Fools to the Left of Me, Clowns to the Right

Posted on by Sarah A. Hoyt

No one, not even Drudge is touching the Charlottesville insanity.  Or it wasn’t last night.  That is because “nobody knows nothing.”

Depending on what actually happened and why, this could very well be the fuse that heats the cold civil war.  And if you’re rubbing your hands, don’t be.  Go read about the type of civil war where the populations are thoroughly emulsified.  It’s not pretty, it doesn’t end sometimes for centuries, and it takes civilization down three levels, at least.

And yeah, to quote from the Ankhmorpork anthem “we own all your shoes, we own all your guns, we own all your troops, touch us and you’re done” is tempting, but not really.  Sure, we own all of those, or at least they’re mostly on our side.  The problem is that the other side has a near-psychotic disregard for everyone’s else lives and can build bombs.  They’re not GOOD at it, mind you.  The days of rage proved that.  They blow themselves as much as everyone else, but practice makes perfect, and if this starts we’ll have plenty of time for them to practice.

Then there is the fact that our barely existing Pax Americana (yeah, we SHOULD be thanking Obama for the “barely” in existing part) is not something that will continue while we take a jolly break to pound each other’s heads.

And yet, the way things have been going, with not only an entire cohort that was indoctrinated in Russian propaganda (originally) and then just in America-hatred in our best schools, it might be inevitable.  How long can a nation subsist with the enemy within?  Particularly when the enemy’s power is threatened by new technology.  Particularly when that enemy is financed by Soros who might very well BE the beast of the apocalypse?

In America, if it were healthy, the crazy that happened in the weekend would never have happened.  Both Nazis and communists have the right to say whatever the hell they want to.  As long as they don’t have power, let them scream.  But that’s not possible in the land of safe rooms and microaggressions.

Also in a healthy society, if the fracas had happened because of the usual provocateurs, the rest of society would shake their head and go “So much crazy.” not pile on (particularly on the left side) claiming this just proves all their theories.

And no, to whom it may concern, a region not wanting their past or their regional heroes erased to appease a vocal minority does NOT make them white supremacists.  This idiotic changing of names, removing of statues and erasing people from history is NOT the work of a free society.  It is wholly Stalinist and is letting the rest of the world know you by your fruits as it were.  I have nothing invested in the ACW, except for having studied it enough to know it was more complex than most people think, and I’m only “southern” by fiat of my friends, but even I get outraged at the erasing of the past of the region.  And you know damn well they’re coming for Jefferson and Washington next.  At which point they’ll have to go through me.  It’s the left’s old bullshit of removing the giants of the past so their diminutive stature looks tall.  Pfui.

I still hope it won’t come to physical fighting.  I don’t know if there’s a path where that doesn’t happen and worse doesn’t happen.  But I hope it doesn’t come to physical fighting because I don’t want to indulge the left’s fantasies, either their fantasies of revolution or their fantasies of martyrdom, and this would be one followed by the other.  I don’t want to indulge their wish to bring down America.  Pour oil on the waters wherever you can, and no sale their crazy as much as you can.

And if the evil must come, those of you who are praying people, pray that it’s short, relatively bloodless, and that what comes after doesn’t make the crazies of Charlottesville (both sides) look good.

This is my PJMedia work for the last weeks, and yes, I need to work more:

Mr. Acosta, Can You Hear Me Now?

Big Brother Is Listening to You

Those Who Walk Away From Feminism

A Message to the Children of the Revolution: Grow Up!

368 thoughts on “Fools to the Left of Me, Clowns to the Right”

  1. If this ignites the cold civil war, it will not be because of the riot itself. It will be because of the media’s blatant portrayal of their chosen side as pure and innocent even in the face of video evidence otherwise.

      1. And then you get – as Kevin points out below – the growing surge of “as well hung for a sheep as a lamb” sentiment. More and more our public discourse is turning to howling mobs, whether physically or online. And sane people trapped in a surging mob do not want to die. So if the only option for not dying is over-the-top violence? Well….

        2. Things like calling disagreement “verbal violence” and equating it with actual physical violence means that the only reason I have for not going ahead and using physical violence is my own better nature.

          The thing is, just how sure are these people that I have a better nature? And if I do have one, is it really unlimited?

          1. I must admit I feel tempted to approach the “speech is violence” types, show them a script of insults and a baseball bat and ask which they’d prefer.

              1. Well, tbh, I’m more likely to use the insults and then the baseball bat on some pottery rather than their tiny overheated heads.

                I doubt either method would work on them, alas.

        3. I think this is going to be the ultimate undoing of the Progs. They are so busy accusing everyone constantly for everything and nothing that they are not taking human nature into account.

          If you’re going to be found guilty no matter what then you might as well do the crime. Add to that the blatant racism coming from the Left as the scream about what amounts to fake racism coming from the right and you’ve got a good start to a situation that is pretty much going to blow the f*ck up.

          1. This is what bothers me as well. If you are going to *constantly* accused of being evil and racist, after a while, you don’t care anymore. There is nothing the alt-right could have done that would please the ctrl-left. They politely requested a permit for a demonstration, the goal being the protest of historical icons of Virginia. They were met with violence and lies. Next time, they will be *better* prepared.

            1. Actually, the group I’m most impressed with in terms of preparedness was the militia types. They came locked and loaded – and then proceeded not to use a single one of those guns as they tried to break up the fighting. I hate the fact that the law enforcement used the armed militia as an excuse not to intervene.

              1. In Berkeley and at Evergreen, there weren’t any armed groups except law enforcement, but they stood down anyway, on direct orders from bad guys among Evergreen’s regents and Berkeley’s mayor. We’re going to need armed groups who won’t stand down at every future potential riot — because at this point we can’t assume that any police agency will do its job.

                This has already become a hot war, and we didn’t start it. We need to finish it.

        4. It actually more subtle than violence. It’s a change of attitude. If you’re labeled a racist just because of the color of your skin or where you live, why oppose real racism? There’s a strong possibility of unraveling over a century of improving views on race within a single decade.

          This, in a word, is bad.

          1. Indeed – if you are gonna be branded as a racist anyway, and the howling SJW mob is cheering for your eradication – may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

          2. That decade has already passed. Remember the Tea Party sign? “No matter what this sign says, it’s racist.”

            Where were you since 2006?

            1. Not the same. It’s unraveled when once again most people judge someone only by the color of their skin. While the SJW do that with their idea that culture is genetic, it’s no where pervasive as it was a one time. That, I fear, will change.

            2. Imagine every atom in your body stopping and exploding at the speed of light??? (from memory)

              But yes, Very Bad….

          4. They want to use slurs to smear anyone they don’t like, and have them retain full impact. Childish.

    3. The media is doing all that it can to provoke and continue violence. There will be more incidents like this one to feed the narrative and justify further attacks on Conservatives and President Trump. All of the outrage is one way and that sets the stage for more attacks.

        1. They believe that they can sow seeds of chaos and bring down society so that they can rebuild their ideal society from the ruins. They also believe that they will rule in the new ideal society. Many you see at the riots are just low level cannon fodder necessary for the revolution.

          1. “Many you see at the riots are just low level cannon fodder necessary for the revolution.”

            aka, “Useful idiots.”

            1. I was listening to KUSC on Sunday (USC’s classical music station), and the announcer (DJ just sounds odd when talking about a classical music station) actually quoted Lenin about “Useful idiots”. Caught me off guard.

              1. I gather that the Brits have taken to the term “Presenter” for such personages, which seems appropriate. Especially as they identify the folks reading the news on their newscasts as “presenters.”

                Journalists prepare the news, presenters serve it up.

                The consumers are sick of it.

                1. I once saw a cartoon where the newscaster in front of the camera had an electrical cord which someone was about to plug in. A roommate who was studying broadcasting commented that that was about right. The faces in front of the camera are hired for how many viewers their bosses think they can attract, which has very little to do with their journalistic skills.

            1. And yet, as the people who are always telling us that This Time It Will Be Different, they of all people should know that that’s no protection.

    4. The media share 50% of the responsibility for all wars since the printing press was invented. (Bards and troubadours took too long to pass the news and opinion effectively to incite the common people, which is why the nobility/royalty made the decision to go to war or not before then.)

      1. Let us not forget Viet Nam, where the biggest thing that prevented us from winning was that our casualties were shown in living color on the evening news, every single gosh-darn day. The fact that this destroyed the American population’s morale and more or less forced us to withdraw was certainly not an accident on the networks’ part.

        I don’t believe America will win another major war, even if our country is on the line, unless it restores the regime of censorship during wartime that prevented this from being done to us during either world war.

        2. Let us not forget, we won the Vietnam war, and then the Demonrats in congress defunded all military aide to South Vietnam.

        1. Nah. The last time I turned the tube to the news was to watch Trump win the election. I posted a photo my husband took of me watching it, a big tin of popcorn with me. My schadenboner hasn’t stopped since, and I don’t have a dangle!

          I don’t even bother trying to watch the news for the weather; I make better weather predictions looking out the damn window, and since Australia has this thing of mocking its’ meteorologists (You said it’s gonna be cold this weekend? HA. Have 21 deg C sunny weather, mate!) daily predictions are kind of useless; my hubby’s gotten me to look at hourly forecasts on the app instead. About the only time I can count on the news being reported accurately is if there’s a traffic accident.

          (oh, and @Sarah, I take to twitter now and again; but it’s not helping the schadenboner any to see the useless snowflaky idiots getting their asses handed to them daily, y’know?)

  2. Well said, Sarah. I can tell you that at least in my part of the country (East Tennessee) the first shots fired won’t come from our side. But if shots are fired, they won’t go unanswered, either. They’ll be treated as criminal actions, at least at first and as far as possible, but if things go beyond that we will not allow ourselves and our country to be overwhelmed by the forces of evil (and yes, the left is evil; there’s little way to deny that anymore).

        1. Come to the Hampton Roads/ coastal Virginia part. Lots of Navy bases, and the attendant attitudes and ideas. Plus, pretty country and lots of history. Just stay away from northern Virginia, near NCR. Charlottesville is a college town, which explains a lot of what went on there.

            1. Ah. Me, I think it’s pretty country, but I can’t deal with having to drive through the mountains when I want to go home to the Midwest. Just can’t do it.

                1. I am from the Midwest. Specifically, Illinois, the second flattest state in the Union. The Appalachians are plenty high enough for me, thanks.

                  1. Apparently flatness is all in how you look at it.

                    From Wiki on List of U.S. States by elevation:

                    Which state is “highest” and “lowest” is determined by the definition of “high” and “low”. For instance, Alaska could be regarded as the highest state because Denali, at 20,310 feet (6,190.5 m), is the highest point in the United States. However, Colorado, with the highest mean elevation of any state as well as the highest low point, could also be considered a candidate for “highest state”. Determining which state is “lowest” is equally problematic. California contains the Badwater Basin in Death Valley, at 279 feet (85 m) below sea level, the lowest point in the United States; while Florida has the lowest high point, and Delaware has the lowest mean elevation. Florida is also the flattest state, with the smallest difference between its highest and lowest points.

                    There has been an interesting study published recently on flatness of states, the following is from a March 15, 2014 on line National Geographic article by Brian Clark Howard:

                    To measure the human-scale perception of flatness, Dobson and Campbell analyzed data from the shuttle Radar Topography Mission in geographic information systems (GIS) software. They developed an algorithm that would approximate what a person would see if they were standing in one spot and then turning around in a circle, recording their view of the horizon 16 times in a revolution. Each segment was recorded as not flat, flat, flatter, or flattest.

                    The geographers analyzed all the land across the 48 contiguous U.S. states and the District of Columbia. They opted against including Alaska and Hawaii because they knew neither would be very flat.
                    The algorithm had to run for six days to process all the data.

                    Surprising Findings

                    Based on their own on-the-ground experience, Dobson and Campbell, who hails from southwest Kansas, predicted that Kansas would not be among the top five flattest states. They were right. It took seventh place, behind Florida, Illinois, North Dakota, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Delaware.

                    In fact, Dobson and Campbell had correctly predicted that Florida would be the flattest state, based on their knowledge of its geography. They also predicted that other states with large coastal plains, like South Carolina and Delaware, would prove to be very flat.

                    They whiffed. Dobson was surprised that South Carolina ended up ranking 15th in flatness and that Delaware was as low as sixth.

                    “One that really surprised me was Louisiana,” adds Dobson, who explained that he hadn’t expected it to turn out to be so flat. It was the coastal plain and the wide, flat plain of the Mississippi River Basin that made the difference, he says.

                    The least flat state, West Virginia, also surprised the researchers. Although the state’s nickname is the Mountain State and its flagship public university’s athletic teams are called the Mountaineers, Dobson says the researchers didn’t expect the data would confirm the nicknames to that degree.

                    Other states that are commonly thought of as mountainous included Vermont (45th), Colorado (25th), California (24th), and Utah (23rd).

                    The Spouse grew up in West Virginia, and expressed some surprise on learning that the highest point is only 4,863 feet. I answered that West Virginia has very deep valleys – citing the lyrics, ‘from here on in the hills don’t get any higher, but the valleys, they get deeper and deeper.’

                    According to the methodology of the Dobson/Campbell study that element of contrast makes a difference.

                    1. “I answered that West Virginia has very deep valleys – citing the lyrics, ‘from here on in the hills don’t get any higher, but the valleys, they get deeper and deeper.’”

                      “Where the sun comes up about 10 in the morning.
                      Where the sun goes down about 3 in the day.”

                2. Oh the eastern mountains are mountains. They are just a bit worn down. I have been to other mountains. I found The Rockies huge, rough and at times raw. Fuji rose high in elegant splendor. But I have a love for the Blue Ridge and would not have them dismissed so lightly. The Blue Ridge are considered the second oldest mountains in the world, and in all that time they have eroded a good bit, which explains the large coastal plains below them.

                  I had a friend from the Rockies who had lived at over 6,000 ft with 6,000 more rising up behind her. I took her up to Asheville and from there took the Parkway on up to Mount Mitchell. She openly laughed at me at the first overlook when she read the signage. She told me that back home that elevation could only be reached in a mine. Once we got to the top of Mitchell she admitted that the air smelled like proper mountain air, and the view was mountains — just different.

  4. My ‘favorite’ Leftwing protest sing of the moment;

    “No Free Speech For Fascists!”

    Ok, you’re under arrest, then.

    This mess strikes me as a predictable result of the claim that Trump is a White Supremacist Bigot and all around Austrian Paperhanger Clone. It gives that actual Paperhanger fans the impression that they re accepted by somebody, that they matter. And out they come, to join the cockroaches of the other side.

    Yuck.

    The other thing that strikes me is that we’ve seem months worth of claims about Trump Supporter’s violence that turned out on investigation to be either misunderstanding (on Leftie making a misunderstandable anti-trump statement, and another having a cow) or outright fraud.

    Now there has actually been an instance of Trump-Fascist Violence.

    The Left must be soooooooo happy!

      1. When they came for the 5th Amendment, I said nothing, because I’m not a criminal, so why shouldn’t I talk to the police?

        When they came for the 4th Amendment, I said nothing, because I’m not a terrorist, so what do I have to hide?

        When they came for the the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, because I’m not a gun owner.

        When they came for the 1st Amendment, no one said anything.

        – “Somewhere in NM”, thehighroad.org 08/16/2016

        1. At least we still have the 3rd Amendment!

          (Sadly, we never really got around to getting the 9th and 10th Amendments…)

      2. Many times the law is selectively enforced. I think that in some places the rule of law is close to being broken.

        1. The facts of the matter are irrelevant to the Left and MSM (but I repeat myself.) They need a Rachel Corrie for the anti-Trump efforts and they will manufacture one.

        2. I’m pretty sure the fascists would love an acquittal even more than a conviction. Then they can point to it as proof that the system is corrupt and needs to be destroyed.

          1. Do they really think that things will be better if the system is destroyed? It took the South over a century to recover from the ACW.

            1. Yes. Because they think THEY will be the ones in charge of building the system, and so they will be able to set things up for their benefit.

              1. I think this is a big reason why libertarians aren’t thrilled with the idea of violent revolutions in general. Sure, in theory, they’d *like* to overthrow the government and establish a libertarian paradise…but more often than not, in practice, the government left over after all the dust settles is less free.

                The exceptions you can probably count on one hand. The war that ended with King John signing the Magna Carta (although it took a couple of centuries before kings started taking the document seriously). The English Civil War (which, at its worse, had a government merely as bad as the government that replaced King Charles’s…and then petered out…but put the idea of freedom into the minds of Englishmen and later Americans…). The American Revolution (although libertarians would suggest that even this isn’t an exception — we ended up with the Constitution, which isn’t as freedom-establishing as we’d like it to be — but I would counter that suggestion by pointing out that American colonists weren’t libertarians, but between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, a certain tradition of libertarianism was established, that I’m not fully convinced would have happened had we remained under the Articles of Confederation…).

                In any case, revolutions are playing with fire, and anyone who thinks they could set one and control it — or even merely build on the ashes of civilization afterward — are fools indeed.

      2. You know, crazy as it sounds, the driver may have had a legal right to plow into those people. There have been some legal rulings lately that protestors can not legally block public roads and ways. If the driver had the green light, and there was a No Walk signal, a good lawyer will be able to get the case against him thrown out.

        1. The bat guy was clearly intent on the destruction of another person’s property. The people in front of the car were aiding and abetting the commission of a crime.

        2. I have seen reports that he was having bricks thrown at his car.There were also reports that people were hitting it with the aluminum ball bats that Charlottesville PD let on the scene, but that was after the car crash that I saw that.

  5. Leslie Fish is being unfriended left and right for posting this comment, marking her as “on the side of the KKK and Nazis”:

    Has anybody caught the News from Charlottesville? If so, take it with a very large grain of salt; *I’ve seen this done before*, and I recognize the signs of Wag-The-Dog orchestration. I’ll have a longer report on my blog by tonight, but until then I’ll say: look *very* carefully at what you’re shown on the news, and pay attention to just what is verifiable fact and what is some speaker’s wonderfully emotional opinion.

    1. I had that same reaction. And somehow, when people who shared it are being criticized, you just KNOW that all the fake ‘Trump Supporter Violence’ and ‘Right Wing nut who turned out on examination to be just a nut, or even a leftwing nut’ stories are going to be forgotten.

    2. After looking at the reports, I am of the opinion that this could very likely be a “false flag” operation. So sad someone died because of it though– and so many hurt.

    3. Leslie Fish – of “Banned from Argo” fame? She is no more a fan of KKK and Nazis than I am of Stalin. She’s a step short of being a freaking Anarchist.

      Love her music, but her politics drive me around the bend.

      1. That explains all the pin-up weather-ladies from Latin America.When I read on her bio back in the late 1980s that she was in the IWW (“Wobblies”) that pretty much told me her politics. But she is a strong 2nd Amendment supporter. And writes good music.

        1. WP, what the Monday did you do to my comment? Ignore the first sentence, please.

          *SIIIGH* The computers are out to get me today.

    4. “I’ve seen this done before,” indeed. They did it at Berkeley, and at President Trump’s rallies in San Jose and Chicago last year, and at countless college campuses across the country whenever a conservative or even a mere Republican shows up to give a speech:

      1) The “authorities” attempt to shut down the rally or speech through denial of permits or whatnot, due to “concerns about violence.” Which happened at Charlottesville.

      2) Gather a mob of Antifa, #BlackLiesMatter and whatnot, usually with the connivance of those same “authorities,” if the rally/speech is allowed to go through. Again, Charlottesville.

      3) The “authorities” order the police to stand down and give the lefties space to riot and destroy and break heads. Which they obligingly do. As they did in Charlottesville.

      4) The “authorities” and a complicit media blame the resulting violence on “white supremacists” and “Nazis” and such, even if there wasn’t an actual Nazi or white supremacist within a hundred miles of the event. The only difference here is there actually were a few Nazis at Charlottesville. And a whole lot more fascists on the other side, catspaws with official sanction to be there, and who are now being covered for by the “authorities” and the presstitutes, As usual. Sigh.

      And all of this is being done solely to create chaos, death and violence for the sake of a political talking point. Well, in Charlottesville the “authorities” succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, didn’t they? The only way it could have gone better for them is if Dodge Boy had used an assault rifle to light up the Antifa goons instead of his Challenger.

      And now they want a federal civil rights investigation of the kid in the Chally. They’d do better to investigate Terry McAuliffe and Charlottesville’s #BLM mayor. Not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

      1. Actually, this looks like there might be ways to spoof this approach. Work hard to get the permits for a rally, advertise it – make lots of noise about how this will be a huge demonstration – then on the day of the event don’t show up. The Anti-fa will be there and all worked up – they will riot without anyone around. Publicly report from someone’s private property that you decided to have a BBQ in a different state instead. “Oh, sorry for not telling you, we decided on franks and beers instead”.

        The press would probably find someone way to complain – but it would point out further to those on the fence what is going on.

        -John

    5. Yep. I was on her Facebook page Sunday evening, and all I could think of is “we’re going to be able to live next to these people when Hell’s a hockey rink.”

      Meanwhile, in LA, a reporter was nearly pounded trying to cover the Charlottesville march because “you look like a white supremacist”: He was wearing a dress shirt and slacks as a person of pallor.

      http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/14/journalist-accused-of-looking-like-a-white-supremacist-by-anti-fascists/

  7. This isn’t the first time it’s happened. IIRC 1970s, something similar happened at a KKK rally in Georgia. I don’t see much coming from this one, no matter how much the mainline media waves the bloody shirt. It bears watching, but I’m not worried about it, and I’m a natural worrier.

    Oh, it will ramp up anti-Southern rhetoric, but we’re at the point of how can you tell the difference? If anyone wants to worry, consider that it would very easily push things underground, and cause those who’d never consider aligning with such to do so based on “Hung for a sheep as for a lamb.”

    The issue of monuments is disturbing for a different reason. The lack of tolerance and diversity from those who for decades demanded it is duly noted, and is going to be a factor.

    BTW, the very best protest I ever saw against white supremacists was not a protest at all.It was for a KKK march and rally decades ago in a small town. People didn’t say anything, just gawked at them and dropped offered literature onto the street. And the KKK never returned.

    1. Over at Don Surber’s blog, we call that “mainline media” “the enemedia”.
      That small town was Skokie, Ill, which had a lot of Jews and Holocaust survivors.

    2. I agree. This isn’t a second Fort Sumpter. For one, most Americans aren’t caught up in the rhetoric and ideology of either side: the sense I get here in Iowa is that most people are just keeping their heads down and going about their daily lives. Doesn’t mean they won’t get caught up in things later, but I don’t think either Antifa or the various factions of the alt right have the rallying cry that’s going to spur them on to sacrifice their lives in mass numbers.

      The big thing that may change all that is the onset of the Greater Recession. Illinois is practically bankrupt, and most other states aren’t far behind–and this when the stock market is at record highs. Obama might as well have ended his last term with “apres moi, le deluge.”

      1. From my own social media viewing, I agree with you. There was a lot of shock and horror and all for a day or two, but I don’t worry about the rhetoric for the first two days. And I’m not seeing anything beyond the usual level of disgust in the great middle, as in, ‘Oh no, those jerks had a riot. Moving on…’

    3. In 1979 I was living in Greensboro, NC. On November 3 the Communist Workers’ Party (Maoist) held a ‘Death to the Klan Rally’ in the Morningside Housing Project. The rally itself had not drawn very many.

      A number of armed members of the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party arrived and proceed to shoot at the organizers of the rally. Five died, four of them CWP members, and eleven demonstrators and a Klansman were wounded.

      The KKK and the ANP had been under observation of the police. A detective and photographer followed them to the rally. The police failed to intervene, and after creating mayhem the shooters fled the scene.

      All of this was reported by the network news as !race rioting! in Greensboro, burying the communist angle. Daddy, who lives in Philadelphia, saw the news that evening called me all in a panic. As bad as it was, it was a very isolated incident, which the press climbed upon to sell their narrative.

    4. KKK literature makes a pretty good fire starter for your Saturday afternoon charcoal barbeque.

    5. I have long said that the proper response to KKK marches is to point and laugh at the a-holes in the dunce caps. It’s an ever-shrinking movement that a vast majority of people agree is far past it’s expiration date (and smells it).

      Hell, more people will agree that the KKK is a bunch of worthless a-holes than will agree that puppies are cute.

      1. Are there any members of the KKK who aren’t federal, state, or local law enforcement officers?

        2. Well, ol’ Cleetus over there, maybe. He may have shaken Forrest’s hand at one point, before there was an FBI.

          The rest of them? Nope, and let me tell you it’s aaaawwwwkwwwward to have to pretend to not know the guys from the office while at the local Klan meeting place.

    6. Same happened at the only attempted KKK event I ever saw: the only people who showed up were just there to point and giggle. And that was in horrible, racist Georgia!

  8. Summary of Charlottesville (based on what we know):
    Right-wingers show up to protest removal of statue of Robert E. Lee. Some of them are, to put it bluntly, psychos.
    Left-wingers and “moderates” show up to protest the protest. Some of them are, to put it bluntly, psychos.
    The city of Charlottesville fails to actually do its job. Violence happens–not sure who starts it, could have been either group, given who was there.
    Psycho right-winger decides to escalate drastically. Charlottesville finally does its job.

    Fortunately, these people can both lose.

    1. From the reports even by MSM, it is absolutely clear the violence was started by the left. And close proximity betwen the groups was guarenteed by police herding the alt-right directly through anti-fa then standing by and doing nothing. Also reported in some MSM sites.

      1. Yep. If 1) Antifa et al hadn’t bothered to show up and/or 2) the police had kept everyone well apart and shooed all of them away, 3) We wouldn’t be talking about this.

      2. Also noted by the Virginia ACLU, who stated on their Twitter feed that the cops were not going to intervene until they received orders to do so.

        1. The Washington Post is reporting that the police and Virginia NG did not wade into the crowd to break up fights because that would have required them to break formation.

          The article (Thanks, Althouse!) also notes that there was considerable presence of nonpartisan militia members, standing quietly to discourage violence from either side. Apparently the presence of (gasp) semiautomatic rifles had the authorities’ knickers so knotted they couldn’t dispatch a sergeant to ask the militia what was going on.

          Militiamen came to Charlottesville as neutral First Amendment protectors, commander says
          Of the harrowing images televised nationwide from Saturday’s white nationalist demonstration in Charlottesville, one of the more chilling sights, amid hours of raging hatred and mayhem, was of camo-clad militiamen on the streets, girded for combat in tactical vests and toting military-style semiautomatic rifles.

          Photos and video of the heavily armed cadre — a relatively small force commanded by a 45-year-old machinist and long-ago Navy veteran from western Pennsylvania — spread rapidly on social media, raising fears the clash of hundreds of neo-Nazis and counterprotesters might end in a bloodbath.

          [SNIP]

          In the interview and in a Facebook Live monologue Sunday, Yingling detailed why the militia members participated, how he went about organizing their appearance, and how his group was received — which he said was not with much welcome.

          “Jacka—s,” was how he described both sides, meaning the white nationalists, who billed the gathering as Unite the Right, and the counterprotesters, many marching under the banner of Antifa, for “anti-fascist.” Yingling also criticized police, saying that officers were poorly prepared for the violence and not assertive enough in combating it and that they should have enlisted the militiamen to help prevent the mayhem.

          Instead, about five hours after Yingling and his platoon arrived at 7:30 a.m., they were ordered by police to leave the area, he said. By 1:42 p.m. — when a man reputed to be a neo-Nazi adherent allegedly drove his car intentionally through a crowded pedestrian mall and into a sedan, killing a 32-year-old woman and injuring 19 others — the militiamen were far from Charlottesville, headed back to their encampment 50 miles northeast of the city, Yingling said.

          [SNIP]

          Virginia’s secretary of public safety, Brian Moran, rejected the assertion that police were ill-equipped to handle Saturday’s unrest. “To say we were unprepared or inexperienced is absolutely wrong,” Moran declared Sunday, adding, “We unequivocally acted at the right time and with the appropriate response.”

          He said: “The fighting in the street was sporadic. But soon after it started, we began to have conversations about when to go in. The concern was that the fighting was in the middle of the crowd and that if we went in there, we would lose formation, lose contact. We would be putting the public and law enforcement in jeopardy.

          [END EXCERPT]

          I suppose I am not alone in finding Secretary of public safety Brian Moran’s assurance that they were “having conversations about when to go in” not entirely reassuring.

        2. The British did without police for centuries because each political party felt they’d become the shock troops of some other party. That’s why when they finally built up a formal police system, they were unarmed.

          Maybe we should have taken the hint. After LA, St. Louis, and Berkeley, we might as well assume all PDs are under SJW control.

          1. PDs typically respond to the Mayor and city council, so in the big cities where big government lives, likely so. Other places, not so much.

    2. One aspect not widely reported is that the mayor of Charlottesville, Mike Signer, was, among other things, Senior Policy Advisor at John Podesta’s Center for American Progress and part of the transition team for both Barack Obama and Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe. He was also part of the city commission that is renamed the park and is moving monuments.

      This tends to make me suspicious about how many of the events of the day evolved, particularly the police walking away from violent clashes.

      1. There is a power vacuum at the heart of the Democrat Party and every mid-level politician sees a chance to grab the spotlight and take the Great Leap Forward onto the national stage.

        The MSM is eager to facilitate that vault.

    3. If I read the time line of events correctly, the lefty counter protestors were on site before the ‘White Supremacists’ even got there. And the lefties deliberately agitated and provoked the Supremacists into tearing down the barricades separating them. Granted, the Whitey Uber Alles guys should have chanted the old sticks and stones bit; but if you deliberately slice your arm while swimming in shark-infested waters, you’d better expect to get chomped on.

      1. I’m not sure how credible the Brietbart article/interviews I read this morning are but it made it sound like the police not only stood back while the violence occurred but also channeled both groups in such a way that confrontation was inevitable.

        At this point if I attended any Conservative/Republican event I would go prepared for violence from Antifa/BLM.

      2. Alas, given the politics in the city, I would not be the least surprised to find out that the police “accidentally” let the Antifa attack the White Nationalist Whatevers.

        2. Depending on how reliable some of the things I’ve read today are there was no ‘accident’ about it. It was intentional.

          If only there were organizations who we could trust to report things like this fairly and accurately without involving their biases. . .

      3. Of course they were there first; the Klan guys applied for a permit with the city and had to take it to court. The permit described how they were going to arrive, etc. The cops could have kept the two sides apart and didn’t.

    4. “Right-wingers with a federal court ordered permit show up to protest removal of statue of Robert E. Lee. Some of them are, to put it bluntly, psychos.”

      They followed the law, and the Charlottesville PD deliberately sabotaged it to get enough violence to shut it down anyway. And that’s when people stop following the law.

    2. “See this big chip on my shoulder? Don’t knock it off.”
      *knock*
      “Honestly Mr. Reporter. My hand just accidentally flew over my head and hit the chip on that 7 foot Nazi’s shoulder and he turned me into this German Beer Pretzel because of it. I don’t understand how they can be so unreasonable.”

  10. I am trying to stay out of it… but when folks are saying that it was all the doing of one group and not both, I start to get angry. I can feel the sentiments turn to “skin color.” I’m pale–very pale. I have sisters who are brown. So does this mean I am a white supremacist? and my sisters are the poor minority? I sit here in total shock and disbelief… and it is turning to anger. Why, hasn’t the Antifa been arrested? for their thuggish behavior? Why hasn’t the Neo-Nazis been arrested? for their thuggish behavior? Why are we being painted with the same brush as these two thuggish organizations?

    My opinion is we are reaping the whirlwind from Obama’s community activism of the last eight years.

    1. Too bad Charlottesville doesn’t have a big concrete sports arena where they can haul both groups there, and dump them in a cage match until they work things out one way or another.

      1. In my grumpiest moments I’ve been tempted to vote for locking them into the stadium with a machete apiece. Then hanging the survivors.

        This does smell, to me, as if the Charlottesville and Virginia authorities were hoping for violence and doing their best to hold back until it happened. So toss them all into the middle of the stadium before locking the doors.

        1. Can we give them signs that say ‘No violence’? We all know the Progs have nothing but total respect for law, order, and signs. . .oh wait.

          1. Oh that would be a precious picture. Two groups beating on each other with their “No Violence” signs.

            1. Welcome to Evil Adam Monday’s. This Monday fueled by both excessive amounts of caffeine and sugar 🙂 (Thanks to the 2 trays of cookies that came out of the oven shortly before lunch that I’m busy sampling for quality control purposes. . .)

            2. There is a Kliban cartoon that features two groups beating on each other with signs; one group “Against For” and the other group “For Against”.

    2. I know. “If the White Separatists had not followed the rules for having a public gathering, and had a public gathering, then Antifa and BLM wouldn’t have been forced to show up and try to beat the living daylights out of everyone and then go after the police.”

      “You do realize that there wouldn’t have been a riot if Antifa had not been there.”

      “Hater! White Supremacist bigot h8er blankety blank blank!!!!!!!!”

      1. Now that you mention it, I have noticed the rules against “victim-blaming” seem only to apply to correct victims.

  11. I’m so mad right now I probably shouldn’t post. I might say something . . . unwise.

    1. That’s why Sarah has admin rights. On the other hand, that’s very polite of you not to cause her more work, and I commended you. 🙂

  12. a region not wanting their past or their regional heroes erased to appease a vocal minority does NOT make them white supremacists

    To me, the high water mark would be Arlington’s Confederate Memorial.
    http://arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Confederate-Memorial

    Brushing aside the fact that Arlington was founded because of the Civil War, how dare those CSA soldiers take up space in our cemetery? (presuming, of course, that the SJWs are even giving lip service to honoring military dead). Wish I’d taken the time to go to Arlington when I was on the east coast …

    1. The politicians may have had their own thoughts, but the vast numbers of Union Army officers didn’t consider their Confederate counterparts traitors. If you think of it as “The War Between the States” and not as “The Civil War” you can see why.

      This is a fairly good article on explaining the bonds between the officers of both sides: http://www.historynet.com/americas-civil-war-comes-to-west-point.htm Cadets and officers both left West Point to fight for their states. And were allowed to leave and travel south without being detained even after the shooting started.

    2. The Arlington Cemetery was started on property ceased by Union forces during the Civil War. It is said that this was done to keep the owners from returning after the conflict.

      The house was originally built for George Washington Parke Custis, adopted son of George Washington, his wife Martha’s only grandson on land that his late father had purchased. His daughter Mary married Robert E. Lee and on her father’s death had lifetime possession of the property. Parke Custis’ will had required the manumission of all the slaves within five years of his death, which Robert E. Lee, as executor, did in 1862. The house still stands on the property and is now called Arlington House – The Robert E. Lee Memorial. I toured when I toured the cemetery. It is presently closed for rehabilitation, but plans are to reopen in a month.

  13. I don’t know if it’s entire world or just anglo countries but progressives see themselves as movement beyond borders.

    Whatever American progressives are kvetching about today will soon be echoed by progressives abroad in english speaking countries – here in Canada, progressives have imported correct pronoun nonsense recently.

    I read an article in UK Guardian this morning and trotskyist author thought it was time to fight back against nazis after weekend’s events. Progressives around the world have been triggered by Trump, not just American, and it is unsettling.

    I wonder what happens in other countries if Americans continue to escalate the madness that has overcome them.

    2. It’s the Transnationalism created by the Soviets to weaken it’s enemies. Only Western educated Socialist buy into the transnational brotherhood

    3. To understand the comments in other countries you must remember that freedom of speech does not exist there. All that exists is freedom of approved speech.

  15. And no, to whom it may concern, a region not wanting their past or their regional heroes erased to appease a vocal minority does NOT make them white supremacists.

    All of this leaves me feeling old and tired. Excuse me while I shake a fist at my old self, the demi-radical of the 1960s.

    Here is one of the problems. The region that wants to keep its history is not automatically white supremacists. The cause, and its surrounding publicity has attracted them, for they recognize an opportunity to gain the spotlight when they see it.

    And then there are the just plain crazies. The young man who drove down from Ohio and then drove into the crowd probably wasn’t thinking on all cylinders. Yes, his act could spark bigger things, but then again it could not. There were riots accompanied by dire predictions after the MLK and JFK assignations and during the Democratic Convention in 1968, but we ultimately regained our footing. How do you recognize the Gavrilo Princip before the mayhem begins?

    1. I don’t think you do. The Tom Mboya assassination in Kenya in 1969 was expected to be a Gavrilo Princip moment; I remember actually considering burying my tapes and research notes in the back yard before remembering that the back yard was a thinly covered chunk of coral. In the event nothing much happened except that everybody mongered rumors like crazy.

      May this incident be similarly over-rated.

  16. Crying is not appropriate for me now, so I will laugh.

    The young man behind the wheel is close to the likes of Brett Kimberline (sp?) and Obama’s good friend Bill Ayer’s. I hope he fries.

    1. I’m just curious to see if he was, as first reported, supposed to be on medication for psychoses. If so, was he just plain bug-nuts crazy who happened to fixate NSDAP instead of USSR or Little Green Men from Mars (like the kid in AZ was).

          1. The Gates of Vienna link that someone posted elsewhere in these comments has a video that that site says suggests that his car was hit with a bat before the driver accelerated. Someone else provided a link to Gates that suggests the acceleration happened first, but unfortunately the second video was then pulled.

            So it appears to be up in the air at the moment. Hopefully we’ll know more before long.

        2. Remember Glenn Reynolds getting inquisitioned for suggesting that people in cars being threatened by rioters have no duty to stop? While I am sure Virginia is not among the states which have enacted laws asserting a driver’s right to proceed this might provide an interesting test case.

          The MSM, of course, having set their narrative, will not revise the story to accommodate inconvenient facts.

          I am concerned that the MSM, by whitewashing the antifa’s contribution to the disorder are encouraging their sense of immunity to ordinary standards. #AntifaPrivilege.

            1. There seems some doubt about whether he was seeking to escape the mob or to attack it, but we can be confident that, when all this has been thoroughly investigated, the MSM will stick by its narrative.

        3. amazing how fast a video of evidence gets taken down, no?
          I’ve also seen that folks claim the guy pulled from the car is not the guy being bandied about as the driver. and again video proof has been claimed.

        4. I read that early on, and then the info vanished. In which case, a panicked kid panicked and … If the media suddenly go silent, we’ll know that was probably the case. (Like they are not covering the guy who killed his two roommates because they wouldn’t covert to his version of Islam.)

    2. Don’t bet on it. It’s possible he may walk away scott-free, depending on how good of a lawyer he gets.

      1. If his intent was political, rather than survival, I hope he fries. I spoke hastily. If there proves reasonable cause to think he acted fearing for his life, I may have to admit to saying things in the heat of the moment that I should not have said.

        1. There was a mention from someone in Charlottesville that he claims he was being chased by people with baseball bats. If true, he’s got justification for his actions, regardless of his ethnic-racial prejudices.

          1. Well – he clearly should have honked more before plowing into folks if he was trying to escape from a mob with bats. On the other hand, he did quite well in terms of getting away by reversing through them (after plowing into the mob), so that would probably have been a better option. Bottom line – I expect he will be convicted of something or found mentally ill.

  17. All I can say is that I hope things don’t escalate drastically. May cooler heads prevail.

    1. To erase history, one must first know what history is. That there have long been outcries at Dixie and not Bonnie Blue Flag says a great deal about what they don’t know about history.

      1. Which helps explain why people get upset over the Confederate Battle Jack, but ignore the 1st National flag of the Confederacy. They have no idea what the other flag is.

        1. There’s a pickup truck around here with a Stars and Bars (not the Battle Jack) bumper sticker. Amuses me, because the folks who would be upset by it wouldn’t recognize it.

          Similarly, saw a story recently about a Tiananmen Square story getting through the Chinese censors because the censors didn’t know enough about the incident to recognize what was being referred to.

          2. I hadn’t heard about Tiananmen Square getting through. Last I had heard, Chinese state news was still blacking out the screen during those broadcasts.

        2. The Bonnie Blue was a five pointed white star on a dark blue background.
          It symbolized secession.

          The battle flag was (generally, the Confederacy was not big on standardization) square.
          The naval Jack was rectangular, but had different proportions.
          The standardized 3×5 ratio was commissioned after the ACW to honor those who died fighting for the losing side. Its creation during Reconstruction was a rather important symbolic moment of healing, and was a very graceful gesture from the victors. Its proper name is the Confederate Memorial Flag. (Which, ironically, nobody seems to remember.)

          Which leads to the bizarre state of things where I could actively support secession or a government hostile to the US, and nobody would bat an eyelash. But if I were to honor my ancestors in a fully appropriate way, I would somehow be a hate filled bigot.

  19. I don’t know how long it will be, but I wonder if, when it get’s out of hand, the UN will step in, promising ‘peace and security.’
    Climactic times, y’all.

        1. Got that right. Armed, blue-helmeted, non-Americans engaging in any act of violence or force against Americans are clearly invaders and we don’t need to wait for Congress to give permission for the militia to engage the enemy.

                1. 30-06, .38 Special, and .40 Super here…stupid 1911 wants to throw wildcat Super brass into some trans-dimensional portal to vanish.

  20. “nobody knows nothing.”

    More likely, them what does know ain’t talking.

    The MSM is providing its usual close air support for Left-wing rioters, and I am very curious about the reports of stand-down orders being issued to the police.

    As some have noted, there seems very little cause for a DoJ investigation into the events, although the management by the local ans state (Democrat management, both) authorities as to prep and procedure certainly seems in order. Did they not know of the likelihood of counter protesters? Did they not monitor social media? Inquiring minds want inquiries made.

    1. I suspect the role of the DOJ and the FBI is to ratify the message on every station that this is the work of right wing fascists and to justify further crackdowns without dealing with Antifa and BLM and who had the legal permit, who attacked first and the deliberate police decision to direct the permit holders to leave through the mob of counter protesters. This looks a lot like political authorities fostered the environment for a riot.

  21. A point I’ve seen elsewhere. The other people in the world blowing up history and monuments is ISIS, or whatever the preferred term is today. And many of the people wanting to tear down Confederate memorials would condemn ISIS if they weren’t fearful of muslim violence…

  22. I have long recognized that the Nazis and the Communists were both totalitarian, and that Hitler and Stalin, while enemies, were not polar opposites on the political spectrum. It had not occurred to me until it was pointed out that their modern descendants, the skinheads on the one hand and the Antifas on the other, were also more alike than different. The “right wing” versus the “left wing” is a false dichotomy.
    The Constitution declares the right to peaceable assembly to be protected. Shouting down those who say something disliked, or shutting them down with threats of violence, is an assault on their civil rights, and anyone who advocates or defends it loses my respect. *My* tribe’s history has experience with mob violence, and it’s evil no matter who incites it.
    The civil authorities, in this country, are elected in part to preserve public order and protect the rights of everyone, white, black, brown, yellow, red, green, or purple. If they forget this, it is high time they were turned out of office and replaced by those who do remember it.

    1. Sure. Totalitarians want total control over your life, liberty, and property. The label they stick on them makes no difference, except to the ideologues in charge of the dogmatic purity of the particular cult. This is why Stalin was best buddies with Hitler until the latter decided to repeat Bonaparte’s folly.

    2. Racial supremacy is just another form of collectivist thinking, just like the classist thinking that characterizes Marxism. Blaming your problems on the “mud people” is no different than blaming them on the “1%”. Nazis are not and never have been right-wing, they are members of the Left in good standing.

  23. Elements of the left are being useful this time around, provided that you know where to look. The Virginia ACLU had a comment in its Twitter feed that stated that the cops weren’t going to intervene until they were ordered to do so. And it’s been noted that the SPLC, which under ordinary circumstances I would consider less than pond scum, has noted that the leader of the “Unite the Right” organization involved in the protest was a member of Occupy right up until early 2016. These are useful because comments like this from lefty organizations are harder for those on the left to knee-jerk dismiss.

    If we had a news media that actually did its job, then they’d have already run these interesting factoids down and figured out what was going on.

    But alas…

  24. LMAO.

    Between alt-right and ‘antifa,’ media still manages to be worse
    By Charles Hurt
    CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA — Eight years after it was proved — even more convincingly than the moon landing — that a black man can get elected president of the United States of America, we still have slow learners stuck in the past.

    It’s the “Obliterate History Neanderthals” versus the “I’m White and I’m Proud Brass Knuckle Draggers.” Truly, dumb and dumber — and not always in that order.

    The only people dumber than the Neanderthals and Brass Knuckle Draggers are the insufferably tedious referees known as the Stupid Media who shape the country as a barking mad carnival, whipping up hysteria for every armed showdown.

    [SNIP]

    The real question is why the Stupid Media gives these loudmouth malcontents so much free airtime.

    The Neanderthals have worked so hard in President Obama’s “postracial” America to expand the meaning of “racism” so as to include so many stupid and innocuous things that it is hard to keep track of what exactly is “racist” anymore.

    You’re a cop? Racist. A black cop? A racist racist. You’re white? Lord, help you.

    After the mayhem Saturday, the Stupid Media descended upon the mother of James Alex Fields and cornered her in her garage for one of the most bizarre — though strangely illuminating — press conferences in Stupid Media history.

    “I just knew he was going to a rally,” she explained. “I mean, I try to stay out of his political views.”

    Stupid Media tells her it was a Brass Knuckle Dragger rally.

    “I thought it had something to do with Trump,” she replied, hesitantly. “Trump’s not a white supremacist.”

    Trying to be helpful, the mother of James Alex Fields then offers: “I just know there was — he did mention it was ‘Albright.’”

    “Alt-right,” a member of the Stupid Media corrects her, though it is not clear that the Stupid Media was present when James Alex Fields told his mother about the “Albright rally” he was attending.

    She confirms for the Stupid Media: “Albright.” Stupid Media strikes back again: “No, alt-right. It’s like alternative right.”

    Again, not clear if Stupid Media was present when James Alex Fields discussed his plans to attend this Albright conference.

    Who knew Madeleine Albright was a “white nationalist”?

    [SNIP]

    In her defense, the mother of James Alex Fields did not appear exactly proud of her offspring’s behavior, even before Saturday’s madness.

    “I don’t really get too involved,” she explained. “I moved him out to his own apartment.”

    Good news here is that there is life after grown children living in your basement. Bad news is you may still be paying for them.

    Desperate to fetch some good from the awkward situation with hungry buzzards staring into her garage, she offers: “I’m watching his cat.”

      1. Hah! As if you know who your ancestors might be. You seem pretty much cure Pro-Magnon to me.

        1. Heh. I’m sure the Neanderthals loved to cure the Cro-Magnon, pure or otherwise. Preferably over a hickory smoke fire.

    1. The link mentioned Bellamy getting in trouble because of various racist and sexist things he’s said in tweets and on-line posts. According to the SPLC link on Kessler (i.e. the guy heading “Unite the Right”), Kessler is responsible for some of those tweets and posts coming to light. So it appears that there’s some personal history between these two.

  26. Depending on what actually happened and why, this could very well be the fuse that heats the cold civil war. And if you’re rubbing your hands, don’t be. Go read about the type of civil war where the populations are thoroughly emulsified. It’s not pretty, it doesn’t end sometimes for centuries, and it takes civilization down three levels, at least.

    I have been saying this for years. The fools who relish the idea of Civil War 2 (or as they sometimes style it a “second American revolution”) are just…

    https://thewriterinblack.com/2014/06/21/second-american-revolution-i-hope-not/

    1. Yes, any second American Revolution or Civil War would be very ugly.

      However, General John Stark had it right, even though most people only see or pay attention to the first clause of his toast.

      “Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils.”

      1. Armed revolt isn’t plan A, nor plan B, nor even plan Q. It’s the GoTH plan. It’s where even the extreme ugliness, the horror, the high probability that the end result will be more “The Terror” followed by a Napoleon than anything resembling the founding of the US (and that’s even leaving aside what the rest of the world will do to us once we’re well and truly involved in getting stuck in with each other), actually looks like the best available option.

        1. I’ll kill to save my own life, or the lives of my friends and family; but revolution is out of the question for a number of reasons. Those being: there is no plan on how to conduct one, the goal of one is too nebulous, there is no organized leadership, and the entire logistics for one is non-existent. I certainly don’t want to lead it because it’s a full time job, I don’t have 6 months to spend working on the goals and plans, then trying to sell it to potential leaders around the country, and I don’t trust any sources willing to even bankroll the venture. Hell, that’s the reason why I voted for DJT in the first place! (And quite possibly the reason so many other people did too.)

  27. I am very suspicious of the LEOrg lack of response. Police have to obey orders, and those come from (usually, when you follow the chain) elected officials. This frequently works quite well.
    Until it doesn’t.
    I am attempting ti numerologize under-fuher Soros name. If I don’t get 666, I’ll spend two bucks and enter the result in Cash 3.

  29. Power Line’s Scott Johnson notes this Pro Publica report:

    Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville
    State police and National Guardsmen watched passively for hours as self-proclaimed Nazis engaged in street battles with counter-protesters. ProPublica reporter A.C. Thompson was on the scene and reports that the authorities turned the streets of the city over to groups of militiamen armed with assault rifles.

    CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — There was nothing haphazard about the violence that erupted today in this bucolic town in Virginia’s heartland. At about 10 a.m. today, at one of countless such confrontations, an angry mob of white supremacists formed a battle line across from a group of counter-protesters, many of them older and gray-haired, who had gathered near a church parking lot. On command from their leader, the young men charged and pummeled their ideological foes with abandon. One woman was hurled to the pavement, and the blood from her bruised head was instantly visible.

    Standing nearby, an assortment of Virginia State Police troopers and Charlottesville police wearing protective gear watched silently from behind an array of metal barricades — and did nothing.

    [SNIP]

    By … shortly before 11 a.m., what had started hours earlier with some shoving and a few punches had evolved into a series of wild melees as people attacked one another with fists, feet, and the improvised weapons they’d brought with them to the park. White supremacists and anti-racists began blasting each other with thick orange streams of pepper spray.

    The police did little to stop the bloodshed. Several times, a group of assault-rifle-toting militia members from New York State, wearing body armor and desert camo, played a more active role in breaking up fights.

    Shortly before noon, authorities shut down the rally and the related demonstrations and marched the white supremacists out of the park and into the streets.

    [SNIP]

    In the weeks leading up to the protest, city and state officials put together a detailed plan for the rally, mobilizing 1,000 first responders, including 300 state police troopers and members of the National Guard. Judging from how events unfolded today, it appears that the strategy was to avoid direct confrontations with the protesters.

    Miriam Krinsky, a former federal prosecutor who has worked on police reform efforts in Los Angeles, said it was too early to assess the law enforcement response in Charlottesville.

    But she said a strategy of disengagement generally works to embolden unruly crowds.

    “If things start to escalate and there’s no response, it can very quickly get out of control,” she said. “Individuals can and will get hurt.”

    But an overly forceful response, she said, can also make the situation worse. Krinsky said attempts to seize weapons might have led to more clashes between police and protesters. “Trying to take things away from people is unlikely to be a calming influence,” she told ProPublica.

    A good strategy, she said, is to make clashes less likely by separating the two sides physically, with officers forming a barrier between them. “Create a human barrier so the flash points are reduced as quickly as possible,” she said.
    [END]

    Given that this is presented as part of an ongoing series, “covering the rise in hate crimes in America as part of our Documenting Hate project” any suspicions you might have of Pro Publica being a Left-wing journolism project ought be assuaged.

    Two things jump out: they identify the militia as being from NY, rather than PA as the WaPo did. They do> credit the militia with interposing themselves between the two groups of protesters to reduce conflict.

    1. Thus giving the lie to Moron’s statement that the cops acted at the proper time. The moment someone breaks out the brass knuckles, you come down on them like a ton of bricks.

  30. I don’t have time to go through all the comments, and I may not have time to keep up with all the responses this comment may engender, but I just had to respond to this part of your post:

    “This idiotic changing of names, removing of statues and erasing people from history is NOT the work of a free society. It is wholly Stalinist and is letting the rest of the world know you by your fruits as it were. ”

    Do you even realize that you’ve just called the US Marines Stalinists?

    In case you’ve forgotten, let me remind you: it was US Marines who pulled down Saddam Hussein’s statue in Bagdad.

    How dare they, right?

    1. Are you okay? Mentally? The US Marines are not altering the history OF THE US. They are altering the history of an invaded country.
      Unless you’re stupid or malicious, I don’t see how this could have evaded you.

      1. “The US Marines are not altering the history OF THE US. ”

        Oh, wait. So it’s only Stalinism if somebody takes down a statue in this country? It’s okay to take down statues if they’re in some other country?

        Uh-huh.

        Nobody is “altering history”, Sarah. Only taking down statues of people WHO LOST WARS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

        1. Unless you’re saying that the South is occupied territory, STILL and therefore the North can destroy THEIR history without THEIR consent, you’re full of shit.
          Also, when did I give you permission to use my first name?

          1. “Unless you’re saying that the South is occupied territory, STILL and therefore the North can destroy THEIR history without THEIR consent, you’re full of shit.”

            LOL.

            The Confederacy was fought against the United States of America. That’s kind of the point of seceding, you know.

            They lost.

            People who lose wars don’t deserve to have commemorative statues in the countries they fought against.

            And you didn’t answer my question, so I’ll repeat it: So it’s only Stalinism if somebody takes down a statue in this country? It’s okay to take down statues if they’re in some other country?

            Seriously?

            1. “People who lose wars don’t deserve to have commemorative statues in the countries they fought against.”

              I think it’s a little more complicated than that. For example, there are in this country many statues of American Indian leaders who fought against the United States….and appropriately so, I would rgue.

              1. There is a statue of Tecumseh (well, really Delaware Indian Chief Tamanend, but ther’s a backstory there) in Tecumseh Court where the midshipman of the US Naval Academy stand formation every day. Every midshipman walks (or marches) by it several times a day. Reaching up and rubbing his nose is frequntly done before taking major exams.

          2. Would now be a bad time to point out that most of the locals were completely down with the statue-pulling? And that Saddam Hussein was a considerably worse person than anyone on the Confederate side who has a statue?

            1. Also, seriously, you invade a country, you pull down their statues. it’s part of the psychological work after conquest.
              BUT this is 100 years later, and after reconciliation, and was a CIVIL war not an invasion as such.

            2. “Would now be a bad time to point out that most of the locals were completely down with the statue-pulling?”

              Right. Sarah is forgetting to ask the actual residents of that town what THEY wanted to do about that statue. Hmmm.

              “And that Saddam Hussein was a considerably worse person than anyone on the Confederate side who has a statue?”

              Are you sure about that? Saddam was a nasty guy — but slavery was mighty nasty too. But in any case, it isn’t a competition. Unless we’re going to decide who’s Stalinist for taking down a statue by ranking degrees of nastiness?

              1. Now is an even better time to point out, that all Confederate soldiers are. by law, United States veterans, and it is against Federal Law to remove a memorial or statue to ANY US Veteran. . .

                1. Interesting, I did not know that. It makes sense; after all, if the secession was illegal and void then those soldiers obviously served under a part of the USA. To treat them as not US veterans would mean acknowledging that the CSA was a separate country and the war was an invasion rather than the putting down of a rebellion.
                  The surprising part is that someone actually went through this logic rather than decide to hold two contradictory opinions at the same time.

              2. “Right. Sarah is forgetting to ask the actual residents of that town what THEY wanted to do about that statue. Hmmm.”

                You mean SOME of the locals. Because if most of the locals wanted the statue removed, they could have done so via legal means. Instead, the statue was vandalized and destroyed by a small number of militant individuals.

                “Are you sure about that? Saddam was a nasty guy — but slavery was mighty nasty too. But in any case, it isn’t a competition. Unless we’re going to decide who’s Stalinist for taking down a statue by ranking degrees of nastiness?”

                Actually, ranking nastiness does have utility, and only a fool would declare otherwise. For instance, the argument for why we dropped the atom bombs on Japan was that the available alternatives were more nasty. What, in itself, may be decried as a horrible act is suddenly given perspective because of where it ranked on the scale of nastiness.

                Slavery was an ill, but let’s not kid ourselves about the practice. It was (and in some parts of the world, still is) a common practice. On the sliding scale of nastiness it is most assuredly less bad than, say, gassing your own people to death. Saddam was far more immoral than most pro-slavery Confederates, even by today’s standards. And never mind that some Confederates were either opposed to slavery, but supported their home states anyway, or were trying to find ways out of slavery that wouldn’t collapse the South’s economy, which had become dependent on the practice (Lee was reputed by some to hold such views).

                Folks who try to equate the Confederacy with Saddam, or worse, the Nazis, are remarkably shortsighted. Yes, the Confederacy was wrong about slavery, but we have the benefit of hindsight and an economy in which slavery is economically inefficient anyway. We didn’t inherit such a practice from the previous generation. So it is easy for us to judge them harshly. In truth, their rebellion was folly, and poorly justified. But that does not mean we cannot, in the spirit of reconciliation, acknowledge their dead as our dead, their soldiers as our soldiers, and recognize them for their bravery, in spite of their foolish cause.

                Like it or not, they are a part of our history.

            3. Indeed, all the USMC did was help the locals who were trying to pull down the statue. The same effect would have been achieved by leaving the keys of that M88 in the ignition and looking the other way. The statue was still going to come down, and be dragged out of Firdos Square and through the streets of Baghdad by the people who actually suffered under its likeness.

              NOBODY was defending the statue. The statue was of a living despised dictator. Not a sobering reminder of a war a century and half gone,.

              1. “Indeed, all the USMC did was help the locals who were trying to pull down the statue.”

                Sure, and I don’t blame them for doing it. But by Sarah’s definition, they are Stalinists because they pulled it down.

                “NOBODY was defending the statue.”

                Are you sure about that? There are a good number of Iraqis right now who wish that Saddam was back. I was just looking at an article about that today.

                “The statue was of a living despised dictator. Not a sobering reminder of a war a century and half gone.”

                Those Confederate statues are of dead despised slave owners and traitors against the United States of America. They don’t deserve to be in public places of honor. If people want to look at them, let them be moved to museums where they belong.

                1. Didn’t see them in Fidos Square. Odd, that.

                  Nor did I see anyone actually alive during the Civil War arguing about taking down those statues.

                2. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, who ordered his men to salute the surrendered Confederate soldiers at Appomattox despite having multiple Confederate bullets in him, and William T. Sherman, who gave Joseph E. Johnston extremely generous surrender terms despite having torched southern Georgia and South Carolina, think that you’re a virtue-signaling whiner.

        2. The US reunited. If the people of that region cherish PARTS of that history, who are you to remove it?
          Also, btw, what do statues that were standing for a century, under a non authoritarian regime do now?
          And it’s not just the defeated confederates. There are rumbles to remove statues of the Founding Fathers, statues of prominent people of the past because they didn’t conform to today’s definition of good.
          If you don’t see that as Stalinist, I can’t help you and I recommend you take your infected Stalisnist asshole elsewhere. Thank you.

          1. “The US reunited. If the people of that region cherish PARTS of that history, who are you to remove it?”

            I live there, for one thing. I get just as many votes about those statues as anyone else. And we elected our government officials in part to make decisions like that.

            “Also, btw, what do statues that were standing for a century, under a non authoritarian regime do now?”

            They promulgate the message that the ideals of slavery and racism are something to be honored and emulated. But guess what — they aren’t.

            “If you don’t see that as Stalinist”

            Your words still paint those US Marines as Stalinist for taking down Saddam’s statue, Sarah.

            Are you sure you want to do that?

            1. Just to clarify — when I say “I live there”, I mean in the South, complete with Confederate statues. I don’t mean I live in Virginia, which I don’t.

              1. You may live in the South, but you apparently are neither Southerner nor Gentleman. Be polite to the lady, as she is a lady and our host.

            2. Sarah – Contrarius is trolling, contorting casually written words to alter intent. Bounce the twit for arguing absent Good Faith.

              1. “Sarah – Contrarius is trolling, contorting casually written words to alter intent. Bounce the twit for arguing absent Good Faith.”

                Wait — now you’re saying that Sarah doesn’t actually mean what she writes?

                Her sentence was very clear. She said that taking down statues is Stalinist. Did she actually not mean that?

                1. “…now you’re saying that Sarah doesn’t actually mean what she writes?”

                  No, I said that she does not mean what you write. You have taken a statement about intention and contorted it into a statement about actions.

                  Mr. Buckley’s argument about ‘whether you shove a little old lady in front of a bus or out of the way of a bus, you are still advocating shoving little old ladies around’ applies here.

              2. Hear, hear. Starting to read a history of the ACW. I have picked up bits and pieces through other readings. I am coming to despise SJW’s demanding the removal of all things “bad”. We experienced this recently in Canada where Langevin Block was renamed due to the person it was named after treated Aboriginal Canadians poorly. Based upon poorly understood history.

                1. “Based upon poorly understood history.”

                  Oh, but we understand the history of the Confederacy quite clearly, thanks.

                  Here’s just a few relevant bon mots for your entertainment. There are many similar quotes out there, but I don’t want to overwhelm Sarah’s blog unnecessarily.

                  — Jefferson Davis, 1860: “We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority.”

                  — Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy, 1861: “Its (the Confederacy’s) foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery… is his natural and normal condition.”

                  — John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, 1861: “… there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery….”

                  — Henry M. Rector, Governor of Arkansas, 1861: “The extension of slavery is the vital point of the whole controversy between the North and the South…”

                  1. Did I say that the Confederate leadership was correct? I was referring to a Canadian example. You obviously missed my statement about my lack of understanding of the ACW which I am trying to rectify. Besides most of the statues that have been removed have been of generals and soldiers. I do believe that the American Government in the past has said that they are American Veterans even though they fought on the opposite side of the Union. So therefore, the removal of their memorials is disrespectful to all former soldiers.

                    1. Nah, Contrarius just likes running his Marxist whore mouth, without really reading any comments. hell, his opening salvo said he wouldn’t read our comments.

                    3. “Did I say that the Confederate leadership was correct? I was referring to a Canadian example.”

                      Right. I’m not disagreeing with you — I’m just illustrating the fact that the Confederacy actually was about racism and slavery, because the folks who object to statue removal often deny that simple fact.

                      “So therefore, the removal of their memorials is disrespectful to all former soldiers.”

                      Nonsense. Most former soldiers were not traitors to the United States, nor defenders of slavery.

                    4. The war of Southern Secession was about much more than slavery, as evidenced by the many soldiers who fought bravely yet were not slave owners. Statements intended to whip up war fever do not constitute an appropriate example, any more than statements by those Southerners who opposed slavery but endorsed secession would prove the war was about Northern mercantilism.

                      The majority of people on both sides of that war deemed “Negroes” an inferior race, and Lincoln’s arguments against it were originally couched in terms of the harm done the slave-owner; ergo your logic makes him a racist and unworthy of any monuments. Further, there is a strong argument to be made that it was Lincoln’s War, as the South had every right to secede — a right nearly effectuated by the New England states during the War of 1812 (and where many provided aid and comfort to English troops.)

                      But the legitimacy of the past is not a topic to be addressed in this venue, and your raising it is long established grounds for denial of participation.

                    5. States most emphatically do not have the right to secede. The U.S. was founded not by the Constitution, but the Articles of Confederation, full title “Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of Newhampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.” A perpetual union canot be broken up. If you read first the Articles then the Constitution which made necessary organizational changes, you’ll note the writers of The Constitution made many changes, but they didn’t fuly supplant the Articles. Note that The Constitution spells out procedures for adding new states, spltting or merging existing states, disposal of minor properties that belong to the Federal government but not states, but nowhere in the document is a procedure for state to leave, voluntarily or involuntarily, the perpetual union into which they entered. The Civil War, War Between the States, or War of Northern Aggression, no matter which designation you prefer, settled the matter.

                    6. You may be right, but I believe the Articles of Confederation were superseded and replaced by the Constitution. Certainly the arguments against secession, whether in 1812 or 1860 did not invoke them, and in 1812 there remained many signers of the Declaration and the Constitution to make such argument.

                      Equally, several states in their affirmation of the Constitution reserved a right to secede, so presumably they did not deem the Articles’ assertions binding.

                      But the issue is undeniably moot now, although it will be entertaining to see how Calexit proceeds. It has been a long time, but as I recall only the Republic of Texas joined the Union while specifically reserving the right to withdraw, although California has the right to split itself into four states, a right which certain in its polity might mischievously demand be exercised.

                  2. Virtue-signaling, over a war over 150 years past. How impressive! Is that the best you’ve got? Lame. Troll level…. bless your pointy little head!

                    The US Army named its most fearsome attack helicopter “Apache”. That was not a hat-tip to wanting them as neighbors.

                  3. You are aware that there were very many in the north, even among those who fought for the union and wanted to end slavery, who thought of persons of color as lesser humans?

                    1. I know people like that today,but I don’t count them as friends. It truly is amzing what you can find out about people by keeping your mouth shut and listening. And,BTW, the most racist people I know are liberals.

                1. “yep. I think he needs bouncing.”

                  Not surprised that you think so. 😉

                  And I’m a “she”, thanks. 🙂

                    1. Dear Moron, You’re Contrarius, not Contraria. This means you’re male. If this doesn’t match whatever the hell you think you are, revise grammar and try again.

                    2. “What gives you the right to assume your gender? In a democracy shouldn’t that be decided by majority vote?”

                      LOL.

                      Nope. Remember, liberals believe in a strong right to privacy. People who call themselves conservatives are the ones who keep trying to control our private lives.

                    3. To the programmers of the Contrarius “AI”. I am sorry, but your program fails the Turing Test. You need more than a random word generator and a basic grammar engine.

                      Eliza did it better fifty years ago.

                    4. “liberals believe in a strong right to privacy”

                      So long as people publicly conform to the fashions of the times they are allowed to keep their actual thoughts to themselves, right? If those stupid Christian bakers had just complied with a request to apply their artistic skills to decorating an approved cake nothing would have happened to their businesses. James Damore could have continued working at Google if only he had tugged his forelock and kept his mouth shut. Democrat candidates for office can be Pro-Life so long as they bend the knee and publicly endorse abortion on demand.

                      The liberal Right To Privacy is a demand for public conformity in spite of private dissent, it is hypocrisy inflicted without public consent to the standards being imposed.

                    5. That’s funny, the government here in CA keeps telling me what i can and can’t have and do in my home and my car too….

                    6. Remember, liberals believe in a strong right to privacy. People who call themselves conservatives are the ones who keep trying to control our private lives.

                      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHH!!!

                      I’m sorry, you’re either a troll or an anencephalic mouth-breathing vegetable.

                      “Liberals” (aka commie progressives) want to control what people say and think, and punish ALL wrongthink.

                      Just ask Jordan Peterson. Or James Demore. Or Milo Yiannopolous. Or… or… or…

                      You fucking lackwit.

                    8. Also, contrarius, having determined that you’re not actually an adult, I’m going to punt you so the adults can talk. You go sit in the corner of your mom’s basement and fume at us in peace, okay. Later, you can have your milk and go to bed.

                    9. “I’m sorry, you’re either a troll or an anencephalic mouth-breathing vegetable.”

                      The two circumstances are not mutually exclusive. Embrace the power of and.

                      I do think you might apologise to the anencephalic mouth-breathing vegetable community.

                    13. Ah, the Marxist views on the Civil War! For some reason, I’ve seen them lately.
                      ‘
                      I have already mentioned the view that the South wasn’t really trying to secede, as witness their failure to try to take Washington DC.

                      I have subsequently run across a Marxist who asserts that they would have been allowed to secede if they hadn’t tried to take the territories with them.

                    15. “In language as in life, the male embraces the female.”

                      First Maggie Thatcher recorded quote I ever heard, did a lot to endear her to me.

                  2. Yet you do not deny trolling.

                    “He” is correct English grammar for a person whose sex is not identified, and has been for a millennium. You could look it up.

                    1. I think we should have a plebiscite to determine whether “Contrarius” is male or female on this board. After all, majority rules, right?

                      Until then, we should go by the grammatical structure. As Sarah pointed out “Contrarius” is grammatically masculine. The feminine would be “Contraria.”

                  3. Contrarius, you take a quote out of context, create a strawman argument–oh, Sarah MUST also be including the US Marines because she didn’t add addenda and quid pro quos–and then repeat your assertion over and over–deny it, Sarah, I dare you–and to what end? Will this somehow shed greater light on the subject? No. You add nothing to the conversation.

                  4. Well well well. No wonder I made such a mistake! There wasn’t a hint of ladylike behavior in all that. My mistake, indeed.

                    But I suspect, just slightly a bit, that maybe that was your intent. Play neuter until in check, then play the “girl” card when seriously confronted. Not a bad strategy, actually, but hardly one likely to win much respect.

                    My mistake indeed.

                    Why respect Southern military men? For the same reasons we respect Indians. They were about the only folks to seriously challenge the US Military and the USA, existentially, on our own turf. The British certainly were in that class, but they mostly left. The Southerers and the Indians are now -us-.

                    1. It didn’t play neuter. CONTRARIUS is a MALE word. If you call yourself “Male contrary” why be shocked people think you’re male?
                      But it’s of a par with the rest of its discourse. It knows neither logic nor grammar.

                    2. Wow. I don’t thjnk I’ve seen our esteemed hostess unload like this before. Didn’t someone recently post a warning about beware a calm steady person who finally loses it? I will state for the record that so far in these comments I agree with her completely.

                    3. Never anger a patient man. Or something to that effect. The result might not be immediate, might not be too visible, but is apt to be devastating.

                  5. Pixels are about as androgynous as you can get.

                    In posting it has always been that there no certain way of telling how you identify unless you inform us. Even then we can’t be certain, for some people choose to play roles when posting.

                    3. Oh? I don’t know so much from Latin, but I do know from Greek and it is much the same.

                      That is when someone hasn’t been named in a ‘boy named Sue’ manner.
                      😉

                    6. Revised and expanded:

                      It would be wrong for you to ignore their gender self-identification when it enables mockery of their pretensions.

                    7. I’m willing to accept that Drak self identifies as a dragon or Ox self identifies as a minotaur because they’re nice people and I LIKE them. But if someone if boorish and discourteous I’ll identify them as whatever I want to and they should count themselves lucky I don’t identify them as a reticulated ass.

                    8. I identify as Mythical, but nowadays simply showing up for work reliably can seem mythical. If some call me a minotaur, I do not argue. Kinda like it. But I make NO claims of being able to trace ancestry back to Asterion.

            3. I live there, for one thing.

              I’m curious, did you give yourself a high-five and slam a Mountain Dew for how “clever” that was?

              I get just as many votes about those statues as anyone else. And we elected our government officials in part to make decisions like that.

              You think history is flexible and can be altered if you round up a big enough gang to vote your way.

              It’s thinking like this that has led to the violence in the streets, you ass monkey. Reality is not subject to your personal feelings, no matter how often you whine and vote and vote and whine about it.

              They promulgate the message that the ideals of slavery and racism are something to be honored and emulated.

              Hey, guess what, Prince Myshkin? You are not the sole arbiter of meaning in the Universe!!!

              The Civil War had a large number of proximate causes, of which slavery was one, but only one. It only became “about” slavery — and I’m talking about what it meant to the people who actually fought the thing, on both sides, none of whom gave a flying fuck what your haughty dilettante’s opinion would eventually be — as the war dragged out. After about a year or so, sure, soldiers on both sides viewed it as turning on slavery.

              But Robert E. Lee, for instance, did not declare “I’mma keep them negroes in their place” as his reason for joining the Confederacy over the Union. He viewed his choice as a matter of where his first loyalty lay — to the united states, or to his particular state. And, being a man of his time, he chose Virginia, because the idea that the nation trumped the states that comprised it was, at that time, not the common idea at all.

              So a statue to him is not necessarily put up to “promulgate slavery and racism” at all. It could just as easily be to honor the idea that the union was originally voluntary. Or a tribute to a man who felt honor-bound to remain loyal to his state, even as he thought his state was making a mistake. Hell, it could be a remembrance of a good or a great man who was brought low by misapplying his ideas of honor.

              It could be a lot of things. But you are much too “smart” to be bothered by historical facts. You’ve got your straw man, and you a fucking well going to burn that fucker down no matter what hurty facts are brought up to counter your simple-minded flummery.

              But guess what — they aren’t.

              Yeah, yeah, you killed that straw man dead. Whoopee for you.

              Your words still paint those US Marines as Stalinist for taking down Saddam’s statue, Sarah.

              OK, I realize that you think you’re very, very smart, but this is idiotic.

              The marines tore down a statue a tyrant had erected to his own glory.

              The statues in question were erected to honor the losing side (or members thereof), NOT by totalitarian martinets who held power and wanted to honor themselves.

              AND YOU ARE DECLARING THAT YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THIS BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE.

              Are you certain you want to do that, Mr. Sophistry?

              1. “You think history is flexible and can be altered if you round up a big enough gang to vote your way.”

                Nope. Nobody is erasing or altering history. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, in many cases where these statues are being taken down, the intent is to move them to museums or Confederate cemeteries. The statues are simply being removed from their prominent places of honor, because the people they represent don’t deserve to be honored.

                “The Civil War had a large number of proximate causes”

                Both the president and vice-president of the Confederacy, as well as many other Confederate officials, quite clearly stated that it was about slavery. Do you wish to accuse them of lying?

                “as the war dragged out.”

                Look at those quotes again. They were made at the BEGINNING of the war, not the end. And they quite clearly state that the issue was **slavery** from the beginning.

                “The marines tore down a statue a tyrant had erected to his own glory.”

                Yup. And we’re tearing down statues of traitors and promoters of slavery that were erected to their glory.

                It’s long past time they were gone.

                1. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, in many cases where these statues are being taken down, the intent is to move them to museums or Confederate cemeteries.

                  If this were actually the case, the statues woudl be removed by government certified statue-removal specialists, directly on to truck beds.

                  They would not be pulled over – literally toppled – from their bases, like monuments to defeated tyrants.

            4. “They promulgate the message that the ideals of slavery and racism are something to be honored and emulated.”

              Odd, I perceive them as recognition that people can fight gallantly in an ignoble cause, and that victors need not grind the faces of losers into the mud.

              1. victors need not grind the faces of losers into the mud

                But leftists must. They not only have to “win” but they must completely crush and humiliate their enemies as well.

                Only great minds and large souls can be magnanimous in victory. Leftists lack both of those traits.

                  1. The Left intends to erase history, so they can repeat it. The goal of the Left has been Slavery for ~200 years. Instead of the old model Slavery, a small minority slaving for a large majority, they now intend for the large majority to be slaves for a small self-selecting minority, the Party leadership.

                    Socialism is just Slavery regurgitated.

                    1. “Socialism is just Slavery regurgitated.” True, and good point. Old-tyme slavers were pikers in comparison.

                2. I remember a time in America when good sportsmanship was celebrated. As the Left has insinuated itself into positions of cultural authority I cannot help but observe that trash-talking, slam-dunks, end-zone dances and standing at the plate admiring home runs has increasingly become the norm.

                  I do not know whether such displays are a cause of that cultural dominance, an effect, or merely a corollary.

        3. The statues were not erected prior to the war. Therefore they were not erected by the losing side.

          As to whether an act is Stalinist, it hangs upon the purpose underlying the act. Done to erase History is Stalinist. Done to represent a change in regime is not.

          1. “The statues were not erected prior to the war. Therefore they were not erected by the losing side.”

            Sure they were. Mostly in the South, by Southerners — often, for example, by organizations like Sons of the Confederacy and similar.

            “As to whether an act is Stalinist, it hangs upon the purpose underlying the act. Done to erase History is Stalinist. Done to represent a change in regime is not.”

            Yes, good point.

            Note that in many of these cases where statues are coming down, the intent is to move them to museums or Confederate cemeteries. The history is not being erased at all.

            1. “Sure they were. Mostly in the South, by Southerners — often, for example, by organizations like Sons of the Confederacy and similar.”

              All actions and groups undertaken under the beneficent hand of the governments installed by the victorious side — not by the losing regimes. Are we to be less generous now, 150 years after the conflict? My, what pettiness you demand.

              1. “All actions and groups undertaken under the beneficent hand of the governments installed by the victorious side — not by the losing regimes. Are we to be less generous now, 150 years after the conflict? My, what pettiness you demand.”

                After 150 years, it’s time to stop honoring traitors and defenders of slavery.

                1. After 150 years, it’s time to stop honoring traitors and defenders of slavery.
                  So by those lights I should choose not to honour Louis Riel and William Lyon MacKenzie. Knowing history and relearning history those two were by your definitions traitors to the PTB. Both men’s influence shaped Canada and helped it become the country it is today. So no statues, no memorials. Got it.

                  1. Paladin3001, per the logic of Contrarius, that would merely be the start. My, what a virtuous soul this Contrarius is. I’m certain there is not a single BadThought in his* mind. I am sure that all of his* heroes are equally unsullied by the complex reality that mere humans inhabit.

                    *-ius is masculine.

                  2. And I am also certain that he* would be a paragon of modern virtue no matter the century. Because he* is just that awesome. Why, oh why was he* not born in an earlier age so that he* could have jump started the abolitionist movement that much earlier. He* could have taught our benighted ancestors so much. Sigh.

                    1. Well, if he wants to do some anti-slavery work, I’ll spring for a ticket to Tehran. They still have slavery in the Islamic world, by LAW, today.

                3. “After 150 years, it’s time to stop honoring traitors and defenders of slavery.”

                  Why? What is magical about 150 years? Why not 25 years, or 250? What’s the rush? Those men fought bravely for a bad cause — to recognize their gallantry is not to endorse their reasons.

                4. so George Washington, all the signatories of the Declaration etc. are not to be honored either? Traitors all from the perspective of many at the time, and some time afterwards. Many also defended slavery.

                  1. yeahhhh and those here who… remember my family history will understand why that idea chafes me raw.

                    1. sorta like when I get accused of being familially responsible for slavery (that white privilege thing) when all my relatives were for the most part outside North America until the end of the war, and those that were not were the few French Canadians in the background. Truth to tell, using the familial responsibility rules, the typical black person in the US is more responsible for slavery than anyone I am related to, because the slavers bought their slaves from other Africans fighting amongst themselves and sold them on. My folk were scratching out a living at the lower end of things.

                  2. For some reason I am now hearing the following in my head:

                    Dickinson: Is that all England means to you, sir? Is that all the affection and pride you can muster for the nation that bore you — for the noblest, most civilized nation on the face of this planet? Would you have us forsake Hasting and Magna Carta, Strongbow ans Lionhearted, Drake and Marlborough, Tudors, Stuarts, and Plantagenets? For what, sir? Tell me for what? For you?

                    Some men are patriots, like General Washington — some are anarchists, like Mr. Paine — some even are internationalists, like Dr. Franklin. But you, sir, you are merely an a-gi-ta-tor, disturbing the peace, creating disorder, endangering the public welfare — and for what? Your petty little personal complaints. Your taxes are too high. Well sir, so are mine. Come, come, Mr. Adams, if you have grievances — and I’m sure you have — our present system must provide a gentler means of redressing them short of — revolution!! That’s what he wants — nothing less will satisfy him! Violence! Rebellion! Treason! Now, Mr. Adams, are these the acts of Englishmen?

                    John: Not Englishmen, Dickinson — Americans.

        4. You know, the statue was being pulled down by the locals who celebrated receiving help from the tank crew. I know you’re particularly dense, but it is in no way close to being the same thing.
          go troll other waters

      2. Stupid … Malicious. Six of one, half dozen of the other, I am thinking. Or someone unable to distinguish between pulling down the self-glorifying statue of the dictator of a conquered country and statues erected by the citizens of a once-divided country as a gesture of honor and reconciliation toward the other side.
        Contrarious is lamentably ignorant of history. Probably a recent student or graduate of one of our finer public schools.

        1. … is lamentably ignorant of history. Probably a recent student or graduate of one of our finer public schools.

          Well we do know that many of the radicals of the 1960s entered academia and done their level best to take control of pedagogy and scope and sequence.

          In our great state of NC it had been suggested that American History before the late 1800s did not need to be covered at the High School level. When this was first challenged it was argued that the history prior to that was adequately covered in earlier grades (which would be elementary). The challenge intensified and the idea was discarded.

    2. Are you saying that the SJW’s are an invading/liberating (take your pick) military force, symbolically estalishing the overview of the current enemy leader by removing the current enemy leader’s statue?

      Cool. Can we treat them like one then?

      2. “Are you saying that the SJW’s are an invading/liberating (take your pick) military force”

        Nope. But you already knew that. 😉

          1. “So you admit you were engaging in a false equivalence fallacy.”

            Nope. But you already knew that too.

            Again, Sarah’s statement was very clear. She quite clearly and confidently stated that taking down statues was Stalinist.

            Did she not actually mean that?

            1. Nope.

              Aw, you’re back to self delusion. And you were doing so well, too.

              Sarah, Res and Paladin3001 have pegged it. “Contrarius” is a troll, and a particularly boring one as well. Over-literal interpretations that ignore context. Sticks with that initial erroneous interpretation despite having the relevant context showing it as erroneous pointed out repeatedly. About a 2 on a 10 point scale, I’d say. No real entertainment value.

              1. “Aw, you’re back to self delusion. And you were doing so well, too.”

                Sorry, twb — but pointing out the logical problems with Sarah’s claim is not self-delusion. But you knew that too.

    3. That fact that Cammy (he of unhappy memory) has leapt on this dumbass comment is . . . curious.

    4. I am trying to wrap my head around the concept. Alexander Hamilton as a Stalinist. Didn’t he, his fellow classmates at Kings College and some others tear down the statue of George III and send off the metal to be used to make bullets to fire at the King’s own troops?

      Because tearing down statues is a tactic of the Stalinist, it does not make everyone who tears down a statue a Stalinist.

      1. Right. Also, they were staging a revolution. Is Contrarius meaning to imply that the SJWs are also staging a revolution?
        And here I thought it wouldn’t come to shooting.

        1. (Grin)

          The Left -really- should not do that revolution thing. The last one went rather badly for them.

          Oh, please comrade Fox! Dont throw us in -that- there insurrection briar patch! Oh no!

          I think someone above forgot which political party started the last insurrection, and which party was formed as the Abolitionist party.

        2. I am still betting that by and far the large majority of the people in this nation have no real desire for radicalization of any extreme, be it Antifa or White Supremacy. They want to live their lives with a minimum of interference. The trouble will really start when they get angry enough to fight.

        3. Whether the “SJWs are also staging a revolution” or not, I find them pretty revolting – about on par with my reaction to these neo-Nazi losers. To quote The Bard, “A plague on both their houses.”

        4. I am AMAZED that you have not cancelled Confusedtarious commenting privilege. You must be in an exceptionally good humor!

            1. Now she’s busy commenting at Cameltoe’s blog. She’s been raging on at Lela Buis for days and days, too. Same idiotic troll logic and “LOL!” bullshit. Typical DemocRat voter, basically. No clue and no notion she might need one.

              Cameltoe devoted a whole post to this idiocy of hers. He’s flat desperate for any kind of Puppy-related news to gas off about.

              1. If this is what passes for rationality and logic, let alone grammar around teh left, no wonder they give Hugos to the crap they give Hugos to. They’re all like “it has words and everything.”

    7. The US Marines did not pull down the statue of Saddam Hussein. That was carried on a live feed, and we watched it to see how they did it. My memory is hazy, and I’m not sure if there was a US flag flying atop it that an unidentified member of US troops changed with the Iraqi flag, but the whole point was for the Iraqis to pull down the statue, and they did. US troops were present, but they were along the edges, IIRC. And frankly I don’t know if they were Army or Marines.

      1. Ahh, but if Contrarius were still speaking, he/she/it would want you to justify the moon ferrets now.

        1. And like the other white supremacist trolls we get from File ??? and other places, would probably be very boring if I started talking about moon rabbits.

  31. I will note at this time that Sarah is being denounced in all the Usual Places for having the opinion she sets out in the post here. The Camel particularly is clutching his pearls as hard as he can.

    That was the purpose of the riot. To give the Lefties something to get worked up about.

    It is becoming clear this riot was a put-up job. The cops did nothing for hours, while people were getting pepper sprayed and fire-bombed. There’s a great picture out there of a guy in a mask shooting fire out of a spray can at some other guy in a mask. Which side started what? Who cares? The cops started it when they let these assholes loose downtown. They could have controlled the situation, they deliberately did not.

    There are no “sides” when the commies show up to rumble with the Nazis. You just sit back with your popcorn and pray for an asteroid to wipe them all out at one stroke.

    1. There are no “sides” when the commies show up to rumble with the Nazis. You just sit back with your popcorn and pray for a time displaced Roman Legion, Mongol Horde, or a bunch of space alien werewolves to wipe them all out at one stroke.
      FIFY.

      3. a time displaced Roman Legion, Mongol Horde, or a bunch of space alien werewolves

        Hell, Kitai could probably take care of ’em on her own.

  34. And no, to whom it may concern, a region not wanting their past or their regional heroes erased to appease a vocal minority does NOT make them white supremacists. This idiotic changing of names, removing of statues and erasing people from history is NOT the work of a free society.

    Odd thing… this is one of the things I LIKE about down here. (…basically El Paso, although living further away is cheaper even with gas)

    The streets that have “Mexican” names? That’s because somebody with that freaking name was worth naming a street for. Not because someone wanted to “signal” how awesome they are, but just because that’s what Dude’s name was. Closest to Signaling is the stuff heading on to base, and that is a Duh.

    I haven’t spotted an obvious….well, like when they take Oak Street in the middle of Pine, Juniper and Maple and rename it “Martin Luther King.” All that says is “Avoid this, activists out your ears, probably dangerous.”

    1. That is because it is much easier to honor group victimization than individual achievement. Further, if we honor individual achievement, individuals overcoming adverse circumstances, won’t that make people who haven’t achieved anything, who blame their failure on a hostile culture, feel bad?

    2. “when they take Oak Street in the middle of Pine, Juniper and Maple and rename it ‘Martin Luther King.’ All that says is ‘Avoid this, activists out your ears, probably dangerous.'”

      I’ve heard that one of the most dangerous places to be in any major city is at the intersection of Martin Luther King Boulevard and Rosa Parks Avenue.

  35. And you know damn well they’re coming for Jefferson and Washington next.

    *growl*
    Jefferson pisses me off the most, because they declare he had kids with a slave lady…even though the then-current rumors, circumstantial evidence, etc suggests his brother’s son as the “male offspring of male ancestor” that provided the DNA evidence.

    Not agreeing the attack would be valid, but it is an unfair attack.

  36. From a Washington Examiner editorial:

    A government failure in Charlottesville
    [SNIP]
    Saturday’s events represent a serious failure of government. Neither the death of Heyer nor the general mayhem were inevitable. They could have been prevented if authorities there had confronted the situation sensibly.

    The first failing was that of Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer, and the police in failing to separate the Nazis from the counter-protesters who showed up to meet them.

    Ahead of the event, the Washington Examiner’s Tom Rogan warned against the city’s attempt to relocate the Nazis from their desired place of protest. He pointed out that the more sensible course would be to allow them to protest in Emancipation Park as a way to contain them and keep the counter-protestors away from them.

    The authorities instead chose to allow the warring factions to intermingle, with predictable results. Charlottesville became a small war zone. Making matters much worse, the police were apparently ordered to stand by as the various factions beat each other bloody.

    Speaking to the New York Times, Gov. McAuliffe offered several pathetic and nonsensical excuses. First, he claimed the Nazis “had better equipment than our State Police had,” which they did not. Second, McAuliffe claimed the police chose not to stop the violence because “it was a volatile situation.” But that is exactly the sort of situation where police should intervene, given that protection of citizens is the main reason police forces exist. Finally, in a stunning denial of reality, McAuliffe asserted that “from our plan, to ensure the safety of our citizens and property, it went extremely well.”

    Still, this wasn’t the only government failing in Charlottesville. The second failing was epitomized by what happened on Sunday, when Nazi organizer Jason Kessler attempted to give a press conference. Once again, the police failed to separate Kessler from counter-protesters, and he was punched in the face. His attacker, Jeff Winder, justified his actions, staying, “Jason Kessler has been bringing hate to our town for months and has been endangering the lives of people of color and endangering other lives in my community. Free speech does not protect hate speech.”

    Rather than condemn Winder’s violence as an assault on democracy and a violation of Kessler’s civil rights, McAuliffe and Mayor Signer tried to justify it. Beyond the perfectly appropriate expression of abhorrence at the Nazi protesters, they embraced anti-free speech rhetoric, and did so well before any violence had begun.

    McAuliffe argued, “To the white supremacists and the neo-Nazis who came to our state yesterday, there is no place for you here.” Speaking with Black Lives Matter activist Deray Mckesson, McAuliffe doubled down. “There’s no place for them in this country. I think it’s important that every elected official stand up, call it what it is. We will not tolerate white supremacy, we will not tolerate these Nazi groups.”

    Similarly, Signer had already declared Friday night’s peaceful protests as “tantamount to terrorism,” adding that “we have to turn the corner on the mainstreaming of this kind of language and thought in our country.”

    [SNIP]

    Nazism is a despicable ideology that America and her allies crushed at the cost of millions of lives. But beyond unlawful violence (which, as Justice Harlan would have said, is conduct, not speech), or the deliberate incitement of imminent violence that is likely to occur (Brandenburg v. Ohio), Nazis have the right to speak their minds in America. Those counterprotesters carrying banners declaring “no free speech for fascists” are, then, making an argument that has been clearly rejected by the Supreme Court.

    Free speech is a feature of the Allied victory over Nazism, not a bug. It also means that those who showed up to protest against white supremecists in Charlottesville have the right to do so.

    But McAuliffe and Signer failed in their responsibility to defend Heather Heyer and Jason Kessler from violence and to preserve freedom of speech. They seem to want to camouflage their failures with ringing denunciations of white supremacists. Disgust with those white supremacists should, however, be a given in a liberal democratic society. It doesn’t exculpate incompetent government leaders when they fail in their pre-eminent duty to keep citizens safe

    1. look, its a politician who needs a couple things explained to him by the Supreme Court, apparently. (and Winder, too…)

  37. Sorry I missed the false equivalency beat down.

    That’s twice recently that there have been commenters that have had serious problems with logic. Two different people? Or the same person with different nics?

  38. Missed this today (or yesterday) due to: sleep / travel / schedule adjustment / sleep / and visiting folks I see maybe once a year. I appreciate the welcome and generosity, I am wondering if they have a scheme going to get the minotaur inebreh. inebriu…inubre… snockered. Ox not want head hurt.

  39. > The problem is that the other side has a near-psychotic disregard for everyone’s else lives and can build bombs.
    No, the big problem is that most of both “sides” are semiliterate pawns – either outright living in the wonderland of the press or allowing infiltrators to lead them by the nose 99 times out of 100.
    And in the mess it will be easy to sweep under carpet (or under soil) anyone deviating from desirable development (perhaps anything at all other than “hurr, raciss sexiss muhsoggyKKKnees!” and “hurr, ebil moslems everywhere!” respectively) – just paint them “traitors”, for example. And the usual channels used by dark horses will be inaccessible.
    Then the whole show would go on mostly where the puppeteers want, and then it’s back to the plan, if with setbacks and some actual risk to the puppeteers until it’s over.

  40. Still somewhat chilled and disturbed by the events in Durham, NC, on local news last night and national today. Took me a while to pin down why; then I realized I’d just watched a here-and-now lynch mob “jerk” a statue in place of a living person, right down to the noose around its neck these “protesters” used to drag it down to bent, twisted ruin.
    Not exactly 1960s civil-rights marchers meeting racism and violence with neither, is it?
    Even with its overtly Taliban-esque and Klan-esque overtones, even with an on-camera “explanation” from one “protester” that boils down semantically to “It needed killin’ so we did it” — it’s still only a symbolic murder, of racism and the Confederacy and all (they think) it stood for.
    But a protest, it wasn’t.
    I’m actually guessing not one person in that crowd realized, in context of history’s real lynchings and Jayhawkers and so on, the message of “If you support or defend the CSA, this could be you next” it sends.
    Either the rule of law will re-assert itself, or not; with “not” likely made up of more passive, tacit approval (like too many actual lynchings and Charlottesville) alternating with the kind of pre-emptive appeasement we’ve been seeing for a while already. And if not, this approach could go virulently viral really fast: if you despise it enough, go destroy it.
    Meanwhile, maybe someone could edit (side-by-side or intercut) a video look at such crowdsourced violence: “Southern Mob Action, Then and Now.” Or even do something useful against real racism.

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