US—and Americans ought to bear that in mind when discussing issues surrounding illegals. Experienced organizers like PSF are probably also helping get organizations like Red Cross involved. Also, the Catholic church, which it seems to me has clearly lost its way between this and Pope Marx I, is providing aid. But given the fact that the migrants were seen being handed money, and no MSM source I could find was able to either refute that (and in fact seemed to confirm it), nor explain where the money was coming from, there’s more to it than that, and multiple hypotheses for where it’s coming from are very much on the table. We can add that the group got provided with buses chartered by… *collective media crickets*, and we still don’t know, well, first and foremost, if any of them are using them right now. It seems that some money and provisioning is coming both from crowdfunding and, apparently, misuse of campaign contributions by Beto O’Rourke’s campaign. It will be interesting to see whether other Democrats have been similarly bad with their money. Project Veritas has shown a great deal of capacity to surprise. Funding from Venezuela is as yet unproven, but given who organized the march and the person who founded LIBRE—as well as the fact that they had a prominent party member traveling with them, greatly increasing the chances the senior members thereof knew about it—I wouldn’t discount it at this point. Remember that the person initially interviewed, who said Fuentes would be funding the operation, also ” mentioned foreign assistance”. Other organizations, both NGOs like CARA and government-funded organizations, like USAID (as suggested by Gateway Pundit) have been suggested as funding sources. Regarding the latter, apart from one picture of a person with a bag—which in fairness, hasn’t really been shown to be provided for this march, and hasn’t been matched with photos of any other migrants holding one—I couldn’t find anything else linking them. This starts to get into territory where nobody knows anything—there’s not really any evidence, even circumstantial evidence, to go on.
Let me say in closing, regarding the above—this is the fundamental problem with investigative reporters not doing their damned jobs. The Left has learned that being incurious about a subject fails to provide inconvenient counter-evidence that they’d then have to hide—something they weren’t above doing with exonerating information regarding Kavanaugh. Moreover, it leads people to speculate, which invariably means there will be one or two misfires they can “debunk”. They do less work and get more effective propaganda. Easy as that. That may be why I was noticing a night-and-day difference between the level of biographical depth provided for key figures in the caravan between English and Spanish-language media. Put it this way, when Instapundit posted the story that the LA Times Spanish language section endorsed the latin candidates, rather than their Caucasian rivals who were endorsed in the English section? I can’t say I was really surprised. English and Spanish-speakers are getting two very different views of the same story, and the English language one is, ah, curated, shall we say. That places like NBC and the Daily Beast would prefer you not know these people are radical leftists is plainly evident, and small wonder given their political leanings. Even after all this, while we can certainly put paid to the spontaneity and non-ideological claims about the caravan organizers, and to the claims that US money isn’t helping fund this, the MSM continues to weave an unrealistic vision of the logistical complexity of the caravan. And some questions that journalists could be pursuing in that area, simply aren’t being answered.
111 thoughts on “Examining the Migrant Horde- Pt 2—The Power Behind the Horde by Bill Reader”
First a minor quibble about the Honduran “Coup”. The overthrow of Zeyala was actually a requirement of the constitution when he tried to break the thing. The Coup in place was his, not the military. The Military and the courts of Honduras were just following the law when they deposed him. Basically Honduras has/had (not sure if it got changed but have not looked) a “This Time, We REALLY Mean It!” clause in the constitution to prevent “President For Life” from ever happening. The Pre-filled in paper ballots printed in Venezuela to support his vote were simply icing on the illegal cake he was trying to bake up.
My understanding is that the Constitution had a “Don’t ever do this for your own benefit!” clause about trying to change the “can’t serve more than one term” clause. But the Constitution didn’t exactly go about explaining how the president was to be removed from office in the event that he violated that clause.
Also, iirc, due to international outcry over the mess, Zelaya was allowed back into office to serve out the rest of his term.
IIRC, both the Honduran supreme court and legislature requested the Honduran military to remove Zelaya. And the Obama Regime were among the scum demanding Zelaya be restored to office.
Yes, I think it was left to the court to remove him and the quiblers were saying they couldn’t use the military to do it . . . those that were claiming that outright they could not remove him at all because . . . well they didn’t need a reason, they just couldn’t!! no matter what the country’s constitution actually said.
Ah. So we did contribute to their problems, if not the way the Left would like to pretend.
And the Obama Regime were among the scum demanding Zelaya be restored to office.
Which is why I laugh at the hypocrisy of the Dems bleating about ‘Russian interference in the elections.’
First: @Sara Hoyt – great research!
I would urge to follow the money financing the invasion into this republic going back to 2008 and beginning with the UN’s planner Maurice Strong. Included in Agenda 21 were items such as meddling in countries affairs to trigger mass emigration from Latin America into the targeted country: USA.
Next: HRC in agreement with Obama et al interfered in Honduras’ affairs beginning in 2008. Not only did she supported Zelaya remaining in office after his ‘constitutional’ term was up but continuously ignored even after the supreme court demanded Zelaya to stand down.
The involvement of HRC as SOS did not end there but to make a long story short after Zelaya was deposed a subsequent replacement later and chosen by the Honduran people strangely ended up being assassinated ergo the continuation of HRC was the beginning of destruction in Honduras. Yes – Hillary was fingered to be involved in the assassination of the politician who indeed was not only be words but deed one conservative.
If you want to know who is funding this large emigration look no further than our DC politicians. It is you and I – ever taxpayer that in end pays for our own invasion of people who are Marxist and can be added to the plans to destroy these United States of America. After all HRC and Obama both carried out plans to reduce this republic to one without borders ergo removed sovereignty overrun by ‘brown’ people similar to what happen across Europe under Angela Merkel – daughter of Adolf Hitler.
Look closely at the OMNISBUS bill passed by Paul Ryan and the rest. Intentionally operating without a budget from 2007 until 2016 – every years end this bill included 2.3 billion dollars plus tp fund ‘refugees’. Of course not directly by all this shindig to pay these millions of invaders entering going back to 2009 in intervals or wave after wave – it was engineered in a way Americans wouldn’t notice. So in other words: the UN, USAID, Red Cross, Catholic charities and others likewise together with politicians in both parties reimbursed all the entities and groups for cost incurred to move these invaders to the US and place, house, feed, clothe and care for them all the way into settling in America.
That’s how its done – our own politicians conspired to sell us out and somewhat succeeded.
Right now as of this moment 14,000 strong are 300 miles from our border planning to force their way into the US.
The plan and agenda for the US was captured by the NSA and our military intelligence titled: “The 16 Year Plan do Destroy America” and started to be carried bout beginning with the Manchurian candidate and finalized by none other than HRC in 2016. That is why she had to win – she must win and their thought ‘she would never lose’ ergo here we are.
@Sara: add these facts into your research and you find the sources, causes and end plan for this republic: It was all planned – they call it treason!!
Each taxpayer should be outraged – they have been paying for years for their own destruction! Sad – really sad but DC doesn’t care until president Trump won.
Now it will blow up in these traitors faces.
It’s not my post. It’s my friend’s. It’s a guest post by Bill Reader.
Also minor nit. You’re misspelling my name.
Please accept my apology for the misspelling of your name!
My apology to @Bill Reader who deserves the credit for his great research into this subject! 🙂
yep. Barry the Unready loved him some commie.
Yes! Just one more example of Progressives acting to shore up Leftist politicians.
Then, lying about it.
What little I recall the court was to arrest him for it, but it was a bit vague about who exactly was to do it. All the other nonsense was pressure from like minded fools and they shoulda said “Sod Off” to everyone, but, iirc, a lot of aid was promised to be removed if they didn’t put him back in.
How dare they remove a president for breaking the constutution! You only do that to “Rightwing” presidents for upholding them!
they shoulda shot him
These are the same people,mind you, who would be screaming for the military to “remove” Trump (or any Republican President) who wanted to change the Constitution to allow himself more than two terms. Because it’s not only okay when they do it, it’s encouraged. Necessary, even.
but of course
They dreamed it for Clinton, and again for 0bama.
I believe the recommended way to remove a president from office for violating the one term clause is in a body bag. For 3rd world countries, it’s kind of traditional.
I think that’s what he meant. Or at least in conversation he talks with disdain about the crazy cake Zelaya attempt. Which btw, Barry the Unready supported.
Barry was hoping to have a precedent set and dreamed of being able to set up the same.
I notice that you stop far short of concluding that we always should have been killing instead of deporting, that Obama was responsible, or that we need to Arthur Harris Mexico.
Re: the situation with serial illegal immigrant Elvira Arellano; why haven’t we instituted ‘deportation via Civl War mortar’, yet?
I’ve been suggesting expulsion via trebuchet for years now.
Not our problem once they clear the border…
Charges of littering or dumping trash without a permit from Mexico perhaps. Given some of their blatant recent actions, I’m not all that worried.
Mostly desert along our southern border. Perhaps irrigation with circulatory fluids will cause the desert to bloom.
Trebuchets are cheaper. No consumables. ~:D
Good question, sir, good question.
I don’t think she would fit.
For me,mwhat it comes to is; The Left isn’t going to let any examinatiin of the details make it to the public if they can help it, and minutiae makes for lousy soundbites anyway. Stick to the basics; “They ain’t playing by the rules, they can’t some in.”
When we are accused of shooting pregnant women who just wanted refuge, we say “Screams the party that supports the murder of half a million children ever year.”
Making detail analysis of the ‘caravan’ is pointless. It would onoy mean something if the Left had any intention of rational debate.
BTW, just for sh*ts and giggles, my bet for funding is that it’s scheduled as a tv series on Netflix.
It’s never been about rational debate with the left, something they are incapable of since their beliefs are a religion for them.
What it’s about is demonstrating their duplicity and true intentions to the vast majority of the public in the middle who will listen to reason if only we can get past the emotional tricks pulled by the left and supported by most of the media.
I understand the satisfaction for showing the Political Left to be a bunch of importunate toads, I really do, but I am less and less convinced of the necessity or even the utility of the exercise. If we can yank the ‘vote fraud’ carpet out from under them, I think the majority of the country, outside of the Left’s little enclaves, is simply sick to the teeth of the condescending swine. I think the time is coming soon, if it hasn’t already arrived, when the majority of the voters, and the majority of the districts, will simply answer each Lefty ploy by saying “F*ck off, sit down, and shut your piehole”.
I wish I could believe that, but I do keep running into apparently sincere ones.
There’s sincere people who think Elvis is still alive too.
Doesn’t mean I’m going to try to have a rational discussion with them about it. That’s going to be a short discussion. “Yeah, really he’s still alive, eh? Okay brother, you have a good day now,” and me exiting stage right.
Going to be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. The one thing we should all be clear on is that everything in the media about it today, every single thing, is untrue. Either by accident or on purpose, it just ain’t so.
Problem is that believing elvis is still alive doesn’t really affect me. These nuts do. I’m expecting a 5 figure cut in take home under speaker Pelousi and if state goes blue, or blue enough to bow before teachers union.
I do wonder how long until the blue dog ploy fails. Half of the dems running are hiding that affiliation, talking how independent they are, extolling their past work in military or similar. But each and every one will vote the hag the gavel. Each and every one will vote as directed. Same as 2006-2009. But it’s worked twice already in special elections and will be the tipover for control.
Sadly the left is very good at ripping down edifaces and cons then cannot get the up again before another shift.
I think that between the Veritas Project videos and the Kavanaugh freakshow that a lot of Blue-anything credibility is shot to hell. That specifically includes the media and the pollsters.
Trouble being that unless one is tapped into online conservative media or maybe Fox you’ll hear precious little of what’s really going on. Even Fox seems to be increasingly skewing left these days, or at least some of their pundits appear headed in that direction.
Yeah, Fox has started being converged about 10 years ago.
$SPOUSE (the TV news watcher) has seen the leftward shift of Fox News, but shy says that Fox Business is still pretty righteous.
I’m noticing (and getting annoyed) at Drudge drifting leftward.
I hope you’re right. I THINK you are. The problem is that fraud.
After reading Bill Reader’s passage above, I’m tending to agree with Sarah’s conjecture that we’re going to have a pregnant woman executed before all is said and done.
Yep – it’s a simple request: don’t wanna play by the rules? No entry.
I’m not sure I worry much about who is organizing it, or who is paying for it. I already assumed it was a Leftist thing. What I can’t figure out is what’s the point?
So a bunch of people from a third world country walk a long way because they want… what exactly? Are they really under the delusion that bingo, they’ll get citizenship just for being so physically fit? Are they expecting to force there way in? I don’t get it.
The Left suffers from the delusion that if Trump hangs tough and uses force to keep them out, all the people who voted for him because they wanted illegal immigrants kept out will suddenly have a change of heart, or the Left will be able to make us change our minds somehow, or some such lefty “Step three: Profit!” thinking.
They think they can make Trump change his tactics, somehow. That this can force him into a corner and show that he really is……and that’s where they lose me. Really is WHAT, exactly?
Sorry, Proggies, we really DON’T want open borders. We really DON’T friggin’ care what ICE does to wetbacks, so long as it isn’t ‘catch and release’. We really DO want to see the politicians in every friggin’ ‘sanctuary’ area (City, State, whatever) hauled away in chains.
Because we really friggin’ are sick to the teeth of YOU!
I hereby propose legislation designating anyone found in public wearing an ANTIFA logo or a Che image to be a pinata.
Yes, I woke up grumpy this morning.
They are hoping for the squishy ones to see meanie Trump and get emotional dislike. Between the ‘can’t we all get along’ factions and the emotionally susceptible the theory is that by playing up chaos and these bad pr situations to tug at heartstrings you will have people wanting the calmness of the Obama years and a less mean face on the country.
This is part of a large term project. Import millions of expected Democratic Party voters, grant them amnesty and voting rights at the first possible opportunity, and use their votes as a springboard to maintain perpetual absolute power. They know they can’t get enough people to vote for Marxism so they are simply going to get a new electorate that is willing to give them what they want. Whether that happens now or 5 years from now, or 10 years from now, like a lot of leftists schooled and participating in “the long march” they are confident they will be able to do this and achieve their dream of “fundamentally transforming America”.
President Trump has been doing just about everything I voted for him to do.
And he hasn’t been causing any problems for people who actually obey the laws of this country.
Change of heart? Hell No! I’m voting for him again in 2020, unless Jesus himself decides to come back then.
In 2016 I voted for Donald Trump because he isn’t Hillary Clinton.
In 2020 I’ll vote for Donald Trump because he’s Donald Trump.
2016 Donald Trump is NOT Her.
2020 Donald Trump IS Donald Trump. He has earned my vote. He does have a couple of years to screw up, but … looking promising.
You’re spot on. I was leery of Trunp in 2016, but any way you cut it, he was infinitely preferable to Clinton. In 2018, he’s won me over and I’ll be voting for him and not against whatever hack, septuagenarian stiff the Democrats prop up.
Mrs. Hoyt, you’ve done great work here, but it astounds me that there’s such a shortage of journalists that a science fiction writer is doing their jobs for them. Pretty odd… /s
Actually my friend, Bill Reader, is doing the work, not I.
Ah, yes. I should have noticed that. Nonetheless, I’m not seeing this kind of material anywhere else (except for places linking here.)
Which is why I told him he should write it out for my blog, when he was telling me this stuff over the phone.
My one real problem with you comment is using the slur “Wetback”.
My first wife was a Mexican. Her family applied to program and were accepted. I don’t have all the details, but I know that all the paperwork was approved and they legally moved to the US when she was a toddler. In the time her parents lived in the US, they lived law abiding lives, worked hard, and paid taxes. She still lives in the US (Still perfectly legally).
Our daughter is, of course, half Mexican and half Viking (well, mostly European mongrel, but we claim the “probably more than 1/1024 Viking” part. LOL!!!). Looks wise, she STRONGLY takes after her mother (lucky girl) so there is no mistaking her Mexican heritage, but really she’s all American. Likes anime, Halloween is her favorite holiday (not Día de los Muertos, American Halloween), and she barely speaks Spanish (which I find confusing since I’m sure she was fairly fluent as a small child).
And all her life, she’s had assholes calling her a wetback. Just sayin.
“And all her life, she’s had assholes calling her a wetback. Just sayin.”
But probably not one than once each, am I right? ~:D
So many assholes, so little time. And limited ammunition.
Would be nice, but answering words, even s#!tty racist words, with fists only gets you thrown in jail.
Civilization is great and all, but it sure does suck sometimes when cowards hide behind laws in order to be incivil with impunity.
Meh. MY kids get called wetbacks. Seriously. They’ve learned to let it slide.
Also, neither of them speaks Portuguese, though the older DID speak Portuguese before English. Then starting at about one and a half completely ignored Portuguese.
Both DO swear fluently in Portuguese.
Both DO swear fluently in Portuguese.
LOL!!! My daughter too (Mexican Spanish though, and I couldn’t say just how fluent, but on the extremely rare occasions she has done it – when I’m around – she sure sounds like her mother.)
At least they remember the important stuff. LOL!
I don’t much care for the phrase myself, but a-holes gonna a-hole. Your daughter is not an illegal alien, but there are illegal aliens; the gal in my high school class who was born in Germany (military family, mutt) got called Nazi.
Because a-holes gonna a-hole.
One guy interviewed by Fox claimed that he’d been convicted of murder in the US. He said that after he got amnesty, he was going to appeal to Trump to get a pardon.
So, yeah, they might really think that they’re going to get to stay in the US.
Why not? All their friends and relatives did.
The media, various states and cities, and one major political party, are also enthusiastically on their side. Sure, Trump talks big about border security dealing with illegals, but so did all of his predecessors. Nothing bad ever happened; instead, they got DACA and pardons and Welfare and aid from agencies set up specifically for their benefit.
Why should things be any different now?
We’ll know when we find out if Trump blinks.
Yep. Our border security is more concerned with whether a canuck nurse take med marijuana than the thousands of invaders that break in each probably week. Until either you can fully wrest the megaphone from media and tech or important people start getting hurt and cannot just isolate you are going to be unable to really do anything against groups like this.
The not only lack of support but outright sabotage by courts and legislature don’t help. You have stuff like Flores that force illegals with a child shield to be released, a legislature that won’t make changes to law so that the system can’t be as easily gamed, and populace that swings in the wind of the media. Never mind that so much of those groups are monolithically against gaining control of border.
Not one of Trump’s proposals would not get plurality or outright majority amont the populace if it was honestly stated, but the ones that can drive anything don’t want it and thus ignote and demonize it.
And this is a nominally Republican legislature. I am expecting an unexpected shortfall in ICE funds in the next budget, namely the apprehension and deportation parts. Already buckled on omnibuses because needed to revive parts of military so who is to say it won’t simply repeat.
It is, but keep in mind that they have been for the most part unwilling to effectively deal with the Democrats obstruction tactics, and the Democrats are confident that they can get Obama appointees and the 9th Circuit to overturn anything that Trump and Republicans do anway, at least long enough for them to get pack the Presidency and pack the Supreme Court with more leftists. That’s why the one thing the Senate has been doing, confirming Trump judicial nominees, is so crucial.
Another ten percent of the 9th Circuit just became Trump appointees.
I’m pretty sure that having a felony conviction in the US pretty much disqualifies him from EVER getting US citizenship. That he thinks he’ll be given amnesty, and then have a snowball’s chance at a Pardon, means either he’s also delusional, or being lied to by someone. Unfortunately I worry that it might be both, and it’s being done specifically because someone that delusional, that has and already proven track record for solving problems with violence, is exactly the kind of person they want in the caravan when it reaches the boarder. Someone like that is a whole lot less likely to look around and see he’s surrounded by women and children before he starts throwing rocks, or worse.
There’s other caravans forming every day. That’s the left’s idea. invasion by the little brownz peoplez who, in leftists’ minds bear socialism in their genes.
I was thinking the same thing. I kinda understand why the organizers do Hy-Vee they are fanatics, but why would anyone out their child through this. It has to come back to being promised something, probably money.
OR not their child. Anyone remember the 6 year old abandoned in the US dessert after the last caravan?
Aaaand now I’ve got this song stuck in my head:
You too, huh?
Thank you for these analysese. When my local news outlets are running stories about how all the women andchildren are walking so far and just barely survivng with great detail on the dust, the age of the kid, but not on where the food is comingfrom or howsomeone ccarrying a three year old walks 40 miles in less than 24 hours, your info is a great balance.
Also, the Catholic church, which it seems to me has clearly lost its way between this and Pope Marx I, is providing aid.
As much as it infuriates me– we’ll just say that we’ve seriously discussed our competing moral obligations when it comes to tithing– the local churches feeding the invasion force isn’t really a matter of support*.
It’d be horrible if that big of a mob came through in the US, where we both have a decent amount of leeway and a strong gun culture.
Imagine it going through an area where they ALREADY have serious issues keeping away from hand-to-mouth, and both are disarmed and are trained to know that fighting beside your neighbor when he’s attacked gets you killed in horrific ways, and locusts would be an improvement. At least they’d be unlikely to burn down the house or assault your ladies.
*I have a rather strong suspicion that there’s a lot of underhanded junk going on, because… Mexico. And aid work. Duh.
Yeah. If the people in the caravan weren’t getting local support, then the military would likely need to be called in. You’re talking about a division’s worth of people, many of them armed. And they’re not going to voluntarily starve to death just because the locals didn’t engage in charity.
So, again, the easiest way for the locals to deal with this problem is to get the caravan on its way as quickly as possible so that it becomes someone else’s problem.
Only one or two more days to get to the border and kill the woman to influence the election. a) Has it happened yet? b) Any chance this could peter out with a bunch of people stranded in the desert?
Nothing has made the media, as best as I can tell. It’s kind of late to afflict the election, and way too early for 2020, unless they think the Dems will get the House and Senate, in which case, it could be tarted up grounds for impeachment. (Charge 1: He hurt their feewings!)
Eh, if they got a kent state even with a nominally Republican Senate I’d give even odds on conviction. The rulers don’t like borders on either side and media will scare em by running the footage continuously so the squishy soccer moms want to punish those called responsible.
If they didn’t make it to the border by Tuesday morning 8AM, I expect all the transportation and free lunches will miraculously vanish, and Mexico will suddenly be appealing to the USA for emergency aid money. That’s how Lefties roll.
Of one thing we can be sure, if they do end up stranded in the Mexican desert we are never going to hear about it in the lamestream media. Pregnant women and little children dying of thirst in the heat, because the Lefty moneymen abandoned them? Zero coverage. Nada. For sure.
I can say that with considerable assurance because pregnant women and little children die in the Arizona desert every frigging week. Those volunteer Nazis, the armed civilians who go out in the desert every day because the cops won’t? They find bodies. So many that the morgue in Tucson had to lease new freezers. Because the existing one was full. Like, to the ceiling.
National media? Not a word. It was in the Arizona Republic and the Tuscon newspaper. That’s it. Same with Texas and people drowning in the Rio Grande. Dozens per month.
Folks thought that to-do about the kid left by his “uncle” in the desert was a media thing.
They were delighted because they found him alive.
Yeah. Catholic Diocese in NH is pro-illegal immigrant. I chose not to give any donations this year.
By Canon Law, if you give to say the building fund, they can only use it for that. (Laws are only as good as their enforcement, but money does get eyeballed a lot.)
Last year, we gave specifically to the seminarians for the Bishop’s Appeal. I think retired religious, too, can’t remember.
This year, they bundled the Bishop’s Appeal so you couldn’t do that. It was the looooong list of hobby-horses for the local Bishop.
….two months later, they had to ask for donations for the seminarians.
In addition to all the other damage they are doing, the Church being so political is hurting their charitable functions, which is one place where the Catholic Church has always excelled. Washington, D.C. isn’t the only swamp that needs to be drained, but draining the swamp at the Vatican is going to be a long time coming.
We’ve been complaining about it for the last thousand or so years, give or take, and for heaven’s sake the guy who was treasurer for the 12 is immortalized in the New Testament for corruption.
I think this may be a human thing.
Not saying it can’t (greatly) improve, but there is a lot of good, too. St VdP often is the only no-really-won’t-enable-youi charity around.
They all are. Fox is being charitable. I’ve had to put up with more sermons about how good Catholics are for open borders and importing illegals, all about feeding the poor and sharing our bounty.
My reaction is “EFFE NO.”
Also Fox, remember being from an old Catholic church I’m FAR more attuned to when the church decides to play real politik to increase its power. In this case they think importing more Catholic people will give them more power in the US.
They’re wrong. Most illegals are some variety of socialist, crazy or just plain weird.
They probably have a sense that the Church is being eroded in traditional strongholds, and need to do something to continue financially. We see a loss of influence in Ireland, and we know that some of the traditional majority Catholic countries have been having financial trouble.
If this model is correct, that there is desperation induced stupidity, we might expect the organization to get quite a bit stupider before things stabilize.
Oh, I quite agree. (And the…stuff… you’ve been having to listen to is worse than we get here, even!)
It’s just that the LOCAL guys feeding the horde aren’t really showing support. Sort of like I’ll defend my parishes up in Washington from a similar charge.
It was interesting to look at the cash side of this stuff… our parish was decently big, had folks show up every week and all, C&E wasn’t TOO bad and we even had irregulars showing up for Obligation or big feast days. Averaged about $100/month in the donation plate. (they put the number of registered households in some of the bulletins, and there’s always the weekly offering total)
The all-but-one-Mass-is-Spanish language parish was like six times our size…on paper. Their offerings were at a high point half of our parish’s.
Down here in El Paso, most of the volunteer staff is Mexican–but that’s because they’ve basically captured the process required to volunteer. Not a lot of folks can show up at 10AM on a Tuesday for an 8 hour class. Don’t get me started on the charges for CCD and what I suspect of what happens to the “families unable to pay” collection.
On the other hand, being in El Paso, it’s a lot harder to idealize- especially when our head priest is one of those painfully sincere bleeding heart types who actually gets in the thick of it. (He still looks like crud, and his figuring out who he was marching alongside, metaphorically, was months ago. Sudden drop in political talk, though.)
I suspect that a lot of places are going to have a massive drop in offerings as they go hard for illegal immigration.
And folks like EWTN, which is honest about church teaching, is going to have a boom. Lifesite news, too, oddly enough– they’re not Catholic, but they’re willing to report about the good and bad that’s related. No wonder jerks are trying to deplatform them.
For folks wondering about the cash side– 35-25 years ago, my family was low enough income that we had to regularly go in and make the school stop signing us up for free lunches. Our offering was $80/month.
The calculations I mention are less than five years old.
Social progressives are all about charity just so long as it’s your money they’re taking credit for. Heaven forbid they be asked to dip into their own fat wallets.
You’re right, Mrs. Hoyt. Catholicism in countries south of the U.S. is often much more just a cultural thing… like it is with a lot of Jewish people in this country. On the other hand, many of the U.S. bishops, perhaps most (but not the good ones) have aligned themselves with the Democrats, so maybe that’s their angle. All I know is, it’s not fun being Catholic in this context.
I was speaking with some family earlier, and I was told in no uncertain terms to remind all my Democratic friends to head to the polls. . . .
. . . .on Wednesday, November 7. 🙂
Meanwhile, in real voter suppression:
Michael Knowles of The Daily Wire got his Twitter account suspended the other day for tweeting that joke (but, of course, leftists have been tweeting that joke the other way around with impunity).
Oh, that actually makes sense.
See, they know the shabies are stupid enough to fall for it. They know we won’t.
I totally agree.
Remember vote as late as you can (not on the 7th) and answer all the polls with “I plan to vote a straight democratic ticket.” If they don’t know how many votes they need to fake, we win.
Rasmussen’s latest polls show President Trump’s approval at 50% and the generic congressional ballot (for what that’s worth) a statistical dead heat.
This is basically a socialist thing; why aren’t they headed toward Venezuela where the Socialism is?
Probably because many the caravanners simply want free stuff and aren’t socialist idealogues, and realize that Venezuela’s already reached the point articulated by Margaret Thatcher: they’ve run out of Other People’s Money. And for those among them who are willing to work, they know they can earn a lot more working under the table in the US than they ever will in a country whose economy has descended to the point that it suffers toiler paper shortages.
The more robust American economy permits deficit spending to continue here. . . for now. The Trump Administration’s elimination of about a third of the Code of Federal Regulations is probably help in that respect. But how long can it continue at this insane pace?
Ah. Because the reason socialism fails is that everyone else, but mostly us, conspires against them.
Note this suggestion:
What do you want to bet this, or some other, non-lethal means will be deployed to turn one (or more) group(s) into a churning, mass of gotta-get-away wherever they try to force across…?
*And* — if all that is used be Retch Gas or tranquilizer darts, it’s going to be Rather More Difficult to explain that pregnant woman who was shot….
…maybe they will simply trample her in the Stampede From The Border…
As the Phrase-du-jour goes, “You want more Trump? This is how you get more Trump!”
It occurred to me today that what the left will use the horde for is a flash point for after-election riot if they lose. Or perhaps worse if they win and think that they can silence the rest of us forever.
I fully expect rioting no matter which way the elections go. They prepare to riot, they will GET a riot. It’s not a thing they can truly call off. That rocket has already been launched.
Republicans can use the caravan to advantage. Trump can let them enter the country and bus them all to Malibu and East Hampton to await processing of their asylum applications
View at Medium.com
Maybe the feds should seize the land surrounding the Soros estate as a detention and processing center.
On the subject of cutting the grass in Latin countries, I recall cutting the grass twice in the time I was in Brazil, both times a school, and both times with a machete.
I believe it. When it gets waist high. So maybe it’s what he was doing. It just seems unlikely.
Comments are closed.