A Loss of Perspective – A Guest Post By Amanda Green

A Loss of Perspective – A Guest Post By Amanda Green


This weekend, the final Hugo ballot was revealed. In case you’ve been off-line, under a rock, deep in a cave or otherwise cut off from the internet, what is usually a rather ho-hum announcement from a fan perspective has taken on the characteristics of a farce. Accusations of ballot stuffing, fraud and worse have been flying, but only in one direction. The folks on the receiving end of the accusations are frankly sitting back shaking their heads and I don’t blame them. Heck, I’m doing the same thing.

You see, what happened is that conservatives made it onto the ballot. Worse, these conservatives are white and male. But the problem is that at least two of these so-called conservatives really aren’t – conservative, that is. But that doesn’t matter. Why? Because the evil overlord of the universe, Larry Correia, dared do what authors have been doing for years when it comes to the Hugos. He asked his friends and fans to vote for him. Then he suggested that they consider voting for other writers who happen to write entertaining fiction, not message fiction that hits us over the head with a hammer.

Each year at WorldCon, the Hugos are presented. It is a “big deal” for some in the field, mainly because of the cachet they seem to feel is still attached to the award. The problem, in my opinion at least, is that the award really isn’t that relevant any longer. The nomination process is flawed and is the determination of what is or is not eligible. Look at this year’s nominations for Best Novel. There are five “novels” in the field, including Larry Correia’s Warbound. But the fifth “novel” is anything but a single work, no matter what the committee decided. That “novel” is Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time. The last time I looked, WoT was comprised of 14 novels. Yet, the committee says it is a single work under the rules of the award.

So, my first question is this: if WoT is a single work, why isn’t Larry’s nomination for The Grimnoir Chronicles instead of for the third book of the series?

My next question is why aren’t those crying foul over Larry, Vox Day, and others being on the ballot also gnashing their teeth because of the vast body of work represented in WoT as compared to the other works in the category? And, yes, I know the answer. They are happy to let anyone but Larry win in the category because he refuses to apologize for being proudly cis-male, libertarian, gun owner, father, and the author of books people want to read because they are damned fun stories.

And that latter is something those screaming about Larry, Vox, Brad, et al., being nominated seem to forget matters when it comes to the Hugos. The Hugos are a popularity contest. Nothing more and nothing less. According to the Hugo rules, “Each member of the administering Worldcon, the immediately preceding Worldcon, or the immediately following Worldcon as of January 31 of the current calendar year shall be allowed to make up to five (5) equally weighted nominations in every category. “ Nowhere does it say that only authors, editors and publishers can nominate or vote for Hugo award winners. These rules specifically leave the voting open to fans, those folks who actually buy and read the works in contention. Not the “pros” who vote for their friends and fellow SJWs in the industry.

So, what did Larry do to bring down this latest attack by the GHHers and SJWs? He conducted Sad Puppies 2. He reminded folks that Warbound was eligible for a Hugo this year and asked that they consider voting for it. Despite what at least some of his detractors have alleged – and I really do have to wonder at their sanity for taking on a man who has already proven he can shred them with logic and facts and never break a sweat – he did not stuff the ballot box nor did he buy memberships for all of his friends and families and then vote for them. Yes, I have seen at least one post where they said they’d like to see the IP addresses of the votes for Warbound to see how many came from Larry’s computer. Even if Larry had considered doing such a thing, trust me, he’d be smart enough not to vote multiple times from the same IP address.

Making matters worse, at least in Larry’s detractors’ eyes, is the fact that he also listed other authors and recommended his fans consider voting for them. This “slate” has been the cause of much gnashing of teeth which, in its own way, is funny because this is exactly what others have done for years. Just as past winners have campaigned by “reminding” their readers to vote for them (check out last year’s winner for best novel. I’ll let you exercise your google-fu to find the different posts. But, to help you, the winning novel really was nothing but fan fiction for a sf series that first started in the 1960’s.)

What the whiners aren’t pointing out as they attack Larry is that he didn’t list one title per category, at least not for the major categories. In fact, going to his Hugo slate post on his blog, he never once said that his readers have to vote his way. What he did say was that the titles were his slate. He also noted that it was important to vote if you’ve paid for your WorldCon membership. But that, according to his detractors, was stuffing the ballot box.

My biggest issue in all this is that those who are yelling the loudest aren’t talking about the quality of writing. They aren’t discussing the number of books read. They aren’t even willing to admit that maybe people like Larry and Brad and others received enough votes to be included on the final ballot because readers finally stopped sitting on their hands and voted for authors they enjoy reading. No, these detractors have resorted to calling names and miscasting people. Why? Because they don’t fall into lock step with what the current politically correct mantra happens to be.

Instead of crying because authors who write books people enjoy reading – why else would someone supposedly as vile and evil as Larry be a multiple-time NYT best seller? – have made it onto the ballot, perhaps they ought to ask why more of their cadre weren’t? Of course, that might require some introspection, true introspection, and that is something these folks don’t do. They’d much rather condemn those who don’t agree with everything they say.

They aren’t asking why WorldCon is dying. If more than 5,000 people actually attend – real figures and not the inflated figures so many cons seem to put out – I’ll be surprised. Now, look at other cons, vibrant and healthy cons. Cons that have tens of thousands of fans attending. Those are the cons the literati of SFF – the SJWs and GHHers – hate. Why? Because they aren’t the cool kids there. But at WorldCon, just as with SFWA, they are the cool kids and what they say goes.

So, be prepared for the barbs to continue to fly because of the Hugo ballot. Those protests are the screams of terror as power slips from their fingers. Poor dears.

Or, as they say down here, Bless their hearts.

As for who to vote for, that’s up to each person who is eligible to vote. Me, I say vote for the works you enjoy reading because you enjoy them. That’s what the Hugos are all about, no matter what the other side says. Otherwise, there’d be a roomful of stuffy professors judging the writing skills of the authors. In the meantime, I have my popcorn, I’m in my comfy clothes and I’m ready to watch the show because, if the GHHers and SJWs aren’t careful, Larry will decide that it is really worth his while to respond – with facts and figures – to their accusations. That is when the real show will begin.

259 responses to “A Loss of Perspective – A Guest Post By Amanda Green

  1. Funny, I blogged on this today, too… The problem is, Larry may have single-handedly rescued the Hugos from a slow slide into obscurity, but they would rather perish than be associated with him. *eyeroll*

    I will read my material carefully, and vote based on that, not which authors I like personally, or, horrors, which authors I align with politically. Because it’s about the story, only the story!

  2. I am ecstatic that Larry, Brad, and others made it on to the ballot. I guess those puppies are happy now?

  3. Ive seen several people cry foul over the WOT as a complete work being nominated…but it is nearly always overshadowed by the next line of “OMG VOX DAY LARRY CORREIA RACISTSSSSSS”…

    Makes me wonder how much Tor, Harriet, and Brandon should thank Larry for providing them cover….

    • calling Larry a racist is probably the funniest thing ever. Vox brings it on himself with some of his rhetoric, whether he means it or not, but Larry doesn’t even come close to saying anything that deserves being called that.
      (And btw, what Vox says about other races is no more than his opponents say about whites, so, pot meet kettle. I don’t want any part of the argument since race AFAIC is largely a social construct — probably because I come from a country so mixed it doesn’t matter — but if I did, the only possible answer would be “A pox on BOTH your houses.” Not Vox’s only)

      • I’ve quick scanned some of his stuff. I think that he just likes to stir shit up with a REALLLLY short stick and doesn’t care who he pisses off..

      • … race AFAIC is largely a social construct …

        And isn’t it funny that most of the people who claim that “gender is a social construct” (it ain’t, not in the way they mean it) would argue hard about that line. Gender, which never blends except in the case of genetic abnormalities (when a man and a woman have babies, their babies are never* 50% man and 50% woman), is a social construct and never determines how you think or act. But race, which blends all the time (when a Caucasian man and a Korean woman, like my friends from Illinois, have babies, their babies are roughly 50% Caucasian-looking and 50% Korean-looking — and extremely cute!), is NOT a social construct, but a hard-and-fast rule that always determines how you act (ALL Asians are smart, ALL white people are racists…). Um, yeah, tell me another one.

        * Barring the aforementioned, extremely rare, genetic abnormalities.

        • Oh, yeah. I have read a book of essays in which the same author casually talked about a man becoming a woman or vice versa, and was indignant at a black passing as a white — which probably meant she was, in fact, something like seven-eighth white, because she could.

        • Eh, I think there are some pretty clear cases where gender is blurred and there’s nothing specifically genetic about it. (Apologies for wall of text below; Sarah, if you think this is too long or off topic, feel free to take it down.)

          One (and I think this is the more common one?) is when the various hormone levels aren’t quite synced up with fetal brain development; the end result is a brain wired for “male” or “female” (or oddly wired such that it doesn’t closely align with either) in a body that doesn’t match. I mean, the plumbing all works right, but the brain was expecting a different model of bathroom entirely … to strain a metaphor. My hypothesis is that many people who are transgender (more comfortable presenting as female even though their chromosomes are XY, or more comfortable being thought of by others as male even though their chromosomes are XX) fall into this camp. These folks, as far as I can tell, are less likely to talk about gender as a social construct because for them the issue is that their mental image of themselves doesn’t match the body they are in. It’s not unlike when you’ve been badly scarred or injured, and felt a major sense of loss when you realize that the person you physically used to be isn’t you anymore. Except they get that mismatched feeling all the time.

          The other case is where someone’s brain interprets gender roles as having to do with a particular context. This one’s fuzzier and I have no idea how common it is, but a person whose mental model works this way will feel themselves to be a girl if they’re doing activities that society considers feminine, e.g. arranging flowers in a vase or dressing up in a long dress for a dance event, and think of themselves as a guy when doing activities that society considers masculine, e.g. duck hunting or bringing a meeting to order. I understand that this is more of a mental model than anything else, but if someone’s wired to think that way — that is, if they have viewed gender identify for themselves and others in this light since as far back as they can remember — then for them, gender is by definition a “social construct” inasmuch as “masculine” or “feminine” activities vary a lot depending on what society you’re talking about.

          Now, for most people it’s certainly true that gender isn’t a social construct, but I can see how someone who thinks like the folks in camp two above would have trouble fitting in, and would have a hard time understanding how this isn’t an issue for most people.

  4. Heh, I didn’t even know about the Hugo nom til I visited Larry’s site, hoping to find a new installment of his L5R story. I never fail to be entertained by the tales he weaves and am reminded of the days I used to play the RPG. I am glad he and several other authors made it to the finals.

    And I’m far, far more likely to purchase the books he recommends, than any that these supposed literati say I should read. Why? Because he recommends good, entertaining stories, and when I buy fiction, that’s what I want to read.

  5. Good for Larry– Hope he wins… though not likely with that group.

  6. Christopher M. Chupik

    How could a bestselling, popular author with a large fanbase possibly have gotten a Hugo nomination?

    It must be a conspiracy.

    • Yes indeed. A *vast* conspiracy. 😉

      • I’m losing weight! Oh, wait. The OTHER conspiracy.

        • Good for you! I’ve stopped watching my carbs like I ought, and my weight is starting to creep up again.

          • Actually that was a joke. I’ve gained. Hormonal stuff I can’t do anything about and being too busy for the daily walk.It’s seriously trying my calm.

            • The cold, plus that whole bit I told you about learning that I can’t function properly on only 4 hours of sleep through the week any more kept me from getting my walks in during the winter. I’m trying to get back into that, and after I move, I’ll be joining the YMCA so I can swim a few nights a week.

              Though days like cleaning dad’s garage this past weekend, and running the backhoe the weekend before help. You wouldn’t think running a backhoe would use a lot of energy, until you realize that every time I had to move to a new spot, I had to haul my 300+lb carcass up to switch to the driver’s seat, then back to dig some more.

              • CombatMissionary

                I went through a phase recently where I dropped a pound a day for about three weeks straight. My wife and some other ladies noticed and asked my secret. I said, “Diet control. High protein, low carbs, no sugar. I eat lots of kippered herring; avoid bread, rice, potatoes, etc.; also, run two miles and walk three every day.”
                They all replied, “NOT INTERESTED!”

          • For some reason lugging boxes of books up two flights of stairs is not enough for me to lose weight. I need the daily 4 mile walk.

      • Hey, I resemble that remark more than I care to! 🙂 I’m working on it.

      • They’re trying to plunder it, like pirates, so it’s “Avast! conspiracy”. (RUNS)

        • What have you got against the AVAST! antivirus program?

        • Nah that’s an anti virus program. 😛

          • You and Emily are in SO much trouble on Talk Like a Pirate Day. 😛

            • Oh, some are fond of red wine and some are fond of white,
              And some are all for dancing by the pale moonlight,
              But rum alone’s the tipple and the heart’s delight
              Of the old, bold mate of Henry Morgan.

              Oh, some are fond of Spanish wine and some are fond of French,
              And some’ll swallow tay and stuff fit only for a wench,
              But I’m for right Jamaica till I roll beneath the bench,
              Says the old, bold mate of Henry Morgan.

              Oh, some are for the lily and some are for the rose,
              But I am for the sugar cane that in Jamaica grows,
              For it’s that that makes the bonny drink to warm my copper nose,
              Says the old, bold mate of Henry Morgan.

              Oh, some are fond of fiddles and a song well sung
              And some are all for music for to lit upon the tongue,
              But mouths were made for tankards and for sucking at the bung,
              Says the old, bold mate of Henry Morgan.

              Oh, some that’s good and godly ones they hold that it’s a sin
              To troll the jolly bowl around and let the dollars spin,
              But I’m for toleration and for drinking at an inn,
              Says the old, bold mate of Henry Morgan.

  7. So on one forefoot, we have the literary SFF establishment that believes the Hugos are about time-in-service to the craft, about books, firms, and comics that espouse uplifting and improving message, and about writing centuries-old wrong (because no woman writer of color won the Hugo prior to 1920). On the other forefoot, we have people who want to read and watch great stories and will tolerate a little “uplift” if its well padded by interesting characters, cool settings, and great plot, and prefer to vote with their dollars, yen, pounds, Euros, rupees, et cetera. And back by the tail are the people who have yet to write and publish any SFF but still know who should win. Am I missing anyone?

  8. Christopher M. Chupik

    A typical comment from Twitter: “There must be a nontrivial number of reactionary, right-wing tools in fandom, if Larry Correia is still a bestseller.” Remember: we drive them crazy just by existing.:-)

    • I’m really OK with that.

      Of course, I’m apparently an International Minion of Hate.

      • Christopher M. Chupik

        Of course, now that we’ve shown that we exist and we vote, I expect the left-wing of fandom to become even more shrill and hysterical in their denunciations of us. You thought the last year was wild? You ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

      • Do we get membership badges for being an International Minion of Hate? I like (dare I say, I revel, delight, cackle over) the idea of my mere existence causing apoplexy, chaos, panic and noodly rage with no further effort on my part.

        I reckon to be so despised, we’re doing something right…

        • If you draw the Devil-Horn Smiley Face from the Monster Hunters books onto a shirt, it would probably work well enough.

          • *rubs chin thoughtfully* This is true, but I’d much rather buy such a patch or pin.

            And besides, if Larry came up with an IMoH (IMH?) badge it’s an additional reason for me to give him more of my money when I have it to spare.

            • Well, yeah. That was more in the line of a temporary measure.

            • My order of Baen Bar Fly challenge coins just arrived. Got three in order to have a couple of spares. I mention it because it’s well known that the illiteratti detest and despise Baen, so a coin with Baen’s exploding space ship on one side and the Bar Fly symbol on the other ought to drive them nuts.
              My next purchase will be a set of similar challenge coins from Larry with Monster Hunter International symbols on them. He recently announced their availability on his blog.
              Will carry one or the other with me at all times and use it as a card keeper during my regular poker games. Seems at least as appropriate as the NRA coin I’ve been using.

              • Update: looks like the MHI challenge coins are all gone, but Larry’s web site has MHI badges and logo ball caps which ought to accomplish the same thing if one were so inclined.

              • Heqq, just the custom of challenge coins by itself ought to drive the hysterics to hysterics, with its connection to military customs.


            • Birthday girl

              Yes. I would buy a MHI badge to put on my range bag.

            • I’m seeing black T-shirts with “International Minion of Hate” on the front and a Howard-Taylor-esqe picture on the back of a cowering snowflake facing an obvious Heavy weilding an absurdly large flame-thrower. Something like the Maxim 37 poster from a few years back.

              • I like this idea. Because I’m evil and hatey and bleeding ‘bigotry’ and whatever else the Snowflake Brigade would like to claim I am.
                …I’m suddenly reminded of that news clip where this guy got so sick of (actual) snow he used a flamethrower. Zombie Apocalypse-style, sickly green snowflakes, vs Flamethrower, and “I see a target rich environment” underneath?

                When I can see again I’ll try drawing that.

                • Maybe we can have a whole series featuring different stereotypes weilding the flamethrower. Hispanic guy with a sombrero, white dude with a monocle, black man with fried chicken (I’ve never understood that. How it is racist to say blacks like fried chicken? Who the hell DOESN’T like fried chicken?), woman dual-weilding torpedoes…

                  • I don’t get it either. Why is fried chicken supposed to be ‘racist?’ I’d gathered that fried chicken was a cuisine of the Southern US, going by my Little House on the Prairie cookbook. Frankly, a meal of watermelon, fried chicken and cornbread sounds quite yummy, and strikes me as a comfort food menu. And I tried googling up the ‘why’, and I still don’t get it. It’s food, supposedly with negative connotations on stereotypes. It’s food. So because it’s a negative stereotype, black people shouldn’t eat it? Even if they like it? Because NOOO RACISM.

                    Oh, for funsies, I heard that when Obama visited Japan, apparently the KFC fast-food chains there commemorated it by putting his face on collectible items. Because the Japanese love them collectible items. And they were quite puzzled why Americans were saying they were very insensitive and racist when they had no intention of being offensive and they were indeed, paying him a compliment, because Obama collectible.

                    • So because it’s a negative stereotype, black people shouldn’t eat it? Even if they like it? Because NOOO RACISM.

                      Oh, my, no. White people just aren’t allowed to talk about blacks and fried chicken in the same paragraph. Around these parts, you can’t find a majority black community without a Popeye’s Fried Chicken (KFC is good stuff, but I’ll take Popeye’s Chicken and Cajun Red Beans and Rice over KFC almost any day you choose).

                      There actually IS some connection between black people liking fried chicken and/or watermelon and SOME white people being assholes by taunting them as if it were a bad thing, but it’s another one of those things that got blown out of proportion, and now any mention is racist.

                    • The tradition, when Black workers weren’t allowed into the restaurants, was the “Shoebox Lunch” – A meal consisting of things easily eaten without utensils – often purchased at the back door of the restaurant. Fried Chicken, bread, and some kind of fruit would be typical. And thus Fried Chicken and Watermelon became associated as something black people ate.

                    • It was used in Birth of the Nation to show that them uppity blacks were getting above themselves — a black legislator was eating fried chicken in one scene of the Reconstruction.

                      Not because he had the poor taste to continue indulging in low-brow tastes while in a position of authority, because, as has been observed in this thread, chicken was expensive. And most chicken was gamey, stringy, old bird that had stopped laying — the stuff you make casserole or soup out of. For fried chicken, you want tender young chicken, and hence a lot of money.

                    • There’s nothing quite so provincial as a vileprog.

                      The other day I saw an ad (which is rare for me) for KFC where a mother was sitting at the table with her family extolling the benefits of the KFC meal deal. The odd thing is that the family was black. So was that ad racist? It certainly was gender normative. Why are the snowflakes up in arms? Does KFC make the right donations?

                    • …You mean there wasn’t a blowup about the ‘traditionalist’ slant of the ad? Or about the mom’s color of skin?!

                      (looks out the yard to see if a unicorn is munching on the lawn)

        • I’m not quite sure. I just made a comment over at Larry’s blog that seemed to be a pretty big hit and the title appears to have been bestowed upon me or something.

          As far as I’m concerned, as long as you adhere to the principles of the Union of Hate (mostly that special snowflakes aren’t that special), you’re in. But that’s just me.

        • Patrick Chester

          Badges?! We don’t need no stinkin’ badges….

      • Hey, I’m even more international. I think. Not quite sure if I count as a minion though. I like Monster Hunters, Grimnoir chronicles not as much. 🙂

        • I think it’s more about “hate” than liking all of Larry’s fiction so you can probably be included. Particularly if you’re prepared to smack the special snowflakes down and make them cry. 😀

    • Wish I could reply: They might even be in the majority. I recommend you RageQuit the fandom.

  9. Wasn’t Larry’s whole point to show how irrelevant the Hugo’s are because it’s so easy for an author with a sufficient following to get nominated?

    Either way though, Warbound is a damn good book. I suspect it won’t win, mostly because books I really love never win the awards (possible exception of the Prometheus Award). I agree with some of these about how ridiculous it is that WoT is eligible for a Hugo as a single novel. Honestly, it’s stupid, but thems the rules after all.

    Some of the outrage has been rather comical. It was fine for Scalzi to ask for votes, because he lines up closer to them politically, but not for Larry. Hell, even Scalzi notes that nothing wrong happened. Oh, he’s a condescending prick about it, but that’s just Scalzi for you. It’s his default setting (and not the “easy” setting he’s so fond of).

    Yes, Larry posted his nominations. He told no one to vote his way. It’s no different than making an endorsement or something. Except that Larry has the wrong views.

    • I must respectfully disagree about your objection to WoT’s eligibility. But then, I am rather biased. I’ve been a Robert Jordan fanboy for almost 20 years, and IMHO WoT is…I pause to gather my breath in preparation to flee the mob who will no doubt seek my head after I say this…the single greatest fantasy series/story ever written. Bar none.

      I love Larry’s stuff, and I nominated it, but WoT gets my vote, all the way. Even if I didn’t hold it in as high esteem as I do, this is its one and only chance to receive recognition, as Mr. Rigney is dead and no more books will be written in his world. His work is so richly deserving that it would almost be a crime not to vote for it.

      Again, just MHO.

      • That’s cool. While I disagree about whether the whole series should be eligible, I’m not that bent out of shape about it. Hey, the rules allow it, so I’m kind of out of luck.

        Unlike some people these days, I don’t get bent out of shape because something happens within the rules that I don’t like. 😀

    • Can Warbound be read as a stand-alone? It’s book three, right?

      • Personally, I don’t think so. Book three builds on the events of the first two books, which is going to hurt Larry with people who haven’t read the first two.

        Of course, if he can include the first two in the packet, all’s well. 🙂

    • I’ve never read WOT because they just didn’t sound very interesting to me when I read the blurbs. But one of the biggest complaints I’ve always heard about the novels (sorry books) is that it is really just one big novel broken up into different bindings, and that it was never finished.

      I don’t know much about the rules concerning how the awards are given, because I don’t really care about the awards. Personally I have found that an award winning novel is less likely to be an entertaining read than a non award winning novel, so I tend to avoid them unless there is something mitigating that, such as recommendations from people I trust, or the fact that I already know the author.

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  11. Wait, I’m confused. For years and years, I’ve see creators encouraging their blog readership to vote in the Hugos. Scalzi does it. The Schlock Mercenary guy does it. The Foglios did… until they had to ask their fans to STOP so the graphic novel category didn’t just become the yearly Girl Genius Hugo.

    Why is this only a problem and a scandal now?

    • Well, duh. It’s because people were asking for votes for Good and Approved Works before.

      • This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. And I’ve chaperoned proms.

        • I’ve seen it before. I read with my own eyes a complaint that EMILY’s List was being hit by the same law that affected all organizations of its type — which law, it explained, was necessary because EMILY’s List was doing good things, the other organizations were doing bad things.

        • I’ve found that putting high school students cosmetically altered into the villain role creates very good villains, though unfortunately you do have to deal with the reality that it will never penetrate that they lost because they were wrong.

        • You are a far braver woman than I am, GeekLady. Far braver. *doffs hat and bows*

    • Larry Correia pointed out what was happening, described how it was done, demonstrated how it worked, used it to benefit someone other than an Atwood clone, and added sad puppies to make it more memorable. He had to pay.

  12. I popped over to MHN yesterday and followed a commenter link back to one of the dissenters. (Who obnoxiously no-linked Vox and Larry. One thing to say I’m not going to send traffic, another to say I’m going to send it, but shortcut the stat count. And it’s just posturing, anyway, if enough people followed that link to MHN to even blip Larry’s stats I’d be shocked [shocked, I tell you!] Anyroad.)

    The vitriol and unsupported accusations… It must be exhausting to go through life with that much bitterness. I occasionally bemoan the polarization and blanket denunciation from our side, but we’re the souls of discretion and gentle politeness by comparison. (Which I’ve known.) And all this angst and anger and hate over — the Hugos?? *snort-guffaw*

    More significantly, Vox feeds off of it and it makes Larry giggle, so they’ve accomplished what?

    The one chilling point, “I’ll fight to oppose” sort of thing: magnanimously noting they’d accept Toni in their exalted presence if she’d denounce Larry and the like. Toni will have her own response, but for my part — I’ll watch the exalted company burn first.

  13. Perhaps next year we should have a promo post listing everything Huns have done that’s Hugo eligible.

  14. Here’s what we were up against:

    Alastair Reynolds made the point that the Hugo’s are becoming the battle of the fan boiz (I’ve paraphrased). I think a panel of professional critics should be used to balance out this problem.

    Comment in Scalzi’s blog.

    • Oh, yes. Professional critics. (SPITS) “Because the Hugos aren’t useless ENOUGH!”
      World Fantasy, chosen by the “experts” lowers print runs. You figure it.

      • Hah! Silmultaneity! You spit I blech, the consensus is clear on professional critics.

      • Pity. Patricia McKillip’s done some nice work.

      • “Newbery Award” on a children’s book pretty much guarantees that it’s going to be depressing, unreadable tripe.

        • Ahh. I remember when the Newberry Award meant something. Like, just before I was in the market for Newberry reads. “Half Magic” won a Newberry Award, but I can’t find it in the list. “A wrinkle in Time” won, and so did a bunch of others, not all of whom are sad. I wonder when the tide turned.

          • Ah, yes – I so fondly recall so many of the books that I loved which were Newberry Award winners … I suspect the rot set in around the end of the 1960s. But Newberry used to be a guarantee of quality, of good writing, more or less uplifting story-lines, or at least – amusing, genial and mostly wholesome and relatable. I speak as someone of plain old white-bread American background, whose family maintained a toe-hold in the working middle-class and resident in urban neighborhoods where you didn’t need an armed body guard after dark, and abuse of substances was something you read about in the newspaper.

          • Ah a wrinkle in time. I used to have all 3 books in that series. Or was it 4? Been a long time I forget

          • Oh my! Half Magic! I remember that book, I loved it so much I stole it from my sister, which was a bad thing because it was a library book.

            The bit with holding up the illustration of the teacher to the light would be lost in an eBook.

        • What about the caldecott medal?

    • Yes, a panel of ‘professional critics’ (blech) is definitely what’s needed to reign in the unbridled enthusiasm of a bunch of fans. Voting. On a fan award.

      Elitist. Idiots.

    • Rob Crawford

      Save us from “professional critics”. Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach. Those that can’t teach, criticize.

    • Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard

      Stupid. The Hugos started out as the “most popular SF & F” not the “best SF & F”. The morons want to change the Hugos to be the “best” (whatever that means).

      • Christopher M. Chupik

        I’m sure there are lots of mainstreamers today wondering: “What the heck are the Hugo Wards anyhow?” If nothing else, Larry has raised their profile.

        • Life can be described through bad H P Lovecraft fan-fic:

          Hugo Wards were originally developed to contain and hold harmless conservative and classic liberal writers by mesmerizing them and forcing them into stasis because of the strange geometries their minds occupy (See also, Elder Signs). The Hugo Wards became less effective as the newer, unaligned classic liberal and Austrian economic based writers began to arrive, (See also, Indie, and Hounds of Tindalos).

      • Most Popular with Right-Thinking People

    • Funny how it wasn’t an issue so long as Larry and VD weren’t the one’s doing it. Now that Larry and Vox are both nominated for Hugo’s, suddenly there’s something untoward about this.

      Unfortunately, since the Hugo Awards are about popular science fiction, and not “best use of LGBTQWTFBBQ in a novel” awards, they need to sit down and chill out.

    • Professionals? That didn’t help the Nebulas from sliding into irrelevance.

      • Does that award still exist? I can’t remember seeing any books with the ‘nebula winner’ blurb on it for years. Last time was probably in the mid-90’s or so.

        • Consider yourself fortunate. Every Nebula award winner I’ve tried reading lately sucked so bad, light couldn’t escape.

          • Okay. Presumably they don’t sell all that well, considering none seems to get as far as the very sparse shelf space reserved for English language science fiction and fantasy in those few local stores which have that. It’s mostly just the best sellers.

            • Of the 2014 nominees listed on Wikipedia, I’ve heard of Neil Gaiman and Anne Leckie (the latter only because she was also nominated for a Hugo…I will soon forget her again, I’m sure).

              The Nebulas appear to have gone around the bend about 2010 or so, coincidentally (?) the time that Scalzi took the helm at SFWA.

              Before that I’ve at least heard of the majority of the nominees, and read many of them. After that… nope. Maybe one or two familiar names, but that’s it.

              • I didn’t know that there was a difference between the Nebulas and the Hugos.

                Learn something new every day…

              • Ann Leckie’s book is outstanding. I reviewed it at Shiny Book Review, and didn’t expect much. But it is phenomenal. In my opinion it was the single best military SF novel of 2013, and it wasn’t even _marketed_ as military SF. (Why, I haven’t a clue. That’s clearly what it is.)

                If I had a vote at WorldCon, which I don’t, it would go to Leckie because while I love Larry Correia’s work, he’d be my #2 choice behind Leckie. (And it’s a _debut novel_. I haven’t a clue how a woman this talented only just got this over. Maybe she’s been trying for years. She has the goods.)

                I enjoyed the Wheel of Time series a lot, but it doesn’t belong on the Hugo ballot as a single entity. I’d be OK with it getting a special award for something along the line of “a unique event in fantasy” and with that the widow of Robert Jordan getting a huge award of her own, for keeping things going after her husband died. (She edited the whole, blessed thing. She deserves many awards, IMO.)

                So in my opinion, I’d go with Leckie. But I’d not have a problem with Larry Correia winning, either. (I do have a problem with WoT getting it, but it probably will. Too many memories there, and when a beloved dead author competes against living authors, no matter _how_ good they are, usually the living authors lose.)

      • Nathan…far as I’m concered…outside of one or two of them…most awards shows are inherently irrelevant.

  15. The Hugos have been a silly award for some time, but it looks like the “in crowd” are doing their best to destroy it utterly. Their resemblance to Jacobins becoming more each day.

    Puppies rejoice.

  16. Pingback: About those Hugos. » Brain Flogging

  17. Oddly, the person both writers seem to demonize most came out with a well-reasoned argument that it wasn’t ballot-stuffing or invalid and that the works should be judged on their merits. Seemed like a pretty class act to me.

    • Would be if the person didn’t impute to Larry things he did not say — i.e. Larry never attacked him except in defense of Larry’s and my editor whom that particular author took completely and deliberately out of context and interpreted backwards in order to malign.
      Can you claim class after you’ve been trolling the gutter for some attention? I know he’s really good at the virgin whore act “Why, I never did do that” but do people still believe in that?

      • Yes: he’s positioned himself as the reasonable one. Basically, epic-level concern trolling, with occasional forays outside of passive-aggressive into outright aggressive when it comes to his pet causes. And his fans eat it up. *shrug* After his treatment of Toni (which, it should be pointed out, he moderated) I’m disinclined to treat with him over anything. That said, apart from the back-handed compliments to Larry, that particular post was fairly reasonable. But then, he’s got that reasonable image to maintain.

      • Hey, credit where credit’s due, Sarah. In this instance, at least, he’s taking the classy route. Though I noticed a few not-very-subtly concealed barbs, the main of his statement is worthy of, if not praise at least appreciation.

    • Considering he couldn’t exactly slam them for doing something he’d been doing in the past, how is it a class act? And, as Sarah noted, a class act doesn’t impute comments to another that the person didn’t make. Nor does a class act, when it is pointed out they “misspoke” refuse to admit it or to apologize. Nor does a class act set out on a path that could destroy another’s professional life just because that person doesn’t agree with you politically or fall into lockstep with you on your causes.

    • FBC, see my length reply further down the thread.

    • His “class act” is turned on and off at will. Scalzi’s hypocrisy is what drove me off his blog years ago. He’s smart enough to self-realize he is doing it too.

  18. ” Worse, these conservatives are white and male. But the problem is that at least two of these so-called conservatives really aren’t – conservative, that is. ” Amanda wrote.

    Aren’t two of them really not white, too? IIRC both Mr. Correia and Mr. Day check the Hispanic box.

    • Yeah, but obviously they’re “white Hispanics” since that’s the phrase of choice when a Hispanic person does something the left wants to vilify.

      • Exactly. And, if you look at the comments of those dissing them, you will see that their ethnicity — Larry’s and Vox’s — is dismissed as something they made up or claim only when it is convenient to do so. I’d roll my eyes right now but the cat’s in a playful mood and it’s so hard to get them clean after she’d batted them around the floor for a bit. 😉

        • What’s particularly amusing is how those dissing them seem to be almost universally paler than I am, and I’m a full-blooded Crackahonkee.

          • Yeah. And I just had a troll show up on my FB feed to ask if Vox had apologized yet for basically being a bad man. Then the commenter went on to diss all right wing, middle class fanboys playing politics and then claiming to be Christian (I think I remember that line of crap right). And, in doing so, she proves my point that the other side doesn’t give a rat’s ass if the book in question is good. All they care about is that the author isn’t one of the “cool kids”.

            • Yet, if we did that, we’re horrible human beings.

              Of course, we also quickly run out of stuff to read, but that’s a different matter entirely. 🙂

          • Crackahonkee? never heard of that tribe.

            • Christopher M. Chupik

              Isn’t that Elizabeth Warren’s people?

              • No, Warren hails from the Honkecracka tribe. Back in the day they lived across the lake from the Crackahonkee. There’s still much bad blood between them from the Honkecracka tradition of paddling across the lake in the dead of night to deposit their women amongst their mortal enemies, which resulted in the Crackahonkee braves returning the favor – and the women – the next night. Honkecracka women are powerful ugly and not terribly bright. In fact, the literal translation of the Honkecracka word for “woman” is “south end of north-bound buffalo.”

                • Actually, there was a little more distance involved between the Honkecracka and the Crackahonkee. While the bad blood portrayed in popular culture is indeed accurate, my people completely understood why the Honkecracka kept depositing their women in our lands, just as their men understood the great lengths we went to in order to return them.

                  The bad blood stirred up because they could have at least not been dicks and dropped the women off with some of the other tribes in the region. I mean, come on! Couldn’t they take the freaking hint!

            • You wouldn’t, since I made it up. 🙂

          • “I’m a full-blooded Crackahonkee.”

            I’m proud to say I’m a Native American.

            I was born in Indiana. 😉

    • I believe Vox claims both Hispanic and Asian ancestry.

      • Or maybe also some Pacific Islander? I read some blog post of his where he talked about it, but it’s been a while. All I can remember that it was some pretty thorough mix.

        • It’s fun to google for pictures of the people slagging Correia for “racism”. Thus far I’m turning up nothing but “pasty white”.

          • These are the people with something to prove; they are also the ones who fetishize anyone who comes into the genre with any sort of ethnic cred. Whether real, or imagined.

            • They’re whiter than Elizabeth Warren, and that takes some doing.

            • Maybe I should submit my short stories from here on in with a cover letter that identifies me as a full-blooded Crackahonkee?

              Since I’m unpublished as it is, what can it hurt? 😀

  19. Christopher M. Chupik

    My prediction: Ancillary Justice will win, because they need to “send a message” to Larry. Also, the rules for nomination will be changed so this can’t happen again.

  20. Arwen Riddle

    My, my, the next few months are going to be fun, especially if Larry responds to the attacks that will be made. I’ll have to stock up on popcorn.

  21. FBC: Earlier in the year, Scalzi used his web megaphone to “tee up” on Toni Weisskopf. He did so with a rather poorly-constructed straw man argument. He also side-swiped Baen authors in the process.

    Beneath Scalzi’s polished magnanimity there is always an ulterior motive. It might take a year or two of careful observation to begin seeing it, but once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

    For example, note how Scalzi very explicitly dog-whistled to his readers, about ranking certain authors bellow “no award” come final Hugo ballot time. Note also how he said Correia and I “teed up” on him with our blogs; when neither Correia nor I did any such thing.

    Many of us who publish with Baen were critical of the way in which Scalzi was critical of Toni Weisskopf, but we didn’t “tee up” on the man for no reason. Presumably if we had “teed up” on Patrick Nielsen-Hayden — as Scalzi “teed up” on Weisskopf — Scalzi would have had a thing or two to say about it. And rightly so.

    As it stands, Scalzi elected to fire a broadside at our editor — an unearned broadside. A few of us returned fire in the blog comments here at Sarah’s site, and elsewhere. But neither Correia nor I “teed up” on Scalzi out of the blue, just for kicks.

    Finally, Scalzi must necessarily defend a raw popularity vote because he himself has benefited explicitly from a raw popularity vote on more than one occasion. He has a very large social media footprint. His Hugo nominations and wins are the result of that, as much or even moreso than his actual fiction. He cannot decry one author exercising his footprint (Correia) without damning himself (Scalzi) in the process. So he defends.

    With some very clever language about how voters ought to scuttle the Sad Puppies 2 campaign when filling out their ballots before August.

    • Christopher M. Chupik

      If they want to waste their votes with “No Award”, that’s their problem.

    • Scalzi is currently on his best behavior now that Fox TV have optioned Red Shirts for tv series adaptation. He has tempered his criticism of Anti-Chris Rupert Murdoch due to the steady paycheck that’s going to be coming.

  22. multitasking response:

    1. “Fountains of Mercy”? I need more info on this title because even to I went to TRXed’s web presence I didn’t immediately see anything about it…and I am supposed to be working.

    2. WoT 14 book best novel-I haven’t read it, but my understanding is that if no single volume of a multi-volume work has been nominated, it’s okay to nominate the whole thing…I don’t know if it’s worth it for WoT because I haven’t read any of it and I still have to read v. 2 of Larry’s Grimnoire before I read Warbound.

    3. You should have heard the squeeing when TC (senior spouse) read the nomination list…he is a big fan of you rabble rousers (so am I).

    Enjoy the show…I am (or would, if it wasn’t so bloody time consuming)


  23. As for Jordan’s Wheel of Time, that’s unbelievable that it would be nominated. Its really quite bad – I read every book so its not like I have high standards. Brandon Sanderson actually did a pretty good job of putting it to bed in the final two titles – titles that skirted the edge of improving the series’ style without utterly embarrassing Jordan – but since his other work is still better it would be silly to award him for it.

    • I’m still missing the part where the Hugos were no longer supposed to be science fiction awards. The Waste of Time is not science fiction by any conceivable stretch of the most ductile imagination.

      (However, it is one novel. A novel, my lords and ladies, is a work of narrative fiction above a certain length, containing a beginning, a middle, and an end. The Waste is narrative fiction; it is above a certain length, for any reasonable value of ‘certain’, and most unreasonable values; it has precisely one beginning, one end, and one interminable, sprawling, fat-arsed middle. The fact that it was chopped up into umpteen pieces so Tor could make more money off it is irrelevant to the fact that, structurally, it is a single long story. As witness to which, I cite all the hundreds of reader reviews on Amazon of the middle volumes, complaining that in 800 pages of endless wittering, not even a single subplot got resolved. ‘To be continued’ is not an ending, and a book that goes from ‘To be continued’ #8 to ‘To be continued’ #9 is not a novel.)

      • I won’t turn this into total offtopic hijacking other than to note that several volumes deliberately spun in circles to avoid advancing plot. ** kaching **

        • If you really want to hear Tom in full spat about this topic, read this:

          • Meanwhile, having taken years to wrest myself from my metier of short works, I may now be perpetrating trilogy myself. . . .

            • Thanks for the link … that is EXACTLY how a simple story metamorphoses into a trilogy and beyond. You come up to the top of the hill, and look down and see … so much more. I came up about halfway thru what would be the first book of my Trilogy, realized there was so much MORE that I simply had to include in the story. So many secondary characters with fascinating stories and experiences. So I sliced the first big story into thirds, and then wrote three more (the first two had to be sliced into halves because I had only got up to the heroine’s first husband and… never mind). Now I am into the fourth story set into the time of the Trilogy and about one of the minor characters, and I haven’t even got to the Rockies yet…

      • “I’m still missing the part where the Hugos were no longer supposed to be science fiction awards. The Waste of Time is not science fiction by any conceivable stretch of the most ductile imagination.”

        Neither is Warbound, well I actually haven’t read it, but the other in the series, called alternately The GRIMNOIR chronicles or Hard MAGIC are not science fiction.

        • The Grimnoir books actually straddle the line. The argument could be made that the “magic” is actually an expression of the perfectly natural capabilities of the…source of said magic. If you haven’t read the books I don’t want to spoil them for you, but the case can be made that there’s nothing supernatural about any of it. Just Clarkeian(sp?) (sufficiently advanced, though not exactly technology).

  24. Christopher M. Chupik

    Someone at Tor.com accused Larry of being “pro-government welfare”. Needless to say, Larry’s reply was priceless.:-D

  25. Haven’t read all the comments yet, so apologize if this is repetitive.

    “why aren’t those crying foul over Larry, Vox Day, and others being on the ballot also gnashing their teeth because of the vast body of work represented in WoT as compared to the other works in the category?”

    Umm…they are. Have been for days.

    As to why the entire Grimnoir Chronicles weren’t nominated? Maybe because Larry asked his peeps to just nominate Warbound, and that’s it? They could easily have nominated the entire series, had they wished to. Unless one of the earlier books had been nominated before…they weren’t were they?

    There’s plenty to mock about the brouhaha going on without inventing imaginary controversies. 🙂 Seriously.

    • If they have been crying about WoT, and I was talking about those going out of their way to attack Larry and the others, I hadn’t seen it. Yes, there were others questioning it, but I hadn’t seen the usual suspects doing it. As for Grimnoir, it is my understanding — and I could be wrong, something I will admit — Larry asked about the three books being listed and was told that it couldn’t be done. Again, I could be wrong and, no, I wasn’t trying to invent anything. Yeah, I know it was said tongue-in-cheek but having just had one of the other side whining and moaning on my facebook wall, I’m not in the mood. (shrug)

      • Larry asked and was told that since the nominations were for Warbound, that’s what got nominated.

        Basically, if we had nominated the entire series, it would have been nominated. Since we just nominated a single book, that’s all that got listed.

        Oh well. We can keep that in mind for next time…unless they change the rules.