She Said I’m Tired of The War

So, Sad Puppies slate was announced.  To see it, go to Brad’s Blog here.

I would particularly like to endorse Kevin J. Anderson’s nomination.  That the man has never received a Hugo is a sort of blot on the field. I haven’t read the suggested novel yet, but I have yet to read one of his novels that isn’t head and shoulders above most of the competition. Because he’s a professional.

While the slate is not rigid — i.e. if you really don’t like one of the stories suggested or have a burning desire to nominate, say (cough) my short story Rising Above from the Shattered Shields anthology, or even (using Wheel of Time exception) Ringo’s zombie series as a “novel” you are not only within your rights but highly encouraged — let’s remember that the more we can “pile on” (which will never be to the brainless level of the other side, which votes for books and authors they don’t even read) the better the overall results.

On the other hand, it’s been hilarious watching the reaction to the slate.  For instance, I’m no longer shocked and vaguely puzzled at being called a Nazi and the world’s worst person over telling the idiots that they couldn’t/shouldn’t kick anyone (even Vox :-P) out of human society.

No, the fricking ijits have already started calling Jim Butcher fascist.  It’s gobsmackingly mind blowing.

Was discussing this with my friend Bill Reader today, as he said his Romney/Ryan sticker on the car was getting faded, which led to us discussing the once and future election (in this case both of us agree that while Romney was never better than acceptable, we could do worse than Romney, and probably will) and he said “remember when Ryan was picked for VP candidate, our side was all afraid the dems would attack him on his inexperience?  Instead, they attacked him on having blue eyes and being fit.”

He says he read a columnist — I’m going to guess Dowd — attacking Ryan PURELY on the fact that he looked innocent and THEREFORE, obviously, must have an evil heart.

I told him “these are not serious people.”  Then came home to reports from my eyes on twitter (the other eyes, Christopher) which told me that they were attacking Jim Butcher as fascist SOLELY because he was in the Sad Puppies slate.

Dorothy Grant recently told me about the name for when you stand, with a finger on either side of the bridge of your nose, your eyes closed, your head inclined: Sinal Salute.

Guys, the only reason I’m not doing the sinal salute is that I am typing.  I need a moment.

These people are completely unhinged.  They are so unhinged they don’t know the definition of “hinged.”  It never occurs to them to look at the legitimate reasons to oppose something or someone (say, not liking the person’s writing) or the illegitimate but true reason (not liking the person’s politics, which might not have anything to do with what they write.)  No, they jump straight to the crazy cakes reason to oppose say a Hugo nomination.  “He’z a fazcisssss eleventy!”

The sad part of all this being, of course that the policies they highly approve of are in fact fascist, because it turns out the only way to make a communist regime sort of work is to make it fascist but not call it that, like China.  (And then it only works for limited definitions of work.  I mean, it crashes slower.  But it’s more effective than communist regimes.  Which is sort of like saying paper is more edible than plastic.)

These are not only not serious people, these are people who, in a cartoon, would be running from a guy in a butterfly net.  These are people who think that vagina monologues are sexist, not because — duh — they’re a bunch of twaddle centering on a part of female anatomy that not only never spoke but is highly unsuited to thinking with, but because it discriminates against women with penises.

I need a moment.  (Does Sinal Salute.)

These are people Vagina Vigilants who think the most important thing about a guy who landed a probe on a comet is the shirt he’s wearing.

I’ve written characters who would be locked up in real life for being too crazy to live — Dyce Dare, really — but none of them are as insane as people who think that what makes books “important” is “diversity” usually figured out by the WRITER’S external characteristics.  Which means the stories are usually all alike, since they conform to Marxism — but the writers, oh, by gum, they have people who can tan all sorts of shades and who self-define as all sorts of genders.

Now, if only we could read the authors instead of the stories?  (Did anyone say “entrails”?)

Did I mention that a week or two ago, my Book Plug Friday Post got picked up by Passive Voice.  Great, right?  Sure, except that crazy people immediately started attacking me PERSONALLY in the comments.

With most of my BPF posts, I would to “Well, they disagree about indie/publishing/politics.”  I wouldn’t call them crazy.  Except this post was on EDITING and pointing out to people the difference between copyediting and structural edits and the difference in price, as well as caveats before you allow someone to do structural edits on your novel.

Was there room for disagreement?  Sure thing.  There always is.  What there wasn’t room for was calling me the world’s worst person over them.  Let’s take wassherface who wrote the dinosaur tripe.  I don’t think she’s despicable.  A tad immature, perhaps, but that’s curable.  (I mean she MIGHT be despicable.  I don’t know her.  But I rather doubt it, because most people aren’t.  They’re okay but flawed.)

Let’s say she wrote a post about how paleontologists would surely be murdered for going into a working class bar.  I might call her a few choice names, mostly synonymous with “you don’t live in the real world, do you?”  In fact, I more or less did that based on her short story.  That’s fine.  That’s called disagreement.

But let’s say she wrote an article on how to write characters.  And let’s say it was the worst article on how to write anything since Writing the Eye of Argon Way (I apologize because it’s not fair to presume she’d write a bad article, but it’s necessary for the example.)

I might (if I were trying to avoid actual work) comment and point out the flaws.  But I wouldn’t call the author the worst person ever, or infer anything about her, personally, from a technical article.  Much less would I seize the opportunity to bring in totally unrelated stuff.

The left does this because that’s all they have.

These are not serious people. In fact while I want to emphasize they ARE people, they don’t behave like people.  They behave like stray bits of code left behind by the Soviet Union which, devoid of a central animating purpose anymore, or the illusion that it really was better behind the curtain (really guys?  That’s why so many West Germans were shot trying to flee to the East, right?  Oh, wait.) they just carry on their fragmentary and not very coherent bits of programming.  So, the destruction of Western Civ is still on, though only the crazies believe that communism/utopia will magically emerge then.

They remind me of eczema. They remind me of eczema because I have it.  Eczema is an auto-immune disorder.  This means it attacks my own body.  It is also more or less unpredictable.  I mean, there are triggers for the eczema: stress, dry skin, a molecule of detergent left on the clothes after three, four, five rinses, sugars or really any amount of carbohydrates over 20 grams a day (in my case.  Other people have other triggers.)

But you never know to what triggers the eczema is going to react.  Sometimes (my birthday) I’ll eat say a piece of cake, and by rights I should have raw palms (or elbows.  or belly) the next morning.  But sometimes there’s no reaction at all.  Other times it will be all out of proportion.

The only thing I know for sure is that if there is a reaction, it will be disproportionate and counterproductive.

Sort of like the left.

Which brings me to the title of this post.  (I was listening to Leonard Cohen again.  Shoot me.)

Am I tired of the war?  Oh, heck yeah.  They’re not interesting opponents.  They just jump up and down and either name call or scream things that have nothing to do with the subject or that are in and of themselves completely insane.  Like, “discrimination against women with penises, Awk!”  (It helps if you add “awk” or “Polly wants a cracker” to the end of the crazy stuff they say.  Seems somehow more reasonable.) “Sexist shirt, Polly wants a cracker” “Jim Butcher fascist, Need New Cage Liner.”

However, being tired of the war doesn’t mean I’ll give up fighting.  I can’t give up fighting because every time we stop applying a corrective, these people decide they’ve won the war and also that they were right all along.  And THEN they take another step into crazyland.  (Think cartoon character running middair.)  And they are ALREADY not serious people.

Rather being tired of the war means I’ll fight harder because I just — sinal salute — need the craziness to end.  Now.  Yesterday, if possible. I have books to write and I don’t find this stuff amusing anymore.

I didn’t start the war.  I just want to end it.  And the only real way to end it is by winning.  Even if the weapons of victory involve pointing and making duck noises while the other size screams.

I figure duck noises are more sensible than “Awk, Awk, fascisssss, Polly wants a cracker.”

222 thoughts on “She Said I’m Tired of The War

  1. I’m just going to HAVE to quote Larry Correia’s “Sad Puppies” comic.

    Sorry, hon, but you’re just going to have to cope, with only your huge fan base and large royalty checks to fall back on.

    As an exercise to keep you smiling, I suggest that you visualize how each of these special snowflakes would fare in a Zombie Apocalypse. . . . (evil grin)

    1. These nitwits in a Zombie Apocalypse? It’d be like the joke about an AK breaking out in DC; the Zombies starved to death.

      I have BTW sussed out what will CAUSE the inevitable Zombie Apocalypse. Some poor, overstressed shop clerk, required to come in to work on Thanksgiving, will snap and bite a customer. We dodged the bullet in 2014, but you KNOW it gonna happen some year.

      1. How would you distinguish between the SJWs and zombies during the ZA? One group is maded up of shambling, unrelenting drones with no more use for brains than to stuff them in their mouths — and the other’s undead.

    2. The historical and political ignorance of the SJW aside, it might be fun to apply Fred (of Fred on Everything)’s reply of “So what?” That should make a few of their heads go explody.

      This is really a standard response. By putting their victim on the defensive, the SJW changes the debate from the main topic to the nature of the victim. When the victim refutes the charges, the topic shift is complete. It works really well when emotion and slur are the only real ammunition they have.

    3. Sorry, hon, but you’re just going to have to cope, with only your huge fan base and large royalty checks to fall back on.

      And both of them growing, in contrast with the junky scifi…

  2. Zombie Apocalypse? I’d like to see them survive living in 1912 rural Arkansas where my grandfather was born.

  3. Jim Butcher is a fascist? Really? I don’t even have a clue which way Mr. Butcher leans politically because, to the best of my knowledge, he has never made any political statements. With his books or in any other format.

    Honestly though, I kind of approve of them attacking Jim Butcher. It’s the kind of mistake you only get to make once. I’m buying popcorn in bulk for when the legions of Butcher fans(of which I am one) WAAARGH! the SJW’s. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.

    1. Which means, of course, that he is a fascist by their definition, since he isn’t coming out in support of them. Fascist by omission.

        1. Yep. A super awesome Knight of the Cross, the time travelling wizard cool enough to only be known by his title of Gatekeeper, and…. actually, I have no idea who the 3rd is. Kincaid? One of the Alphas? A Denarian? Butcher’s descriptions are quite good, but I honestly can’t recall. In any case, I imagine said character is appropriately epic, and this gives me an excuse to reread the whole series ((grin))

            1. Huh. I didn’t catch Rawlins and forgot about Martha Liberty. I *think* Rashid is North African, though I could be wrong

    2. According to Larry, fairly liberal, but one who supports the military, doesn’t bash Christians and supports the Second Amendment, at least for wizards.

      1. For wizards, hmmm? What about Witches, hexibeasts, mages, spell-crafters, wise-women, and other persons of thaumatude, huh? #magelivesmatter

      2. I’d love to see somebody trying to “disarm” one of Butcher’s wizards. “Weapons? I don’t need weapons to kill you!”. [Very Big Evil Grin]

    3. I don’t even have a clue which way Mr. Butcher leans politically because, to the best of my knowledge, he has never made any political statements. With his books or in any other format.

      My impression is “decent guy.”

      The kind that you don’t talk politics with, not because they’ll make you want to bash brains out, but because it’s just Not Done.

      Kinda classy.

  4. Sad Puppies Four needs to have an Approved SJW author on the ballot, so we can watch them eat their young.

          1. No, that would be a step too far, I fear. NOBODY should be subjected to That Book.

              1. And the hara-kiri of the SJWs after a few pages **ISN’T** a net positive ??

                And besides, it would give Normie an audience every bit as demented and warped as he is. . . . (evil grin)

                1. No the SJWers wouldn’t read it they’d just condemn him unread. The people that would read it are the non-SJWers and we don’t want to in flict that level of suffering on them

                  1. So, what you need to do is annouce loudly & often that there is no way under the sun that you’d ever, ever nominate that book. 😈

      1. Elizabeth Moon. Assuming she has a book out this year and she probably will have a Paks one.

        Hey it’ll be competently written, have good characters and plotting and only a few chunks of handwavium

    1. I’m not sure I could do that….. the difference between a hard-core liberal or even communist like Eric Flint, and an SJW, is that one actually tells good stories.

      1. I think it was one group of maronies arguing with Mad Mike who said Flint doesn’t count because he is male, white, and old. This was in response to Baen didn’t discriminate against good writers for political reasons or some such.

    2. Ooh, is it too late to nominate the new Cosmos series for best long-form media? Use the Wheel of Time exception to count the series as one item. It’s got some science, and quite a bit of fiction. And NdGT is one of their favorites.

      1. Speaking of RT, wasn’t Alex of Tor linked to her? And I note that Alex hasn’t posted at since the story broke. Quietly fired?

  5. I’m tired of it too – and only engage when something about the argument makes it worth the time to stand up and say “look, there’s something you’re missing here” or I’m in the mood to mock and deride people who are not arguing in good faith (“the internet argument checklist”)

    That said, there are so many places it is necessary to stand up and say “that will not do/is not right”

    And it’s getting to be like the water. There are few places free of hectoring about tolerance and equality, or whatever the key word of the day. You mentioned the Vagina monologues – in 20 years that has gone from far radical feminist to insufficiently inclusive for feminist activists.

    TV shows, books, mainstream publishing, movies. As Sad Puppies and Gamergate showed, they’ve infiltrated computer games, hobby games, and Sci Fi.

    They won’t allow a dissenting opinion or attitude. Disagreement is bad!

    We have Sarah Silverman making a joke during a Super Bowl ad, in a delivery room – “Sorry, it’s a boy” – where the assumption required to make it funny are pretty horrifying and do not speak well of her or the worldview of men, or the view of the people writing the script.

    But “you hit like a girl?” Mortal insult, scar girls forever. Never mind any actual generalized differences that girls should be aware of if they want to realistically make decisions. Point that out and you’re an awful misogynist. (there’s a now LONG google+/youtube thread kicked off by Jeffro that displays this wonderfully, the entire internet argument checklist, and then some).

    John Wright pointed out the fundamental difference between those who say “I’m not interested in reading more books praised by SJW’s, especially if the author’s stuff in the past has been tripe” and “I’m not interested in reading anything by Butcher because he ended up on the Puppy slate.”

    Frankly, it’s easier, once you know they are not arguing seriously but just repeating BS, to do as you often suggest. Point and make duck noises.

    1. But “you hit like a girl?” Mortal insult, scar girls forever. Never mind any actual generalized differences that girls should be aware of if they want to realistically make decisions.

      And another thing about that ad that bugged me: they misidentify the problem. The close said something like, “Most girls’ self-esteem plummets during puberty. Guess why.” But its implication, that it was because of negative messages received during childhood, completely misses the real cause of most women’s problems during puberty. Puberty is, of course, when girls really start to notice boys, and want boys to notice them. But most women won’t be winners in the genetic lottery; most will be average-ish. Maybe nice, but not really spectacular. And ALL of those nice-but-not-spectacular, or just-on-the-plain-side-of-average women will have easy access to images of Kim Kardashian, or Kate Moss, or whoever the next “famous for being famous” women will be, who are in the top 5% (or better) of the genetic lottery for attractiveness. And nearly all of those average girls will compare themselves to the top 5% and think, “I don’t measure up.”

      That’s the major cause of girls’ self-esteem plummeting during puberty: comparing themselves to the “competition”. But the ad completely misidentifies the problem, which means that the solutions it proposes will not work. At which point those proposing the solutions will say, “The theory cannot be wrong! We must TRY HARDER! And arrest all those reactionary elements who are sabotaging the Glorious People’s Revolution!”

      1. Actually, what happens with puberty is that reality starts kicking in.

        I am still amused by the story in which a three-year-old, told she could be anything she wanted when she grew up, decided she would be a ladybug. By grade school, I would expect them to realize they have to become something limited by their humanity. And in puberty, it starts to dawn on them that, no, actually, it’s very unlikely that they will be movie stars, sports stars, rock stars, etc. Girls before boy.s

        So you get people have hysterics over girls stopping saying that “I’m good at a lot of things,” is true, without mentioning that their new answers — mostly true, or somewhat true, somewhat false — are not deemed unhealthy.

        1. A co-worker from a job ‘way too long ago wanted to be a “little frame house with a white picket fence” when she was in, oh fourth or fifth grade. This alarmed her teacher, who called the girl’s mom in for a conference session.

          After being told by the teacher what awful thing was going on with her daughter, the mom thought for a while, then responded wistfully: “That sounds very nice, actually”. Teacher was left floundering, without a life raft in sight.

          Faith (my friend) changed her goals several times after that, ended up being a technical writer.

      2. Not to mention that girls have to deal with the nastiest, dirtiest-fighting, back-stabbing segment of humanity — other adolescent girls.

          1. That’s a lie.

            Kipling said it best: “The Most Dangerous Of The Species”. [Shudder]

  6. “the only way to make a communist regime sort of work is to make it fascist but not call it that, like China.”

    Ha! I’ve argued the same point with lefties who simply cannot grasp that fact. You have all the characteristics of fascism in China, from a racial dictatorship (for the Han, in this case) to State control of an economy that benefits a wealthy elite. If it goose-steps like a goose …

    1. The thing that gets me about their attitude toward China, is that they apparently BELIEVE the statistics being put out by the Chinese government. Why? On what basis?

      I have the same reaction to their positions on Russia. They will tell me that abandoning the Communist control of the soviet economy caused it to shrink a huge amount. And I say “And why do you assume that that isn’t largely the amount that the Sovie State was lying”

      And they go real quiet.

      1. Especially since the primary reason the Russians put up with Putin is that he’s done good things for their economy (as they see it.) Though that’s starting to go.

        1. “Good Things for the Russian Economy” in this case mostly being “Collected the extra oil money caused by the House of Saud jacking the price up and spending it domestically.”

          Now that the oil prices are being artificially pushed low by the aforementioned House, not so good anymore, is it Vlad?

          1. *chuckles* And the down turn is being noticed by the populace who would let him get away with anything in foreign policy as long as their lots continued to improve and the wasn’t randomly shooting people (Though in his case it was mostly because he wants to rebuild a power house he can then apply to his own ambitious plans).

            He also may discover that intimidating your customer base only works for so long… It may not be there for him any more when the Saudis let the prices go back up.

            1. As pointed out by a Russian I know: take a look at the price of oil in Rubles over the last couple of decades.

              Tells you absolutely everything you needed to know about the basis of the Russian economy

              1. Indeed. And from my profession: The number of geology/Exploration (as in oil/gas not Lewis and Clark) articles with Russian authors and in Russian (Thought the later are more rare).

                Fun Trivia. The Russian natural gass field has one significant engineering difficulty. It’s containing layer is permafrost… drilling generates heat even in Siberia.

        2. Another BIG reason – he’s unapologetic about being Russian, and wanting Russia to be strong and prosperous and a global power. He’s on their side. That will get a guy quite a long way and your average Evgeny isn’t going to sweat the details as to how, precisely, Putin does the job.

          1. Indeed. Putin is a dangerous man, but he is ‘their’ dangerous man. I don’t think they’ve figured out (except for the Russian Mafia) that if he decides anyone /internally/ is not good for Russia, he ceases to be ‘their’ dangerous man and they become either dead or ruined depending on the kind of effort he wants to put into it.

    2. You have all the characteristics of fascism in China, from a racial dictatorship (for the Han, in this case) …

      And one enforced in part by air superiority. We might as well call them the Air Lords of the Han …

                    1. richard mcenroe (@richard_mcenroe) | February 3, 2015 at 11:02 pm |
                      It makes me Crabbey.

                      Buster, you shouldn’t get crabbey in a flash. After all. your bull isn’t getting gordon.,

    3. Bluntly, the reason they don’t grasp is that they are still shilling for Stalin. They may be so bewildered by bafflegab that they do not realize it, but it’s Stalin’s line that all his opponents are right-wing that they are touting.

    4. They also don’t grasp China particularly well at all. The Chinese are Chinese first then anything else… they’re used to assimilating others not being assimilated.

      1. And that trait is just SO endearing to their neighbors.

        Ask any Vietnamese folks about their view of the Middle Kingdom…

        1. Or the Koreans, though they prefer the Chinese over the Japanese. Or did until the Korean War, which resulted in a very ‘a pox on both your houses’ kind of feeling from, at least, South Korea. Their more recent actions haven’t helped their case on that end. Not something the SJW have noticed either, but that would require them to actually attempt to understand the world that is around them.

  7. Be a happy warrior, Sarah. Laugh at them. Mocked them incecently (they hate that because they don’t understand it.) I’ve had to slow down on doing it myself because, while it’s fun to write a snark filled post filled with facts, links, and interpretive dance, it isn’t a productive use of time.

    Oh, can someone post links to where Butcher is being called a fascist? I want to save those for later use.

    1. I quoted him at Brad’s:

      ““Ian Sales
      ‏@ian_sales I see fascist scumbags’ve posted their ballot & they’re a force to be reckoned with which is why same few names appear lots of times on it”


      “Ian Sales ‏@ian_sales · 44m44 minutes ago
      @Paul_C_Smith surprised Jim Butcher is on their list, didn’t know he was a fascist. Not that I’ve read his books or ever plan to”

      1. Are there more from different people? I can hardly use one quote to convince the unconvinced. They’ll see it as an outlier. We need to establish a pattern.

        1. Time is limited for me now, but here’s Jim C Hines, equating Sad Puppies with GamerGate:

          “Jim C. Hines ‏@jimchines · 6h6 hours ago
          So basically, the whole Sad Puppies thing is really about ethics in Hugo Award nominating, right?”

        2. And our old “pal” Damien:

          · 6h 6 hours ago
          Making a list of things more childish than trying to rig a sci-fi fan award. It’s very short and includes “laughing at your own farts”

          “‏@damiengwalter If we’re “lucky” some Islamic fundamentalists will decide to hijack the Hugo award as well and they’ll cancel the Christian fundies out.”

          1. I’d really like to arrange a little compare and contrast for Damien, Christian fundies on one side Islamic fundies on the other.

            Problem being, the Christians are unlikely to stand by while the Islamists saw his empty head off, so he won’t get the full experience.

                1. “I hope any man interested in that has a sheep dip factory.”

                  I am so stealing that…

  8. I feel sorry for Butcher. He’s minding his own business, writing entertaining stories for his fans, and, I presume, making a living at it. And then one day he wakes up and finds he is being denounced as a fascist because some people who are on the SJWs shitlist happen to like his work.

    1. Yeah, no kidding. But look at it this way: being falsely accused of fascism means you’ve made it.

      1. I’m curious how this is going to turn out. The SJWs are going to demand that he denounce the ELOE and submit to the ceremonial mounting or face their disapproval. I have recently began reading his Dresden Files series. I find them entertaining, real page turners. However, I am not going to buy any more of his books if he starts denouncing me as a evil hater who hatey hate hates.

            1. Maybe he’ll redshirt the entire ELOE in his next work. “Take that for putting me on the Hugo list”.

    2. He won’t care. He writes a book and the money rolls in. A few whiney haters aren’t worth getting worked up about

  9. Um….

    Sarah, I love you and all, but…what are you talking about? I’ve now twice read through the TPV article that referenced your editing piece, and I don’t see the “She’s the worst person ever” vitriol that you’re talking about in the 97 comments to that post. Hell, the vast majority of the comments seem to be agreeing with you, to one degree or another.

    Not trying to discount the phenomenon you’re talking about here. I’ve seen it in action countless times. But it doesn’t seem to have occurred in that particular instance.

    Or did I miss something? That’s distinctly possible I suppose, since I’m on deployment right now and have been at sea for quite a while. Were there some other sites that went wild at you over that one, or something?

    1. I read it when it first came live and I recall a few attack comments, but I didn’t save them. I assumed that PG would get word and remove the worst ones.

      1. I checked internet archive and they missed that day. I really wish they would put a placeholder in when something is deleted.

        1. place-holders, and allowing comments to stand behind something explaining them etc tend to be very rare, and tend to live on the “right” side of the blogosphere. The others will delete only the valid arguments and keep the blithering (usually false flag) comments to shore up their claims of irrationality of their opponents.

  10. “damiengwalter
    · 35m 35 minutes ago
    Science fiction award under attack by religious fundamentalists. It could almost be the plot of a Philip K Dick novel.”

    (points) QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

      1. That’s a not unknown SJW tactic; report someone’s site to someplace like Firefox or McAfee Site Advisor as a malware source. A lot of businesses put any site on that list on block and then no one can visit it from a work computer.

      2. Really? This is the self-reported thing? This site is very secure and we don’t even get bad spam on the page. BUT some scans allow “reporting” and this and mad genius club get reported REGULARLY.

    1. *sigh*

      They’re becoming increasingly obvious — it’s kinda boring.

      Was noticing the pop-media articles showing up with reflexive denunciation of whichever potential GOP candidate is trending: Inflammatory headline, thin argument, effortless to refute or illustrate concurrent “sins” across the aisle. It’s nothing more than a talking points article. An obvious one.

      Religious fundamentalists? Does f@#k-head have any points of contact with a reality anyone else participates in? You’d think somebody so successful at crafting such intricate delusions could write a story somebody’d want to read…

      1. Religious fundamentalists. Riiiiight. At best I’d say maybe 50% of sci-fi/fantasy readers believe that their personal religious practice is a fundamental part of their lives. Otherwise? I am soooo not seeing it.

        1. Religious fundamentalists = Religious Fanatics in the “Minds” of the Left.

          Also, there’s a “meme” out there that “Politically Conservative = Conservative Christian”.

          Of course, in their “minds” Conservative Christian means Religious Fanatics.

          “There’s no Intelligent Life on the Planet of the Lefties”. [Evil Grin]

          1. It’s the same way that the only reason to oppose abortion on demand is because you’re forcing your religion on others– when the best argument I’ve ever seen is explicitly based on the strictly scientific basis of “that’s a human, so you can’t kill it.”

            And yet, there are a reassuring number of atheists who recognize that the power to decide who is “really” a person and who is a lesser creature is incredibly easily abused power that you can’t rein in once it’s granted.

            1. Yep. Ask the Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians what they think is likely to happen if the “gay gene” assertion is more widely accepted.

              1. Basically what I’ve been saying for 10 years: once a genetic marker is found, there will be a genetic test, and in a lot of places, especially Islamic countries, there will be systematic abortion of any fetus who tests positive for it.

          1. You seem to assume that words have definitions independent of the leftists’ desire to smear.

        2. Probably in the same proportion as nationwide demographics – whatever that proportion may be.

  11. I personally love a good fight. I fight dirty, too. If they are trying to come off as reasonable, I’ll use facts; failing that, ridicule, derision and outright fabrications are the name of the game. In other words, I use some of their own tactics.
    I like using the Socratean method of asking them seemingly agreeable questions and watch them flounder as they try to answer while still being PC, especially when they just countered their own arguments.
    And I just love to see them go cross-eyed, sputter incoherently, then unfriend me. I wonder how many broken fingers I’ve cause as people slam their index fingers onto the computer key?

  12. Just posted my nominations on Sasquan. For the heck of it, I nominated Sarah’s “My Last Post On SFWA — Pinky Swear” for Best Related Work, because it was freak’in hilarious. If they could nominate someone’s over-the-top reaction to winning a Hugo as “Best Dramatic Presentation Short Form” (which happened in the 2012 noms, using video from the 2011 ceremonies), then I can’t see why that post can’t be nominated as well.

    Good luck to everyone involved!

  13. “damiengwalter
    · 35m 35 minutes ago
    Science fiction award under attack by religious fundamentalists. It could almost be the plot of a Philip K Dick novel.”

    Actually, I think Sad Puppies signaled the start of the Counter-Reformation.

  14. Sarah, that eczema analogy was as spot on a description of the Precious Darlings as anything I’ve read. You’re right, you never know when they’ll strike and their reaction is always inappropriate and all out of proportion to the triggering action.

    PS: sorry you have that. May the proximate cause be soon identified and easily avoided. Fair seas and following winds.

  15. Sarah, you said, “The only thing I know for sure is that if there is a reaction, it will be disproportionate and counterproductive.

    “Sort of like the left.”

    And I agree with all but 1/2 word–the first half of “counterproductive.” Because like your eczema, the capricious response to a trigger creates fear.

    Let’s suppose you’re a nice person who’s mostly liberal (oxymoron, but we’re supposing here). You note that someone in the Evil Axis of Evil makes a useful point about characterization. Then suddenly the world falls on you as if you’d done something really heinous (like wearing a colorful shirt to a comet landing). And what’s your response? Feeling cowed? Not gonna do that again.

    It’s like your birthday cake. You won’t eat anything anywhere close to something that triggered pain in the past. Like those rats in cages when given random electrical shocks, you become passive. (Not you you, the hypothetical mostly liberal mentioned above.) And passive you ask no questions of the lemmings closest to the fijord.

    1. The real ending to “The Emperor’s New Clothes” is the emperor sent his brute squad over to beat the kid to a bloody pulp, and everyone complimented the emperor on his sartorial excellence.

      1. This may not work long term. I am thinking of Romania.

        But I also don’t know what winning looks like.

        1. Winning looks like the same fight for all eternity, because the same stupid f*king ideas pop up over and over and there’s always some sucker to believe them and some sociopath who sees them as a route to power.

    2. I keep telling folks, they can’t depend on what they HEAR from my generation to figure out what we think, because of exactly this reason.

      It’s like how the Big Three topics use to be conversation killers– nobody talked about it in polite company, because if you did you’d be identified as a trouble-maker.

      Now, you run the same risk if you talk about it and don’t say the ‘correct’ things, and which limits you to agreeing or going further to the left.

      It’s not that nobody had sex, politics and religion before this started, they just didn’t talk about it.

      1. Oh, those big three. At first I thought you meant 45 vs 9mm, 1911 vs everything else, and Mac vs Windows.

        1. .45/Glock*/Mac. Although I may go back to Linux if Apple goes much farther round the bend.

          * Because anything worth shooting with .45 ACP is worth shooting 13 times with .45 ACP.

              1. But when you’re used to programming OS8/9, that’s a distinction without a difference. I missed the transition bandwagon because I was working for Palm while it was going on.

      2. I always thought it was politics, religion, and the weather. Well, I like learning something new every day so … thanks Foxfier! 🙂

      3. Nobody had sex, every until the sexual revolution happened. Honest. I read it on the internet…on a blog somewhere…they had graphs…and charts.

        1. And when I made the (I thought sophomoric) suggestion that Yeats’ poem “The Dolls” referred to sex, I was told that was an anachronism. Apparently they didn’t have sex Back Then.

  16. I find myself vaguely reminded of INTERCAL. It was a joke programming language intended to be as completely impractical as humanly possible, while still, actually being Turning Complete. One of their design codes was to use no preexisting operators or control structs ever implemented.

    They failed. According to Wikipedia, the Soviet BESM-6 already had an implementation of the INTERCAL “Select” operator.

    Welcome to the mindfield of the genderbread purple penguins. This next generation is going to be so completely messed up.

    1. C Plus Equality. Read the comments in the sample code. From the “Hello Feminists!” example:

      10. * For millennia, human society has taught young, new programmers
      11. * their toxic, seminal first lesson in the form of the Patriarchal
      12. * "Hello, World!" From that very first moment, when the gleam of the
      13. * first lustre in the eyes is still found in the new software engineer,
      14. * all code henceforth is poisoned by the toxic implantation of the
      15. * poisonous seed that is the Patriarchal "Hello, World!" A thousand
      16. * sighs may not redeem such dolorous Fall, and a thousand tears may
      17. * not repeal such internalised privilege.
      1. *snort-cackle*

        Wish I’d had this the other day when I dove into the article on the inherent patriarchy of written language, and how computers were going to free us from the rigidities of male logic, etc…

  17. I like the aikido move of adding Butcher to the Sad Puppies list, and we should be on the watch for others like that–where we can make a very pointed statement to the SJW shrieking. “We like their writing. They aren’t rude to people who think differently, and we don’t know or care about their politics.” And ONLY SAY THAT. Lots and lots of times. It won’t convince the SJW types, but many silent people read comments. They are the ones we need to sway, and provoking the SJWs into revealing their true natures in public only helps our cause.

    As for the slate, I’d like to mention Spindrift the webcomic. Neat story, cool art, cool world, no idea of the politics if any (although the story does feature the dangers of glomming on to racial identity…) I think Chapter 2 is eligible for the Hugos

    1. “We like their writing. They aren’t rude to people who think differently, and we don’t know or care about their politics.”

      I like this. It’s been Larry’s point all along, of course, but I like emphasizing it with somebody like Butcher.

      I like his writing, and I don’t know or care about his politics.

      1. This is why I think Eric Flint should be on the ballot for his 1632 books. They’re cracking good alternate universe stories, which stand on their own merits for good characters and writing. Flint himself should be a darling of the SJW set, because of his background in unions and labor and socialist politics. Most SJW just dream of it–Flint has DONE it. I have met him–he’s a good guy, even though our politics don’t match at all.
        I like his writing, even though I do know about his politics.
        If he’s on the Puppy Slate, it’ll look pretty silly for the SJW folks to refuse to read one of their own (much more so than Butcher is).

    2. Additionally: I just clicked through on your little link (evil!) — LOVE the artwork, now will scroll through the archives (evil!) and see about the story.

      Thanks (evil!).

      1. 😀 If I corrupt five more people this week, I can send in the Junior Apprentice Minion application to the Evil League of Evil. You get a button and a decoder ring!

          1. Three. That is awesome artwork. I’ll see if I can get my brother hooked and help Sabrina reach her goal… 🙂

              1. Well, I’ve been corrupted for awhile…. But I won’t admit it publicly. You can put me on your application. Congrats. You only need one more.

                1. Gah!
                  I don’t need more webcomic goodness! (Or do I?)
                  Curse you!
                  (Now I must go home and share this with my wife and kids.)

          2. Two more. Got that application filled out? Remember, postage has gone up. (Nerfs are more difficult to herd during the off-season.)

          1. …do they get decoder rings? I may have possibly kind of accidentally set up a spam filter for the Evil HR Department, and missed the assignment memo.

    3. I recommend the webcomic Stand Still, Stay Silent. It’s set 90 years in the future after a biological apocalypse swept the world, wiping out most of civilization and turning most people and animals into VERY nasty creatures. A few have survived in pockets here and there, such as Scandinavia, where the comic is set. We get to see Finns and Swedes and Danes and Norwegians (and a few Icelanders) all try to survive in a troll-haunted wilderness while they search for rare treasures (books!) in the ruins of cities.
      The art is very good, and the story is quite tense and compelling, although it takes a while for the action to start.
      Bonus Sad-Puppy points–it’s set in SJW heaven, in what were once the socialist paradise countries of Scandinavia. The artist is a Finn.
      (View it here:

  18. These folks do something far worse than tear down work merely because they don’t like the author. They also build up the substandard because it comes from someone they approve of – if it has the correct opinions behind it, then it must by default have artistic merit. Thus nonsense is elevated as brilliance and the substandard replaces any actual standard.

    And worse still – not only artistic merit, but also deeper moral truth. Any mere opinions of those they agree with are elevated to fact. Anything boring or incomprehensible become the Emperor’s New Logic, and they praise it as an oblique way of praising their own enlightened minds in grasping it. And those who disagree, regardless of fact or logic or principle, must in fact be mentally damaged and morally corrupt.

    I have this argument in my house all the time… with my dog, every time I try to take anything from her that would be harmful if swallowed. She snarls and bites. I can take her actual food and water dishes away while she’s eating or drinking and she behaves perfectly, but a nylon or a store receipt or a dropped drinking straw? WAR.

    It’s pointless to reason with her, and no matter how much we all tried in her puppyhood to train her, this ingrained reaction was never correctable. In this, her hunting instinct takes over – she “caught” it and will not be robbed of her victory. Even playing fetch with her is pointless, because she’ll happily bring anything back, but then will refuse to drop it, even though she knows it’s going to be tossed right back to her.

    1. That’s funny. Our mutt will bring one of his toys, usually the Frisbee, ball, or rope, and try to drop it in our hand to throw for him to go fetch. He’ll continue to play that game until he’s tired.

      It’s tough to turn him down when he gives that cute tilted head look.

      1. My niece’s puppy has the oddest way of playing with a tug-of-war toy. He’ll let you grab one end, he’ll let go of his end, then gently bite your hand until you let go. I can’t decide if it’s the dumbest or smartest approach ever.

  19. Sarah, I feel your pain. I am a classically educated lawyer, so by education and training, I love debate. I love the construction of one solid conclusion atop a solid axiom by chains of logic, to see its weaknesses and strengths, to have it tested by minds equal to my own, who critically examine each and every link in the chain and test it to destruction, perhaps with an occasional rhetorical flourish to add color, but which itself is not meant to persuade. A philosopher is like an engineer, but who works with ideas, not stone and steel.

    And who do I meet when I set out my towers of reasoning for testing? The parrots you describe, who utter nothing but irrelevant nonsense. They do not batter the doors or check the foundations of the tower, they throw popcorn or dandelion fluff at the architect who is standing nearby, looking puzzled, lint, downy feathers, and small bits of dust. Not only does no bombard shake the tower of interconnected ideas, nothing is even aimed at the tower. Only at me, and only such darts as cannot possibly hurt me.

      1. No congratulation is like self-congratulation!
        (Or self flagellation in the case of SJW’s. That’s how white men get in the club.)

  20. Here’s hoping the legions of Dresden fans do hear of this. The way to get these SJWa***rs to lose is to have their frothing idiocy pointed out to the larger world who come in and and look at it and say “WTF! are you off your meds?” or similar.

    We should probably nominate some other popular authors too next year to get the chance of coverage up.

  21. I’ve invested in heavily in Popcorn Futures.

    I see there being great demand in the future.

    1. Ah, so *you’re* the one driving up the price. *harrumpf!*

      Good thing I got a lock in on beer and lawn-chairs futures. Grills and hot dog futures are in heavy competition by some as-yet unknowns. It will be an epic battle, One for the Ages, Hunlings! Let’s invite all our friends and watch the fireworks from comfy back yards and porch swings.

      As a side note, not that I see it as being intended at all, but Sad Puppies has become sort of what the Hugos used to be, at least for me. That being a place I watch to see what good stories I might have missed in the past year. Stuff worth spending a few dollars on.

      1. I might be thrown into an unending laughter loop if Sad Puppies becomes an annual compilation, divorced from any concern for the Hugos, simply existing to provide a conversation about good stories folks read and wanted to recommend.

        I’d likely turn a lovely shade of blue from the wheezing if a statue made itself known and the fan community started voting on the Sad Puppies.

        If creators slapped the Sad Puppies logo on their books when nominated, and updated their press releases when they won…

        Well. If that happened, I’d surrender to the gale.

          1. We TOTALLY should.

            Send a signal to your evil cohorts in the ELoE?

            Might could turn the current slate into a big recommend list…

              1. Right now, the slate is a free recommendation. Spread the word and we’ll see what happens.

        1. Well, they can have the Hugo.
          We can award the Gernsback to the best fiction of the year irrelevant to social justice content.
          The Gernsback can be in the shape of a manatee…or maybe that’s going too far?

  22. However, being tired of the war doesn’t mean I’ll give up fighting. I can’t give up fighting because every time we stop applying a corrective, these people decide they’ve won the war and also that they were right all along. And THEN they take another step into crazyland. (Think cartoon character running middair.) And they are ALREADY not serious people.

    Those people will anyway, regardless of anything they hear or see or experience. It’s why I’ve given up arguing on the internet back in undergrad. (That and publicly stated political opinions were frowned on in the military). You don’t really reach other people (well, not those people) or their opinions. At best, you can test out an idea against unfamiliar arguments, or test the construction of arguments, and maybe change your own mind. But if you’ve run out of views you haven’t heard before, there’s not too many more mechanics to the game.

    1. Well, perhaps that is more pessimistic than warranted. After all, you can at least show people who are looking for sanity that they are not alone.

      And if you converse about something interesting, if it finds it’s way onto the internet, other people can find people wondering about the same things even years later.

      For example: I found *this* exchange today – someone else saw the need for specifying a metric when working with information theoretic entropy in thermodynamics! Other people have raised that objection and thought about these things!

    2. I suppose my point is: Be realistic about who you can really reach or whose mind you can really change/effect (and how, and why, and which topics do you want to dwell on in light of that informaton?).

  23. did a review of Neil Gaiman’s new book, Trigger Warnings. In the comments, we had this “gem”:

    “Trigger warnings allow people to have spaces that are safe from their trauma, not spaces that are safe in general. This actually allows people to manage genuine mental health issues in the real world. The title trivializes that, and the collection by extension does. I just can’t put my money behind that. Protecting the idea of having safe spaces for trauma victims is just more important to me than reading a few otherwise excellent stories.”

    THAT is the kind of mentality Sad Puppies exists to counter.

    1. That statement would actually make some amount of sense if A. Gaiman were somehow against places where people with genuine mental health issues could deal with them, as opposed to turning all of society into a mental health facility; or B. Trigger warning, like oppression, had not lost all meaning via overstretch

  24. Help!

    I was just editing the pages where I list people’s books on my WP site, adding a link to the Kindle reader software, and suddenly in mid preview, WP tells me my site is suspended! WTF?

    1. Pure speculation, but maybe someone reported you to WordPress for a nonexistent ToS violation out of sheer spite? (Disclaimer, I know nothing about

      1. I wonder. Having just woken up, my Site is back up. Haven’t even checked my e-mail yet. The stat’s bar is showing record numbers of hits, so yeah, some SJW unhappy about my comment on File 770 or something trying to silence me fits the profile. OR, I triggered some anti-spam think while putting up the amazon links. I’ll find out soon enough.

      2. The answer was in my inbox. Somehow I triggered the anti-spam bot while editing. They reviewed and put it back up. They didn’t say what exactly I did to do it.

          1. I could guess that it was something like editing two of my fixed pages and pasting the same link in them in short order – since that’s what I was doing. Although I edited and saved multiple times since the actual meat of the link got dropped out for some reason during the process.

  25. Eh, sour grapes. Just because they can’t write worth squat, they feel you need to be attacked. Knee jerk emotional jealousy rears its ugly head once again.

  26. Too many people live their entire young lives without actually having performed labor, nor being demanded to, and yet needing labor done. Since it is inconcievable that they should do without, they must therefore demand other people’s labor, and successfully demanding, come to believe they own it.

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