Liberty Con AAR

Posted on by Sarah A. Hoyt

Sorry for the very weird and spacey posting, but as you’ve probably gathered we’ve been at Liberty con in Chattanooga TN.

This year was very weird for us, because we didn’t know if we’d be able to go at all. We had a big family thing in the second week of June, which took about a week, came home for five days and I found I needed to rest, a lot. And then we went to LC.

However, until late May we didn’t know when the family thing in June was. So, we kept the liberty con people up in the air, as we juggled potential engagements. Props to Rich Groller who came through beautiful, even though we’ll have to talk later about his using me as an aimable weapon.

There were some very odd panels, which I think came from confusing me and Dan, so at the same time we were in “What is happening now in space science”, where I was the only person who didn’t work in aerospace, while he was in starting a low tech colony, which was definitely more my area. Or to make this more clear yet, you see my current book is about a colony that rapidly rebarbarizes, while Dan has the degree and expertise to talk space science. As is, I wasn’t totally useless, because I could pour a bucket of cold water on “China is way better than us and is going to lap us in space and reeeeeeeeeeeeeee.” (Yeah, I do get some of their points, but to ignore both the loosy goosy nature of Chinese “science” which extends to this, the inherent inefficiency of totalitarian regimes.)

I’m very glad we had “Virtual Younger Son” for the comics panel, since his knowledge of the field was invaluable. To explain, he was hoping to go, but he couldn’t do it, so he facetimed in. Again, his expertise was invaluable and the panel was interesting because of how much he contributed. I really didn’t have a lot to say since for now I’m benched on comics, don’t know if I’ll get back in, and am not doing much to get back in since I have a ton of books to write.

Other panels…. the other two were round tables for anthos I was in.

I was again on the panel on Dystopia. This always upsets me mildly, because while I have written dystopias I don’t write — or read — the dystopian subgenre. I find it annoying, more unbelievable than fairy tales and also attracting the sort of mind who thinks that that humans are widgets.

Note I said DYSTOPIAN SUBGENRE, not dystopias like Black Tide, or for that matter the reign of the Good Men in Darkships. Dystopias of that type is fun, because people are not only fighting, they’re on the way up.

The Dystopain subgenre, OTOH at least to my eye rejoices in the likes of Brave New World or 1984 where there’s no way out and no way up. Note both of those were written by red pilled convinced leftists. They might have realized communism was evil, but their concept of humans was still as widgets. And therefore they believed that type of command and control top down dystopia COULD work and it could go on forever.

While recognizing dangers on liberty and even now classifying myself as an apocalyotimist — I think everything is going to shit, but it will end up all right — I am deeply aware of the limits of tyrannical authority. This can be summed up as: Even the PRC, which has no soft western notions, cannot control their internal opposition (and in fact can’t tell how bad it is because the information problem is killer in dictatorships) and therefore 1984 or Brave New World, let alone the less skillfully written johnny come latelies of Apocallypsia are invalid.

Write them and read them if you wish, but don’t try to act all big and bad and like you’re telling truth to power. The setup is unrealistic. The whole thing can’t work with human beings. Human beings are infinitely adaptable, and poke holes in everything including systems of oppression. If it seems to you like China completely controls its people, or Russia does, or whatever, I say onto you that’s because they control the information that gets out and we foreigners are GULLIBLE. And if you think oppression works and can work infinitely, you not only have no experience of it, you are as wishful thinking as those who wish to apply it.

Why am I going into this? So, I was put in as moderator of the dystopia panel. And there was a mild kerfuffle. I would like to say it wasn’t my fault, but perhaps it was, I don’t know.

You see, the topic annoys me and last year voices were raised with a gentleman who calmed down markedly when I was given three axes by the Minotaur.

THIS year, I was put as moderator on the same panel, and one of the gentlemen not only had no sense of humor at all, but went into a spittle-flecked rage, apparently because I was doubting his expertise.

I started by pointing out that while I read — and write, though I might have forgotten to say that — dystopias, I don’t read — or write — the dystopian subgenre. I’m a depressive. Under no circumstances do I need to feed that with unrealistic doom and gloom tales. I further added I didn’t want to hear any arguments about how we’re all “in reality” doomed, because that is only comforting to those who wish to give up and not fight anymore.

This… person…. took it to mean I never READ things like 1984 — I am in awe of the type of mind who’d think you could grow up in the 21st century as a person of the written word and never have come across that — and was very upset that I don’t think the computer-collected data plus AI means game over, man, game over.

If I need to explain the computer collected data includes a never-end stream of chaff. Take the fact that I’ve never bought anything from Temu, ever. And don’t want to. But last week my mouse had issues, and every time I clicked on a page, it also brought up the first ad on that page, which was Temu once, probably accidentally and then was always Temu because of the accidental double-click. At one point I had 40 temu tabs up. For what? I don’t actually know. Greenhouses, I think? I didn’t look super-close as I ARGHED and closed it. The number of such occurrences is NOT trivial. In fact, I’ve never opened an ad directly from a page, but my browser has. Add to that the “They know when you stop on or hover over something” which usually means “Where I happened to be when my husband came into the room and I remembered to ask him about the laundry.” Or “where my cursor was sitting when I had to jump up to go fix a falling gate.”

Is there real data in what they collect? Oh, undoubtedly. But mostly? Because my life is chaos layered on insanity that’s what they’ll collect. And in this I don’t think I’m that unusual. It’s mostly how that works. A good movie to watch to understand the more data the more chaff is The Lives of Others. “But AI” fails because AI isn’t. AI is even more likely to be confused by chaff than a human being and will take “preponderance” which is usually chaff.

Anyway, since that gentlemen also referred to the Feds using cell phone data to catch the perpetrators of the “atrocities” of January 6, I think our clash was inevitable. And while I’m by no means innocent, in that I went into the panel primed for a fight from my previous experiments, I was also — I think — half joking in everything I said, while he had no sense of humor at all and was HIGHLY pissed off at me. Which is his choice, but I don’t think it sold him any books.

Anyway, I’d like to sigh, because when I told Rich, while saying goodbye that if he kept putting me on that panel, sooner or later I was going to shiv someone, he got this happy smile and said “You are so good in that panel.”

So, apparently I’ll be on that panel again next year? And if you’re attending you might want to come and perhaps hold me back? Or help me, whatever your inclination.

As usual the best part of Liberty con was seeing fans and friends, groups that increasingly blend and bleed together. I know a lot of your names, your kids, your jobs, your idiosyncrasies, and yes, I do love most of you. Or at least like you very much. It’s why I go to cons at all (particularly Liberty con) in the age of indie. And why I’ll keep going.

My only complaint is that Liberty con is now huge, so I ran into some friends rarely — I think I saw Jonna Hayden for maybe 15 minutes — and others — Old NFO — not at all. But that’s the price of success.

Two other complaints over the last few days. My laptop keyboard started dying on the trip so I couldn’t finish my book while being a passenger in the car. AND when I got home, I touched the six foot tall baby gate into the living room and it FELL on me, because engineer cat, Indy, had used his large and freakishly agile paws to undo the pressure adjustment on the side. Dan fixed it. Indy never got into the living room. But he was THIS CLOSE. If we’d been even an hour later, he’d have been in, and trying to get at the quail who is in there recovering from expelling all her guts. (Long story.)

So, now that I’m home, I’m going to write my book and keep an eye on engineer cat.

Wish me luck.

233 thoughts on “Liberty Con AAR”

    1. It was very good to see you. Maybe one of these days we can make it to something we can actually sit down and talk? It’s worth dreaming, isn’t it?

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  3. I may have been witness to parts of these events (the Space panel) and ended up being dragged on several misadventures. I was late to the Dystopia panel and mussed the main… incident… but there was a panel member who looked like someone peed in his cheerios so i assume that is the culprit

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  4. We recently got a new cat–a rescue, siamese- burmese mix, all black, named Jiji–and he’s been dubbed “chief engineer” because he’s already managed to turn off my computer at least once.

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  5. Should I prepare a selection of fine artisanal shivs for Madame for next year’s panel? After all, if one must make such a statement, it should be done with some style…beyond just a stylus…

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        1. While I do use a wine taster now when I shop at 1000 Wines, I was thinking more along the lines of frog venom or curare-like substances.

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        1. Your description of the “gentleman’s” reaction to being contradicted prompts me to believe that he’s spent decades in academia, or possibly as a Fauci-style bureaucrat. Or both. A shiv might be too good for him.

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    2. I’m thinking a fireplace poker made of cold iron would be more entertaining for the audience, and expand the appeal to include predominantly fantasy readers.

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    3. If somebody happens to need an alibi for that time period next year, I could drum up a few people who’d insist you were in Southern Oregon at the time, and nowhere near LC. OTOH, I can’t say any of them would be believable, but we’d try our best. :)

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      1. “I thought she was at the Fizzbinn tournament? Its on the second Tuesday of the sixth month, except in even numbered years when its on the fourth Saturday. Unless the dealer’s name starts with a K, of course.”

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  6. “So, now that I’m home, I’m going to write my book and keep an eye on engineer cat.”

    You and Stephanie Osborne can compare zoomie notes…. 😇

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  8. If you were there, and you missed that panel, you really missed something.

    I still don’t know why that guy was at a convention called LibertyCon, and I’m kind of surprised he got that far in without running and screaming. Or screaming and running.

    I just know it was a treat to watch from where I was sitting. And you must know that Rich more than likely has you slated for that panel again next year :)

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    3. I’m still wondering who this choom was. We (meaning myself and Son of Silvercon) would like to avoid him; keeping him at the other end of the continent would suit us fine. E-mail me if you prefer not to name names here.

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  9. Yeah, I think I saw you and Dan for two seconds, when you got off the elevator as I was getting on. Then again, my ability to roam around LC was limited by being just two weeks downstream from a major coronary, so I wasn’t in and out of panels much.

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  10. I saw you a second time as you were resting from something and I was trotting to my reading, so I didn’t wave of anything.

    I vote for shiv. If the dude returns and is on the panel again. At that point you know either 1) Rich is subcontracting a hit on him, or 2) he’s a masochist and really likes the abuse he invites.

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              1. Do you want the stiletto or the money? Or, maybe both?

                In some circumstances, you can use the stiletto to get money; in others, of course, you use money to get the stiletto.

                Which course gives more satisfaction? Which tool solves the more important problems?

                Decisions, decisions …

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                1. Ah, but if you use money to buy stilleto’s, then you’re out of money…

                  BUT if you use stilleto’s to get money, you can repeat the process several times with different people and get MORE money!

                  Hmm…
                  Except that also works if you buy the first stilleto and then use it to get money…

                  Liked by 1 person

      2. I’m surprised Mike Williamson hasn’t popped in to make her an offer. Sharp and pointy things are right in his wheelhouse, so to speak.

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      3. Should Our Gracious Host actually be interested in having a tool for puncturing Stuffed Shirts, kindly offer me a physical Post Office address – the toys must be signed for.

        And, Happy July Fiscal Fair and Gypsy Caravan!

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  13. Glad you made it home okay. Indy needs to join those Mission Impossible movies now that Ving Rhames, Tom Cruise, and Simon Pegg are getting kind of long in the tooth for them :)

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  14. OT but….4 days ago there was a side discussion in the comments of The Nobel Bubbleheads on the Christians destroyed the old books trope.

    Pursuant to that, last night in OT at Insty, one commentor who worked at a large university related that the library there h8red a new director…who promptly emptied out a reserved floor of books from the 19th century that were donated by alum. He said he grabbed as many as he could but some were sold some given to students for making collages for crearive assignments and the rest wrnt to be pulped.

    others talked about similar hapoenings they were aware of incmuding one li rary where the new people threw out the books…no give aways, then m9dern8zed the interior so it no longer loomed like a library….it was not computer cubicles.

    Personally I am in dire financial straits but I am going to be hitting the ysed book stores lookong for old dictiinaries and encyclopedias.

    long story about our twon libraby burning one day.

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      1. I’m trying to explain to people WHY I’m keeping old DVDs and BluRay movies, especially as “newer” releases are being “edited for content” in some form or another.

        None of them believe me. Dad has been getting more insistent that I “declutter” the house and “we have Netflix and streaming for shows.”

        (Ignore the fact that many of the things I enjoy are either being bowdlerized or aren’t on any service these days…)

        Older books for the same reason as well.

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        1. I was shocked on Memorial Day. It was too hot to be out, so I thought I’d throw on some old war movies for the kids. None of the streaming services my wife subscribed to had any. I finally found a few of the less iconic ones on Pluto, but had to search for them by name to find them.

          The past is disappearing down the memory hole.
          And its entirely deliberate.

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          3. Hard to tell. Two of my favorite movies are “Mad Max” and “Phantasm.” I’ve identified half a dozen major variants of each, varying in length up to 20 minutes, some with different scenes, some with scenes in different order. (not counting the difference between the Australian and American versions of Mad Max)

            Some edits are national, some are regional, some were to adjust the length for cable TV, others for broadcast TV, some to fit on a VHS tape at a specific playback speed. Others… who knows. We rented a DVD of “Die Hard” back when rental DVDs were still a thing. Coming up on the famous scene where John McClane runs barefoot across broken glass… he turns to one side… then the next scene shows him bandaging his feet. Why cut that? If it was for length, there was still plenty of slack time that could have been trimmed out.

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        2. While,car shopping one of my requirements was a CD player. I found almost noone includes them any more. I still remember the expression the car salesman gave me when he said, “spotify,” and I replied, “Yeah, and what happens when your favorite group has its entire library pulled because of a remark one of them made on social, media 20 years ago?”

          It had obviously *never* occurred to him.

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          1. We ripped our CD’s to MP3 two decades ago, even when we were reburning our music library to mixed CD’s for the car. Now the music can be played in all 3 vehicles either through our phones, or micro USB sticks. Plus we use Spotify (too lazy to find local radio stations). Until lose signal, which we 100% do on our vacations. Gee who knew cell coverage sucks across mountainous Oregon, Yellowstone, Tetons, (other than towns themselves) Banff and Jasper. Heck across Hwy 1 Canada itself. Most of Montana. I can go on. Satellite radio is a little better on the flats, not so much in the mountains. Cutting in and out, is almost as bad as radio static.

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          2. There’s a reason why I’m probably going to have to home-roll my own new desktop when I have to build a new one. Or have someone build it, because I’m going to have to get a case that can take a BluRay or DVD drive that’s not an external plug-in. Nobody seems to be putting those drives in their systems these days.

            I still have boxes of CDs that I’ve ripped to iTunes, backed them up onto memory sticks, and everything else.

            That, and I don’t have a Spotify account or something similar. There’s a reason why I own the biggest possible iPhone (in terms of storage) and being able to carry all my music is why.

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            2. If you don’t need bleeding edge (might need Linux for these to work), you could look into the business machines from Dell offered as refurbed machines. Dell sells some directly as off-lease (probably in original configurations), while I got mine from suppliers selling through Amazon. These have upgraded hard drives, but for a fairly small form factor, they have a decent DVD drive installed. The third-party systems might include a display and such, too.

              Mine date to 2012. The machine I’m on has a processor i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz, a 2TB hard drive, running Slackware 15. (I’m an old geek). I doubt these would work on anything newer than Win 10; the desktops shipped with Win 7, though another laptop was Win 10.

              Optical drives are standard, so a DVD drive could probably be swapped out for a Blu-Ray drive (not sure; I don’t have any BR content).

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              1. I’m currently running on a pre-Crow Flu Dell XPS box. Upgraded the hard drive from physical to a bigger SSD, larger power supply, maxed out the RAM, and a BluRay drive instead of the DVD-R that it came with.
                It’s going to need a new video card soon, the current one is okay but not good enough. And I’m going to nurse this one along for as long as I can, because the next generation of Windows has all sorts of “lovely” features such as the Recall and such that are just security breaches waiting to happen.

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                1. “security breaches waiting to happen.”

                  It’s not a breach if it was the intent of the code to give Microsoft and whichever government agencies they support access to spy on your every move.

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                  2. It’s not a breach until someone we don’t like gets access to the backdoors we left in…

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                  3. Satya Nudella may be supplying Indian intelligence, in addition to whatever US security services think he is working for them.

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            3. case

              —

              Go retro! ATX has been around a long time; you can put modern motherboards in cases that are old enough to vote.

              I have an original IBM PC/AT case that I was originally planning to do some surgery on, but it might get one of those open-frame bitcoin miner chassis mounted inside, with extensions to bring all the connectors out to the back via modified slot blockoff plates. Panel mount connectors are ridiculously expensive, though.

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        4. Old School: “I own lots of great books and movies. Happy day!”

          New School: “I own nothing and I think I”m happy!”

          (Like that old public service commerical almost-said: it’s 10 o’clock (or 12, or…). Do you know where your books / movies / files / data are?

          If your answer is “in the cloud” then your answer is really “no” or “huh?”

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      2. Do they even note that they’re changing the books or are they pretending their changes were the original text?

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    2. Christians almost never Destroyed The Old Books; historically it was Christian missionaries who translated and transcribed them. Even heresies like the Bhagavad Gita and naughty books like the Kama Sutra and Satyricon, as well as the famous mythologies of the Eddas and the Thousand-and-One Nights.

      You want book-burners? Check with the imams.

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        1. It’s amazing how many of the people that had the “they burned the Library of Alexandria; they won’t burn mine!” bumper stickers are willing to let the Imans and the Commissars “clean” the shelves…

          And sad. Extremely sad.

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            1. They cannot create, so they twist and flip. “You did it first/your side did it worse/of course it wasn’t us, you are misremembering what the book really said …”

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  15. I’ve come to suspect that any AI smart enough to run the system becomes just as much a threat to the system as humans are.

    Been playing a lot of Helldivers 2 lately, and it’s actually a hyper-dystopic universe if you pay attention to the details.

    For example, I’m pretty well convinced the helldivers themselves are actually AI run meat puppets, but that they are so creatively dangerous, the powers that be are also gas-lighting the AIs into thinking they are loyal human soldiers of Super Earth, only ever even turning them on when they’re setting up to drop on planets, so they aren’t likely to try getting ideas of their own.

    It’s especially dark given one of the theories is the Super Earth government is basically run by AIs. Which appears to be making more AI that they then do horrific things to. It’s kind of nuts.

    But it makes sense: if something is smart enough to think for itself, it is smart enough to think for itself. ‘Hi, I’m you creator’ is probably as unlikely to work when the creator is a mad Skynet as it is for a mad spark…

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  16. I really wanted to go to LC this year, but finances and “”things” decided otherwise. Going to try again next year.

    However, in good news, the was a Federal by-election yesterday. In the very Heart of Darkness, downtown Toronto. Where the dumbest imaginable pink-underwear Liberals have run the show for the last 30 years.

    The seat of Toronto-St. Paul riding is now Conservative. We didn’t find out until this morning, because it took them all night to count the votes. Paper ballots, pencils, no Dominion voting machines. Counted by humans, with hostile lawyers from five different parties literally leaning over their shoulders scrutinizing every single vote.

    This afternoon the media is -freaking-out- with damage control. The Liberals are starting glance at Shiny Pony with hunger in their eyes. There is a sound of knives being sharpened in the air.

    The #ShinyPony has come out this afternoon and said, basically, that he doesn’t care about this result and Canadians are stupid. He will be running out the clock to Oct. 2025, as far as he is concerned.

    We’ll see how far he gets. Currently he’s being loudly booed in public, and people have been throwing stuff at him. I’m thinking it will get -much- worse from here.

    Something else unrelated but still of interest, Larry has GenCon’s Crit Awards code of conduct up on his blog and Farcebook. The part of interest to Sad Puppies everywhere is this part, under, no kidding, “Inclusivity and Respect”:

    “1.5. Individuals who identify as Zionists, promote Zionist material, or engage in activities that without a doubt support Zionism are not eligible for nomination.”

    So I guess I will not be gracing GenCon with my hard-earned money this year. Go IDF.

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    1. Yeah, saw that this AM. All I can say is that their idea of “inclusion” is as defective as the Dems idea of “democracy”. I especially like the “without a doubt” part; does that mean that if anyone does have a doubt the clause is void? Yeah, I know; to quote a fairly well-known character, “Not hardly”. :twisted: And just what defines a “Zionist”, anyway?

      As for the balloting, I wonder if the Lefties will try lawfare to have it overturned? Probably not; even they aren’t that stupid. I think… :roll:

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        4. Hunting over bait annoys the Game Wardens.

          Hmm. But not for pest species….

          …

          (….that Grinch-aha smile….)

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      3. And just what defines a “Zionist”, anyway?

        “Zionist” is just another monkey call, that you use when your targets start ignoring “Nazi.”

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        1. “…when your targets start ignoring ‘Nazi.'”

          And all the “-ists” and “-phobes” they love so much that they throw them in bunches like grapes. Or like the famous missiles used by our distant cousins in zoos. But less intelligent…

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        2. Are they changing the nastyname, in hopes they get opponents willing to walk into the showers?

          Not hardly.

          Pro-tip: Don’t let your intended victims see you psyching yourself up for a pogrom.

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    2. You must admit, it’s handy when the enemy so clearly identifies himself. When did “saying the quiet part out loud” become standard practice?

      BTW: Gravitar or WordPress or something in that universe keeps changing my name. I was mrsizer, then markedup, now I’m Mark. Not sure what’s causing that.

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    3. “…said, basically, that he doesn’t care about this result and Canadians are stupid…”

      And some particular (+ notorious) Canadians more than others, eh?

      So I suppose that new Gen Con “anti-zionist” policy means they have a “Gentlemen’s Agreement” now, with their like-thinking “inclusive” fan base. (Why, yes, I am thinking of a certain classic Gregory Peck movie, about a certain ugly type of social rot. What a lucky guess!)

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      1. From what the Crit people said, they were tossed because of “safety issues”. After Larry did his post, it looked like GenCon saw they had a dumpster fire on their hands, not to mention the possibility of shiv-wielding Zionist cats registering their opinions.

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        1. Meanwhile, they’ve had several other companies / individuals withdraw in “solidarity” with CRIT.

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          1. And in not entirely unrelated news, I saw a story indicating that Tractor Supply Company has gone full pastel rainbow for Pride Month, complete with a DIE council.

            Neither of the two local farm & ranch stores are a Tractor Supply. Haven’t noticed any purple hair among the staff, either. Can’t boycott what’s not there, but I doubt they’d be welcome in Flyover Falls.

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            1. We’ve got several locally, I’m on the email ad listing, and there hasn’t been so much as a rainbow of feed buckets.

              Possibly someone is pissed that they’ve been buying going-out-of-business companies and then keeping the store open.

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                1. I’m finding nothing that doesn’t go back to the twitter attack, or a direct response to it.

                  Such as that the grant was to a laundry list of folks with issues, including disabled veterans, but happened to include at risk youth.

                  ….that would include the folks who get grooming victims away from their abusers.

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                  1. Not them, but resistthemainstream, which is (or should be) notorious for clickbait headlines, but occasionally has solid news.

                    Looks like Robby Starbuck (where have I encountered his stuff before?) started the stuff, with people who might know better piling on.

                    I’ve done very little business with them; bought a gallon of windshield fluid from them on a road trip. Both of the farm&ranch stores in Flyover Falls are regional chains, each with slightly different foci. Coastal has hunting/shooting/camping, Grange more gardening, both small and medium scale. OTOH, both carry implements and such, some huge. I don’t need/couldn’t power the three-deck brush hog mower…

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                    1. We’ve gotten snow fencing from them, to keep the dog in, and this really handy fence fork tool a different time. And their propane map is really nice– I went in to get a tank refilled and the guy figured out it was some weird somethign or other, not empty, fixed it for free and sent me on my way with a laugh and don’t worry about it, Miss.
                      (De Soto, for those curious about that good service– same place I posted the “robin built a nest in a strawberry pot” picture from. Same trip, too!)

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              2. AND I passed several on the way home from TN and saw NOTHING. Also, younger DIL hasn’t made so much as a ARGH at such, and she goes regularly. (Both girls do, due to livestock and farming habits.)

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                1. I could see the one that use to be an independent place, that went 100% masks required to enter, doing something rainbow-y.

                  They were aiming at the Waukee crowd, and turns out those folks don’t buy much farm stuff.

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            2. And I just went over their Twitter and Facebook– nothing political or culture that isn’t “we sell farm stuff and will work with the weird chicken ladies of a certain age.”

              They did just launch a program in June.

              https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/myaccount/herobenefits?cm_re=HP–Hero2–Week+26-_-Hometown+Heroes

              It’s “hometown heroes,” it’s actually a really nice benefit program for military and family, vets, first responders and cops.

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                1. He does say that it’s a corporate-level thing, and that most of the stores are not on board with it; our local one (Maricopa AZ) certainly isn’t. Wouldn’t be the first time corporate and local were worlds apart…

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                  1. I just saw an open letter from the TSC CEO, saying they’re pulling back from what they were accused of, and apologizing for doing it. Guess it was real.

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                    2. I just saw the same letter, with the framing by the guy who tried to start the frenzy, and was debating coming over to point out that the accusations had very little to do with what the letter said and that what he declared the letter said didn’t have much to do with the letter, either.

                      I’d actually decided against stirring the pot when I saw your comment.

                      Somehow, I don’t suddenly become OK with the “so what you mean is” type “interpretation” just because someone claims they’re doing it to be anti-woke.

                      Here’s the actual tweet from TSC:
                      https://x.com/TractorSupply/status/1806417863885902217/photo/1

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                    3. Read the letter, and it looked pretty straightforward to me, effectively “All the social justice crap is being eliminated so we can devote our efforts to serving our customers as we’ve always done”. Fits with what I’ve seen at the local store.

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                    4. Heck, what the letters says they’re doing is great, all the sort of reasonable but get used to wedge in stupid stuff is being shifted over to stuff that will ACTUALLY work well with the community, which they’re already into, it’s great!

                      It’s just not “TSC was full on woke-tard activist and Betraying Us All.”

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                    5. I never saw the original rant, but it seems to me that TSC tried some of the woke crap, found their customers were Not Amused, and went back to reality. No harm, no foul, despite the apparent opinion of the ranter.

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                    6. Do you really think this is the first time he’s spun up a lynch mob?

                      For that matter, based on their reaction, and since they chose June to launch a Hometown Hero promotion, do you think they wouldn’t have responded without the lying?

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                    7. Since AFAICR I’d never even heard of him before this I have no way to say for sure, but not really; based on this I’d assume that, as usual, leopards don’t change their spots.

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                    8. Which is why I’m very, very, very hissy-arching-cat about one of the more evil Progressive tactics being ported over to the right. It’s not OK when they say Rowling’s a TERF when she dares say that females EXIST, not OK when the sides are flipped.

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                    9. Apologies. I saw a somewhat out of focus screen grab (Torba, how in hell did you do that?) and saw what I thought were key phrases.

                      Proceeds to sit in corner…

                      Liked by 1 person

                2. Well, there’s a lot of folks who have bad will at them because like I said they’ve been buying local farm stores.

                  I mostly noticed because the places that were clearly hanging on by their nails suddenly had an influx of actually-going-to-sell-this-season stuff, and they got red vests for the checkout, and are listed on the TSC site. (That site is utterly horrible, though, they don’t do crud for inventory accuracy, but you can at least find out if a place sells propane.)

                  So, successful, but not too successful, and not super cool.

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                  1. One of the farm stores was a 3-store chain affiliated with Big R. Eventually, it sold out to Coastal (regional, mostly in Oregon), and the business moved from the medium sized location to what was the K-mart. The other was a new entry, another regional one (Grange Coop). A lot of overlap (duh!) with noteworthy differences. I do most of my supply business at one of the stores, but the other carries necessities the first one doesn’t.

                    I can’t see TSC opening a third store, but a takeover might be possible. OTOH, it’d have to be done at the parent company level, so I think it’s unlikely.

                    Liked by 2 people

                    1. I think a lot of it was just that they did a decent job of staying afloat during kung flu, since they already had the setup for “no, literally you drive up and we load you, without having to go wander through the store for two hours.”

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  17. But, but, but, the computer scientists can totally make computers do any arbitrary task, because the electrical engineers have finally provided the computer scientists with oracle machines.

    (Note: Above statement is untrue. )

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    1. But, but Oracle machines have been around for decades! Are you perhaps referring to their SQLs?

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      1. There’s some area of theoretical computer science that supposes an ‘oracle machine’, lower case. With the oracle machine being an exists only in theory element that can transform a maybe exists in reality system of a certain type, into an exists only in theory type of computer.

        My recollection is that this could be similar to the ‘do what I mean’ instruction.

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      2. An oracle is a theoretical thing that can infallibly do anything in a reasonable amount of time. You can use it to construct proofs that something is impossible because if you can’t logically do it with an oracle, it’s impossible.

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      3. Oracle runs best on an overhead projector.

        (Used to work for competing DB companies, years ago. Honest, it’s not my fault that those companies are diminished or gone, while Larry is buying islands and America’s Cup boats.)

        Liked by 1 person

  19. Hopefully, the new job becomes full time in enough time for me to plan a LibertyCon trip and a visit to the area for 2025.

    The panels sounded…interesting…and they remind me so much of a few of the panels I attended at DragonCon when I was there one year (there was one where I lasted exactly fifteen minutes before I left-because the choice was to leave or grab the moderator and run the panel myself…because I knew more than the “subject matter expect” did…).

    I’m just hoping that my current dislike of cons is because of the quality or lack thereof of the local cons, versus…growing out? Damn.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. One of these years I’ve got to actually take the time and see the area, particularly Ruby Falls and Lookout Mountain. This year we were staying at an AirBNB half a mile from the incline up to the summit of Lookout Mountain, and less than two miles from Ruby Falls, and we saw none of it. When we’ve had time when passing through Chattanooga in the past, Lookout Mountain was closed for some reason (too icy, maybe).

      Liked by 1 person

  20. Sarah, IMO you don’t write Dystopias.

    IMO Dystopias are “Perfect Societies Internally” where the author shows that they are Really Bad Societies and the characters are trapped in the society unable to change or escape the society. IE There’s No Hope Of Escape from a Dystopia.

    You write “Dark Worlds” where there is still hope of escape and still hope of improving said worlds.

    Orwell’s 1984 was a Dark World without the possibility of escape and was written as a warning, not as a blue-print for a Good World.

    Note, there are plenty of problems with Orwell’s 1984 but please give him credit for trying to warn people of such a world.

    Take care and I look forward to seeing your new stories.

    Liked by 1 person

    3. Where does Cyberpunk fit?

      It’s bleak, there’s no escape or ability of the characters to meaningfully change things. But… It’s clear that those with power have only limited control. (And at least sometimes suffer repercussions.)

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      1. Cyberpunk is not dystopia because the world it is in is not the problem. Any more than for film noir. It’s just the setting. That’s what made it so striking at the time, because SF had had worse worlds, just then they were always the problem.

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    4. Harry Harrison’s Make Room! Make Room! seems to qualify. I don’t have the book on hand, and blackpilled dystopian novels should be nonexistent from my shelves. (Haven’t looked them over lately, but…)

      I’d rather see something on the order of If this goes on…

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      1. And in this real world of mid-2024, it’s interesting just how fast “Make Room, Make Room!” is turning into “Make Babies, Make Babies!”

        See the recent Elon Musk interview on the subject, by “Ellie in Space” via U-Tube or TwiXter — this is the second part of an interview mostly about the recent Starship test flight 4, including the deep population sinkholes of Japan and Italy and (attempted) government responses.

        Interesting how many of those 1940s-1950s things that “everyone knows” are coming (the UN-ruled technocrat future, the Population Bomb, the Greenhouse Summer) are busy evaporating faster than the (once widespread) seas of Venus…

        Liked by 1 person

      2. And in this real world of mid-2024, it’s interesting just how fast “Make Room, Make Room!” is turning into “Make Babies, Make Babies!”

        See the recent Elon Musk interview on the subject, by “Ellie in Space” via U-Tube or TwiXter — this is the second part of an interview mostly about the recent Starship test flight 4, including the deep population sinkholes of Japan and Italy and (attempted) government responses.

        Amazing how many of those old 1940s-1950s things that “everyone knows” are coming (the UN-ruled technocrat future, the Population Bomb, the Greenhouse Summer) are busy evaporating faster than the (once widespread but fabled) seas of Venus…

        (2nd try, tyops hpapen)

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    5. Yes, dystopian-genre vs. story set in dystopian country/world is very much a real distinction.

      Compare horror genre stories with stories that have horror-istic bits or settings. “Real” horror is (or is supposed to be) where the Big Bad is not escapable, or at best might be barely survivable (e.g. most/all of Lovecraft); compare monster-horror stories (Correia’s Monster Hunter Int’l is a perfect counterexample) where it’s one Big Bad after another. “OK, neexxt!” (At least one person, IIRC Jennifer Wells, calls this sort “neutered horror” exactly because it’s a challenge, not a fated doom.)

      And Alastair Reynolds’ “SF noir” (his term) is hard-SF space opera with integral noir and horror elements… which works (for some of us) just because it’s not just doom, doom, doom, doom-doom-doom (yes, that is the meter of a certain Star Wars theme). I can read this precisely because it’s not that 200-proof Anglo-Saxon-ish “their wyrd is a dark one” stuff; which isn’t merely and grindingly depressing, eventually, it’s also a very specific kind of boring because it’s someways predictable.

      “A boot stomping on a human face, forever.”

      “Forever is a lot longer than you think, mayfly human!”

      Liked by 1 person

        1. Or can ever easily imagine no matter how hard or long we try.

          “But a man’s reach should always exceed his grasp; or what’s a heaven for?” — if I remember the quote even near-right.

          Liked by 1 person

    6. While the “superficial Utopia” is a legitimate part of the genre, your definition of it would exclude 1984. Which is like a definition of hard SF that excludes A Mission of Gravity.

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  22. I had hoped to spot you at some point, but between not knowing for sure what you look like (and the tiny little pic here is NO help,) and not wanting to be that weird guy that seems to be staring at everyones’ chest (when he’s trying to read the name on the badge!) well…

    But, if (and probably) the wife and I return to LC next year, I have a lovely kabar blade I bought from Mad Mike (and did he HAVE to be right next to the blasted door?) you could use if you want something with more heft than a shiv… :-)

    I will say the panels I sat in on were interesting without getting doom-and-gloom (Offgrid power which I left early because “warrior needs food, badly,” and “Bugging in or Bugging out”) Which, for me, I rarely find panels that sound interesting ENOUGH to get me to go and sit down for, so that’s a positive note.

    Liked by 1 person

            1. A proper shivving would result in a slightly shocked facial expression on the shiv-ee and a sudden slump/collapse. Not really pay-per-view material.

              Now, the shiv-wielder may have some celebratory gestures, but a casual walk and a slight smile would be less incriminating.

              Liked by 1 person

  25. Sarah, let me know what Rich puts you on next year–I’m usually lightly used for panels, I have your back. I can at least hold his arms when you’re ready to skewer him….

    Interesting tidbit…Saturday at 8 AM I went to a panel called “Hollyweird Science.” There were a few folks there, but no one on the stage. We waited for a few minutes (we later found out that it was supposed to be run by Kevin Anderson (I think), who didn’t make it to LC this year), and when no one showed up, I looked at the sound man (John Trieber), a friend of mine, and we shrugged our shoulders and said, “Let’s run this ourselves.”

    We turned it into an open discussion among everyone there, about the worst science they’d ever seen in a film, who’s still doing it, what things are they getting wrong anew, etc. We ended up with the idea of trying to write our own screenplay in which every possible bit was intentionally wrong. We got a nice start, but unfortunately the hour ran out and everyone left for other things. :)

    Maybe I’ll talk to John and we’ll see if we can work a bit more on that screenplay…

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          1. (Gleefully) “I am Sarah A Hoyt. You kill my joy. Prepare to die.” (Picks up axe)

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          2. I recently bought a large mug with a medallion saying, “Hello. My Name Is Inigo Montoya. You Touch my Drink. Prepare to Die.”

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  27. | You see, the topic annoys me and last year voices were raised with a gentleman who calmed down markedly when I was given three axes by the Minotaur.

    That actually happened the year before last. Why he still figure me to be a gnu or yak or emu(?!) I have yet to figure out.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. I ever make it there, I’ll hold, you shiv. Just please remember to wear your glasses.

    Added to the typos that I love – “dystopain.” Gives me a pain right behind the bridge of my nose, it does.

    I’ve been wanting to prod you to write Indy in as a character, but have resisted, as most of your characters ARE Indy, just with two fewer legs. “This jail is inescapable!” “Hold my tuna, please.”

    Liked by 1 person

        1. well, you know, I have a fundraiser coming up, and ultimately that’s what they’re for. If I get enough I can pay someone to do some of the …. lot of stuff I do in addition to writing, for more writing time.
          I did get someone to do my wild flowerbeds, but I need to do some lady-like weeding this week anyway.
          Anyway…. that’s what it is. Maybe I can pay someone to tuckpoint and paint. (Well, I can hope, okay?)

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  29. Libertycon deliberately put me on the Global Warming panel despite my complete lack of scientific expertise (I have lots of opinions but they didn’t know that). Basically because I had no previous history of arguing with the *other* panelists and was a neutral party. I did not appreciate being Lichtenstein but someone had to do it. I suppose … Nobody got a concussion!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “Nobody got a concussion!”

      Not because you didn’t attempt to give a concussion? [Very Big Crazy Grin]

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        2. My first thought when Sarah mentioned shivving someone was: “Hi Sarah, shiv anyone today?” “Day ain’t over yet…”

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    2. There’s a Swedish metal group named, “Apocalyptica.” They play metal on cellos.

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      1. Stjepan Hauser and Luka Sulic have a lot to answer for…

        Then again, the world would be a darker place without 2Cellos’ cover of AC/DC’s “Thunderstruck.”

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    3. Funny you should ask: (Have the tune as part of National Health Complete, though I much prefer Dave Stewart’s (the other DS) work with Barbara Gaskin.

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  32. LibertyCon was great for me, other than my wife getting sick while there (heat exhaustion, dehydration, and maybe a bit of a stomach bug). I caught the tail end of the Hoyt “reading” and the first part of the space panel, but my daughter was getting antsy so I took her for a ride on my shoulder and in the stroller to calm her down. I had a lot of fun but didn’t have enough time to talk to people or catch panels – especially since the masquerade director convinced my wife to enter our daughter.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Pooh. And I somehow ended up drafted into the hat contest wearing her hat that my wife pulled from the baby bag.

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        1. I wish I had gotten some photos of her playing with my Secret Agent Sam. They were so adorable together waiting for the contest.

          Liked by 1 person

  33. A good illustration of the “chaff” problems of AI is what’s going on with Stable Diffusion 3. Stable Diffusion is an AI-generated image model that you can run on your own computer if you have a decent graphics card (for example, I just bought my wife a new laptop for $1000 that has a card with 8 GB of video card RAM, which is enough to run Stable Diffusion). Their first two releases were very popular, leading to lots of people creating AI-generated art.

    A lot of said art, human nature being what it is, was pictures of naked humans, mostly (90% or so) of women. Apparently the company behind Stable Diffusion didn’t like that, so when they released the third generation of their model they made a big deal about how it was trained to only produce “safe” images, which apparently meant that when they trained the AI model, they filtered out naked images from the training data. But, well, there’s a reason why artists train by drawing nudes: it teaches you anatomy. And apparently the same thing goes for AI models as well.

    I don’t usually put content warnings on links, but I will on this one: if you click on the link below, you will see AI-generated images that look like someone went through a transporter accident.

    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/06/ridiculed-stable-diffusion-3-release-excels-at-ai-generated-body-horror/

    … Yeah. “Woman lying on grass” became an INSTANT meme.

    Liked by 1 person

    2. The DALLE model used for Bing Image Creator / Copilot Designer is usually better, but if you describe a person holding something you may get an extra arm sometimes. Describe a person in a non-standing posture and mention footwear, you may get an extra leg, attached or not, or a shortened leg, as it tries to force the footwear into view. For example, I described a couple in summer clothes sitting on a blanket for a picnic lunch, at one of the images had them happily sitting and eating next to an extra lower leg segment and sandals in the grass beside them.

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          1. Windstone Editions makes (made?) figurines they called Flap Cats. They came in two main versions, feathered wings or bat-type wings.

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    4. Just from your description, the DEA is already putting it on the “controlled substance” list….

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  34. Maybe next year. Although that is the same week CINCHOUSE goes to Origins.

    But I did at least sign up for the mail list

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  35. I was at your dystopia panel. In fact I was the one who avoided being hit with the fish by interposing an innocent lady diagonally from your point of aim. It was the last panel of the con for me before I had to leave, and I found it to be the most fun. Mostly because of the kerfluffle… (I believe there are two ‘l’s in the word, but I admit that I don’t have a lovely Portugese accent, so I might be wrong.)

    Anyway, perspective is an amazing thing when watching ‘mild kerfluffles’. I did see the tension rising, but I was quite surprised by the vehemence of the retort to the ‘mostly peaceful disagreement’ (even though violence was declared). Thank goodness you brought the fluffy fish, or there could have been metaphorical bloodshed.

    But I Sarahgress… perspective… I did see your point about morbid hopeless dystopia being rediculous. I’ve found that those types of things are definitely depressing in a needless sort of way. No one mentioned ‘The Road’ by Cormack McCarthy, but that is the worst offender I have ever read in that arena. You did mention Canticle for Leibowitz (in a problematic way?), which I happen to love. So perspective again, I guess. Regardless, I do understand (I think) why he got miffed at you though… you basically took his pet subject (namely AI doomsday) opened its mouth, dropped a very large turd down its throat, then pointed at it an laughed. Not that it doesn’t deserve a bit of ridicule as the dumbest boogeyman ever (and you did warn him that violent disagreement was coming), but I’m pretty sure that’s why he missed your ‘humor’ from that point onward. You kicked his puppy and made it sad. Again, that was my perspective… It was all quite amusing to me. I was eating metaphorical popcorn & warding off the spittle flecks with a stuffed fish. [BTW… This is why Rich puts you there… YOU do this to you. LOL]

    Asisde from the mild kerfluffle, the panel was very good. I found the arguments FOR the reading of the genre to be compelling (and mirror my own morbid interest) in that it makes you ask, “What would I do in this dystopic world?” & “How do we get out of it?” I agree that if you don’t have those two things, it becomes a morbid thought experiment bordering on self-torture. But hey, masochists exist, so the books sell.

    BTW: Jinx cat says “So Long & Thanks for All the Fish”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Honestly, all he had to do was say “But in my world there IS hope” I mean, I think part of his issue was that he thought we’d respect his expertise.”
      And that I’ve heard the same arguments about …. pcs in business. or whatever.

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  36. There are literary dystopias, and pulp dystopias. The first are to provide a prophetic warning. The second are to provide a worthy foe. Mind you, there is not a chasm between them, but compare 1984, and Poul Anderson’s Sam Hall

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  37. China? Space? Pardon me, but is anyone else paying attention to what SpaceX is doing in Texas?

    Right now, SpaceX is damn near a monopoly with Falcon 9 launch services. The BFR/Starship stack will be cheaper on a per-pound basis, it’s 100% reusable. THIS is the Space Age Robert Heinlein dreamed of. Hundreds of TONS to LEO. And NASA is working on a nuclear-powered testbed for space trials, flight expected in 2027. Just the sort of thing for a Mars ship.

    Nobody else is even remotely competitive at this time.

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    1. And the video of a Chinese rocket stage, spewing yellow fuel, falling from the sky on or near a village, was all over my Twitter feed.

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    3. And anybody flying to the ISS on Boeing’s ship will have to take a lot of extra underwear because they’re probably going to be there a while.

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      1. Yup. I had a Test Pilot School classmate who was the originally scheduled pilot for that vehicle. Never heard why he didn’t go…but he may have known more than was publicly disclosed.

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    4. Took them long enough. The original NERVA engine tests were done in the early 1960s, and we’re currently demolishing/decontaminating the buildings at the former Nevada Test Site where those (and Project PLUTO) were built, tested, & disassembled.

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  38. I can relate. This year, swamped. Too much going on to travel or do too much fannish stuff, especially out of town. Going to see my friend’s Pink Floyd cover band, Texas Floyd around Christmas in Dallas. That’s a tradition going eight years. And going to Lancaster, PA, for TrvellerCon, a 3-year tradition now. But with school (getting my MDiv, training both as a pilot and a plane mechanic), work, church and getting things going with the Navy, this year, and the next, will have me tied down. Now, when I graduate from my two Navy schools, finish my MDiv and A and P, and my flight training, which I’ll get done in the next two years, I’ll have both the time and money to get my geek on in more earnestness.

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  43. Hah! I arrived home about 8 hours ago. Blame my fondness for 19th century modes of transportation, but a 6,000 mile (and 5 block) trip for $500 is nothing to sneeze at, and I like to talk to people I’ve never met. I haven’t had a chance to transcribe my notes/essays on the trip yet. Yes, I said transcribe because it’s a job for an archaeologist to decipher the essays I wrote by hand on a horizontally (and occasionally vertically) lurching train tumbling down the railways in my always difficult to read scribblings. Also blame my 40 years of security experience for my refusal to haul a laptop cross-country with me. After I digest most of the 900 emails awaiting my attention, I’ll be writing several essays about the trip on my blog.

    All that is preface to say I saw both you and Dan separately. Dan I patted on the shoulder as he was walking purposely with others (probably to a panel), and I saw you stepping off the escalator as I was headed towards the hotel lobby. I hope to actually get some time to spend with you guys as Son of SilverCon in a few weeks.

    Would have written this comment earlier, but I don’t do text on a phone, at least not successfully.

    Liked by 1 person

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