Iran So Far Away

Posted on by Sarah A. Hoyt

So, are the idiots on Twitter and elsewhere claiming that Iran is “just” Israel’s fight and that we shouldn’t be fighting Israel’s battles and blah blah blah idiots, evil, or simply Russian operatives?

Because at this point all the wounded bear can do to defend its client and proxy Iran is to try to undermine American effort.

I’m probably wasting effort preaching to the fish, but here goes:

You ignorant or malicious idiots, listen up: In Iran’s chants, Israel is the LITTLE Satan, we’re the BIG Satan. If those evil apocalyptic cultists ever get a nuke, Israel will get hit, yes, and it will be catastrophic for them, because they are so tiny. But so will we. It won’t destroy us. We’re a very large country. But it will give the people right now sponsoring and helping Iran — that good ol’ axis of evil, including Russia and China — an opportunity to recover. Both Russia and China are in deep, serious trouble. Getting us hurt would give them a chance to catch their breath and maybe survive.

For obvious reasons and not just because even if they will probably hit NYC or LA — and guys, I have close friends in both, and we have commenters here in both. Jokes aside about their being liberal cesspools — and even DC, we don’t want to lose American lives.

This is not “just” Israel’s fight. Even if it is also Israel’s fight. Frankly, if they weren’t also in danger, I’d say we were using them as our cat’s paw.

Not only has Iran been pursuing nukes and threatening us and Israel, Iran took hostages when I was in high school. That evil hell spawn Jimmy Carter LET THEM and was so thoroughly inept the crisis spread over 400 days, dealing a massive black eye to the US and making the USSR look super-powerful during the cold war.

And before you guys think that didn’t mean anything, that kind of posturing is what other countries looked at before either controlling their commie guerillas or not. They were always looking at who was the strong horse.

Jimmy Carter’s indecisive or complicit bullshit covered Africa in blood and shit and made a living hell of my teen years. It also removed the Shah who, yeah, wasn’t perfect — WHO THE FUCK IS PERFECT WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENTS? — but for the region wasn’t bad and was in fact a client of the US. But oh, no, we had to be Simon pure and help remove him because he wasn’t perfect, and instead bring in the medieval horror of the Ayatollah, a tool of Russia aided and abetted by the French (France, WTF?) who has been a source of terror and war in the region since.

Iran has sponsored countless attacks on the US, it paid for 10/7 (and did the strategy, such as it was.) It’s a major sponsor of terror around the world. It’s in the pocket of Russia, just as it was in the pocket of the USSR and one of its minor functions is to raise the price of oil — Russia’s only asset — whenever Russia needs money.

And it keeps people in horrendous bondage.

And it’s trying to obtain nukes….

Which…. Well, you see, they have to kill every Jew and start Armagedon, so their 12th imam will come from the well and usher in paradise. No, stop. You’re going “Oh, that’s just their justification, they don’t really–“

No, yes, they really think this. These are people who think that Jews are shape changers, including changing into bugs. (I assure you that part of my genetic heritage has conferred such powers on me, or I’d be a lot of fleas, and so many people would be itching.) They believe the birds and some fish spy for Israel. They not only see Jews under every bed, they know Jews have laser eyes, or something.

Look, giving these evil medieval fuckers the power of the sun will be very very bad. And while it won’t bring their water-logged imam to the surface (bet you a dollar) it will change the world in a way none of us wants.

So, if we have to help Israel stomp Iran (further) into the stone age? It’s our war too. Might be more our war than theirs.

Anyone opposing it at this point is either a Russian lackey (Hi Tucker!), an idiot, or so blinded with anti-semitism they’re okay with the world being destroyed so long as Jews ALSO die.

And I’ve had enough. More than enough. I’ve had enough and to spare.

Iran has been at war with us for 46 years. (And for the ones without X)

My graduation song was “I Ran So Far Away” but we all really understood it to be “Iran so far away.” My comparative political theory teacher back in Stow Ohio, in 1981 had a doll of the Ayatollah and we solemnly hung it outside the window every morning. He kept the number of days our hostages had been prisoners on the black board. (I loved that man.)

This has been a very long war. They declared war on us, and we refused to fight because it meant a fight with the USSR. Well, the USSR is gone and Russia is very ill. We might never get a better time to cleanse the evil of the Mullahs from the world.

As always, the regime is not the people. We wish the best and strength and wisdom to the long-suffering people of Persia. Stay away from nuclear sites. And if you can, get the Mullahs yourselves, both for the satisfaction of the thing and because it will save everyone a lot of trouble.

THIS is our fight. I trust Trump to keep it as surgical as possible for us. BUT if it can’t be so kept, it is still necessary.

For the good of the United States of America. For the good of the people of the world, the Islamic state of Iran delenda est.

Aslan is on the move.

142 thoughts on “Iran So Far Away”

  1. “So, are the idiots on Twitter and elsewhere claiming that Iran is “just” Israel’s fight and that we shouldn’t be fighting Israel’s battles and blah blah blah idiots, evil, or simply Russian operatives?”
    Yes.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. But but but they totally have military buddies, and NONE of them want to fight Iran!

      … about half an hour later he’d screamed “jew” and blocked multiple actual veterans, after throwing the chickenhawk accusation around like crazy.

      Liked by 1 person

          1. Yeah, but what if it’s summer? Where does that aquarium go then?

            (Probably the same place your lap goes when you stand up.)

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  3. Yeah, my thoughts include some rather sarcastic comments like ‘doomy doom doomed’ and ‘we might as well throw our gay selves off of the buildings, and save them the work’.

    Leaving aside the specific flavor of islamic theology, Muslims are gonna tend to want both Jews and Christians to go away, because we both have some documentation about what Jesus was really using Jewish poetic references to say.

    I witness that spite, ‘No’, and refusal to just give up and die (to save the other guy the work) are correct.

    Russians and communists wanted and used Islamofacists as foot soldiers agaisnt Christendom.

    they can all frustrate themselves

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            1. The official Israeli govt. explanation is that Lion refers to Iran’s lion, and that Rising refers to the Talmudic advice that if you find out someone is coming to break into your house and kill you, that you should “rise” and kill him first.

              Liked by 1 person

              1. However:

                Dubbed Operation Narnia, Israel’s opening attack against Iran last week saw the simultaneous killing of nine of the Islamic Republic’s top ten nuclear scientists, Channel 12 reports.

                The nuclear scientists were killed using a special weapon whose details were barred from publication, Channel 12 says.

                https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/operation-narnia-irans-nuclear-scientists-reportedly-killed-simultaneously-using-special-weapon/

                Liked by 1 person

                2. In totally unrelated news international economic analysts report a sudden decrease in cell phone use in and around the country of Iran. Reports speculate the drop may be due to issues with certain hardware upgrades.

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  5. The most common argument you didn’t mention is basically “These are the same W backing idjits who lied about WMD in Iraq; don’t follow them off another ‘building democracy’ cliff! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!”

    There was way too much Copperhead obstruction of what W was apparently trying to do as a strategy for me to buy this. As for WMD, there were enough warehouses full of “insecticide” found next to Iraqi airbases and missile sites for me to concede that argument. Add in that Russian ambassador escorted convoy into Syria just before H-Hour…. yeah.

    And I respect the practitioners of Islam enough to credit that they actually believe the words of their holy book and will work to carry it out. Not exactly a new position for me, either….

    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/08/je-suis-charlie/#comment-233518

    I’m hesitant to trust the Sunnis, either, but I trust President Trump to keep his eye on American interest, unlike the NeverTrumpers and Democrats (BIRM) doing the screeching.

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      1. I am getting seriously annoyed at the, “forever war,” “the neocons have to have a war so they’re trying to get us into Iran,” etc. types. Kurt Schlicter is actually charitable to them, saying they’ve been burned so many times by the media and the establishment they’re gun-shy. But I’m not sure.

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        1. To every thing, there is a season. And a time for every purpose under Heaven.

          That fricking season was when we had Iran 80% encircled, we had clear causus bellum from Iranian partisans crossing into Iraq and attacking our troops, and at very least when all this was happening AND its people were rising up against tyranny.
          And I’m more than a bit bitter about that.
          Bush II weaseled.
          Obama actively sided with the enemy.
          And the first iteration of Trump allowed the USMC Commandant to castrate the 26th MEU (also the other Marine Expeditionary Units, and Marine Expeditionary Forces, but those aren’t the Middle East’s rapid response force).

          Not to mention that Hegseth has hardly gotten started cleaning away the rot.

          We are in a weak position to do much other than share satellite intelligence, and drop bombs.

          I’m not (just) being bitter and screaming “You fools didn’t listen, so let it all burn!” I want “involvement” defined, goals clearly stated, parameters set, and an actual plan about how in the hell this is actually going to work.

          I am utterly against a blank check and the idea that chest beating, and being “in the right” are force multipliers.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Luke. Spit out that pill.
            The difference right now, and it might be the crucial one, is that BOTH Russia and China are weakened. Russia maybe fataly and China on the way there.

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            1. What I want, no, this time I f(HONK!)ing demand, that we use the magic word.

              Victory!

              Not “nation building”

              Not “police action”

              Not “exit strategy”

              Our objective is -Victory-. Fix bayonets, boys, and bring me the heads of the enemy leadership. The other side quits and sues for peace, and we set the terms. VE day format preferred. VJ day format acceptable.

              Victory! Total Victory!

              We -geld- the bastards. Those that are not used to grease the treads of our tanks.

              So the next time someone decides to eff around with us, everyone else in the known universe smacks them around and says ‘DO NOT awaken -that- sleeping giant. We do NOT want to find out, even peripherally, what pisses off the Americans.”

              No better dream than to befriend the USA. No worse nightmare than to be our enemy. For we shall have no enemy. Not for long, anyway.

              Trump said “Unconditional Surrender.” I think that magnificent orange troll Swell Old Boy gets it. For the first time in decades, someone at the helm gets it.

              Victory!

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              1. THIS. 100%

                There is no such thing as “civilized war.” Either you are there to cut the other bloke’s heart out and eat it — or you’re a sucker.

                ROBERT A. Heinlein

                RAH refutes Ronald Reagan’s rare stupid statement about getting back to “civilized war”.

                “War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it.” W.T. Sherman

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            2. And that makes them less likely to something stupid and desperate?

              Logistical realities are what they are.

              The USMC has reoriented into a defensive force (with a focus on the Pacific theatre). It has limited ability to project force, especially in the ME. The 26th MEU is all you’re being from them. Essentially a reinforced battalion, but with only LAVs and AAVs for armor. They can be deployed to Iran in 72 hours. And are theatre specific, so their deployment does not impact readiness elsewhere.

              On the Army side, you’ve got either the 81st or 101sr Airborne, whichever is currently spun up. Another reinforced battalion sized element, with slightly more armor, but less artillery. They can be deployed in 48 hours. But their remit is global, so their deployment impacts readiness elsewhere. And if we commit to Iran in any major way, Red China is going to feel froggy.

              After that… You’re looking at about a week before major reinforcements start arriving. Significantly longer to launch any large coordinated assault. And anything we commit is committed. It can’t just be redeployed elsewhere.

              Iran is large and mountainous. Where most of the populace has been fed incessant propaganda that we’re blood drinking demons every day of their lives. It would be difficult for us to occupy and pacify.

              I’m not saying that we shouldn’t pull the trigger. I’m saying that it’s a serious decision that deserves to be taken seriously. Wishful thinking in War is reserved for the troops, who are hoping the weather won’t suck, nobody will sit at them, and that their girlfriend is faithfully awaiting their return. We owe it to them to be clear-eyed about what we’re asking them to do.

              And for the record, I shall never forgive Bush the Lesser.

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    2. Right now, from what I’ve seen the Mullahs are causing islam to drop, and Zoroastrianism and Christianity are on the rise in Iran. Persians do have their own issues as a “race” but I think those are easily borne. So one can hope.

      Liked by 1 person

    4. Juse because American and European “experts” no longer take religion seriously is no reason to assume that others are the same. I remember the State Department pooh-poohing something related to Iran and the Return of the 12th Imam. “It is just for internal consumption, they don’t really believe that,” was the gist of the State Department reports.

      I may have said unkind things at the computer about people who project their own beliefs on other people, and governments.

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      1. Just a note… The fact that it’s brutally accurate doesn’t make it unkind. Maybe, if it gets through the smug superiority and wakes them up a bit, even kind. Tough love, as it were…

        Bottom line? If someone swears he’s going to kill you, and has the ability to do so, believe him and respond accordingly.

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      2. Yep. Yet it’s easy for secularists to believe those icky evangelicals are totally willing to start WWIII to provoke the Second Coming. Uh-huh.

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        1. The process is usually

          1 Choose the good guys and bad guys

          2 Assign believability and trust accordingly.

          3 Apply Sophistry and Spin as needed to protect choice 1.

          4 Do -not-, ever, examine any inputs too closely.

          5 Anyone challenging you, especially effectively, is on the wrong end of choice 1.

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        2. Yup. Weapons of Mass Destruction include nuclear OR biological OR chemical. We know Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons, because he had used them in the Iran-Iraq War. We knew he’d use them, because he already had. The thinking was that he might just hand a few barrels of VX or Sarin to Osama Bin Laden…with instructions to deliver to the USA with his compliments.

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        3. My husband was an NBC Specialist (Nuclear Biological Chemical) when Desert Shield/Storm kicked off. He takes his oaths seriously, so he won’t say anything more than that he KNOWS Saddam had at least 2 of those types of weapons at the time. And Saddam was so afraid of Iran that he was doing everything he could to convince them that he still had WMDs and was developing more. Unfortunately for him, he was a little too convincing and W decided he needed his arse kicked.

          I have no issue with us going in to kick Saddam’s arse, though 20 years of “nation building” was about 19.75 years too many. I would be fine with kicking the collective arses of a bunch of Tash-worshipping Imams and letting the people of Iran build their own nation.

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          1. As I remember it, Saddam stated outright that he had WMDs. And that he would use them on the United States.

            Hey, he was the leader of his country. I was willing to take him at his word. “FAFO”

            Liked by 1 person

              1. Likewise. If the leader of the country has used WMDs, and says he has more and will use them too, it is at least polite to take him at his word.

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      3. Sooner or later we will have to kill them, thanks once again to Liberal Democrat traitors and Euro trash.

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          2. -large- grains of salt required.

            Note he declares that only single-point-safe weapons are useful. And suggests such are beyond their capabilities.

            Both. Utter poppycock.

            We built a huge practical arsenal, well before we worked out how to make a two-detonator single-safe implosion primary. Thousands of such weapons, and multiple major accidents, with no oopsie detonations.

            We dropped the very first single-safe weapon on Hiroshima. Gun-device only needs one. We haven’t figured out how to in-flight arm it, so it was armed on the flightline. The others we built didn’t oopsie.

            Just those two items suffice to throw into question his scholarship and deductions.

            Iran’s ability to step back is aptly demonstrated by the current idiocy. Hitting hospitals, and futher such ass-hattery is a certainty, is very likely to drive the Israelis into an “unconditional surrender” mode.

            If the Israelis choose to, they can annihilate the entirety of the oil and gas industries. A bankrupt regime cannot feed Iran.

            And when that doesnt stop the MadMullahs, the IAF can then wreck the dams that sustain the Iranian water supply. This is a seven or eight figure massacre. With dumb iron bombs.

            The Mullahs are demonstrating -exacty- why the rest of the planet better de-fang or discorpirate those lunatics. Soon.

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      4. very very good. this is what I would have said If I had the ability. And Paranthetically, you’ve mentioned youre Portugese heritage so the odds are good you have some Jewish blood. Going back 500 years or so but good possibility.

        Liked by 1 person

          1. Eh, some dudes in my ancestry evidently thought Jewish girls were hot enough to wife them. Northern Italians that moved through Europe en route to Germany, thence to Ireland, before getting kicked out of there to America.

            I’d expect that, go deep enough in the family tree, a bloody lot of us have them somewhere in the family root system.

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        3. So do I, through maternal grandfather. How far back? No clue. Because we don’t have the family history.

          Really need to find the family bible. Don’t know if mom has it or her sister, or her daughter (heck at this point youngest sister may have it).

          Need it as much to get grandpa’s mother’s maiden name. She was an selling artist of note on the east coast and probably in Montana after they moved there when expecting their last child (grandpa). I have a number of her charcoal and chalk pictures. Need to reframe 3 of them I just got from aunt (why she didn’t offer to her kids and grandchildren, *IDK). Are they actually worth anything other than heritage art? IDK.

          (*) Actually I do. Aunt (inlaw) only thinks her family antiques are “worth” keeping and handing down to their kids and grandchildren. Guess who is not grandparents child. Which is a weird concept because dad’s family treasures the paintings they have done by mom’s dad (not a selling artist) even though not linage relative.

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            1. Eh. this blog is more of a meander than a topic. :D The commenters have led me on the most interesting drunkard walks of information of anywhere else on the net.
              According to Hoyt, come for the posts but DEFINITELY stay for the comments. These people are a treasure.

              Liked by 1 person

          2. Our family Bible was last seen 30 years ago on the weekend of my grandmothers funeral and even then it was difficult to put names to faces on old photos. But 1/4 Polish from when there wasn’t a Poland(1880). there where Russian ,German, Jewish and French names, even if I don’t remember past my greatgrandparents.

            I dont think Carter was entirely responsible for the shah, as I understand it there was British, Arabic, oil companies and all sorts of intelligence agencies working on various things and the final mess with the mullahs ending up in in power was due to that.

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        4. If every child of a Jewish mother is a Jew, then so are all Christians– because Jesus gave us His mother, and Mary was a very good Jewish lady, as her Son was a good Jewish Rabbi.

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      5. The hatred of Jews blinds many to this fact: Whether you think we’re at war with Iran or not, Iran has been at war with us for decades. And the only two endgame options are beating them, or converting to Shia Islam and surrendering.

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        3. they’ve been at war with us since the embassy takeover. oh, they operated through cut-outs and cats-paws, but never forget that to the mullahs, we are the great satan, and israel is the little satan. they have been an ongoing p-i-a for more than 40 years.

          sorry for lack of capital letters – my keyboard shift key is frelled. new keyboard won’t arrive until tomorrow.

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        4. Absolutely correct. They have been at war with the USA since 1979, murdered hundred of US servicemen in Lebanon, have provided material support to Hamas and Hezbollah, both of whom have killed Americans, and their leaders repeatedly say that “death to America” is their official policy.

          Iran is clearly trying to build nuclear weapons as fast as they can. There is absolutely no non-military use for uranium enriched to the levels they have enriched it to (enough to make about 10 uranium bombs), and they had, up until today, a weapons grade plutonium heavy water reactor (Israel bombed it today). They have missile systems that can deliver nukes. The Mossad, who is generally far more knowledgeable than any of our so-called intelligence services, determined that Iran had successfully manufactured the necessary ignition triggers in order to set off a nuclear weapon, and were within as little as a week from making a working and deliverable bomb.

          There is simply no question they had to be stopped from getting weapons now, especially given that Iran’s “test” would likely have been to drop it on Tel Aviv, and then start shipping nukes to those who could hit US targets. Even worse, all they need is to get on rocket from their CCP or Russian allies to set off a high altitude burst above the USA-they wouldn’t even need to hit a city to cause havoc.”

          Also a reminder that those hyperventilating about striking Iran causing WW3 are in many cases those demanding we engage in full scale war against Russia. What is the difference…it is that in the case of striking Iran, the primary party acting are Jews defending themselves rather than accepting being the victims of a second Holocaust. Iran are seen as being the good guys by these Jew-haters precisely because of their campaign of mass murder of Jews. We know this because none of the people who were spreading Hamas propaganda alleging targeting of civilians (i.e. human shields) and genocide in Gaza are denouncing Iran for its deliberate campaign of targeting civilians in Israel with missiles, rather than going after military targets. They are hitting civilian population centers precisely because the goal is not military, it is murder of Jews. Period.

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      6. Whether or not we think we’re at war with Iran, Iran is at war with us. Has been for decades. And the only two outcomes are either winning or surrendering and converting to Shia Islam.

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        1. You’re fortunate – my soundtrack for reading this was the nearby outdoor amphitheater warming up the PA for a Boyz II Men concert tonight.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. I am so, so sorry! My deepest sympathies. (Granted, that’s better than some stuff on Pop-40 now, but barely, if you squint.)

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        3. I actually have the extremely appropriate “Istanbul (Not Constantinople)” going as I read this. Worth remembering that the reason that Istanbul is not Constantinople has nothing to do with “people just lik[ing] it better that way” and everything to do with the mass slaughter of the previous inhabitants.

          If the Mullahs had there way, “Old New York” would soon be “New Tehran.”

          Liked by 1 person

          1. the descriptions of the sack of Constantinople read very much like the ghastly accounts of oct 7 – the raping, torture for the fun of it, murder, hostage-taking, and all.

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            1. Never forget that Vlad Tepesh, Dracula, was raised at court with Mehmed the Conqueror and knew exactly what he was up against.

              Anyone who wants to know why Dracula impaled thousands of Ottoman soldiers? He didn’t want Wallachia going the way of Constantinople.

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      8. Yeah, I have concerns we will get sucked into a ground war and/or not get the job done, but this is one of those cases where the alternatives are worse.

        Even if the mad mullas are not mad enough to use the bomb, they have more than enough minions who absolutely would.

        It reminds me of when leftists say they didn’t really mean it. Sure that specific one may not have meant it, but there are enough out there that at least a handful absolutely do, and will follow through on it.

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          1. A lot of issues in pretty much the entire region can be traced back to Iran. Sure, if the Ayatollahs were toppled tomorrow and a better government took power (say a Constitutional Monarchy under the Shah’s son), the troublemakers would go elsewhere. But I’d rather have them relocate across the border to Afghanistan and depend on the Taliban (or maybe even the Pakistanis; I hear the odd bit now and again suggesting that the Taliban are at least pretending to play nice internationally) than stay in Iran.

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            1. Interesting point… A Constitutional monarchy may be the best government for them; IMHO the only nation in the region which has successfully internalized democracy, in any form, is Israel. Democratic principles have to be nourished for generations (or developed in a new land with no history of monarchy on-site, such as the US was), and no nation in the Middle East except Israel has managed to do so. Just my 20 mills; YMMV.

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              1. Restoring the Shah would not only right a grievous American wrong, it would follow the proven script for doing this job, while forestalling any stupid nation-building impulses from the Foggy Bottom Boys, the steps being: 1) Stomp the enemy regime, 2) Install new strongman ruler, and 3) Go Home.

                The possibility that this just might possibly be accomplishable using air power (and maybe some special ops guys handing out surplus arms from next door in Iraq) makes it that much more attractive.

                Reports that the current heir Pahlavi has been receiving feelers from Iranian Army generals, combined with videos of regime motorcades rolling up on the Tehran airport tarmac to chartered airliners which then proceed to bug out of Iranian airspace, indicate the issue may be becoming ripe.

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                1. I need to keep up better; I was unaware of that. Do you have a cite to a reliable source? Not doubting, but I like to read the details. I tried a search, but only got bio and historical data. Thanks!

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              2. Modern Israel had many thousands of years of Jewish history to draw on, as well as the experience of being conquered and subjugated by a host of empires, each with different types of governments. Sadly one of the things they did not do, which they should have, and which is the source of all the problems with the judicial power grabs there, is the fact that they never put in place a written constitution. Recall the pushback Netanyahu got when trying to reign in a judiciary that has given itself absolute veto power over every action by the elected government.

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                1. “…a judiciary that has given itself absolute veto power over every action by the elected government.”

                  Gee, that doesn’t sound familiar at all. Maybe a written Constitution wouldn’t have solved their problem…

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          2. Yeah. Doesn’t mean there won’t be other different countries playing in the pudding this time either.

            But that still doesn’t make dealing with them the worse choice.

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          3. The Iranian backed militias even targeted other Shia Muslims when those Shia would not accept rule by Iran’s Mullahs.

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            1. Several years ago there were reports that the Iranian government had brought in members of Hezbollah to enforce Islamic rules (according to the government) on the population. This involved things such as throwing acid in the faces of young women who were out in public while not veiled.

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              1. The Mullahs of Iran have a “morality police” for enforcing the regime’s preferred parts of Sharia. (So does Saudi Arabia.)

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                1. Every Islamic enclave does. Official or otherwise. Unfortunately, looking the other way is the usual response. Even here.

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                2. They do. But for a period of time (I don’t know whether they’re still doing it) they brought in Hezbollah members to act as extra-judicial thug enforcers. The Iranian morality police are nominally restrained by the law. The Hezbollah members didn’t have that leash.

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      9. I don’t really want us to get involved and drive this any deeper, but we may not have a choice. Not because it’s Israel–they’re infinitely preferable to any other government in the Middle East except maybe Lebanon *if* they weren’t corrupt to the roots–but because I don’t want us to get sucked into something in Iran and half-ass it, to be blunt. And even with Trump in office, I don’t think the people of this country are ready for another “endless war” like Iraq and Afghanistan. And I also don’t think they’re ready for what it might take to really truly take the head off the snake in Iran, it won’t be pretty.

        “Don’t send our sons to die for Israel” sounds like “don’t send our sons to die for Danzig” in France in 1939. Fair enough. But ANY use of force by us needs to be laid out to the American people as “here’s why it’s in OUR best interests. Not israel’s. Not Iran’s. Not the UN’s. Ours and ours alone.” Then suitable force applied to produce the desired result, and that’s it. Don’t slap them in the face and then give them a cookie. Pound them into the dirt until they don’t get up. Then leave. Oderint dum metuant.

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        1. What we should have done in Iraq and Afghanistan. If wherever does not want a representative democracy, that is on them. Representative Democracy cannot be forced on a region that does not have it. It is difficult enough to keep it here with and established 250 (ish) history. We have to fight to keep it.

          Elizabeth Willing Powel, a prominent social figure, asked him, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”

          Franklin famously replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”

          This response highlights that a republic, unlike a monarchy or dictatorship, relies on the active engagement and informed participation of its citizens to function effectively and endure. It suggests that the new nation’s success was not guaranteed and would require constant effort to maintain its democratic ideals.

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          1. If I may add, there is still that solution that nobody likes. The one that is nigh universally hated, reviled, and spat upon. But it works. And has for generations beyond count.

            Destroy the enemy’s will to fight.

            Crush ’em so bad that ten generations later, mothers will smack their sons on the head for even thinking it. Brutal? Yes. Hated by even the majority of our own country? Also yes. But “bomb them into the stone age” and p!ss on the ashes is effective. Knock out all power generation. Smash major logistics. Chaos ensues. Starvation tactics, etc.

            Will it happen? Nope. Not bloody likely. As in, not a chance. It is a solution, and one that works. I have hopes for solutions to appear that work, short of that sort of thing. It would take a will that I don’t particularly see anywhere today, though, in a position to do something about it.

            Eh. I can still cheer the IDF smacking down terrorist though, so that’s nice.

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            1. Given their serious uprisings and mass demonstrations, especially the green one that Obama betrayed, a decapitation effort might do the trick, and that should be doable with no undeniable boots on the rocky Persian soil.

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              1. I should add that the main argument against decapitation campaigns is that they leave no one remaining to surrender, but that is moot if the whole exercise is aimed at letting popular uprisings succeed.

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                1. Sooner or later, you get down to a sane one that will wave the flag. If there are zero sane ones, 100% incorrigible, then you had better switch off your sword arm occasionally. Because you will have to get them all.

                  And yet, we did eventually figure out how to defeat the fanatics of Imperial Japan. Mainly, we figured out how to defeat the Emperor. (For which they almost succeeded in overthrowing him.)

                  If the Mullah lose their instruments of control, and so far they have lost much, we may see the Iranians settle this for us.

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                  1. If the Mullah lose their instruments of control, and so far they have lost much, we may see the Iranians settle this for us.

                    Ultimately, they are the only ones who can, one way or another. We just need to be prepared to deal with the results.

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                    1. Results might be “Didn’t learn the last time did you?”

                      Only results that work are “USA is our friend, don’t forget that.” At worst “Leave USA alone. Don’t forget that.”

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      10. Nobody tells me what religion to convert to.

        Try to force me to convert, or punish me for not converting, and we’re going full on FAFO. And I’m a Granite State conservative; we tend to do final solutions when we do act.

        As for Iran, you know, I’d almost want them to do an atomic attack on one of our port cities. That would convince all the fence sitters that we need to really turn Persia into a glass parking lot, or at least every Iranian government installation, and government member’s properties.

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      11. It’s the same ages-old war — civilization vs. savages — only the Democrats are siding with the 7th-century savages. They call Trump a fascist while favoring an actual fascist theocracy. They squeal about ‘stormtroopers’ and ‘death squads’ while ignoring the same thing abroad.

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      12. I’m still angry at the previous ayatollah for having the nerve to die at the same time as Tiananmen Square in 1989 so I never got to cheer about it.

        I’m against another US invasion or nation-building exercise, but if Trump sends in the B-2s to take out the underground Fordow site, and maybe gives a small extra push to see if the mullah regime falls, so be it. Not one American boot on the ground though. The aftermath is for the Persian people to figure out themselves.

        There is a geopolitical element in figuring the exact moment to act though.

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        1. If we lease Israel a dozen B-52s, we likely will not have to do much but train crews and supply parts. And we are likely to get back most of them in better configuration than we send them. Those IDF folks are quite clever.

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      13. Wait a minute….you mean they weren’t joking when they called us the Great Satan!?

        All the experts said they were.

        Hmmm…Well maybe thats why they keep trying to kill us.

        I’ll be darned.

        Pretty soon and I’ll have to start questioning whether the experts know what they are talking about.

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          1. “Polls show…”
            “It’s for the children…”
            “It’ll hurt granny…”
            “I’m from the government and I’m here to help….”
            “Trucks will meet you at the pickup point…”

            I have a few others.

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            1. “It’s SCIENCE!”

              “This will sting a little.”

              “I’ll still respect you in the morning. “

              “Only driven by granny to church on Sundays.”

              “I’m not even joking.”

              “My word as a Biden”

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              1. And many more. “The science is settled” deserves special (dis)honorable mention; it’s both incorrect by definition and displays profound ignorance.

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        2. Yeah. Even stranger, I’ve heard people suggest that when they say, “Death to America,” they mean a bit more than just a vague disapproval of certain aspects of American culture.

          Who da thunk?

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        3. Careful with such thought. Before you know it, you’ll start thinking heretical thoughts, like “Kill the Boers is a call to genocide.”

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      14. I wish the Israeli’s had another way to take out Fordow. If we do it there will likely be some fallout in our country due to all the unvetted “migrants” from Iran who have already attempted assassinations, and almost certainly attacks against those U.S. troops within striking range of Iran. They have some defensive capability but not comparable to Israel’s iron dome. We will probably take some casualties. Careful consideration and planning is needed and fortunately we have time to plan. There’s no great urgency. Electricity to Fordow has been cut off so not much can happen there for a while. Israel has weapons that could destroy the entrance areas sufficiently that it would take months to dig out.

        That said, it does need to be destroyed. And it may be we need to be the ones to do it. Also, the Persian people need to be freed from the Mullahs so they can institute a government more suitable to themselves. That emphatically doesn’t mean that I think we should try “nation building” again.

        I am sooooo glad this decision point didn’t occur during the Biden administration! I am fairly confident that everything we have brought up, and lots of stuff he haven’t, is being taken into consideration by the President & his advisors. I pray they act wisely.

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          1. may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb…

            and i am enduringly grateful for the israelis taking care of business with regard to iran. the mullahs have been a persistent thorn for more than forty years.

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          2. That facility must be taken out, because if one doesn’t think that Iran moved the components to actually build a bomb there, where they know Israel could not get to it without US involvement, they haven’t been paying attention. Don’t be surprised if the CCP planes the mysteriously flew to Iran were to provide the expertise and final fixings for an Iranian bomb so that it can be used, while the CCP can claim they had nothing to do with it.

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      15. But more than that, it’s worth remembering that Iran has been an enemy of the west, almost without break, since Darius sent an expeditionary force to Marathon, in 490 BC. Thus, while we’re largely disengaging from the world now, but I wouldn’t mind paying them back for everything, and with USURY, just before we leave.

        “Paying them back,” in this case, means conquering them, changing their government, hanging every Iranian Ayatollah or Hujjat-al-Islam we can get our hands on, putting rewards on the heads of the rest, and then partitioning it, creating a Shiastan with the Shia Iraqis and the Arab occupied parts of Iran, hence also a Sunnistan in the non-shia parts of Iraq, stripping off the Azeri area and uniting it with Azerbaijan, etc., Baluchis to Pakistan, etc., and ultimately leaving the Iranians occupying only the largely oil and natural gas free Iranian plateau,where they can freeze while starving in the dark.

        It would be a good lesson in, “Don’t fuck with Uncle. Ever.”

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        1. Pax America

          But to get the US to the required point of “Let them hate, so long as they fear” would likely require a couple of ashed cities.

          Sounds like a novel I read a long time ago….

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      16. Leaving fused glass behind with the message before the “Don’t f* with Uncle. Ever.” being “Meca is Next!” followed with “Get it? Now?”

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        1. Now I remember, yes. And a cartoon version I saw as a child. And dang, now a bunch of other memories from 1975. Wow.

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          1. I recall that as well, in part because it was from Rikki-Tikki-Tavi’s perspective in some shots (all you saw were lower legs of humans).

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        2. Note Trump’s “unconditional surrender”. Dang. First we have heard that since 1945.

          If he is serious, this may work. In other words, we may actually -win- this. And that would be a -Yuuuge- change.

          di di di dahhhh

          V

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        1. My argument remains that if Nixon had just disavowed the Plumbers the way they were structured to be, he would have served out his term and Jimmeh would never have won the close 1976 election. Without the scandal of the coverup and resulting resignation, Ford would have won handily. Just hold a Press Conference and do the “I am as shocked as you are, I will appoint a blue ribbon commission that will report back after the next election – trust me, I will get the the bottom of this!” thing.

          Now Ford in office would have made Reagan’s GOP insurrection hill steeper to climb, but I bet at worst he could have won in 1984. That in turn might have delayed the USSR falling apart, but maybe not. No way it would have survived in the end.

          And with no Jimmeh there’s no kicking the Shah out in Iran, and no kicking Marcos out in the PI, and same for several other ‘distasteful’ allies around the world.

          Way different from this timeline, and all traceable to Nixon just cutting the Plumbers loose, and sacrificing a few staffers.

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      19. My comparative political theory teacher back in Stow Ohio, in 1981 had a doll of the Ayatollah and we solemnly hung it outside the window every morning.

        With a noose? :-D

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