No Man’s Land (all three volumes) is up for pre-order.
And I suppose because I’m me, and I write what I write, you’ll ask yourselves: But is this a libertarian system of government in these worlds? Or perhaps a revolution against a tyrannical system?
Well — squirms — no. No, it’s not. Though it is, in one case, a liberty-inclined system.
Look, I remember people getting very upset at me over Witchfinder, because a libertarian shouldn’t write a monarchy much less a monarchy with hereditary ordained monarchs, where the land and the king are one.
Head thumps desk. I pointed out this was a magical monarchy. I mean it’s supposed to be from King Richard, okay. Magic is how they roll and–
Look at ceiling. Kicks pebbles. Well, that sort of does it, doesn’t it, because No Man’s Land has not one but TWO monarchies. And neither of them is magical, not really.
The libertarians would drum me out if there were a small l libertarian party and frankly if the individualists could organize long enough to excommunicate me.
Or, on the other hand, hold up a little. Because all that is not as it seems.
Because, well — waves at the crowd gathering around. Marks the rocks they’re holding. Raises hands in the look ma, no hands pose — look, at least one of the monarchies is not one as such.
No, never mind, neither of them is.
Take Elly — please, no seriously, how did a nice woman like me end up with this crazy world? — while technically one of my main characters — Brundar Mahar, King, Healing Magician, rescuer of babies, eater of sweets — is king of the whole world and probably a couple million souls, the truth is things are… complicated.
Right at the beginning of the book, you find his sire talking about ambassadors, and if you’re like me when I first got this world in my head, you tilt your head kind of sideways and go “Aroo? Isn’t there only one polity? Okay, and the enemy? As far as these people are concerned, where are ambassadors coming from? Before the guy from the 25th century drops in?”
Well, it’s complicated. Brundar is king. His line has been kings for … a few thousand years. But… King is perhaps a bit high flung for the job.
You see, Elly is barbarous. Brundar’s ancestors have been “kings” because that’s the only system they’d ever seen, while enslaved by the enemy — Draksalls — but for thousands and thousands of years there were so few people actually settled — most were nomadic hunter gatherers and drastically … individualistic. Their largest unit of normal residence if the family. But they have bonds to those of their blood, which I chose to translate as clans. And clan leaders, by virtue of being able to call for help for you if you get in serious trouble, have certain rights of negotiating for your and such.
In the last thousand years or so, their efforts at convincing people to settle (they’ve been settled for thousands of years) have started gaining momentum. More and more people are farmers, and merchants and there are leagues.
But their model (their founders erased all history and started them as tabula rasa) is nomad clans. So they have… guilds. That’s a name. Guilds and associations, and argle-bargling associations. All of them filled with highly individualistic, prone to argument and duel people.
The king is actually, mostly, a warlord. He leads the armies against the enemy, ably assisted by four other people/lines who have also been settled and working at the civilizational project for millennia. Getting troops and supplies for those, and keeping their world from being invaded, keeping them from being enslaved again is the most important, if not the whole job. (The secondary job is keeping duels down. And minor wars between clans, associations and such. I mean, otherwise he’d have no population.)
For these he must argue, discuss, convince, beg, seduce and sometimes duel clan leaders and heads of other groups.
So he’s basically the head of the circus. Or the main lunatic in the planetary madhouse. (I suddenly have a much higher appreciation for Brundar, brat that he is. And his parent who was insane. I think this would make anyone insane. What a job!)
No they are not representative. To be representative, they would need to be way more organized and collectivized.
How they got there was sometime in the 21st century (Wanna speed it up Elon? I figure you’d have something to do with it) someone comes up with a way to teleport through space. I’m not going to call it worm holes, because I don’t think it is, but you’re free to think it is whatever you want.
It took spaceships, getting to orbit, and then… the ship could translate…. elsewhere, by coordinates and … well, the first ships didn’t take time in account as a coordinate. So sometimes ships simply disappeared.
People being people they nicknamed them schrodingers. Because no one knew what happened to the people that went up in them and… disappeared.
Well, you’re saying, and crossing your arms, (and I note you’ve put the rocks down. Thank you. I realize a lot of places stone lunatics. I’m glad you’re refraining.) NO ONE WOULD GO UP IN THEM IN THAT CASE.
Oh, are you for real? Of course people would go up in them. I mean, you have a fifty fifty chance. Maybe more. Maybe the other ships get … somewhere.
Of course assembling a group and taking everything you’ll need to start a civilization is expensive. So mostly what you’re seeing are … very rich eccentrics. Because when you’re that rich, you’re not merely insane.
The people who started Elly had a bee in their bonnet about humanity having two sexes, and they thought that making everyone the same would set the world up for equality and community. Uh uh.
Being radically able to be self-sufficient didn’t turn out that way.
BUT then there’s the crazies who started Britannia on High which eventually became the center of the Star Empire.
To be fair, they didn’t go out in a Schrodinger. They only left in the 22nd century, after the time variant had been stabilized and everyone knew where the Schrodingers had gone. Those that disappeared. Forward and backward. In time. The oldest they found still functioning are ten thousand years in the past, but there are schrodingers that show up in the 26th century and are slightly salty at the now cheaper, easier space travel.
Britannia was started…. um….
It is TECHNICALLY a monarchy. Because I’d been reading a lot of crazy people saying that to start space colonies they’d need to be “communism”. And no, they’re not.
But the people who put up the money for everyone else to immigrate (And Britannia was originally three solar systems, where the inhabited worlds range from two very Earth like worlds (Earth and anti-Earth, say) to some large satellites of a gas giant, then …. well, there’s a lot of earth-enough worlds) wanted to create something that had an echo of the golden age of the British Empire “as it should have been.”
So, of course, they made themselves Lords and kings and…. yeah. Cool. Whatever. What they are were the people who sustained all the expense of settling and if needed terraforming, etc each area. Most of them have been substantially bought out, but retain a lot of investments in their world or portion of a world (this is not related to the titles. Some worlds have less land area.) And other worlds, by marriage and inheritance, of course.
If you view them as magnates more entrepreneurial than political, you’re not wrong.
Their constitution is surprisingly close to the US. Most of the power of the nobility is ceremonial, though the Queen’s power is real as much as any constitutional monarchs. They have … some political power (again within the realm of a constitutional monarchy) BUT they can be voted out. And sometimes bought out as well. (Particularly if they’re really bad managers.)
Monarcho-capitalism? Radical constitutional Monarcho-Capitalism? I don’t know.
Look, it makes my head hurt. It does.
What it does have — actually both places meet in this — is a culture of service for the “nobility” kind of like again it’s supposed to have existed in the hey day of the British Empire. (Ideally. In theory. Well, some families definitely did. In this case, in Britannia — and Elly for other reasons — most families do.)
As lost colonies are found, Britannia and Earth emerge as “the empires of free people” which in turn means each are a group of various worlds, growing the nobility of Britannia and the parliamentary turmoil of the empire of Earth.
On the other hand they face an empire that has decided to dispense with its people and had them all made into cyborgs. And what can only be described as a syndicate of criminal worlds that cater to everything horrible, plus.
Oh, yeah, and the world Elly is battling is actual for real slaver cannibals. I mean….
So how much is this book about liberty? Well, my archmagician of Elly (okay, roll with it. No. It’s not fantasy. Mostly not) takes high offense to the idea that he’s settled. He still views himself as a wild nomad, free, by himself.
Which tells you where their heart is.
And because I’m despicable and made of silly, have a movie of poor Skip, from Britannia.
When you get lost between New London and lost Elly, the last thing you should do…
Is get horizontal with the natives. They’ll drum you out of the diplomatic corps, court martial, execute you, reanimate you and do it all over again.
For sure!
According To Hoyt 
So what I hear from you is that one of the important elements about freedom that is important for you to say in fiction is that stock fiction narrative king is untrue where the authorial selection either treats as absolutely powerful, or as powerful as the plot needs him to be.
From that reduced order model of a king flows a lot of communist thinking about ‘this time for sure we will get the ritual space set up correctly, and and pull the magic off’.
They don’t know real mental freedom, and what real mental freedom can still be arranged in autocracy, and so they do not see how to individually behave to maximize freedom.
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How dare you not affirm everyone’s prejudices?
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What most people (including libertarians) often forget is that libertarianism isn’t about any particular form of government, it’s about what the government does and doesn’t do. An absolute monarchy could be libertarian if the king was so inclined.
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The problem with THAT is making it last. There is no guarantee the next king will be sane. And there’s a lot of history against it.
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Of course. There’s also the problem that the would-be looters and moochers would be feverishly conspiring to overthrow the libertarian king, hoping that the next one would be more to their liking.
My point is merely that the form of government is orthogonal to the extent to which a government violates individual rights. Not completely orthogonal, but largely.
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yep
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Who will then either become less libertarian, or dead.
We’ve been seeing how that works, with President Trump.
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For a fictional example, Stirling and Pournelle summed it up pretty well in Prince of Sparta:
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Of course that also applies to (points at everything) pretty much every other form of government out there. The question is what mechanisms are in place to slow that process down.
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When the LFS gave The Lord of the Rings the Hall of Fame for libertarian fiction, there were people on File 770 asking how libertarians could consider it libertarian when it had Aragorn becoming a king. It doesn’t seem to have struck them that a Ring of Power being a danger both to the world and, through addictive effects, to the wearer is a theme with libertarian relevance; or that the scouring of the Shire was about resisting the forcible imposition of socialism; or that monarchy isn’t necessarily antilibertarian or democracy pro-libertarian—it depends on what the sovereign king or the sovereign people do with their sovereignty.
Years and years back, I presented “Law and Institutions in the Shire” at a Mythopoeic Conference, and one of my points was that “Real societies have histories and therefore are complex and not entirely rational” and that what Tolkien called a “half republic, half aristocracy” quite fit this statement, with its effectively dual government—an older militia headed by the Thain and a newer civil government headed by the Mayor.
So I’m not going to complain about a book having a political system that’s, ah, not entirely rational or designed from first principles. I mean, no, really? So unlike the home life of our own dear Queen. . . .
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If there were a political system that was entirely rational, nobody would do it. Because people. “I don’t wanna and I’m not gonna!” is a human thing everywhere.
…And they would be right not to, because people are not entirely rational. So the government wouldn’t represent them!
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THIS. You need to appeal to the heart, too.
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And that is the biggest flaw (and make no mistake, there are many) with Samaritan in Person of Interest.
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I kind of look at it like Vulcans.
“Oh, we can’t do that, it’s emotionally appealing.”
….uh, why is “I wanna” a zero value thing, here? Who is declaring which variables have what value, for this rational and logical system to work through?
(love the fannon that Vulcans are touch-telepaths with some faint awareness otherwise makes it work sooo much better, because everyone is actually adjusting for a ton of variables without formally admitting it, so you can’t justify it because of strong feelings.)
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I’m finding myself with a few new to me thoughts on Vulcans.
One is whether they learn to, or inherently do, channel psionics through hands by preference, and how much that they can turn that off.
Psionic contact in sword on sword?
Makes perhaps the mental and spiritual costs of war slightly different, and has some implications to their ancient societies being psychologically damaged by that social environment, versus our ancient societies being psychologically damaged by their social environment.
But, the thing that came to mind was their feet. With which they walk on the ground. Which makes for experiences, depending on how they can control things, and on how attenuated things are.
Somewhat relevant to some existing thinking of mine, would have implications for a Vulcan raised by aliens on alien soil.
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Remember, however, that up until Surak’s philosophy took hold, the Vulcans were so warlike they ran conflicts right up into thermonuclear warfare multiple times, in what seemed an unavoidable cycle. Imagine the burning rage that would enable that when everyone could feel others minds, feel what they felt, just by touch.
What they went through was so impactful that avoiding emotions altogether was preferable to all of them except the folks who covertly left and became the Romulans.
Foxfier is I think on the right track, with the Vulcan societal driver being a basic and reinforced by training aversion to any emotional influence at all, because the result of not doing so is so obvious in all the radioactive ruins across Vulcan.
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Bingo.
I think there is something to the Vulcan culture and the Vulcan psychology that is not translated literally, that is very powerful in them, and relates how they managed to stabilize themselves.
But, the specific way we are individually unpacking those hints may be three or more distinctly different ideas.
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C4C
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If someone has an imagination and sets the parameters for his/her world accordingly, how can you complain. you may like the story, Your privilege, or dislike same thing, but to criticise it, ; its not a polisci class. Your not analysing why the czarist empire collapsed. its your world,you built it. If it hangs together it would be fun to read.
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/grumbles
Some people have no concept of what imagination really is. A writer is not her character, although she could choose to make that character her RL point of view. A book is not that writer, although he could choose to insert his RL philosophy of life into it. The easiest way to get me as a reader, to wall a fictional book, is to beat me over the head with messaging. If I want a message, I’ll read a non-fictional dissertation or set of arguments like, oh, I don’t know, “In Defense of the Second Amendment” or “Three Felonies a Day” maybe.
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I have no idea how to control something to make it “my opinions”. things are what they are.
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Dorothy Sayers’ book on writing cites a reader who asked her to have Lord Peter find God and become a Christian. Sayers answered that she couldn’t do that because it wasn’t something Lord Peter would do. That seems like a theologically sound point.
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“There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot.”
The principle is rather wider than just characters. You don’t have to agree with a political system to see that it can sorta-kinda work. For a while.
Besides, a political system failing to function ideally can both make for a good story and add spice and/or verisimilitude to the background of another story.
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BINGO! I couldn’t recall who wrote that. Glad you picked it up.
I like playing around with “what if” scenarios. But usually they only last me a few, and never more than a dozen pages. And have you ever written something down to get it out of your head and on paper, only to read it and ask yourself, what was the point of that?
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“In the last thousand years or so, their efforts at convincing people to settle (they’ve been settled for thousands of years) have started gaining momentum. More and more people are farmers, and merchants and there are leagues.”
Okay, very interesting. I just harked back to my reading of James C. Scott’s The Art of Not Being Governed. A bit of the book was a contrast between “settled” lowland cultures and “mobile” highland cultures (oversimplifying a bit, but that’s the gist). “Settling” enables production — eventually to surplus, one hopes — of food that supports non-agricultural classes/occupations. Settling also makes people, to use Scott’s term, “legible:” that is, able to be counted, taxed, conscripted for corveé labor or military service, etc.
To the extent that highlanders plant crops, they tend to be more easily hidden (land ain’t that productive to start with); the highlanders also move around a lot, tend to follow charismatic leaders, and just be all around more obstreperous, cantankerous, and uncooperative from the point of view of the would-be king. Scott’s work was based on his study of the Zomia Highlands in Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and environs).
Guess I’ll need to be reading No Man’s Land. :-)
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Yeah, Scott’s highlanders sound like certain American populations …
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Sounds like some of my neighbors in metropolitan(hah!) $TINY_TOWN.
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They’re hermaphrodites and even convincing them to “marry” (it’s not what it is, but close enough. Think treaty between two people. Actually doesn’t include fidelity. They’re weird.) was difficult and undertaken ONLY because it increases child survival. They’re…. each of them is the keeper of his own name and ancestry. Prickly. Loners.
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There’s a current academic theory about what finally started working to get the nomadic hunter-gatherers to settle down, start planting and tending stuff, and stay in one place:
Beer.
And maybe bread, but mostly beer.
Mass production of beer, from the harvest and storage of largerish quantities of grains concentrated in settlements, drew in people and convinced them to give up most hunting and gathering and work in the fields, or in the towns supporting the farmers and bakers and brewers.
Seems reasonable to me.
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LOL
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Weirdly they have beer, (I THINK) but bread as we think of it has just started.
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Nomads have booze, like the Mongol’s kumis, but that one was fermented from mares milk, and nobody wanted to become a Mongol to drink that.
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Apropos of not much, there’s a hilarious passage in the novelization of Buckaroo Banzai in which Reno, when he is first considering joining the Banzai Institute, is in a syncopated music jam session with Buckaroo, Pecos, and others. When he finds out he’s been drinking kumis Reno crawls off to the bathroom, ostensibly to die:
“Reno? Are you all right?” “No, I don’t think anyone can help me, not even Buckaroo Banzai.” :-D
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Back in 1991, Colonel Cooper observed that beer was the necessary start of civilization. The teetotalling nature (according to them) of certain Middle Eastern societies was given as proof of the assertion.
Can’t say I disagree.
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And of course, even in the most regimented societies there is an underworld. One of the most – interesting – incidents of my stay in Saudi Arabia back in ’91 was getting roped into a run to pick up some bootleg ‘Sadiq’* from a shady fellow in a grungy part of Dahran.
*’Friend’ in Arabic
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Well, that figures. :-)
As the great American Ben Franklin reminds us: Beer is proof that G_d loves us and wants us to be happy, but as the great American Thomas Sowell reminds us: There are no solutions, only tradeoffs. :-D
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I have, from time to time, argued that the form that government takes is of less importance to the concept of Liberty than its power and intrusiveness. A monarchy (notice I didn’t say “absolute monarchy”) of limited power that leaves most people alone and limits itself to those things that require collective response–international diplomacy, defense of the nation, that sort of thing–can be far freer than a Constitutional Republic where said Constitution grants the government truly sweeping powers over the lives of individuals within the nation.
Mind you, certain forms of government may be more likely to provide more freedom than others. All governments, in the end, do attempt to gain more power and control and protections against that have, historically, not been terribly effective at least until some “break point” triggers push back. But at a given point in time, it’s not necessarily true that a monarchy would be less free than some form of representative government.
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Pruning back a government almost always involves some form of self-sacrifice, or in the case of some folks, it almost looks like self-mutilation. God knows Trump has suffered incredibly in his opposition to the Global Marxists and their minions. And not just civil governments, but all governing bodies. Dr Pournelle’s Iron Law applies to all of them.
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I thought the following would be useful in this discussion.
“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
—James Madison, Federalist Paper 51″
I’d put it as “Since no human is perfect, no government created by humans and/or administered by humans can be perfect.”
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I’ve read the first third of the book, and it’s way too short. It doesn’t end on a cliff hanger, but we are starting to get the first hints of what *may* be the solution to the mystery (or mysteries) we had since the beginning.
And Sarah was right in her foreword, calling these people by “she” wouldn’t work at all, if nothing else because a “warrior king” and a “warrior queen” give completely different images.
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The next third out on Sunday.
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Small-d democrats and small-r republicans can write fantasy and science fiction featuring royalty and aristocracies without being Traitors To Their Political Principles.
So can small-l libertarians.
More generally, fiction can have “Don’t try this at home,” things – and fantasy & science fiction can have “Don’t try this in your home timeline.” The trouble comes only with advocacy fiction or cautionary tales – especially cautionary tales that the stupid, evil, and stupid-evil take as being how-to guides.
E.g. 1984 – “The how-to guide says ‘Freedom is Slavery’ – and since everyone opposes slavery as badwrong, all us good-thinkers must oppose freedom, too.”
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Good synopsis; sounds interesting. The first two are in my “Want list”, and I plan to buy them as they become available (I don’t “do” pre-order).
That said, I believe that “Radical constitutional Monarcho-Capitalism” tops, at least by a bit, my previous “Wait; what?!?”, which was “The Emperor and Council of the Republic of Sind” from Leinster’s “The Last Space Ship”.
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To be historical and stuff, Augustus preserved almost all of the forms of the Roman Republic, he just ran all the levers of power behind the scenes. Imperator and dictator were just job titles in the late Republic, so him using them did not twig the weird meter at all for the people alive then. His being the Emperor for the Republic of the Senate and People of Rome (not exactly transliterated but basically) was fine for them.
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Eh. they confuse the heck out of me.
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And me, but confusion and headaches are underrated as sources of inspiration.😉
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“Look, I remember people getting very upset at me…”
This is a good thing. It means they were paying enough attention that they noticed what you were doing and it got up their nose.
You should do this Moar. ~:D
For myself, my books are based on a structure called Sad Puppies. I thought it was frigging genius, so I stole it.
One becomes a Sad Puppy by declaration alone. Nobody can make you be a Sad Puppy. Nobody can tell you you’re not allowed to be a Sad Puppy.
You follow the Sad Puppy Creed as much as you want, when you want. You’re still a Sad Puppy if you don’t follow it at all. You can be one for life, or you can be one for a week.
Why did I pick this crazy thing? Because it is POWERFUL. Sad Puppies did more to f- over the TradPub/DeadTree steamroller derby than any other single thing. We Puppies -still- live rent-free in Lefty heads all over the world. And what did we actually, physically do? We paid to join a club, and we voted for the books we liked, and we talked on blogs. And -that’s all-.
We did literally nothing. And look what happened.
At the time Sad Puppies was just starting I was still writing Unfair Advantage. I had invincible George, most powerful being on Earth, and I needed a structure for him to do all the things he needed to do. The most pressing thing was to beat the alien probe, which could turn up anywhere. One guy can’t fight that alone. He needs to get -everybody- to help him. That means they all need to join up voluntarily.
Later on, in Secret Empire and all the yet-to-be-published books, I needed an alien empire made up of machines. They don’t have biology, so they don’t have needs like we do. They have quantum communications networks with simultaneity. Across a chip or across the galaxy, their processes run instantly. That means location doesn’t matter. They can make anything they need out of whatever is handy, so resources are not important.
How do you make an empire out of that? Sad Puppies. It’s an empire of the willing.
Who -leads- an empire like that? They don’t -have- to follow anyone. Nobody can force them to follow, they’ll just leave. They’ll follow who they want. Which means the leader will be the coolest, most respected guy in the whole Empire.
This is how you herd cats. ~:D
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Nice introduction to your stories!!
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FYI there was an 8.7 earthquake off the Pacific coast of Russia, off the Kamchatka peninsula, and the Pacific Tsunami Center has issued a Tsunami warning for Hawaii, with expected arrival at 7:17pm tonight Hawaii local time (10:17pm PDT). The roads are apparently pretty packed but still moving as people move uphill, and the Tsunami sirens are going off every hour for the next three hours until just before the expected arrival.
https://www.tsunami.gov
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I know. All huns in Danger dep 729, and co, please move inland enough you’re not at risk. Thank you. We love you and value you. Save yourselves. Mr. Lane, get yourself safe, and your fuzzies with you.
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Thank you.
JohnS and I have the coast range between us and the Pacific. We’ll be fine.
Based on the warnings, while the three lower 48 western states will be hit, as long as people are off the beaches proper, not a problem. One foot or less of surge expected. Might be some beach front hotel lobbies or pools affected. Most of Oregon, that won’t get very far. Southern parts of Washington, Long Beach for instance, it’ll go inland, but not much further than high winter tide, even if it hits at high tide. Dunes will protect.
Did not check Alaska warning areas. Hawaii is pushing people into their mountains inland. No specifics on how high they expect the wave to hit.
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Will add. Wouldn’t want to be a boat coming in over any of the harbor bars tonight. Oregon harbor bars are not fun at the best of times. Grave Yard of the Pacific for a reason.
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FYI there was an 8.7 earthquake off the Pacific coast of Russia, off the Kamchatka peninsula, and the Pacific Tsunami Center has issued a Tsunami warning for Hawaii, with expected arrival at 7:17pm tonight Hawaii local time (10:17pm PDT). The roads are apparently pretty packed but still moving as people move uphill, and the Tsunami sirens are going off every hour for the next three hours until just before the expected arrival.
https://www.tsunami.gov
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For once I agree with WP – it’s worth saying twice…
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Hope they are correct on the tsunami effect on Long Beach, 1 ft won’t effect youngest sister’s & BIL’s new house. They are 1/2 mile and behind one 10′ sand dune from the beach. That’d be bad. They just moved in Jan ’24. (Vacation house.) Shorewood Drive N. (I think).
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Yes, indeed. Sauve qui peut.
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Tsunami forecast arrival times and heights for the rest of Pacific coast at: https://www.tsunami.gov/events/PAAQ/2025/07/29/t06p1k/3/WEAK51/WEAK51.txt
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Tsunami forecast arrival times and heights for the rest of Pacific coast at: https://www.tsunami.gov/events/PAAQ/2025/07/29/t06p1k/3/WEAK51/WEAK51.txt
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c4c
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