Boobs

Posted on by Sarah A. Hoyt

There is a particular style to feminist whining. My “favorite” is the hundred meter synchronized competition in attributing male awkwardness or any form of marketing (even covers, which are a subset of traditional publishing, which is a business dominated by females and aimed at females) to malice and patriarchy. Even when — especially when — men suffer the exact same thing, and often twice as bad.

Like, you know, the way women are dressed and posed in science fiction and fantasy covers. Because REEEEE sexism and objectification of something. Midwit feminists — particularly males — are fond of doing parodies of those covers by posing males in those positions/similar outfits. Yes, it looks ridiculous. Let’s be fair, me, a blobby woman of late middle age would also look ridiculous.

The reason for that is that cover models, male or female are by definition beautiful, or at least attractive to the eye.

But the truly ridiculous thing, besides the “we hate men even more than you do” of the “male” feminists, is the fact that none of them — NONE — ever seem to look at genres where most of the writers and readers are women and therefore the marketing is ALL to women (as arguably it is these days in fantasy, but never mind.) Because there the male cover models are twice as objectified. Or, you know, displayed to borderline indecency, but — always — with the face cut off. Because who cares about the face? We’ll fantasize about that while gazing at the expanse of pecs, or something.

That, somehow, is not objectification or sexism, because it’s women doing it, and women lack the power, because women say they lack the power, and therefore it must be true, since women have the power to declare the way things are in our current day and age.

Er… Or at least that’s my observation.

In fact, feminist whining is strongest against offenses that never happened in the realm of ever.

For instance, some months (years? There’s been episodes over and over) there was synchronized 100 post whining on the subject of how male authors describe women’s breasts.

I have to say most of the quotes they were putting up sounded about as real as woke 8 year olds being afraid Trump will get elected and that they have to stop eating estradiol in their cheerios. Or something.

Because I read just about everything, from paleontology to romance, passing by such male-heavy fields as mil sf and thrillers. And I’ve been in writers’ groups with everyone from rawest beginners to bestsellers. And I’ve never found anyone — not one person, not even a beginner — describing a woman by talking about her pert breasts and stiff nipples. I think the only place that would be described like that (As opposed to referred to, in APPROPRIATE circumstances, like when the characters are in bed or in a sexual situation) is in erotica. And there simply AIN’T much erotica written by men, because there isn’t much erotica READ by men. It’s not that men are pure of heart. They’re simply more interested in visual representations of sex — like movies or pictures — than in writing. I suspect the only male-written erotica is Lesbian erotica, because every male writer starts out by having the bright idea that it will make him millions, before realizing that other men (and most lesbians) prefer to watch porn than reading it, and that — despite advertisements to the contrary — straight females don’t find lesbian porn sexy in the slightest. So, yeah, I have never read that.

But somehow, again, I suspect that those male-written faux pas are as imaginary as the woke 8 year olds who want mommy to explain why evil Republicans want to kill everyone.

Even if they were true, they wouldn’t be half as bizarre as the things I’ve read in (mostly romances and/or fan fic) written by women pertaining to male anatomy. From the idea that some men put out an electrical current through their parts, to penises of unusual size (really unusual. My favorite being the one that would have dragged on the ground. That one was SF too) to penises that bend and fold while erect (look, people, I don’t even have those parts, and they’re tried to retract into my body while reading that.) Or the way men talk. Or– I mean, if I were really mean I would pass them on to my male friends for mocking every time I stumbled on one of those. (Some of these authors are supposedly married. And have children. Who must have been virgin births because these women have obviously never seen a penis in real life.)

But I don’t. I don’t because my friends aren’t whiners. And because for the despised and mocked underclass to complain doesn’t do any good.

…. Am I saying that men are the despised and mocked underclass?

Yes, yes, I am. Particularly in cultural venues.

No, seriously. Take this … thing circulating, including in my groups:

Do you believe that? Because if you do, I have some land to sell you. In Florida. Maybe, sort of undersea, but what a bargain!

Seriously. Those of you who read a lot and across the board: Have you ever read any male author describing a woman’s chest as breasting boobily? Even in fanfic? Without its being ON PURPOSE TO BE FUNNY?

Because I not only haven’t, but I can’t imagine anyone doing it. And mind you, I have mentored writers’ groups composed of 14 year old boys. They just didn’t refer to women’s chests at all, and if pushed might drop something stupid in like “Big breasted.” (Though none of them ever did.)

Breasting boobily? REALLY? Not even the rawest of beginners. Unless they were on purpose trying to get your goat.

That this claim can be made in public and that people take it seriously and joke about it, as though men in general wrote like that, tells you what men are in the culture: The underclass, that can be safely mocked. And whose stupidity and sins everyone assumes to such an extent that no one even questions the stupidest and most unlikely accusations.

It was that way in black face acts, and in various vaudeville mocking either Jews or homosexuals, or whoever was in disfavor in whichever society at the time the act was performed.

There is always a group that is safe to laugh at and complain about. That’s always the despised minority.

Right now? That is men. Mostly straight men, though gay men aren’t treated all that well either.

That this is done while reeing about the patriarchy and muh feminist oppression is just the cherry on top of the self-delusion Sunday.

My G-d have pity on these deranged harpies, male and female both, when the worm turns (which it inevitably always does.) Those of us who have had about enough of their shit won’t.

I’m only sorry that decent females, including the ones yet unborn, will pay for the sins of these despicable hyenas who display their privilege by pretending oppression.

190 thoughts on “Boobs”

  1. I’m a guy. I like women. I have more than once thought to myself “Hmm, must be cold out there”. Well, cold by Texas standards. I’m not going to apologize for it either. If men didn’t find women arousing, what would happen to the population? Oh, wait…

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    2. Funnily enough…

      Brin’s “Glory Season” has a world whose founder messed with how attractive men find women. During part of the year, it’s business as usual (and off-spring as usual). But during the other part of the year, men aren’t particularly sexually interested (and all births are clones of the mother).

      The various matriarchal families want the clones, so there’s a great deal of bargaining that goes on to make sure that the otherwise disinterested men get women pregnant during that time.

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  2. Sigh….

    At least you didn’t stoop to use use boobies as a fundraiser…..

    (Hootin hollerin Daffy Duck departure….)

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        1. As Bob Hope used to sing ” Thanks for the Mammarys” , Since we are getting into udder nonsense I hard to say it.

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            1. It was a pun on his theme song in his later years, “Thanks for the Memories” he ended most of his shows singing it. I have no doubt he would have sang it to them, he was a comedian after all, and un-apologetically Republican and Pro USA. He did USO shows for the troops almost every year.

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  4. Maybe I haven’t read enough as I only remember reading/seeing “bouncy boobs” two places.

    One was a stupid Playboy cartoon where the “caption” involved why women can’t be astronauts. IE The female astronaut was being hit by her own breasts in weightlessness.

    The second was a porn book where the main character (with very big breasts) was running around nude and her breasts were bouncing around while she was running.

    Of course, the second was stupid porn and Playboy’s “jokes” weren’t that funny (or realistic).

    So I guess I’m missing something. :twisted:

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    1. Two others. Dolly Parton made a comment about how is she started jumping around like those dancers, she would wind up with two black eyes. The other was a cartoon with Superman and Wonder Woman being shot at and WW was deflecting them with her bracelets. Superman man says “aren’t you bulletproof?”, so she stopped deflecting them and the results were predictable

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      1. I don’t remember Dolly making that joke (although it was her joke about herself).

        But I do remember that stupid Wonder Woman thing. :sad:

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    2. There was a meme: “Why women can’t fix cars” which showed an extremely well-endowed blonde trying to slide under a car and…she didn’t fit.

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        1. But your arms are further above your gut than your chest, so you can reach more of the undercarriage in that case.

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      2. Can you imagine fanatical feminism in regards to the military and WWII?

        “You need to make those tank hatches bigger. Our military women can’t get in them without scraping their chests!”

        “Sir! Hildegarde is stuck in the ball turret again.”
        The captain sighed, wishing the recruiting criteria requirements for ventral gunners measured height while standing, AND while lying down.

        Lisa was less than delighted when she found out she was assigned to the U.S.S Skipjack, SS-184. While she had no problems with her lower half while dropping down a sub’s hatch, she always came to an abrupt and painful stop when the bottom of her breasts slammed into the hatch coaming.

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        1. That’s not really true. (Natural) Boobs are pure fat and therefore extremely squashable/moveable. As someone who went caving with a number of ladies in possession of umm huge tracts of land I was regularly amazed at the thin cracks they could squeeze through, some that men with broad shoulders and chests could not. “Boob in armpit” was apparently a thing

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            1. What drives me nuts is I didn’t really have much, um, real estate, until the kid. It is all his fault. Granted they’d be smaller if I’d lose about 80#s (not anywhere near Dolly’s size). Still bigger than I was used to. The problem? Never had to deal with the things before. Sure I’ve had 34 years to “adjust”, but I spent 32 – 33 years, without bigger ones.

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            2. I prefer those to unnatural resources. I was hugged by someone who had been augmented. It wasn’t pleasant.

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                1. No, they weren’t. That is what was so unpleasant. I know, TMI. And, yes, we were both fully clothed.

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  5. Oh my stars. Breasting boobily is hilarious. I cannot fathom how someone would mistake that for anything serious. And this is coming from one who has been described (often accurately) as extremely literal (though in my defense, it is literally funnier to be literal in many cases anyway).

    Yes, men get dumped on by leftist/feminist women. Does it suck? Sure does. Do honest women get the same (well, similar enough) treatment? Sure do. Mostly I think it is heterosexual monogamy in general that they hate- see how much they hate happy families especially with a bunch of children.

    And men could complain about our lot. If we were to be wusses about it. Deaths in combat, murder victims, rate of incarceration for similar crimes, suicides, worse jobs (difficult, dangerous, dirty, and/or demeaning), divorce, and so on.

    But those same things that we could complain a lot, at least some of them are things that men deliberately seek out. I will guarantee you that the desire of people to serve in combat is very heavily on one end of the gender scale. Also, the adrenaline junkies tend to heavily skew male. Violent crime and victims of said violent crime are more often male.

    There are far, far fewer females working oil rigs than males. I know of not a single one that does the nigh ridiculous climbs than men do in the power industry- not the in-town poles, the radio towers and suchlike, though a few may exist. In the coal mines where my grandfather worked, there still aren’t many women there, if there are any at all.

    But men choose to do dangerous things, difficult and dirty too, because in a lot of ways we are called to it. There’s a satisfaction in doing something that few other mortals can do. There is pride in doing tasks that are needed and necessary, even if most folks don’t see it.

    There was a rather funny meme going around a few years ago. On one side, it had a screaming man in armor. Standing atop a pile of corpses, probably soon to be one himself, and looks like he’s having the time of his life.

    On the other side, it shows a father with his wife and kids. Little white picket fence. Happy smiles all around. The caption was something like “This is what men are. Both. At the same time.”

    So when some idiot lefty decides to go screaming about how toxic and terrible men are, or women who want to have kids, well, that sucks for the idiot lefty. They’re probably going to die alone and miserable.

    And frankly that sucks for humanity in general. Yes, I know they’ve made their bed. But they’ve also been lied to all their life. That’s the awful thing. They really don’t know any better, and there’s almost no way for them to learn on their own.

    So I pity the fools that are so utterly unwilling to consider the possibility that they might be wrong. They live sad little lives. They’re being used by bigger villains than they could ever hope to be. Then they take out their existential angst and stupidity on the innocent, because they quite literally don’t know any better.

    That said, I’m not above laughing at them when the universe decides to crap on them from a great height. Maybe, just maybe, divine providence will allow humor to break through where facts and logic fail.

    But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

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    1. There’s a certain amount of poetic justice when one of the toxic feminists finds herself in the crosshairs of the trantifa militants. “It’s a shame both can’t lose.”

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    2. “There was a rather funny meme going around a few years ago. On one side, it had a screaming man in armor. Standing atop a pile of corpses, probably soon to be one himself, and looks like he’s having the time of his life.

      On the other side, it shows a father with his wife and kids. Little white picket fence. Happy smiles all around. The caption was something like “This is what men are. Both. At the same time.”

      THIS. So much THIS.

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    5. I hate to say it, but my mind isn’t as dirty as I thought it was. A lot of those covers were, ‘meh,’ to me.

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  7. Well-put and what me and a few others needed to hear even if we aren’t writing that kind of stuff! Seriously, just from my end, writing Lysandra and Edmund torturing some poor soul to death and taking great pleasure in it? No problem! Vincent and Carys being cute as they work through their pasts? Sheesh, even that part takes some work! And for what this has done to the relations between the sexes and those of us who’d like a good happy marriage, well… That’s a subject for another time.

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  9. I grew up with six sisters, five older than me. There is no way in hell a guy could get away with half of what they did, and women are as hung up on boobs as much as men are. There is boob envy among women just as much as penis envy among men. You want to see a bunch of women get catty, just let some large breasted eye candy enter the room. They put hot chicks on those books as well, why? Because hot sells.

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    1. There is the meme of a… er…. comely lass in not-uptight clothing… “Ever since Healer Clara[1] arrived at the village, the women all stopped having headaches.”

      [1] Name might be other than Clara.

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  10. What really burns me is that they blame men for skinny women too. Look honey, make up your mind, either men like boobs or men like skinny women with no boobs and no buns. I know that logic and consistency are cis white male supremicist tropes, but give us a break willya?

    Still most men actually like boobs. I’ve met few, if any, straight men who prefer women that look like young males. Women seem to though — you can never be too thin and all that.

    I wonder how much of this is simply projection like everything else they do. I do know that the status of the male staring makes a big difference. Maybe they’re actually feeling guilty about how attractive, and not so attractive, women can get men to do things for them.

    A couple of years ago a rather busty young women put on a tight top with nothing but a small camera secreted in the, um, space. She walked around NYC seeing how many men would stare at her en bon point. Lots did. all black and Hispanic, the story ran and then disappeared. Wrong kind of letching, I suppose.

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    1. I’ll partly disagree. Men have two ideals of female pulchritude – the Ballerina and the Barmaid. The Ballerina is slim and elegant. Not terribly busty, but great legs. The Barmaid is plumper, bustier, and a plunging neckline works for her.

      What attracts one man is “meh” to many other men. What bugs me more is that the old women’s tricks of wardrobe to conceal figure flaws and emphasize strong points seem to have been lost.

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      1. I’ve always had a “thing” for elegant women and I’m not really “into” big boobs. I do like women that look like women and not young boys,

        I do have to make one change though. I actually did meet Harvey Weinstein, briefly, a long time ago — the wife worked in Television and we met him at a function. Weinstein likes them skinny.

        I completely agree on the misfortune of women losing the art of presenting themselves well. don’t get me started on the women of my age still presenting themselves as though they’re 20.

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        2. I believe the old term was “mutton passing as lamb.” And I agree. At a certain age, one should accept that one is “a certain age” and accept the limitations and powers that go with said age.

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          1. I recall one woman who finally confessed that in spite all that cosmetics could do, the only way to look like you are in your twenties is to be in your twenties.

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      2. I’m an equal opportunity dirty old man. I like both, though I’m not a fan of excessively large breasts.

        Told my girlfriend once that I had seen a woman who looked like her except with bigger boobs. She said, “I’ll bet you liked that.” I said I did. Then, an hour later, it occurred to me that she had meant that I liked the “bigger boobs” part, so I had to go back and explain that no, I just liked seeing someone who looked like her.

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  11. I once had students try to use boobies to try to get me to grade a statistics exam easier.

    February, northern Minnesota…..exam on Analysis of Variance. Course is almost all psych majors, 90% female. The majority showed up in loose, thin, spaghetti-strapped camisoles without bras and leaned WAY over their papers as the work the exam problems. flashing a lot of 20 year old boobage at me. I really had to work to not laugh at them as they were SO obvious.

    The student who flashed me in my office, however, was just a naive 19 year old. She came in for help on homework and when I asked how she was doing when she arrived, she got excited about her new navel ring and just HAD to show it off by lifting her shirt. My office mate was in and her jaw dropped as far as mine. Brenda knew this student (who was also in one of her classes) and gently said, “Honey, you don’t neeed to get so excited and show everyone.” At that point the student realized what she did, turned crimson, and started stammering apologies.

    Teaching public health, one needed to be sensitive to a lot of topics. My first semester at Purdue, I had assigned some readings on appropriate use of medical care in my health policy seminar, and the only male student in the class started the discussion by asking what an episiotomy was. The four women – one pregnant – JUMPED on that one, saving me from trying to explain it and leaving the poor guy green, The modules on maternal/child health in my undergrad epidemiology and public health systems classes were always fun. The challenge was controlling the young women in the class, who LOVED to jump on the topic and see how badly they could embarrass their male classmates. Another time, I had a female student in my epi class ask me a question after lecture about measures to evaluate diagnostic tools (sensitivity, specificity, positive and negative predictive values). I looked around for some scrap paper to show her examples and grabbed a sheet left by the instructor before me on the overhead projector. I went ot start writing and realized that Stephanie’s class was on human sexuality, and she had left GRAPHIC diagrams of external female genital anatomy! On that one, I turned green and stammered, seeing my career flash before my eyes on a potential harassment accusation! Fortunately, the student got a good laugh at the situation.

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    1. “Load the unattended slide deck” is an Army prank that dates back at least as far as the overhead projector.

      BnCO, interrupting: “Lieutenant, is that your personal reconnaissance, or Miss April?”

      Of course,-my- pranks ran more towards helpfully filling out free return cards.

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      1. A more subtle version of this is to re-arrange the slides in carousel and hand them to somebody you just know will not pre-flight it, and then go on TDY. I have no idea why such a specific example came to me.

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        1. Not if you are quick enough, know (or can intuit or sneak) the password (if it’s even password locked), and know how to mess around in PowerPoint…

          Of course I never did such a thing, but if I were to do so today, there’s ways.

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        2. Do you really think the average 2LT isn’t going to leave the thumb drive unattended, or otherwise stick some junior EM with putting it in a queue somewhere? I assure you, Specialist Shamshield is gonna deliver the goods.

          I once assisted with a retirement award for a good senior NCO who was also good friends with my PSNCO SFC “T”.

          Award certificate verbiage does not end with “He is an Outstanding Fuckhead.” Certainly one would not expect a LTC to sign such an epic typo.

          Yes, the retiree did recieve the proper one. Yes, the original got framed and displayed.

          Also read aloud at his retirement. Oopsie…..

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          1. My retirement ceremony left me with a similar taste in my mouth as my HS graduation; it was a disappointing waste of time. On the other hand, what did I expect? I had a commanding officer who tried to screw me over on a deployment tasking, who didn’t listen to any of my well-founded (i.e. according to regulations) and precedented recommendations; so I told him since he didn’t trust my judgment, here’s my retirement paperwork.

            Part of the art of the deal is knowing when to walk away from one (and being ready for it.)

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        3. Back in the day, grad students used to have to load the slides into the projector, and half of them ended up out of order or upside down.

          Now, PowerPoint will save time by giving you your slides out of order and upside down automatically.

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  12. So, I like to read this blog to the family occasionally.
    And my teenagers are going to be extremely embarrassed as I share this one with them.
    Is it bad that I get such a kick from their discomfiture?
    Am I evil?

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    2. No. It is a parental duty to embarrass the young, frequently and with much malice aforethought. And I am really, totally not joking here.

      My justification is- the rest of the world doesn’t give two figs about your kidlets. You do. Thus, in preparing them for an often hostile and uncaring world, you must do these things to thicker their mental and emotional skins before someone else does.

      Because you care. The rest of the world doesn’t.

      Preparing the young ones for the world is a sacred duty. It just so happens to be deliciously fun when you can embarrass them. It’s also a tiny window of time you can get the best reactions, too, so you gotta watch close.

      But seriously. Totally mandatory. It’s in the handbook somewhere, I swear.

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      1. Mom, shortly after I graduated Infantry School. Throws her arm around me and shrieks “my little boy!”

        Drill Sergeant “C”. …. “I see where you get your smartass.”

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          1. More like they’re trying to idiot-proof the world, so even the biggest idiots can do stupid shit without suffering any consequences. Every time some idiot gets hurt being stupid, they want to pass another law. Not to prevent idiots from being stupid, oh no, but to enable idiots to be stupid safely.
            ———————————
            ‘Progressives’ believe everybody else is even stupider than they are. This explains a lot.

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  14. My hubby and I LOVE blue footed boobies. The boobies hold their feet up to their mates to show off their attractiveness. After 37 years, it is so cool to still be courted with esoterica.

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  15. I’m a guy. I love the physical appearance of women, and boobs are at the tops of things interesting. I make no apologies. And It is fun to note such descriptions in fiction. Men notice these things. And a male character will make a mental note of such, as appropriate to their personality. Mind you, as a writer, I would scale such to the personality of the man in question, as well as the style of fiction. After all, we do not describe every thought that runs across a male, or female, character’s inner space. But adventure-oriented literature, with beautiful, healthy, strong women and manly, square-jawed men, sure, why not? It is fun.

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  17. A friend of mine passed around drafts of his first fantasy novel at a party, and was very upset when I found the sex scene and read it out loud. It was contrived, graphic, terribly engineered, and completely out of place in the book, and I could barely giggle my way through it. It was gone in the next draft.

    But my strongest criticism was “you’re writing in a genre you don’t read”. He eventually shelved it, and his first published novel was a techno-thriller set in a Silicon Valley startup. I thanked him for nuking San Francisco. :-)

    -j

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  18. The only time I have seen anything like this was in my description of Carthena in Eye of Argon. She
    is described as “slender with large outcropping breasts”. But..that’s Eye of Argon.

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      2. The exact phrase was “lithe opaque nose”, which I remember due to the implication that, in The Eye of Argon, noses are normally translucent.

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  19. Then there’s the flap over that comet scientist’s shirt. It was a gift from his girlfriend that he wore as his ‘lucky’ shirt, and I’m still convinced that the real offense was that it showed women carrying guns.

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    1. I still think it was plain old mean girl ism and the guy was an unapologetic geek. So they hit him by destroying what he loved, dumping on his great day of triumph, when he wore his favorite shirt that was hand-made for him.

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    2. Well in minor positive news, it gave the seamstress (who was the scientist’s friend) a decent sidejob until wuflu sent it all sideways by making it impossible to get fabric (I think). But I did get some of her last sidejob output – two virtue signalling cloth masks

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  20. Without its being ON PURPOSE TO BE FUNNY?

    And, I gotta say, “She breasted boobily, and tittied on down the stairs” is a hilarious yet still totally effective description. I can SEE the motion in my mind, and I’m holding back tears of laughter just thinking about it again. :D

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    1. There are people who try to be that funny on purpose every day, and fail. If I could be that funny on command, I’d probably write a lot more jokes and find some way to make money at it.

      Oh, who am I kidding. They’e all end up in books anyway.

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        1. I think we’re missing something important here.
          Given the probable provenance of the meme, have we found the fabled feminist joke that is actually funny?
          Unintentionally, perhaps – “Wait, that was on?”

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        2. I think we’re missing something important here.
          Given the probable provenance of the meme, have we found the fabled feminist joke that is actually funny?
          Unintentionally, perhaps – “Wait, that was on?”

          Okay, the “That’s what she said” chatbot that responded with feminist quotes was at least clever.

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      1. Yep, that covers the “breasted boobily,” for the “tittied on down the stairs” we figured that kind of flounce-bounce that some women have managed that gets maximum giggle out of their acreage.

        …Husband and I also absolutely know women who would do that, deliberately, and be giggling like loons inside.

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        1. I don’t know for certain, but I suspected at the time that one of my former coworkers deliberately stepped down hard when she walked because (possibly subconsciously) she enjoyed the effect it had on men. I mean, you could tell when she was within 20ft because of the stomping sounds, and while she wasn’t overly endowed, it was certainly distracting to watch her walk by.

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  21. “…penises of unusual size…”

    Now I am hearing the conversation between Princess Buttercup and Wesley completely differently. :D

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    2. And then there are Babylon 5’s Centauri. The males of that species have six penis which are quite long. One of the male Centauri used them to cheat at cards. :lol:

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      1. The same Centauri also threatened a diplomatic incident when he discovered that the station gift shop sold an action figure of him the wasn’t “endowed”.

        ^_^;;

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      2. Londo, I believe.
        Thrn there was Vir lamenting to Ivanova that he couldn’t get to at least third base with his betrothed. (He managed to embarrass Susan Ivanova, which took real talent).

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  22. Regarding backlash, we may be seeing the early flashes. I’m seeing more negative comments about, “rich, liberal,” women on social media.

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    1. “Karen” was originally an insult in the black community directed at AWFLs.

      Then the culture at large picked up on the term.

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  23. Back in the grad school days, in our “how to grad student” class we were assigned a reading in which some feminist scholar faffed on about “writing from the margins” and how wonderful it’d be when everyone engaged with literature from what she viewed as a marginalized perspective and abandoned the hegemonic center of power.

    In class, the prof asked us to opine on what she meant, and I was first to be called on. I gave it as my opinion that although it wasn’t what she thought she meant, if everyone started taking what she regarded as the marginalized perspective, it’d very soon no longer be the marginal one. You’d simply have a new dominant center of discourse and a new set of marginalized views/people.

    Professor looked at me over his glasses and simply said, “No.” Next in line was the Good Answer he was looking for. (It was one of those experiences that presages one’s immediate future and is only recognized as such far too late.)

    Of course, “no” didn’t change the course of the next 20 years, nor did it change the fact that, at that time in the humanities, “marginalized” already wasn’t.

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  24. Breasting boobily? Is that from ChatGPT when told to write erotica? No it couldn’t be because ChatGPT steals from what’s in it’s database, and I can assure that ain’t in there. That movie scene of Richard Pryor trying to teach Gene Wilder how to act black (to go with his totally preposterous black face makeup as if it were an actual disguise) comes to mind.

    I do really love the image you chose to illustrate this post. I suspect with its title, this post will be guaranteed to attract the most hits.

    BTW, for those who wonder about the paradox between men who love well-endowed women and women who feel they must look like famine victims with good hair and makeup, that trend started when homosexual men took over the heights of the fashion industry and wanted to have models who looked like adolescent boys (to suit their own fantasies). So, women who have been fooled into that line of thinking, are catering to the tastes of homosexual males.

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      1. I kind of love that description.

        And yeah, I’ve met a woman or two who would have totally filled the bill, with deliberate intent.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. There are rare occasions that call for a writer to lay on boldly sexual topless glory with a trowel – but this is a case of laying it on with a trowel and having stuff fall off the surface and drop to the ground.

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    3. I recall the introduction to a book about high fashion, and the author describing how someone at a restaurant said in awe-filled tones, “Oh Alexander McQueen is at that table!” The author turned around felt pure disgust and rage. She wanted to strangle the fat, sloppy guy who looked nothing like what he encouraged women to be.

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      1. If you are built like the current Princess of Wales or a Gibson girl, Alexander McQueen does you every favor in the world.

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        1. Of course, that is probably because he himself is dead (since 2010), and his business is run now by people who like money.

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  26. I may be one of the few adult males that likes written erotica.

    When it’s written well, and dear GOD do some people absolutely flunk basic human anatomy…

    A friend of mine observed (female, if that matters) that “men could never survive the emotional abuse women inflict on each other, and women could never survive the physical abuse men inflict on each other-and we should be grateful that we stay in our lanes.”

    We’re seeing what it looks like when people stray out of our lanes. Most men don’t handle emotional stuff well, and that’s what is being thrown out by these harpies on a regular basis. Not that long ago, most of these harpies would have been shot down by the wives, sisters, cousins, and quite a few single women that know these men because that kind of abuse is wrong.

    Now? If you’re male (and straight, and white) and you attract the attention of these harpies? Be assured that you will have your ego and emotions destroyed. You will be shunned. You will be slandered in ways you cannot defend yourself against. And if you auto-Darwin yourself in the process, they consider that the ultimate victory over you.

    And nobody will defend you because they can’t have that spotlight turned on them.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. And because y’all think you’re tough and can handle anything as a general rule, because that’s what men do, you don’t tell the women who care about you.

      Ok. Maybe you’re also a bit afraid of what will happen when those women who care get really mad. Y’all have studied your Kipling, after all.

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      1. In a lot of ways, the covenants have between men and women have been broken, or at least badly damaged.

        I know most men wouldn’t be emotionally open to women, because the current cultural memes are that women will use that against a man at some point, because they can.

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  27. WHEN the worm turns? I think it already IS turning. Men are bailing out of the dating market…although I’ll add that the people who are having success in the dating market aren’t making YouTube videos griping about it. Nevertheless, I think the Grade B dating material on the male side outnumbers the Grade B on the female side.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Modern feminists resent depictions of attractive females. And seeing the kind of women who are feminists these days, it’s easy to understand why.

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  29. And I’ve never found anyone — not one person, not even a beginner — describing a woman by talking about her pert breasts and stiff nipples.

    I actually have, but based on other parts of the writing, I suspect it was a woman trying to write what a man would want to read. Although “erect nipples” is what I’ve seen more often.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. I’ll point out that males aren’t the only group being mocked. A lot of what the “transwomen” do in their performances “being their authentic selves” is a lot like blackface, only with women as the target.

    Liked by 1 person

    2. That’s what infuriates me most about the movement, is the exaggeration and focus on external characteristics of femininity.
      I had a ‘transwoman’ come into the self-defense class I help teach at a university a few years back – the dude was 6’4″ and probably 200 lbs, and he made the women in class extremely uncomfortable by insisting he practice with them – all the time.
      Now, we often have men and women work with each other on self-defense techniques, but this guy just acted like a creep, and I was never happier to see a student go. He was so in-your-face about his makeup and extremely flashy women’s clothing, and I found it insulting that he could get away with getting into women’s spaces. You can bet that I didn’t use the bathroom or the locker rooms in that building that entire semester. Nope. No way. He gave me ‘predator’ vibes, straight up.
      Are all trans people like that? Heck no. And everyone has a right to learn self-defense, absolutely, but that guy was definitely trying to see what he could get away with on the campus, and that torqued me.

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      1. That big of a guy, I’d preferentially have him be the attacker when teaching newbies self-defense. Newbies tend to lack the control to pull strikes properly (of course). After a few “errors” Mr ‘I am a woman’ Predator might take his stalking elsewhere.

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        1. We do a lot of quite painful joint locks and throws, which I always demonstrated on him to his partner. The problem is that he preferentially chose to partner with the most timid girl in class, and I didn’t notice until we were nearly through the semester, which was 100% my fault as a teacher; I hadn’t noticed her discomfort early enough, and thought they were friends taking the class together. I certainly will not be making that mistake again!
          On the other hand, that girl did come to me after the final class and say that she felt way more confident that she could make techniques work because she’d made them work on him.
          But yeah, we also use the big strong men as ‘attackers’ in class; my brother, for example, who has simian grip strength and will not budge unless the women actually get it right. There always seems to be one big guy, and half the time he’s a computer programmer who’s built like a tank but has no coordination or physical skill whatsoever. We almost feel bad about using them as practice dummies.

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          1. Thanks E.C. You just described me before I got into martial arts myself. (USAF doesn’t do squat for training members in physical conditioning, proper eating, or self defense.)

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            1. I mean, I was a fat, weak, sickly bookworm before I started martial arts. Now I no longer trip over my own feet and while I wouldn’t call myself an athlete, I’m strong and faster than I was. I’m working on the ‘fat’ part. Still a bookworm, but at least I’m healthier now!

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  31. I had the impression that for a well-bred male a woman’s feminine endowments might be properly appreciated (especially when intentionally displayed for attractive or distractive purposes) but to comment on them was considered crass or uncouth. Except perhaps in an appropriatelty intimate setting. Since
    I am not so proud of my anatomy as to invite public critique (as per Ray Stevens) I appreciate the same restraint from well-bred females.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. I have made the joke a few times that Straight Men, Lesbians, and Babies all understand the value of boobs, and it is only Straight Women and Gay Men who dislike them.

    There is more than just a joke there. I’ve noticed that there seems to be a lot of women who cannot wrap their head around the idea of boobs as sexual signifiers / sexually charged, and if forced to notice that are utterly horrified by it. And this isn’t just “doesn’t swing that way”: straight men aren’t attracted to male sexual signifiers, but they also generally aren’t horrified that such things exist.

    I’ve even seen this from one of the Huns (pretty sure I know who, but name redacted to protect the guilty) in a discussion some time ago about clothing and social standards she came up with an idealized demure outfit which was (roughly (IIRC)), a long fully covering skirt so that nothing between or of the overall form of the legs could be seen….

    ….and topless.

    This is such a wonderfully perfect female-myopic and willfully blind view of male attraction that it could just about only come from a feminist. And come to think of it the hun in question was a feminist in her younger years, so I guess rats in the head are just that hard to remove.

    But digression aside, note some of the earlier phases of feminism with the “free the nipple” campaign, and assorted attempts to insist that boobs are just a thing and shouldn’t be seen as sexual. Fast forward a few decades and it is clear that men are not going to stop liking boobs, and we start seeing systematic campaigns to eradicate boobs from the public consciousness, followed soon thereafter by the trans push where they get eliminates a little more permanently.

    It is probably also relevant that fashion conscious women are getting their ideas from fashion designers. Read: gay men who are the other group which disdains boobs, and tries to find the most boy-like women they can whenever they need a model.

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    1. ? also relevant that fashion conscious women are getting their ideas from fashion designers. Read: gay men who are the other group which disdains boobs, and tries to find the most boy-like women they can whenever they need a model.
      ……………

      Oh. That is why I despise high fashion. I thought it was because so called high fashion is stupid to the extreme. That designers were competing on who could produce the stupidest designs.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. That designers were competing on who could produce the stupidest designs.

        Well, they are now. Half the things that have gone down the runway for the last 5-10 years can’t even be worn as clothes.

        So it’s morphed from a specific hatred for the female form, into a general hatred for humanity as a whole.

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        1. That designers were competing on who could produce the stupidest designs.
          Well, they are now.
          ,,,,,,,,,,,,

          I’ve never thought the designs were good. Not ever. Not at that level. Guess I’m not “high society”.

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            1. Okay, at this point they have to be trolling, just to see how stupid they can make it before they someone finally calls them on it.

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            2. My initial response at those “haute couture”…ummm…things is to laugh hysterically, and if I actually saw them on someone I’d probably say “You have got to be kidding! Are you blind?”.

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              2. They do look like whisk brooms, don’t they? Actually they’re dresses with full skirts, at various angles (including completely inverted in one case, the pale blue one). No idea what holds them on; superglue?

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                1. Oh, I figured that out after a minute, but once you’ve seen the whisk brooms you can’t un-see ’em.

                  Fashion designers have a problem of their own making, one detailed in ‘Melancholy Elephants’ by Spider Robinson. There are only so many ways to make dresses within the constraints of practicality, comfort and good taste, and they’ve all been done before. That design space has been filled. Therefore, in order to create something that stands out as New! and Different! they have to design dresses that are impractical, uncomfortable, distasteful and/or just plain silly. Like those.
                  ———————————
                  “Ehh, on second thought let’s not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.”

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                  1. I thought maybe you’d recognized them; I also saw them as whisk brooms on first look, did a doubletake and took a closer look. I didn’t read the Spider article (story?), but he makes a good point. And if you ever saw the “Lucy” episode in which they’re in Paris and Ricky and Fred passed off potato sacks to Lucy and Ethel as the latest Paris fashions, and the result when a designer saw them, you’d see how it fits that perfectly. In fact, it may have been that episode, which I saw as an adolescent, that cemented my attitude about haute couture and the people who slavishly follow fashion decrees.

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      4. First, it’s competition to get noticed in the news–the more shocking the more coverage.
        Second, it’s competition to get noticed as “daring” and “creative”, which increases the value of the brand with the fashion “journalists” and with the big-spending status-symbol-obsessed suckers–I mean customers.

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      5. Even in the 1960’s, I thought the fashion magazine my mother subscribed to, “Harper’s Bazaar”, misspelled “Bizarre”. I wouldn’t have believed it could get worse – but it did.

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    3. It is probably also relevant that fashion conscious women are getting their ideas from fashion designers. Read: gay men who are the other group which disdains boobs, and tries to find the most boy-like women they can whenever they need a model.

      Watching most fashion shows on YouTube just makes me sad in all the wrong ways.

      Too many fashion designers either want boy-like women or want to “smash” traditional norms of beauty.

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    4. I saw this in a Twitter feed a few weeks ago regarding standards of feminine beauty –

      “Everyone’s telling you to ignore the male gaze when they should be telling you to ignore the male gays.”

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      2. I once saw in Playboy* a description of actress Sandra Bernhard as ‘A woman of unconventional beauty’. She is (or was at the time) an accomplished comedienne and actress, but she has IMNSHO a face like a foot after it’s traveled through the cow pasture a few times. I thought they were being charitable.

        In my defense, there was limited access to quality reading material in the Central Pacific in the early Nineties. And I was reading it for the articles and the (sometimes Science) fiction. And, to be frank, the boobs. It was around this time that I realized I had entered Middle Age – the centerfolds were born circa the time I graduated from high school . . .

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  33. Well… There was a pretty funny RPG series called Macho Women With Guns.

    One of those wossname, negative modifiers? a player could take for his character to offset bonus points elsewhere was “top heavy”. And yes. I own copies.

    Let’s see: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38781/macho-women-guns

    And then there’s the Masters of the Raging Book t-shirts I made that sold out at the Special Libraries con. (Whips, biker gear, guns, books, and the top-heavy mod)

    Why do these pool noodles assume women are not making this art, too? Or that we do not want to see it?

    I’ve reached the point NOW that I want modesty in dress and popular representation in public imagery to make archetypal Victorian sensibilities look like the acme of visual decadence. And this nonsense is part of the reason why.

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    1. The black and white cover art for the box left quite a bit to not be desired. On the other hand, I’m sure it was less expensive to have done than the covers on the Barbarella comics; which are good, funny, and titillating.

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        1. I loved the name of the third one -“Bat-winged Bimbos From Hell”.

          Sounded like an appropriately schlocky exploitation horror flick.

          Never played it or read the rules. But I was rather surprised when what had originally been a trio of thin rules pamphlets got turned into a full-size hard cover rulebook quite some time later.

          Liked by 1 person

  34. I used rack once while having a POV character, a veteran, check out a server. That’s as close as I got. Got me thrown out of a romance writing class.

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  35. This mocking of male writers has the quality of German jokes about Jews circa 1936: wholly unconnected to reality, showing only the teller’s hatred.

    Running jokes just about always disconnect from reality after a few iterations and become their own thing that, later, look utterly inexplicable to people who didn’t live through the process. Dana Carvey was both amused and mystified that his George H.W. Bush impression got more and more compliments for how “accurate” it was the more bizarrely surreal he made it. (In one instance, he did not enunciate at all, and simply did Bush’s vocal tones, and the audience was laughing uproariously.)

    Or, heck, just get a Zoomer to watch an episode of Happy Days. You will almost certainly have to explain why the audience cheers and laughs at Fonzie, because it won’t make any sense to him.

    The joke may have started by mocking a real writer. I would not be shocked if Ian Fleming was the initial example (though to call his prose “bad” would be stupid, since people who last read it decades ago will still remember whole passages verbatim). But then the joke took on a life of its own, and the virtuosity spiral became such that this Karen went with “breast boobily” and all the other Karens clucked in approval.

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    1. Aye, it reminds of (former) MN senator Al FRAUDken who claimed to be a comedian when his ‘humor’ was to belittle anyone not in lockstep with his Stalinism – and with the ‘right’ (LEFT) audience, it got laughs. But it wasn’t actually funny. There’s humor to be had on and at the expense of the right – but it seems only the right has the sense of humor to actually do that sort. See: R.Reagan. “I’ve left instructions to wake me up – even in a cabinet meeting.”

      Liked by 1 person

  37. I’ve seen the joke thread (or rather, collected screenshots of it) about “male authors can’t write women” and…it WAS intended to be a joke. There were, if I recall, a few examples of some well known thriller authors who had some really cringey and anatomically impossible scenes that were actually in their books (and they also were allegedly married to women), but…overall it was meant to be hilarious, silly, and poke fun at ALL purple prose. And it was really funny, especially the examples of some things that actually made it into published works. Also if I recall correctly, there was a sibling-thread about “women authors who can’t write men” that took it in the other direction. I, at least, got the impression that it was meant to be in the same category as that website out there that collects and gives awards for “most horrifyingly written sex scenes in an actual-holy-cow-they-published-it book”. Which is in its turn a companion to the “It was a dark and stormy night” award site. It was supposed to be silly and poking fun at some of the astonishingly purple prose that makes it past trad-pub editors (which really, are any of us surprised at that?)

    Alas, there were of course lefty feminists out there who took it seriously. Because those types have had their senses of humor–if they ever had them to begin with–surgically removed.

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    1. I think either it is removed during the initiation process, or wasn’t there to begin with, and they quit faking it. I noticed when I was in college the first time that when someone embraced a Great Cause™, their sense of humor died.

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  38. Heinlein’s “Number of the Beast” had as a min character a very well endowed young lady. Her husband always knew when she was upset, as her nipples went flat. And RAH did know how to write ladies and make them interesting. Funny, that, …

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