Waiting on Guest Post

Posted on by Sarah A. Hoyt

From someone I was a fan of, long before this blog started or I came out of the political closet.  He’s more qualified than I to comment on Brexit. And today there must be comment on Brexit.

Tomorrow I might extrapolate from this to the spirit of the times, the world turned upside down (or right side up, depends on your perspective) and perhaps an explanation on why Donald won’t run after he secured the nom.  He’s arguably more intelligent than Hillary (not hard, even before alcohol ate her brain) and he’s perhaps not a fan of defenestration as it applies to him.  It’s possible.  (Do the man a favor and put in someone who will run already.)

Anyway, I’ve already said enough that I’m going to have SO MANY political arguments during my visit to Portugal it’s not even funny.

So, I’m going to compound the trouble I’m in with this, stolen from the book of faces:screwyouguys.jpg

And now I’m going to write because this evening I MIGHT have to make scones.

 

152 thoughts on “Waiting on Guest Post”

  1. Nasty thought.

    Scotland says “We want to remain in the EU”.

    England responds “Good Bye”. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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    1. So did Northern Ireland. Maybe something odd will happen and Ulster will come back into the fold. Doubtful but you never can tell.

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    2. That was my thought last night watching the vote come in. Scotland narrowly voted down leaving the UK, and now have voted to state in the EU. Another vote on independence is likely on the way.

      Couldn’t help but think of a future where England finds itself in a war with the EU, with EU member Scotland on the border. Recipe for interesting times.

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        1. Ye Auld Alliance will work out no better for Scotland this time around than it did the last (starts counting fingers) 6? times.

          But fools to their folly, and dogs to their vomit…

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                1. WWII, The Great War, the Franco-Prussian War … about the only times they’ve had notable success is when they import foreign Commanders-in-Chief.

                  Well, okay: Charles Martel was a Frog.

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      2. Scotland might find the required open immigration thing a counterargument to jumping ship on the UK, but if they did, would Britain have to rebuild Hadrian’s wall?

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  2. Stayed up last night watching the ITV feed from England which was being broadcast on one of the C-Spans. At some point they cut to their reporter in the U.S.. He observed that it is quite possible that, reflecting upon the Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders phenomena here, that people are tired of having a disconnected intelligentsia tell them how to live and what to do.

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    1. That’s similar to what I was thinking. (Besides, “why would they join the EU in the first place?”) I really haven’t paid attention. I get a couple of “remain” people on my facebook and have seen a couple of arguments for it. Mostly those are variations of “Horrible people want this, are you horrible? I’m not horrible.”

      I think that “disconnected intelligentsia” might be what’s going on. Because it does seem to be very much the same as in the US in that, it’s not just that people are not willing to consider your concerns, you’re a bad person for even having those concerns. And we all know that bad thoughts from bad people should never be justified by being taken seriously.

      Right?

      And that leaves those of us who tend to be slightly appalled by populism banging our heads on the wall because if someone had planned it, some agent provocateur, what would they have done differently?

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      1. It was the echoing trauma of WWI. “We must destroy nations and patriotism, so there won’t be war again.” The 20th century gave it the lie, and now the 21st might finally get over the bullshit. I hope.

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      2. There’s also the fact that the people arguing against joining the EU in the first place were proven right in every particular.

        But they were just cranks who got lucky, and it’s much too late to change course, anyway. (Raspberry)

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      3. Most of the ones I’ve seen have been ‘I had plans to leave England or go to england (or are in england from somewhere else) and this will screw that up and the economy will suck because reasons.”

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        1. I’ve seen one of those, from someone currently living in California, but who has a business in England, and didn’t become a British citizen when he had the opportunity because it was too costly just to be able to vote there.

          I’ve also seen an article on a tech journalism website profiling someone who apparently makes special-purpose calculator apps, who commented that if you can’t or won’t do the math, you make bad decisions, leaving the EU being provided as one example.

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        2. Some of the (fully adult) military brats my husband knows are the same way– they were born in the UK and have dual citizenship, and were planning on using that to go to England and then to one of the “good” countries in the EU.

          That this is kinda a good example of why the English might not want the EU kinda passes them by…..

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      4. Most has seemed to be that there would be difficulty leaving the UK for work or economic fears.

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    2. Ding ding! Did he mention we’re also tired of children in adult bodies throwing temper tantrums about nonsense? Screw micro-aggressions I’m ready to show them what aggression actually looks like.

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      2. Such as the ‘screw the old’ mindset that floating around out there saying they ought to be prevented from voting

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        1. If a person is suffering from dementia, particularly in the more advanced stages, I do have some questions as to whether the person should be voting. But I believe that this is not really the what lies at heart in the argument presently being made against the enfranchisement of the elderly.

          If there is such an argument in England that the elderly should not have been allowed the vote I have not heard it yet. But if it is being made by those in favor of Remain it lies the fact that the elderly came out rather solidly for Leave. The elderly, with a few exceptions, actually know what England was like before things got so messed up. This makes them rather dangerous to those who want to do is sell the idea that the country was never better than under the EU.

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          1. Yep. I’ve been seeing a number of people bemoaning that the people that voted to leave wouldn’t have to live with it. Have seen people advocating revocation of rights and others wanting leave voters to wear identifiable markings.

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          2. Given the incredibly low number of sincerely demented people around, I don’t worry about it too much.

            I’m much more worried about people being declared “demented” when they’re not– had a nasty run-in with my cousins-in-law when they were having an intense “mom is clearly going senile” thing where the latest evidence was something I’d done. To be precise, put a turducken in the oven without unwrapping it.
            ….
            That is because I was following the directions. It was a cook-in-the-bag.
            Similar issue with “mom ate raw bacon”.
            It’s the stuff you don’t even have to refrigerate, because heating up a frying pan for one little old lady is a pain.
            And this is the child and spouse that lives *right there*…..

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            1. I would rather not argue. Having gone though taking care of someone who came to the end of their life with dementia I discovered that it is far more common than I had thought. I not talking about an occasional forgetfulness or strange action when overloaded.

              People are not that inclined to speak about this at any length until they know that you, too, are familiar with what they are sharing. We have discovered that those who have not seen dementia in action and the toll it takes on a loved one may not believe the extent of its impact.

              There are helpful people from the local political parties who are coming to the nursing homes to help the elderly submit their ballots. Aside from what I have personally observed, let me point to the election in Florida in 2008. There were people from nursing homes were testifying in court that they were told ‘to just punch the second hole.’ I have drawn two conclusions: there are people who think it is well worth their time to make take advantage of the situation, and that it is a problem.

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              1. My grandmother didn’t recognize her favorite daughter by the end. She thought that I was my mom. (NOT her favorite daughter.)

                I’m familiar with it.

                I have heard about the predators at nursing homes, too– they won’t even just target those who are suffering dementia, they’ll just never give the “patients” their ballots at all. That is a major problem.

                But people with dementia managing to get a ballot, and voting on their own? Not so much.

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    3. Prezactly. Something about electing members to the EU Parliament but having all the rules made by bureaucrats and appointed councils and experts. And when people voted down teh EU Constitution, it got stuffed into a treaty and imposed anyway. Not a way to win fans. And then add in “You will take all these people from Eastern Europe and the Middle East and You will Like It!” Yes, I can understand why people might get a bit tetchious.

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        1. Yeah… people are prone to point and say “it’s *that* thing that upset them” when the truth is that it is All the things.

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          1. Nonono. It was all racism and xenophobia. There could have been no policy issues or bad actions by the EU

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        2. Ah, and the one they held up (because they knew it would only energize the Leave camp) that effectively eliminates toasters and teakettles.

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      2. The icing – not only are you required to take the refugees – you are not to impose upon them the requirement to accept living under your laws and to respect your culture. But forbid you do not accept their culture … pay no attention to the crimes behind the curtain …

        Yup, and even so you are expected to like it.

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    5. That’s nonsense. HOW could people ever become tired of having a disconnected intelligentsia tell them how to live and what to do? What’s the point of even having a disconnected intelligentsia if not to tell people how to live and what to do?

      According to a CNN article in September of 2015, the total number of government employees was 21,995,000

      Of the 21,995,000 employed by government in August, 2,738,000 worked for the federal government (including 596,500 who worked for the Postal Service), 5,092,000 worked for state governments, and 14,165,000 worked for local governments.

      although that number likely doesn’t count contractors at activist groups, news disseminators, think tanks and universities who advise the government on what laws, regulations and policies are essential to let people know how to live and what to do.

      You put any sizable portion of that disconnected intelligentsia out of work, with loss of benefits and pensions and our economy will take a hit. Then we’ll be in another Great Depression and widows & orphans will starve, just because you lot want to decide for yourselves how to live and what to do.

      I call that mighty dang selfish.

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      1. You put any sizable portion of that disconnected intelligentsia out of work, with loss of benefits and pensions…

        Should it ever occur I would great them with, ‘Welcome to the masses.’

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    6. Listened to some show or other on the local Catholic radio, and they had a guy on observing that the (he didn’t say it this way) nasty, snooty pr*cks they put on TV to scold people about staying in the EU probably did more than any argument from the “leave’ group.

      I haven’t researched it, but the host didn’t correct him so I’m pretty sure it’s true, the guy claimed that the bureaucrats running the EU tend to marry each other and have their kids do the same. Which makes sense from a social angle– same way military marries military, even if it’s another country’s military– but given Europe’s history is a bit squicky.

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      1. I kept seeing stuff supposedly from the Remain side that seriously came across as “Vote to stay, because it’s selfish and unfair not to let people stick it to you!” Um….

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        1. Back when I was in High School a lot of guys used that basic argument very effectively on a number of girls (who would become classified as “sadder but wiser”).

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      2. “they had a guy on observing that the (he didn’t say it this way) nasty, snooty pr*cks they put on TV to scold people about staying in the EU”

        What, like Barry Obama?

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  3. I want a scone. What flavor?

    I think someone in London should dump some crappy French wine in the Thames in celebration. A London Wine Party?

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    2. Flavor? PHILLISTINE. Scones are unflavored, served with clotted cream (or a reasonable facsimile, which I can do) The fact that all of them will be low carb doesn’t detract. I think the guys and I will have high tea tomorrow.

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          1. Oh, do they ever! I love the Broadmoor. If my books ever win the Dragon and I become rich (or at least very well off), I’m going there for a long, luxurious, lazy weekend.

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          2. And the Brown Palace. It was a school year tradition my grandmother tried to start. Alas, the cancer got her first but my mom is doing it with my daughter.

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            1. Sunday brunch at either the Broadmoor or the Brown Palace is wonderful. Pricey, but wonderful. Good for (very) special occasions. The Broadmoor is more scenic, and has sheltered parking, but I love the coffee at the Brown Palace.

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      2. Bah. That’s backwards continental talk.
        ;)
        Scones are airy sweet dough, deep-fried and served with honey butter. Sometimes with a bit of cinnamon and sugar as well.

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      3. Exactly right. If you want “flavor” add small pots of fresh blackberry jam, really good grapefruit marmelade & lemon curd on the side to dollop on top of the cream. If you must.

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    3. I was taught to make scones by an Australian girl in a travelers’ hostel in Fort William, Scotland. That alone made the trip to the UK (ostensibly for the purpose of attending the ’95 WorldCon in Glasgow) worthwhile

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  4. Breaking up the Union is no laughing matter, and this may well end up with both Scotland and Norther Ireland leaving the Union.

    It’s also economically risky, and it also looks like we’ve given a push to both the French and the Dutch to seek a leave referendum.

    History is in the making, and this would be a great plot twist in a novel. Weakening Europe while Russia looks on is like playing chicken. It’s not going to end well.

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    1. Does this weaken Europe? As an European by birth, I rather doubt it. It weakens the EU, but that was a bureaucratic idea, or a way to reverse the results of WWII by fiat. It wasn’t Europe. It still isn’t Europe.

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      1. I’ve never hear any good reasons to have the EU.

        It is “funny” to hear “because of Russia” to keep the EU as I thought that was NATO’s job. :wink:

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        1. I heard it when I was European and training to be a diplomat: “We need to be one big country so we can compete with the US” In that statement is enough misunderstanding of the US, of economics, of history and even of competition to write several volumes.

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          1. I saw that too. Along with a dollop of “if the Americans can do it, it can’t be that hard and we’ll do it even better.”

            I knew the EU was in trouble when France violated the financial rules years ago and basically said “Yeah, and what are you going to do about it?” They weren’t punished, the other nations just looked at their hands and grumbled, and it was over. Everything since then has been inertia, like a bad marriage kept together because nobody wants to move.

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              1. The EU’s debt limits served the same purpose of a stripper’s G-striing: to make you believe there was something interesting underlying all the spangles.

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                    1. Because by the mere moving of our lips, or fingers, we can cause images to pop into the minds of others.

                      Not only are we not going to use this ability responsibly, the results are sometimes unpredictable. :D

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          1. I dunno – what do they lose if Russia takes them over that they aren’t already ceding to Brusselscrats?

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            2. The people don’t lose much, but the politicians lose *at least* their jobs, and maybe their lives.

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            3. So after the success Europe experienced first being run by the non-CCCP Allied occupation forces and then the NATO countries with or without France, notable both with heavy US presence, they collectively decided it was a brilliant plan to put the German Banks in charge, and /SURPRISE!!/ that’s not worked out so well.

              They did the whole reversing history thing slightly out of order, but I think having the Shirtless Tsar run things is officially next on the list, and after that they have to find a descendent of the Corsican dude to have another go.

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        3. It was supposed to the the Common Market on Steroids. NAFTA is from that same era. They were going to be the United States of Europe and everything. But they seemed to have went down a path not quite like the Articles of Confederation, and economics isn’t quite like having an enemy you’d just fought a war with next door. The structure of the thing, what I could comprehend, was, ah, interesting.

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          1. And, it was designed to be incomprehensible from the outset. The US Constitution has something like 5,000 words–The EU version of that document contains over 70,000. You would think they hired George R.R. Martin to write the damn thing, or something.

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          2. Yeah it was clear that the EU constitution was the Articles of Confederation with even less teeth. If anyone actually paid attention to history they’d have known this was going to be a Charlie Foxtrot of colossal proportions from the get go. Of course they’d have had to studied the history of that annoying republic across the Atlantic. Heck even our intellectuals don’t seem to study it any more, why should anybody else?

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    2. But why would the French leave? My cynical view (as a former EU person) is that the main purpose of the EU is to finish what Napoleon tried to start, without resorting to weapons. How would French parasites get their subsidies without the EU?
      The Dutch are a different story, though it’s not clear to me that Wilders has a large enough backing to pull it off.

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      1. I’ve seen report that the support for Frexit is slightly above 61% although I cannot say why.

        Explanations abound.

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      2. And here I thought the common thinking was the main purpose of the EU was to finish what Hitler started without resorting to weapons: a Europe united and run by Germany (if you have someone other than Hitler that’s fine because I’d prefer a different comparison…Bismark maybe?).

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        1. Well, I think France may have thought that they’d run the EU but found out that Germany is in a better position to run the EU.

          IE The person who pays the Bills is in control. :evil:

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          1. I have already seen two “Hilter finds out Brexit won” videos, one “pro” and one “anti”.

            The pro has Hitler ranting about how this is going to ruin the Fourth Reich and it is time to start planning the Fifth.

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    4. It might also end up in reduced German arrogance and mucking about in other nations’ affairs. At NRO’s Corner, Carrie Lukas of the Independent Women’s Forum reports:

      While loathe to admit it, Germans at some level suspect their country’s role in the discontent in Britain. Speaking to German friends over the past several years, it’s been difficult not to come away with the sense many view the EU as an extension of Germany policy and as a respectable outlet for German nationalism that has been suppressed since the end of World War II. A new path to German greatness, if you will, camouflaged by warm and fuzzy words about “Europeaness” and immune to complaints of skeptics, all of whom immediately are labeled as right-wing extremists – the kiss of death in German politics.

      For me, one of the takeaways from the referendum is the reminder that people care deeply about things other than pure economic interest. On the train this morning, I listened to a left-wing British woman complaining bitterly about the stupidity of her fellow citizens. Her points were all about lost EU subsidies for construction projects and the indignity of having to use the “non-EU” line at passport control when traveling to the continent (I’ll save a spot for you!). It seemed not to have occurred to her that more abstract concepts such as democratic legitimacy, self rule, and national identity matter to people as goods in themselves.

      http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/437075/brexit-german-leadership-aghast-brexit-they-helped-cause

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      1. Noticed somewhere that J.K. Rowlings and Neil Gaiman are moaning about the Brexit results. I don’t have any stake in Brexit, but, well, I never read Rowlings and I’d already stopped reading Gaiman.

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        1. I long ago stopped worrying about the political opinions of artists who didn’t push them on my in their work to the detriment of their art. It started when I realized that I EXPECT actors to have the common sense of a concussed turnip. The job of an actor is to emote on demand, without real cause, and (in the case of film actors) out of context.

          I admit that I don’t watch Jane Fonda films. This is because, in spite of heaps of praise lavished upon her by critics and film buffs, I have yet to see any evidence that she can actually ACT.

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          1. Jane Barbarella can’t act? Didn’t she win an Oscar for Klute?

            Or are you suggesting that a film actress portraying a prostitute isn’t actually an act?

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          2. Three types of intelligent actors:
            Ex child actors. They were chosen largely for phenomenal early mental maturity, which is pretty much a definition of intelligence. Granted, the Harry Potter kids just seem to be no more than bright.

            Ex models and other women who went to Hollywood with nothing going for them but their looks. Given how many women that is, the winners tend to be very smart.

            High Mensa types who just decided they HAD to be AC-TORS. James Woods and Ben Stein.

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            2. I’ll point out a few interesting examples of exception to the “dumb entertainer” stereotype:

              Mayim Bialik, neuroscientist and actress
              Graham Chapman, medical doctor and Monty Python actor
              Brian Harold May, astrophysicist and Queen lead guitarist

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            3. I could suggest a fourth type: those such as Robt Downey, Jr. who have had their butts kicked well and thoroughly by reality and survived long enough to learn from it.

              I would actually suggest that many actors are highly intelligent, it is just that they are so surrounded by enablers, suck-ups and toadies that they utterly lose touch with reality (they have people for handling her.) Add in that few of them have any significant post-High School education (not that that means what it once did) and you’ve many bright people who’ve had their intellects stubted by lack of development and by an environment that fails to challenge them.

              I might also suggest that most guys fail to grasp how much intelligence and discipline is required for a woman to look beautiful over any significant period of time — from make-up to understanding principles of lighting, lenses and film stock to maintaining a rigorous health regimen. This typically leaves little time for other intellectual exercise.

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              1. There seems to be a high number of actors who are so dyslexic they are functionally illiterate. Francis Ford Coppola says he needed for Marlon Brando to read “Heart of Darkness,” but he ended up having to read the book to Brando aloud. Lindsay Wagner too, though she seems intelligent she can’t read.

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                1. Or finds it very difficult. Can do tough math and physics of someone reads the material to her. And Wagner says see-and-say is crippling to dyslexics, the connection of letter to sound has to be made clear.

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                  1. The Parents had taught me to read using Phonics before I entered school. When I entered school the officials promptly informed them that they were amiss in assuming that they could take the place of experts trained in the latest of scientifically developed pedagogical methods and that they had broken me. The educators then proceeded to try and re-teach me with the see and say method. That was when the trouble began…

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              2. I might also suggest that most guys fail to grasp how much intelligence and discipline is required for a woman to look beautiful over any significant period of time

                I’ll second this…take the time to watch two or three YouTube videos on a basic skin care routine than think about how much time that would add in the morning and the evening. Then realize model/actress type beautiful women have been doing this since at least 15 if not earlier.

                That’s before makeup, fashion, exercise, etc so multiply it by a factor of 3-5. Sure, once the habit is established (and they did in HS or earlier), but that will only save some of the time.

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        2. Several years ago, I was watching Pixar’s “Cars”, and while I was enjoying the movie, I was struck by the disconnect between the values displayed in the movie itself, and Hollywood values. They portray values because they know (or think they know, in the case of “save the Earth” and “end the War” and other similar values) that people will flock to see the movie…but their own lives are pursuits of greed, pleasure, and starting rumors for tabloids, so they can obtain and/or maintain fame by any means necessary.

          Heck, now that I think about it, even the “values” they try to shove down our throats aren’t Hollywood values!

          It hasn’t quite stopped me from watching movies, to be sure, but every so often, it’s colored the way I’ve seen movies since then.

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        3. Rowling gets my “being a nice lady” exception– what she says doesn’t match the philosophy that she writes, and what she says is in the same sort of category as “my, you have your hands full!” or “enjoy these years!” from people in the grocery store.

          I can’t remember what Gaiman did, but it was enough of a dick move that I never did start reading him… Hm, wish I could remember, probably best for my blood pressure that I can’t.

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    5. I dunno. Historically, it seems to me that Russia has had few territorial ambitions, at least to their West, but reacts savagely when attacked.* See their relations with the Ottoman Empire, Napoleon, Hitler. Even the expansion of their sphere of influence post WWII was most likely to establish a buffer zone against further encroachments on the soil of Mother Russia than to promote the institution of Communism. That the EU and their (expanded, in contrast to their commitment upon the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact a quarter-century ago) NATO enforcers are rattling sabers once again on Russia’s borders seems to me more destabilizing than anything the Russians are up to.

      If you don’t want the Bear to rip your guts out, don’t poke the Bear.

      *Even Russia’s territorial expansions in the Orient seems to me to be more an issue of competition with other expanding empires over pawns in the ‘Great Game’ than direct threats to their Western neighbors’ territory.

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      1. “If you don’t want the Bear to rip your guts out, don’t poke the Bear.”

        That’s what the world told Poland in 1938, but did Poland listen???? Noooooo … nor did Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine nor Crimea.

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        1. 1930s Poland – again, establishing a Buffer Zone. Better to have Hitler’s boyz hanging out in Warsaw than tramping back-and-forth on your border.Baltic States the same. *Not* saying it was good for the peoples of those states, but a logical result of machinations by (some of) the Great Powers. Crimea? Again, an example of two competing Empires contesting Oriental pawns.

          Or are you speaking of recent developments in the area? So, People of Ukraine elect a Russophilic government. West (U.S.) can’t have that, so foment ‘color’ coup and install Western puppet gov.’t consisting of a *lot*, if not a majority, of neo-Nazis. Said regime starts messing with disaffected Eastern provinces, who ask Big B(r)other for help. BB, seeing its access to Black Sea threatened, is only too happy to assist.

          Note: I’m not saying that the Russians are the ‘good’ guys in this, but the West doesn’t have clean hands in the debacle either. And that the US media aren’t giving us the whole story but are basically regurgitating Administration talking points. If you base your views strictly upon what your old Uncle Sam is telling you, you’re likely to get surprised when Reality bites yo on the behind.

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          1. You’re both right and wrong about Russia, especially modern Russia. It’s about two things: 1) Power. They want to be a World Power again. They’re tired of being Those Barbarians. And unlike Pre-lunacy Ivan Grosnie they think the way to get it is not be exceptional but be fierce. 2) They ARE expansionist by our lights. They’re reclaiming lost territory by theirs. One of their versions of “Once Upon a Time” is “Long ago, when the Tsar lived in Kiev.” They view most of the former soviet states as Russian, and as having always been Russian. So no, it’s not Nato rattling the sabre. Putin’s been doing it since he invaded Georgia in ’08 and was doing it more quietly before then. (Though Georgia wasn’t a preferred target. That one WAS a ‘kick the bear’ but Russia was already spoiling.)

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            1. And don’t forget that ever since Constantinople fell, Moscow is supposed to be the destined Third Rome that should be ruling the world. A lot of Russians take this very seriously, in much the same way that many people in the US kinda believed seriously in manifest destiny until we really did get all the way from sea to shining sea.

              But a lot of Russians hate Ukraine, as it’s inconvenient to their destiny that it exists at all and is an independent country. Pointing out that really, Ukraine has more historical claim to rule Russia than Russia has to rule Ukraine? Oh, yeah, that torques off Russians of pretty much all stripes. They don’t think “Oh, that’s humorous, ha ha.” Nooooooo. They don’t think, “Oh, Kyiv is the cradle of Russian Christianity and the Russian Camelot where all the legendary heroes lived, so we should support Kyiv and love it.” Noooooooo. Either Kyiv has to be very definitely under Russian rule, or it needs to stop existing so inconveniently.

              Now, again, that’s not everybody. The anti-Ukraine propaganda that Russia keeps running has actually made some Russians more interested in liking Ukraine and buying Ukrainian goods.

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          2. It is likely Hitler wouldn’t have moved the border so far inward had Stalin preserved it as a buffer by demanding respect of the integrity of Poland.

            While I never take Uncle Sammy’s claims without sufficient salt to give Mayor Bloomberg conniptions, I am also familiar with the history of the Polish, Ukrainian and Kievan peoples in regard to Russia.

            Russia’s quest for a warm weather port is a historic fact beyond dispute, and their history does not distinguish them from other peoples in regard to only retaliating when first aggressed against.

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            1. As I understand it Operation Barbarossa was basically what Stalin had planned in the other direction for a few years later – Stalin had always planned to attack and take the rest of Europe from Germany, especially once Hitler conveniently pre-conquered it all for him and placed it under a unified administrative system.

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              1. In fairness to the earlier stated premise, Stalin wasn’t Russian, he was Georgian. And unlike the Tsars before him, his election was not an expression of the Will of the Russian People.

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                1. Fair enough – it’s certainly true the real Tsars were generally not interested in invading and taking over Germany, then France, and so on, though their purely Native Russian elevation to power was also decidedly not relevantly connected in any way to the will of the Russian People.

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    6. As I already stated above: Frexit is slated for next year.

      Yes, leaving is risky. Staying is risky as well. Life is risky.

      As to breaking up the Union?

      And another piece of red has left my atlas today …

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  6. There was no compelling reason to form the EU, and I suspect that pretty soon lots of people across Europe will realize there’s no reason to stay in it, either.

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    1. It seemed like a logical extension of the EEC, which did make a lot of sense–much as Europeans tend to not understand how large America is, Americans tend not to understand how small European countries are. A common market allowed for greater economies of scale and avoiding having to go through customs three or four times a day. Then they decided to make it political, and it all went downhill from there.

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      1. “Americans tend not to understand how small European countries are.”

        I believe P. J. O’Rourke said “You can’t swing a cat without sending it through Customs”.

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          1. So when the cat (being a predator) jumps after the swinging mouse (not Mickey) is that an act of war, or merely an unfriendly act.

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        2. He took a second story flat
          In which he could not swing a cat
          But such was never his intent
          His only object was low rent
          And to swing cats he never meant.

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          2. My two local felines have noted that they do not appreciate this centripetal microagression. I response to this they have organized a nap in in the local pool of sunlight…
            #CLM

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        1. Dangit! posted before I finished…
          It is a graphic of each state compared to the country who national GDP that state is roughly equal to.

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      3. Yes, a free trade zone is a sensible thing. An undemocratic “federal” government is not. I’m in the middle of reading St. George Tucker on governments; it occurred to me that of the various categories he describes, “aristocracy” is the most accurate description for the EU. Certainly “democracy” isn’t.
        Maybe the EU will revert back to the EEC to save itself. But I doubt it. I don’t think the politicians involved have sufficient functioning brain cells to get there from here.

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          1. Hopefully the EU situation doesn’t deteriorate so far “that the Yanks are coming. . . over there” again.

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  9. I dunno.

    I am ideologically conservative, but personally have so little skin in the game, and so little to gain that instability seems attractive.

    I think the EU may be bad for the people of Europe, but I do not really care about the people of Europe. It is not my job to manage their business, and I wish them the joy of it.

    I dunno.

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    1. It’s not so much that I don’t care about the people of Europe as I see it as them and their business. I’m somewhat pleased that the UK is pulling out of the EU, but it’s still them and their choice.

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      1. There’s no money in subjects and empire. They want their system to work, they can make it work. It isn’t as certain a mess as if their business was being run to my taste.

        I care about rule of law in the United States. Overseas, I have a lot of sentiment that someone ought to murder the communists.

        No form of government will work if the population underpinning it won’t have it. No outside force can make a population sustain a government by doing the necessary hard work.

        Their stuff isn’t really important to me, and I can’t be bothered. I’d be delighted if they reciprocate.

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