Those Ineffective Agitprops by Nicki Kenyon

Those Ineffective Agitprops

By Nicki Kenyon

A few days ago, Sarah discussed the effectiveness of Soviet psychological warfare. I discussed it myself in September on this blog, when I recalled my experiences in Soviet Russia, brainwashed from nursery school to worship Lenin and Marx and the almighty Soviet State. I recalled that all the privations, including the lack of food and hot water, getting beaten up as a child for being a Jew, and even having surgery without anesthesia were all considered normal. Suffering was normal. Everyone suffered, and no one thought life could be different. They were taught to believe that the worst was the best – that suffering was a blessing – that right was left.

The Soviets were masters of brainwashing. Their propaganda machine resonated deeply with its own populace back then and today with spoiled, sheltered Snowflakes who have never experienced the living hell of having no food, of bathing in dirty water that had already been used by other family members, of walking into a store with empty shelves.

Recently a friend ran into just that type of creature, who insisted on bloviating about the good ole days of the USSR and insisted that the bread lines were caused by those spoiled Russian grannies who insisted on having fresh bread every day.


As someone who actually STOOD in those bread lines for our family’s ration of bread, I had to wonder where these ideas are coming from!

No, the lines were certainly NOT caused by those spoiled Russian grandmothers, who insisted on having fresh bread to eat every day. Hell, when I was stationed in Germany with the Army, German families got fresh bread every day, and I can’t remember a single line! In and out in a few seconds. Not that hard.

Fact is stores got produce on certain days. Everyone knew when those days were coming, and lines formed early to ensure that you got your meager ration of milk and bread. When everyone goes shopping on the one day the store has food – the day it arrives at the stores – lines result, and products run out quickly.

Why is it that Marxists have a problem comprehending that? Could it be that Soviet propaganda, as well as Russian PR efforts today, are still their most effective endeavors – more so than military modernization work, and more so than Putin’s political machinations.

Is it willful ignorance? No, it’s Russian skill.

The Russians don’t make a whole lot of mistakes in the agitprop and brainwashing arena. They indoctrinated generations of young people into worshipping suffering, and compared to their subtle campaigns abroad, the efforts against their own populace were positively hamhanded!

Today’s propaganda efforts are subtle and gradual. From drafting new history books that whitewashed tyranny – both past and present – to positive Russian messages through media outlets such as RT and Sputnik, to the nearly inconspicuous and dignified repatriation of the body of Russian nationalist philosopher Ivan Ilyin, the Russians continue to excel at indoctrination and propaganda. Is it any wonder they are spending billions to purchase media outlets in neighboring countries to spread their message?

Note how eagerly American Marxists fall for Russia’s victim routine.

No, Russians say, they never invaded Crimea! Crimea wanted to separate from Ukraine! There were no little green men, and they certainly weren’t Russian! That’s just a Western ploy to discredit Russia and keep Russia down, because the United States can’t stand to see a successful, sovereign Russia. Oh, and by the way, the US was responsible for manipulating oil prices to ensure that the ensuing sanctions to punish Russia for its actions in Crimea would hurt more!

No, Russia says, life was so much better in the past! There was law and order. There was nationalism. There was love of country and patriotism. All lived for everyone else. We need to turn inwards, says Russia. Do you see how much the West hates us? They impose economic sanctions. They lie about is. They want to cause us economic ruin and steal our resources. Time to look inward and turn away from the evil West.

Notice how well those messages resonate with Western socialists. The suffering of the Soviet Union was caused by greed – the communist boogieman – how silly of them to want fresh bread! That’s just greedy!

Couple Soviet and subsequent Russian propaganda efforts with the ever pliant and willing academic community that is wide open to the nationalist and Marxist ideologies that are creeping back into the Russian culture, and you have the most effective PR campaign in the world – both during the Cold War and today.


171 thoughts on “Those Ineffective Agitprops by Nicki Kenyon

  1. It’s not just Russian skill. It’s communist skill in general. You can see it at work not just in Russia — which for all practical purposes is still a communist country even though the labels claim otherwise. You can also see it in Western universities, where communism is the predominant faculty religion.

      1. Bingo! The western Marxists so desperately want Soviet and Russian propaganda to be true that they’ve tilled the soil in their hearts, so to speak, into a lovely seedbed for whatever comes. (With profound apologies to the creator of the original parable.)

          1. National socialists didn’t do socialism right. Private property on means of production and the other heresies.
            As a rule of thumb, it’s not true socialism until there are bread lines.
            See Venezuela, they obviously did things properly.

            1. Mind you, because Portuguese national socialists were mercantilists, they still made us poor, but it was a poor-and-honest type of thing. Also it might be impossible to make Portugal starve. Seriously. There’s a reason it was invaded so much in ancient times. I was used to thinking that the North was not very good land (white clay.) But that’s only true compared to the South of Portugal. I was looking at the neighbor’s mini-farm, smaller than my old backyard — maybe 1/6th of of acre?) and I guarantee she was growing most produce to feed her family for the year, plus wine (around the property) plus a chicken coup and fruit trees. The d*mn place is so fertile that properly managed even as densely populated as it is, it could feeding the world. Even in the seventies, when we were beyond broke (because the international socialists took over) we never starved. Sometimes food got odd, and bananas disappeared, but we didn’t starve.

              1. A lot of the Soviet Union’s problems with bread were caused by the brilliant plan to use only one strain of wheat in every climate, in every season. They had similar ideas about farm equipment.

                1. Central planning.

                  (And part of my brain just went, “Well, of course if you do it stupidly,” and then I facepalmed.)

    1. Russia was good at it before the Marxists. I recommend La Russie en 1839 by the Marquis de Custine. Found only in redacted English translations, at least by me, but mine has a foreword by someone who worked in the American embassy and recommended it as the best book to understand the USSR.

  2. Sophistry and rhetorical skills are more prevalent amongst the reds because the ideas they sell must compete with the wreakage they leave in their wake. This is why Reagan was so dangerous to them. Dude could talk.

  3. Few of us have personal experience of the glorious Soviet Union. We do have access to first hand accounts of the 4 a.m. knock on the door, the cattle cars loaded with people being shipped to Siberia, the men arriving at a camp, being told to build their house if they wanted shelter.

    I wonder how one says ‘never again’ po Russki?

      1. That’s the correct translation, but it sounds awkward to my native speaker ears. There are just some phrases that don’t directly translate.

        1. My Russian is extremely rusty (haven’t used it actively in 10 years. It’s harder to get back into than I thought it would be), but would “совсем некогда” more naturally convey the same concept?

    1. Click!

      The sound of a safety being flicked to the fire position is usually universally understood.

  4. From one of my Russian teachers who lived through the siege of Lenin grad (she was 8 at the time): V Izvesti ne pravda, v Pravda ne Izvesti (“In News there is no truth, and in Truth there is no news” for those who don’t speak Russian.)

    1. And, of course, for those not old enough to remember, “Pravda” (Truth) and “Izvestia” (News) were the names of the two big Soviet newspapers.

        1. Yeah, I’ve seen Pravda cites off and on over the years, though RT gets all of the attention these days. I don’t remember seeing any Izvestia cites after the USSR’s collapse, though.

          1. I should probably start reading it again if only to practice my Russian. (I like to know what the other guy is saying about us. And being able to understand the language means I don’t have to rely on someone else’s translation.)

  5. This is actually part and parcel of my greatest concern for the US–the deliberate re-writing of the myths that firm the foundation of American culture. Instead of being beacon s of Liberty and the value of the individual who has opportunity to rise or fall on his own merits, our founders are portrayed as venal racists who “prospered” through the calculated oppression of others. And while there was some truth to that, there is a difference between flawed men and the kind of monsters the Left likes to portray our founders as.

    So cities under stress do tend to revert to their original myths, to who they see themselves as being. I do not think, however, that the originators of this campaign, be they in Moscow or elsewhere, have thought through the likely consequences. If we revert to these _new_ “founding myths” the results could backfire on them greatly and an American Empire that makes the one from Colonel Kratman’s “Caliphate” seem like a happy, friendly place.

    1. you’re right. I think Sarah wrote a little while back about how the Left had said the magic spell that the right is just racist, rich, and facistic so many times that the spell came true and they got the worst elements of the alt Right in return. If you repeat the lie too often, the people you vilify with it may one day adopt it with pride.

      1. There’s an old saying (with many variations) to the effect of “If you’ve got to do the time, you may as well do the crime” a.k.a. “may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb”. The Big Lie as a self-fulfilling prophecy is one of human society’s biggest weaknesses.

    2. At least a first draft of what an American Empire could look like (alternative history) was done by Chris Nuttall using some of the ideas from Scott Palter’s Dark America in his free book “United States Starship”. Just some highlights as to the Dark American response to possible events:
      1) 9/11 attacks based from Afghanistan
      Response: Drop a big rock on Afghanistan.
      2) Hot war with Russia (when Russia did not yet have the bomb)
      Response: Destroy all major Russian cities with nuclear weapons
      3) Stealing a handbag
      Penalty: year at hard labor.
      Individual retrieving handbag from thieves has absolute right to kill them in the process.
      “You need tougher laws and the willingness to enforce them. Criminals are not nice people, but people who needed a good kick in the unmentionables.”
      4) Murder/kidnapping/rape plot from House of Saud-
      Penalty: death sentence without trial for individuals caught.
      Saudi air force, army, police and religious police stations destroyed,
      3000 sites outside Saudi territory belonging to House of Saud all destroyed,
      Oil facilities hit with radiation based area denial weapon to allow US government to take them,
      Mecca – bombed,
      Terrorist camps – hit with radiation based area denial weapon, and
      Riyadh – hit with nuclear weapon.

      Personally, I think Chris got a lot right as to how a fascist America would act. The world sometimes forgets just how much of a leash we’ve put on America’s basic instincts.

      Just my 2 cents.

  6. I don’t know if it’s skill so much as sheer gall. It is hard to believe that a guy would -lie- like that right in your face, normal people don’t do that sort of thing. Then when you object that they lied, they lie more. They never back off their lie, they always double down.

    That can be a pretty effective strategy in a free democracy. Advantage to free democracy though, once people understand that they’re liars, it’s all over.

    Increasingly, people are making that decision. Why do you think the SJWs are so freaking shrill these days? Their lies have become so detached from reality that they’re having to work harder and harder to double down every time. How do you double something like “objective truth is anti-feminist”?

    1. Hells Bells, Sunday I read a little article on Ace of Spades about some male feminist MD who claimed that: “Literacy has promoted the subjugation of women by men throughout all but the very recent history of the West…Misogyny and patriarchy rise and fall with the fortunes of the alphabetic written word.”…… “Pre-literate cultures were principally informed by holistic, right-brain modes that venerated the Goddess, images, and feminine values. Writing drove cultures toward linear left-brain thinking and this shift upset the balance between men and women, initiating the decline of the feminine and ushering in patriarchal rule.”

      Leonard Shlain was this idiot’s name…..
      He really twists reality to contort to this moronic viewpoint….

      1. This sort of thing only reinforces my suspicion that I’m really still a kid and some rascal slipped me LSD or such and I’ve yet to recover. I suppose this is, though, just the current version of the kook with a “The End is Nigh!” sign, only now the kook doesn’t have to endure weather.

      2. By his own logic, he is either a patriarchal misogynist or a flaming hypocrite. If he believed what he writes, he wouldn’t be writing. I wonder if that conclusion has occurred to him?
        Besides that, if he had experience with a termagant of a grandmother (or other Significant Female), he might not be so effusive about feminine values.

        1. Logic? You really expect morons like him to use logic? IF they ever logically examined their narrative, their heads would explode from the pressure caused by the friction heat of their brain cells twisting from unaccustomed exercise…..

          1. And keep in mind, logic is a tool of the patriarchy. Emotions and intuition are the true female ways of knowing.

            Aaaannnd I’m going to go wash my hands after typing that, and read some Aristotle to wash the residue out of my brain.

        2. It’s a bit like the “logic” that causes people to bitch about overpopulation, while stubbornly refusing to help solve it by committing suicide.

        1. Hah! Everybody knows that real* women don’t think, they feelz**.

          *real, in this usage, equals: authentic

          **Just to get it over with: they feelz nice, reeeeeeaaaaaall nice. [Insert Duranty-esque “hotcha-cha-cha-cha!”]

        2. Credible. Men seem more often to be good at spacial relationships, i.e. visualizing objects in 3d, whereas women seem more often to be good at explaining complexities. Not sure how much of that is early-life gender-model training vs. genetics.

          1. I can do the 3-D thing, so I’m one of the odd females on that one. I’ve been able to look at stuff in various sized boxes, bins and sitting around loose and look at a space and tell you whether it will fit and then get it to fit. But then again, I can explain it too.

            1. Plenty of people in the intersection of overlapping distributions, so you may be “odd” but not “rare” in having both abilities. My wife is also a better-than-most-others packer, and recognized as such by others among our acquaintances.

              1. My wife is also a better-than-most-others packer, and recognized as such by others among our acquaintances.

                In my household, we call it the Filipino Packing Method.

                I’ll admit that it can backfire on me at times. ‘Will it fit’ sometimes doesn’t get tagged with ‘it will weigh too much.’

                1. A familiar side effect – as when my arms got two inches longer from the weight of the carry-on luggage on our last trip by air.

                2. My wife is on the opposite side and it has driven me crazy – we are doing renovations on the house, and what we talk about anything she says – “well, I have to see what it looks like when it goes in”…. But we already paid for the hardwood floor… etc.


                  1. Understood. My wife did, for a few years, run a home business designing wedding flowers. It amazed us both how many brides-to-be, despite our having both pictures and silk-flower samples, could not imagine how their arrangements would look in the colors and flower species they wanted.

            2. Yeah, there’s a number of people who can do that, of both sexes, even though that’s an outlier group. You’ll probably find a higher concentration of them in this forum than in most.

              Most people here would likely score way out in the outlands of language, and many of the women who don’t get run off are very visually-oriented, especially the scientists and engineers. On the other hand, I know people (outside this group) on the other end of the outlier spectrum, like men who can’t visualize a bathtub full of water, or women who can’t string four words together coherently.

          2. Well, it’s also confirmed by porn. Women prefer theirs in words, men in images. (With the usual outliers.) That’s one of the reasons writing lesbian porn is the way to go broke. There are too few lesbians to make it fly, and the men who WOULD make it fly prefer movies.

            1. Well, you know, part of it may be that men get to look at nekkid women when they view porn, while women have to look at naked men. If women want to gaze at male bodies (the Female Gaze?) there’s plenty of very buff men in nearly nothing at the Olympics, in the NBA, etc. There are also plenty of men out and about in public who are strong arguments for men’s burkhas.

              1. Put Larry in a burka. When he bitches, point out that he can carry a BAR concealed in one. As ISIS found to their cost. That is why they are banned in Mosul.

          3. mostly genetics. Caveman Ugg had to have good spatial 3d abilities in order to chuck the spear just right.

            1. Not entirely correct. Caveman Echs’ inability to hit the broad side of a mammoth with his spear resulted in his children being sired by Caveman Ugg.

              Mostly because Caveman Echs was trampled by a mammoth maddened by Caveman Ugg’s spear sticking in its eyeball.

      3. So they hope to convince people to not teach their children to read. Making them more easily manipulated.

      4. Shorter Shlain: “women are inherently illogical, therefore oppressed by a prevalence of logic in the culture.”
        Not unusually, those with the most twisted arguments against misogyny are oft themselves most misogynist.

    2. This is pretty much the modus operandi of the Clintons. Tell a lie. And if you’re confronted on the lie, tell an even bigger, more brazen one. Hillary’s not nearly as good with it as Bill is, but it’s still gotten her to the cusp of the Oval Office (and may yet get her in).

      Obama does it as well, but his thin skin trips him up sometimes.

      1. It only works for them because no-one will call them on it, especially to their faces, because Shut Up. A conservative would not have that advantage. Still it ought to be possible to lie such that when you are called on it the caller destroys part of the prog. narrative.

        1. Which just confirms you’re a Mormon male, you writer you!!!eleventy!!!

          /wishing he wasn’t convinced that Vile770 believes this…..

          1. dear you missed part of her title. She’s a White, Mormon, male with a great rack!

            Steve is going for his second eye surgery tomorrow. His right eye which was operated on first, now has 20/20 vision.

          2. Sigh. My husband checks I’m not male. He checks every day, just to make sure.
            As for Mormon, any Mormon who drank as much as I do would be VERY Jack (Daniels optional.)

          1. Young man, I went to an all girl high school. Anything that keeps women from running much of anything without balance from men has my vote. Patriarchy, (western style. The rest of the world is a little nuts), I’m a fan.
            The closer a society is to matriarchy, the higher the infanticide and pointless cruelty, not to mention the crazy mind games.
            Sure women should have a say. But they shouldn’t have sole say. That’s terrifying.

  7. Quick related story. When I was working in the PRC about ten years ago I was always swarmed by beggars whenever I was about town. I asked my local colleagues, “Don’t they know I’m an American?” “Of course they do, that’s why they come to you to beg.” “But weren’t you all taught in school that Americans are capitalists, and that capitalists are heartless greedy criminals who only care for money?” “Of course we were taught that…” they answered with a laugh, ‘But no one BELIEVES it!”

    As an aside. Don’t give money to street beggars in China. It is run by organized crime and the beggars must give most of their take to their handlers. If you give them anything, give them food as the mob bosses don’t want your leftovers and the beggar can eat it all themselves.

    1. As a response to the aside, see: Peachum, nemesis of Mackie Messer.

      Organized beggars are a long-standing enterprise.

      1. N.B., for those not already familiar with the exploits of Mr. Mackie Messer …

        I offer an introduction and summary portrait of the character.

        1. Nag dabbit, I did NOT need “Mackie Messer” starting in my brain today. it is one of four songs that I accidentally memorized the first time I heard it.

          1. Thanks for the warning. Tempting though it may be, now I’m DEFINITELY not clicking on those videos. In a Gadda Da Vida has successfully cleansed my brain of every resistant song thus far, but why push it?

          2. As you say “Mackie Messer” do you mean the original German? And I cannot help but wonder, what are the other three songs?

            1. Yes, the original German. Listened to it in dialect/pronunciation class and it stuck, hard. One of the other two is “Blowing in the Wind.” Blarg!

          3. I confess that I often find classic era* Broadway musicals a great source for earworm blockers.

            *Showboat through oh, I dunno, Chicago (would have to check.) I never learned how to sing along with Andrew Lloyd Weber’s oeuvre. Make me tighten it and I’ll go 1945 – 1970.

  8. Russia’s government and Western Intellectuals share a common intent: to blame the West for all ills humankind is subject to. They also share a purpose of subjugating all human activity to their leadership, enlightened guidance and profit. They share the opinion that the mass of mankind has been born with saddles on their backs, and they the favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately.

    1. I am minded of an exchange in a comic book. Sue Storm (she was still the invisible girl back then) facing Dr. Doom: “Do you have any idea how dangerous my force fields would be if I decided to play by your rules?”

      Do they have any idea how dangerous the US would be if we decided to play by their tules?

      1. No, because they don’t learn from history. I read some years ago that the US (and possibly before?) has had guerilla warfare used on it multiple times, each time, it was an advantage for the enemy, at first, but after we studied it and started applying it ourselves, we became better at it than the enemy.

        If we started playing by their rules, Russia would be a subject country in a few years.

        1. I read some years ago that the US (and possibly before?) has had guerilla warfare used on it multiple times, each time, it was an advantage for the enemy, at first, but after we studied it and started applying it ourselves, we became better at it than the enemy.

          And the Army dusted off all the old manuals from the Indian Wars and re-read them……

            1. I will admit, I have thought of that as a solution for Mexico. Invade and make more states since most of population seems to come here anyway.

        2. If we started playing by their rules, Russia would be a subject country in a few years.

          Mebbe – but who wants Russia as a subject?

            1. Although as a verb, it works well for describing top-down, regulation-laden, heavy-handed mismanagement of a nation. Here’s an example:

              After his election, Obama did his best to russia America.

            2. The utter emptiness of Marxism was finally and completely exposed leading to the collapse of Russia.

              Is this an acceptable predicate?

              1. Back when I was groping for an outline of sociology I noted with a strong sense of irony that Marx was being hailed as one of the great thinkers in the field at the same time the USSR was falling apart.

        3. Quibble. Assuming Russia becomes a subject country/protectorate… Seriously, our southern border is porous *enough.* Can you imagine the problems with people sneaking *in* to Russia, once it becomes sufficiently Americanized? Economy booming, free markets, bill of rights and all?

          Heck, just having a place you could *walk* to (without the ocean slowing down the influx, vis Cuba), even being an insanely long walk, would create problems as the brain drain really got cranked up.

          And who would be the standard holder for all those Marxists pining for the fjords- err, the ultimate nanny state?

          1. Do you really think that the US has what it takes to hold Russia as a protectorate until fundamental change takes root?

            Do you think that the population of Russia as a whole, raised on the Marxist cult of suffering and privation, will become Americanized before the US gives up and leave?

            Would the Russians once again seek and submit to a new ‘Tsar’ just as they did with Putin?

            1. Depends on how we pacify Russia. Doing a rebuild on their economy, building bases, upgrading infrastructure, and… changing a culture, this has been done before.

              This is not to say such a thing would be *easy,* but Americans have done difficult things before. It would be a damn good thing for *us,* too. Changing our culture, that is, to be the kind that *can* do that. As we are right now, it would be wildly unlikely. Give it time, and a more “can do,” bootstrapping and driven? Sure.

              I’m not blind to our handicaps, just well aware of our proven capabilities. The comment was more than a little tongue-in-cheek, but that’s not to say we wouldn’t actually do it if we put our minds to it.

              1. Just remember that my statement was predicated on the US deciding to play by their rules. I would imagine that the first few thousand gunned down by machine gun fire would discourage enough of the rest to keep the flood to a minor gully-washer, rather than a raging damn burst.

  9. One of the things that I know of that came out of Soviet propaganda that has taken a place in US or Western Culture is Lamaze Breathing technique. It was billed by the Soviets as “Women are strong. They have no need of drugs to give birth. This technique will help you through it.” A French doctor observed it in the USSR and took it to the West in the 1940s (during the “twilight sleep” era). Lamaze breathing has been taught at just about every birthing class in the US that I have ever heard of and now has spin-offs: Hypno-baby, Bradley Method, etc. But the real reason it was created? Not enough pain killers or anesthetic to go around. One of the old World Book Encyclopedia annuals that we have discusses Soviet obstetrics and how “progressive” and cool it was. All I could see while reading through that article was how much propaganda and lack of equipment there was.

    1. Lamaze was a pile of shit. We went through the training when the wife was pregnant with our first son, and it failed miserably. Never bothered with the next three kids.

      1. I did Lamaze – and it did work for me because I had a relatively uncomplicated delivery, I had done yoga in high school – and have a very high pain threshold. It doesn’t surprise me that there are women for whom it doesn’t work, though.
        Interesting it was a Soviet thing, compensating for a lack of drugs.

        1. I think the yoga is what made it “work” — i don’t think it works.
          If second son had been first, and if stupid doctor had not given me pitosin, I’d have thought it worked, too. Because when I went in I was three centimeters dilated and had only felt a sort of twinge. I got to six centimeters before the pistosin (which increased the pain to 11 and made him be out half an hour later. Because doctor believed his predecessor’s report over my saying “no, she just gave me too much pitosin and stopped the birth.”)
          I’d have thought it worked because I had EXTREMELY low natural pain levels. But then anything would have worked.

          1. Women cannot practice the walking technique, hence cannot block pain with the breathing technique. With the walking technique, breathing technique, and the heart sutra practiced to completion, a man can achieve the state of “Meth, Coke, and PCP Unification”, which seals all pain and protective reflexes.

      2. We went through LaMaze classes for all 5 of ours. It worked. Partly because my wife’s longest labor was 46 minutes. Shortest was 22 minutes. There was no time to administer anesthesia. The last class we went through most of the other future parents were young enough to be our kids. The nurse conducting the class didn’t believe us about her short labors. Told us that the day after the birth.

      1. The original true Lamaze technique worked. In a previous life on the eastern front, we all used it, and it worked better than cocaine and methamphetamines. It is incomplete without the walking technique, which is probably impossible for women to learn. Marxists ruin everything they touch.

      2. I think it worked for my mother with me.

        Of course, IIRC, she said that her teacher was surprised that she’d actually used it and not resorted to drugs.

      3. My mother was all for natural childbirth. Once it started, she offered to name the baby after the ostretrician if he’d give her a spinal. Which is why I have a Chinese name.

        It could be worse, the obstretician could have been “Gladys” or “Melinda…”

        1. LOL!
          For me:
          First baby – no painkillers, 38 hour labour, but it was a gentle rise to ‘need to push’.

          Second baby – What the nurses did to me ‘to check if I was dilated’ utterly destroyed any ability of mine to try ignore the pain, so they knocked me out. I hated that; and for hours afterward, Rhys said I would plead ‘get your hand out of there, it hurts.’ So I have no idea if it’d have worked. Until the damn nurses were jamming their fingers into me and into my cervix as roughly as they could, I was fine with the pain. The birth itself, I have no memories of, and I’m rather bitter about that. (Waking up, I was terrified, where’s my baby?!)

          Third baby – Damin’s stillbirth. I’d wanted to go with minimal medications if possible for his sake, but they gave me something to breathe in to lessen the pain. I eventually breathed him gently out.

          Fourth baby was an emergency C-section. Painkillers required. Son came out quickly, initially quiet but then “WHY DID YOU DO THAT?!” crying happened, so I guess his initial momentary silence was ‘wtf it’s cold!’ shock.

          I am unsure what I’ll be medically advised of for birth number 5, we’ll find out once I’m pregnant again, I guess? But being post-C-section, and my being older, I’m unsure I’ll get a chance at being able to try for natural/vaginal birthing again. =/

          1. Sons #2 and 3 were emergency C sections as they tried to come out ass first, flipping in the womb during labor. Judy was 38 when she got pregnant with #4 and was determined to do vaginal delivery for him. The OB/Gyn was skeptical, but allowed her to go through with it. Jimmy was out and in her arms within an hour or so.

              1. My second son was a vbac — vaginal birth after cesarean — I was strongly advised against it, as I was 38 and had a history of miscarriages, and Robert’s birth got hung up for three days WHILE CROWNED (and doctor didn’t believe what I’d determined was the truth. I.e. that the doctor gave me too much pitosin, and kept giving it, so that I stopped contracting and started fibrillating.)
                Okay, the doctor did give me pitosin with Marsh, but once the pistosin hit he was out in half an our. Hurt like hell for half an hour (his head never conformed and I tore from stem to stern) but recovery was MUCH easier, and Marsh was much easier as an infant.
                Oh, and Shadow, check autoimmune. The sort of history you’ve had with the kids in distress, and poor bunny having SIDS is sort of typical of a screwed up immune system attacking the pregnancy.
                I read about this, because I have very bad autoimmune and it was probably at least partly responsible for most of my miscarriages. They said any kid I had, particularly girls would be at risk for SIDS. But recently — and I’m sorry, I have lost the dam article, just took time to look for it, and can’t find it — I read that if that’s the problem there’s preventive things they can do to keep the kids from dying. At any rate, bug the doctors if you have even a hint of autoimmune.

                1. Autoimmune could explain why #5 was such an awful pregnancy for me. Was going to be c-section anyway, but the pregnancy was long. I felt every single day of it. Didn’t help much that it was my rainbow so the anxiety of “Is this one going to develop some issues and die too?” was high. But there were tons of other things going on that made it pretty bad as well.

  10. As a side note, it should be noted that a good portion of the idiots talking about Russia taking over the Crimea like it’s something that’s completely legitimate are alt-righters who see Vladimir Putin as their role model.

      1. Putin’s mode won’t work here for a White Male Republican. A Democrat African-American or Female might conceivably get away with it, but the MSM would never provide the air-support necessary.

        Why was there no “Cindy Sheehan” from the Benghazi Charlie-Foxtrot? Because the MSM refused to have one. Why did Hillary Milhouse Clinton’s missing 30K emails fail to generate anything like the MSM furor that Richard Rodham Nixon’s missing 18 minutes?

        If the GOP hold the House & Senate (as seems likely in a Trump victory) who will the MSM blame if there is a government shutdown? If the GOP hold the legislature and Hillary’s president, who do the MSM blame in event of a government shutdown? If Trump wins but somehow the Democrats take the Senate, who will the MSM blame for a government shutdown? Those answers make clear why Trump cannot ape Putin; unlike Vlad he cannot impale inconvenient journalism. Nobody in his administration will be the brother of a network news operation.

        1. But dear, he’s not a republican, and they know it, and will remember it again after the election. Like Billy Jeff he’ll be an ersatz black president and get everything he wants.

          1. While I am generally incapable of underestimating the mendacity of the MSM, he is so much the embodiment of all that is Politically Incorrect I doubt they will find themselves capable f reversing course and supporting him. He lacks the Clintons’ talent for corrupting all institutions with which he associates.

            Chosing Trump is like playing Russian Roulette with four bullets (one or more of which might be a dud) in a revolver, but Hillary is like playing it with one cartridge in an automatic.

  11. No, Russians say, they never invaded Crimea! Crimea wanted to separate from Ukraine! …

    You forgot “besides which, the Ukrainians are neo-Nazis!”, which always seems to work its way in there somehow.

  12. somewhat tangential: on another post, someone mentioned a book by/about a defector who managed to come over with a few trunkloads of KGB records detailing propaganda missions against the US. Does anyone have an author/title? I’d like to read it.

    1. Likely that was the Romanian general, Ion Mihai Pacepa. He has written articles/done interviews/been written about at PJMedia, National Review, The Blaze and numerous other sites. He has, IIRC, authored several books since defecting to America.

      Put his name in a search engine or go Wiki:

      1. Nah, not him – I’m familiar with Gen. Pacepa’s work. This guy was Russian, not Romanian. Came up in comments here maybe 3 weeks ago

            1. If so, you’ll want to look at Christopher Andres and Vasili Mitrokhin. There are several books, which is not surprising given the sheer volume of material Mitrokhin defected with. You will likely be able to find copies at your local library (or via inter-library loan), via Amazon, or via used book store. The most recent may still be available at regular bricks-and mortar bookstores.

              1. The Venona Papers were the result of American decrypts.

                Mitrokhin was a KGB archivist who surreptitiously made private notes/copies of the files he dealt with, then smuggled them out en masse around the time the Soviet Union fell. A number of Westerners working as Russian agents were exposed in the process.

  13. Volume one was “The Sword and the Shield” history of the KGB, and the second, “The World Was Going Our Way” as activities of the KGB in the third world. There were apparently many times more material in the the archive that MI6 (who have them) and the CIA jointly decided did not need to be known by the common people.

  14. Actually, there ARE food lines in the US.

    On EBT/SNAP/Food Stamp issue day, people go to the stores, pile up their carts and then complain about the long lines at checkout.

    The stores also have a problem: all too often, the customer will tire of waiting and simply abandon their cart (huge time sink on putting everything back). They’ve (around here, anyway) actually asked the legislature to pace the issuance days out over a week to mitigate the problem.

    Try to imagine that in, let’s say Venezuela, where people line up at THE BORDER for a chance to go to another friggin’ country for the chance to buy food…

    But, no, it’s just that it hasn’t really been tried/applied/performed correctly! In America, we’d totally get it right!

    1. “huge time sink on putting everything back”

      Not to mention all the food spoilage…. And it isn’t always the cheap stuff either.

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