Older Son has an assigment from his English teacher — the same English teacher who recently downgraded him for using PRONOUNS too much (not that I noticed. No unclear antecedents. She just apparently wants the character name in every sentence. Because THAT is professional writing. She did, after all, ONCE sell a poem to a pays-in-copies magazine. And no, this is not intended as disparagement of people with only one — or no — publication credits. It is intended however, as a shove-back at someone who invokes that one credit as her ‘authority” for writing well.)
So, yesterday he came into my room bitching, bellyaching and moaning over this speech he has to make. I stopped pounding keyboard long enough to glare at him. “Since when is speaking for twenty minutes a problem? You normally don’t stop speaking.”
“Oh, yeah. But… I’m supposed to make a speech about my culture.”
This, of course, brought my writing to a complete stop as I tried to understand what this might mean. Because surely she can’t mean that Robert has a culture! Unless, of course, she means that Robert’s “culture” is that thing that happens to his socks when he forgets to put them in the hamper and lets them marinade under his bed for weeks. Somehow, I don’t think that’s it.
So, right now I’m sitting on my hands to avoid sending his English teacher a sharp note that starts with “That word doesn’t mean what you think it means.”
Oh, I’m not stupid. I KNOW what she thinks she means. Why do I know it? Because time and again idiots have told me I should teach Portuguese to the boys because “it’s part of their culture.” Which, it patently isn’t. It’s ARGUABLY part of their heritage — in the sense many of their ancestors spoke Portuguese. It’s part of my cultural background to the extent I grew up and lived there till young adulthood (speaking of which, I will one of these days answer the post of the gentleman who asked me why I don’t write about Portugal. Yes, there are reasons. Several. Some of them rational and having nothing to do with the fact that I was “a stranger in a strange land”.) Or at least it’s part of what makes me me. And I can see the advantages of teaching the boys another language, of course — except that neither of them is really much good at languages, and both of them refuse to learn languages from me — among others, the ability to speak to my parents and family. BUT — objectively — how can Portuguese have anything to do with their culture? They have been born and raised in the states — mostly in Colorado — in a fairly middle class family with parents in intellectual professions. If they’re part of any culture it’s the middle-class-geek culture.
But oh, we’ve gone so far from sanity. In schools these days, culture is now equated with genetic background. Which is why you can’t criticize any culture without being told you’re being racist.
I find this a bizarrely narrow view of the human condition — particularly considering most of the people proposing it are far from being conservative — one that pressuposes we are the result of our genes ONLY. In this view, I’m interchangeable with any other female born in the North of Portugal. Or if you want to be really narrow, I’m the same as any other female born in Aguas Santas, Maia, at around the time I was born. Which is patently absurd. Not only am I not the same, the twelve girls in my class in the village when I graduated fourth grade — those who are still alive — are nothing like me. The one I possibly have the most in common with is my earstwhile “bestest friend” (from first grade. No, we haven’t ever got mad at each other. We just have an ocean between us) who married a Frenchman and lives in Croisy Sur Andelle in France. What I have in common with her is that we both had to adapt to a different culture and language, both of us are married to the man we married… twenty very odd years ago, and both of us have two children roughly the same ages. If you think that’s too little, you should see what I have in common with the other people.
And yes, I am ranting — and possibly foaming at the mouth. This idea that culture is genetic denies everything I’ve done with my life, everything that I’ve tried to make of myself. It also denies the reason I fell — madly — in love with the United States when I was an exchange student here at seventeen. Yes, it was love at first sight. Why? Because coming from a culture where — at least back then — conformity was strictly enforced by everything from the old ladies in the village to the fashion police, I found here I was free to be whatever I wanted and to reinvent myself in any way I wanted to.
At the other end of the tunel that this vision of culture creates lies a stratified, regimented society more rigid than the former castes of India. The type of society where you grow up to be a clerk class B because that’s what your ancestors were. The type of society NONE of us wants to live in. So why would people push it while teling children their future is limitless and that they should be able to express themselves in any way they want to? I DON’T KNOW. My only guess is that they don’t examine the assumptions in the things they say. Perhaps it’s not — coff — part of their culture.
Dear Ms. once-published poet:
Regarding your attempt to have my son, Robert, discourse on the subject of his personal culture, we find ourselves somewhat perplexed, not to say dumbfounded on how he is to comply with this. Looking “culture” up on dictionary.com, I found the following definitions of the word:
| 1. | the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc. |
Robert really has never concerned himself with arts, letters or scholarly pursuits — he sold his soul to rock and roll and his heart to science fiction — and if you think he has manners, it must be because you haven’t seen him demolish the greater part of the turkey on thanksgiving. Therefore, I should warn you that this boy ain’t got no culture.
| 2. | that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc. |
Again, as reference to HIS particular culture, please see above above. We are doing the best we can to civilize both boys, but let’s face it, as teenage males, they’re just past caveman stage in that they have learned to walk upright and have mastered fire (though I still wouldn’t trust them with this too far because of what happened to the hamburger patty and the toaster oven. Details too gruesome to share.) We hope eventually they will be excellent in arts and manners, but we aren’t waiting with sandwiches by the phone.
| 3. | a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture. |
Despite the vast quantities of food consumed by our sons, and Robert’s tendency to refer to his brother as Fidel Comix, dictator of Ericba, (mostly because no comics are allowed to escape Eric’s room. Not even in inner tubes) Robert is not, to the best of our understanding an independent nation. In fact, he hasn’t even attempted pseudo-independence declarations along the lines of “you’re not the boss of me.” (Mostly because he’s very afraid the retort would be “well, then. I’m not the laundress of you, either.”)
| 4. | development or improvement of the mind by education or training. |
While this would be an admirable topic for a twenty minute speech, Robert is absolutely convinced this is not what you mean. Please advise? He will be happy to discourse for twenty minutes — or indeed hours — about the how-to-write books he’s devoured and the sf he’s read.
| 5. | the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture. |
Again, despite the fact that Robert is a larval writer, equipped with several characters-in-head, he doesn’t appear to be a group of any kind. Of course, if he keeps hitting the hamburgers, this might change. Or at least he might acquire his own zip code. Would that make him a culture?
| 6. | Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another. |
The culture he’s been brought up in is US, western, twenty first century, perhaps fitting best within the geek group. It is not uniquely his. If this is what you meant, why didn’t you ask for a discussion of “local culture”; “school culture”; “middle class, US culture” or whatever? There isn’t a Robert Culture. (Though it makes a neat name for a rock band.)
| 7. | Biology.
|
Here you might possibly have something. At least if you assume Robert is a typical teen — which he isn’t. Yeah, there was the incident of the socks, once, but by and large his room is clean. He even makes his bed — with hospital corners — every morning before going to school. So, if you want this type of culture, I recommend Eric, who is forever bringing plastic cups full of milk to his room and then forgetting them. Just give us some time to get the microscope out (yeah, like you don’t have a microscope at home, too) and let Robert talk about ERIC’s culture. That should make for an interesting talk.
| 8. | the act or practice of cultivating the soil; tillage. |
| 9. | the raising of plants or animals, esp. with a view to their improvement. |
| 10. | the product or growth resulting from such cultivation. |
–verb (used with object)
| 11. | to subject to culture; cultivate. |
Robert once grew a Mango plant. However, he had to go on vacation and I watered it, resulting in its turning black and mildewy. I do that to other people’s culture.
| 12. | Biology.
|
While Robert can be considered an interesting living material introduced into a culture medium, we’re not sure what approach you wish him to take to speak on this. Would it be speaking of himself as a living organism? Or would you rather he expounds at length on his incursions into the SF/F community culture? He is writing a story about a pirate who reproduces by mitosis with the result that he’s always stealing his own treasure… Then there’s the space opera about the millionaire, his 100 bio-engineered trophe wives, a bio-engineered mentally improved winged cat and an intelligent toaster. (the cat and the toaster kidnap one of the millionaire’s wives to demand rights for all sentients. But that’s just the beginning.)
Of course you don’t mean any of the above. What you do in fact wish is for Robert to speak about his ancestors, and preferrably make it as interesting as possible. You are in fact convinced that the ancestry makes the person. Robert knows how to ace this assignment, and so do I. All he has to do is speak for as short a time as possible about his father’s puritan ancestors who settled in New England and for as long as possible on the people you’d think are exotic — my ancestors. If he can manage to throw in a hint of oppression (Unlikely as it might be. My branch of Almeidas aren’t generally scared. We’re the people other people are scared of) and hard luck, you’ll be putty in his hands.
Yes, Robert understands this, and so do I. And he’ll play the game for points and grades, as I did in my time.
But just once I wish we could talk to you — really talk — and examine those assumptions you are imposing on the children. You are teaching a gifted class. Why would you assume that each person has an individual “culture” which is genetically determined? And why would you want to indocrinate the children in this horribly limiting idea? Is your vision of the perfect world the middle ages, where the son of a cobbler must grow up to be a cobbler?
I’m not innocent or naive. I know that the dead hand of the past weighs upon all of us more than we’d like it. The understanding that we are creatures of our genes and our ancestors’ ice age — or before — adaptations to a long vanished environment (my friend Dave Freer sent me an article the other day about how people see ANIMAL shapes clearer than other shapes, for ex) is with me always, yes. I am also aware that the very language, which informs our thoughts, is the product of generations of accretion and erosion and carries within it the scars of long-forgotten traumas (in the region of Portugal I come from, slang for pig and blond is the same word — Russo — and the Rus tribe of Vikings raided that coast extensively. You figure it.) I’m even more aware — for various reasons — that a trauma can take several generations to work itself through a family. My friend Charles thinks this is the origin of the biblical “sins of the father” and seven generations thing. He says in psychology it’s believed a major trauma takes seven generations to resolve itself in a family tree. I don’t know. I haven’t had time to fact-check him. But he’s usually right in these factoids.
BUT all this you could say is the result of the human condition and the civilization we are immersed in. It does not result in individual cultures. Nor does it mean that an individual can’t transcend his place of birth and its culture, change it all together, and stretch wings towards the distant skies (and hopefully the distant stars).
When I was a child in Portugal bubble gum came in one flavor. Tutti Fruti. It was a vaguely sweet flavor that made a nod to banana and cherry and who knows what else. A flavor that didn’t linger and made no particular impression. Each piece of gum tasted exactly like every other. They came off the machine that way. Children are not bubble gum. And they aren’t all tutti fruti. It is pernicious, wrong and possibly immoral to teach them that they’re stuck with the language, habits and beliefs of their parents, or even of the wider group they were born into — let alone the language, habits and beliefs of their distant ancestors.
By all means, have the children talk about themselves and even about what makes them unique. But don’t saddle them with the idea this is a “culture” and therefore immutable.
Please, think about what you are doing, and allow the children to be what they need to be — tuti fruti, perhaps, some of them, but also mint and green apple, and the occasional, wild bit of cinnamon.
According To Hoyt 
Soooo…. why aren’t you sending this to that sterling example of the educational system? *twinkle*
And: Have I told you, lately, that I love you? *bows and scrapes before the all powerful (and downright snarky) Sarah*
And: I’m going to my first con this year. As a participant, probably, in the writer’s workshop… that is, if I can ever finish my submission… eek.
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Hey Mama Taz,
by all means….send the letter. Then prepare for the inevitable snooty [did I say snooty? sorry I meant snotty.] reply.
:hugs:
Wolfie
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Oh, my…
This is a lovely entry in the “letters not sent” pile. I’ve got a couple myself, as the mother of a (gasp!) teenage boy who doesn’t have perfect teachers or parents.
Following down Robert’s teacher’s road gets you the folks who only want to listen to “authentic” music, and who only believe that you should play the instruments of your (yes, you saw it coming,) “cultural heritage.” In other words, if you aren’t a Scot, you have no business playing the bagpipes. And they only want “authentic” food.
Hogwash and Horsefeathers. The proper antidote to this idiocy was written more than two decades ago by Len Bloom, Dan Goldberg, and Harold Ramis.
“We’re all very different people. We’re not Watusi, we’re not Spartans, we’re Americans. With a capital A.’ And you know what that means? Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We’re the underdog. We’re mutts. … But there’s no animal that’s more faithful, that’s more loyal, more lovable than the mutt.”
What’s more, people lie about culture even more than they lie about genetics. (And yes, they lie about genetics. One study in Britain showed that the father named on a birth certificate – most often the woman’s husband – didn’t match the proper bloodtype in 2-14% of birth certificates. The low number was for stable marriages, the high number was for less stable situations.)
People tell grandchildren that their great-uncle was kicked out of church because he was a dairy farmer who couldn’t get to service, rather than that he was a fire-breathing atheist who told the minister to “take all his puling lies with him.” People tell their children that of course they didn’t support (name awful political idea that was current twenty years ago) because they knew it was wrong. People lie about culture.
And I think that culture evolves because of the whitewash. People sneer at Victorians, but I think that the urge for one-upmanship or “gentility” or whatnot is an economic and cultural engine nonpareil.
Laura
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Re: Oh, my…
My kids are 100% Heinz 57. My ancestors loved other cultures. Or at least specimens thereof. Up close and PERSONAL. So did Dan’s. Heck, even Europeans are a lot more blended than one would like to think.
Countries in Europe were not sealed since at least the Roman empire — and often before. There were merchants, priests, missionaries, scholars and just people who had to get out of their area because they were in trouble all along the line. England had formalized trading with Portugal since the 11th century and in fact long before that. For a while there, I get a feeling my region of the country was a dumping ground for the ne’er do well sons of English families — remitance men who left behind their genes and quite a few words in local dialects. And, of course, Portugal was a crusade land from the 8th century or so to the 12th. Crusaders were often French and German. The reason they were there was of course the Moor occupation — though mostly Berbers in my region.
Anyway — there is no such thing as a “pure” nationality, much less a pure culture. The mind boggles at people who think there is. It’s like taking geneology as more than a fun hobby, as gospel truth. As you pointed out, people lie. And who knows what great-great-grandma did with the traveling peddlar behind the kitchen door? Not me. Not any of us.
Um… I’m wondering if Robert can do a presentation on “homo sapiens” culture. I’m fairly sure they ARE that. At least unless the thing with the part Nehanderthal kid in the north of Portugal is true. (And that, you know, would explain a lot of things about my two.)
Of course, rest assured Robert won’t. He’ll do what he has to do to appease teacher and get that grade. But I can dream.
Dan thinks he should do a presentation on “writer culture” since there IS one and we’re … uh… a little odd.
Sarah
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Re: Oh, my…
hmmmm maybe Robert could do a discourse on species homo sapiens…subgenus educraticus asswipus. :BEG:
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Re: Oh, my…
“Dan thinks he should do a presentation on “writer culture” since there IS one and we’re … uh… a little odd.”
::snicker::
Seriously, this might bear looking into.
“The only rooms in our house that don’t have bookshelves are the bathrooms. It’s not because people don’t read in the bathroom, it’s because the humidity is bad for books.”
“If I want to know where a word comes from, I’m told to use the OED. Or the paper encyclopaedias. The atlases are organized by type, and then by year of publication, or in the case of the star atlases, by year of precession.”
“My parents, as self-employed intellectuals, don’t get regular paychecks. So they’ve learned to budget, and have passed this on to us. Royalty checks, even from the best of publishers, don’t arrive as soon as calculations are made. Checks from contract firms are usually two to six weeks behind the submitted billings, if you’re lucky. So even for very large royalty checks, we have small celebrations, and my parents are very strict about budgeting from day to day. This means that we know how to do all kinds of home and car contracting, and that we all know the basics of sewing and cooking.”
“One writer’s necessity is another writer’s luxury. I’ve spoken with textbook writers who subscribe to six different science journals, and don’t count the books they own, but measure them in the hundreds of shelf-feet. I’ve also spoken to journalists who own few books, but have standing library privileges on three continents.”
He could do twenty minutes on the culture of the self-employed intellectual, easy. ;)
Laura
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Re: Oh, my…
I want to move in with all of you. My family and friends look askance at me because I own “too many books” (and not because I ask them to carry the boxes up 3 flights of stairs — I now hire people for that). I’ve only got 2 rooms full of books at the moment, and about 30 or so boxes in the attic, waiting for shelf space. (and yes, the books in the old house caused us to require a house jack because the main beam was sagging from the weight.)
Magazines go in the bathroom :)
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I really believe you should send that.
Truly.
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Amen.
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For what it’s worth, I agree with the others about sending the note.
I personally think that a presentation on the SF/F community would have been more interesting to me when I was his age than most of the bits that I had to sit through in school.
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Send the note and post the response.
And I want you to be my best friend, or at least write my notes to my kid’s teachers for me.
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Don’t send. Do mock
When I was Robert’s age I had a teacher who asked me to do a project tat was equally asinine. I seem to recall I had to make some talk about a composer I liked and what his or her or their music meant to me. I could have chosen a punk band or classical opera or anything in between. Problem was I really really didn’t care (and still don’t) about music in a way much beyond “it’s nice in the background” so I couldn’t extract any feelings or anything else. Oh and seeing as this was pre-internet days I couldn’t go and google something about a random band and say their life inspired their music blah blah blah. So I talked about the virtues of silence and/or the absence of noise. It was a very quiet talk…. especially the 1 minute we spent listening to silence’s greatest hit “3 minutes of total silence” until the teacher told me to stop being so silly.
To that end I would propose that Robert discuss the culture of Colorado and in particular the liberal elite that he finds himself trapped in. “My culture is a bunch of granola chewing former hippies driving Priuses who think they are saving the world by doing so…”
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Re: Don’t send. Do mock
“My culture is a bunch of granola chewing former hippies driving Priuses who think they are saving the world by doing so…”
*grins* That’s not all Colorado – just Boulder.
(says the CU-Boulder alumnus)
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“Lady” Dawn on Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
Thank you-
This was thought provoking and appropriate, especially since I’m taking Social Studies in the Elementary School right now. I’m writing to ask permission to please print this and bring it to class. I hope in doing so, it will help at least one future teacher stop and think and refrain from assigning something like this.
FYI- one of the 10 National Council for the Social Studies thematic standards is “culture.” Of course, the way it’s _supposed_ to be taught seems to be more on the lines of all peoples have cultures and cultures interact with each other. On the other hand, most teachers seem to settle for the easier method that Robert’s teacher seems to be resorting to, with predictable results.
Now some families do make a big deal out of where they came from, but not all do. It’s nice, as a philosophical thing, to let the children who do care about where their families came from express this interest, but think it through teachers … what about the one’s who don’t care or don’t know. I wish teachers would think through their assignments more thoroughly before assigning them to help alleviate nonsense like this.
Good luck-
“Lady” Dawn
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Re: “Lady” Dawn on Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
Lady Dawn,
See, I think the idea of studying “cultures” is pernicious in and of itself. At best that study — divorced from historical study — is puerile. Sort of like looking at the patterns on the wings of a butterfly and going “oh, how cute” without having any idea if those patterns evolved to make the butterfly blend in in the forest or whatever… At worst it devolves to the kind of nonsense where because other cultures make beautiful lace or whatever they must be better than the culture you grew up in.
Look — a culture is NOT handycrafts and rites of passage. A culture is not what people wear and what they eat or even what percentage of the population has donkeys in their living room. Yet this is what I’ve seen in the worsheets on culture that my kids bring home. It is ALL I’ve seen.
Seriously, a culture should not be studied. Not in schools. History should be studied. Kids’ personal heritage should not be banned, if they want to make presentations on it, just like their hobbies or the books they enjoy should not be banned from presentations. I’ve often thought a really cool unit of study would be “Do you know your first ancestor to come to this country? Do you know his/her story? Bring pictures and share.” I think that would be neat. I love reading these stories, and one thing you can be sure of is that everyone in your classroom either has ancestors who first came here or are themselves immigrants. This is part of our COMMON heritage. (Yes, yes, even Native Americans have those. They were genetically overwhelmed by European stock. Unless you’re teaching in a reservation — and sometimes even then! — chances are there are immigrants in their family tree.)
But cultures… sociologists spend years studying ONE culture and I submit to you they get it wrong 90% of the time. (Margaret Mead [sp]!) The only/best way of studying a culture not your own is to go there and immerse. Ideally for a year, though you might get a lot in six months. I did that when I was young (not just with the US.) Please trust me when I say there are things you won’t see/understand till you’ve spent a couple of months at leastliving in another culture. No textbook, no sociological study can make you UNDERSTAND the culture at a distance. You might gain some understanding, but you will not understand it. Mind you, a year or two abroad or a year or two of tramping around the world is an experience I recommend to everyone — though xenophobic #1 Troglodite doesn’t intend to do it — because THAT will give greater awareness of your own culture, just like learning a second language will teach you your own better.
You want your kids to learn other cultures? Well, elementary school is far too early, but the highschool kids should be supporting exchange programs.
But classroom tours of other “cultures”? No. I’m sorry. The best effect you can expect to achieve is “Oh, cool, they make painted clogs.” The worst effect — because of the sanitized view you get, of necessity — is our kids assuming that every culture but our own is pure, innocent and beautiful. Don’t get me started on the noble savage nonsense. Don’t. Read my friend Dave Freer’s blog (he’s on my friends’ page) if you want the rant I won’t post here. He did it somewhere in the last few weeks.
Sure, sure, have kids show off playing bagpipes. Have them show off cool African sculptures. BUT never tell them that they now “know” the culture. And never, no matter what the directive, believe that you’re teaching them “cultures.” That way lies lunacy and the sort of international misunderstanding that consists of thinking that people in other countries live just like we do, except for their painted clogs.
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Re: “Lady” Dawn on Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
I love you idea for a unit on (paraphrased) “My Ancestors Coming to America,” as it would be a great way to teach some useful research skills and to learn interesting stories (because you’re right, this kind of story is fun), especially to high schoolers as they would be able to go through immigration records if they wanted/needed to. On the other hand, they might run into the problem my family has- the ancestors came over pre-Ellis Island and just in time for the 1870 census that got burned up, oops.
I happen to agree with you for the most part on the teaching of culture- it’s the application of _how_ to agree with you, in the wonderful world of state frameworks a teacher’s show this agreement what’s making me spin.
For ex: from the Massachusetts History and Social Science Curriculum Frameworks, I (as early childhood (preK-2 grades)) will have to teach some of these gems.
Second Grade seems the worst (its focus is world geography):
2.7 On a map of the world, locate the continent, regions, or and then the countries from which students, their parents, guardians, grandparents, or other relatives or ancestors came. With the help of family members and the school librarian, describe traditional food, customs, sports and games, and music from the place they came from.
(with more on the same vein for 2.8 & 2.9)
This one from First isn’t much better:
1.9 Explain that Americans have a variety of different religious, community, and family celebrations and customs, and describe celebrations held by members of the class and their families.
May I say, ick!
But what’s a teacher to do- in this state I’m obliged to teach this dreck, which I happen to think as history/culture as tourism at its worst, but how to make it less awful. Advise Please?
I do like, especially for older students but younger ones too, showing the connections between the historical events and what the historical artifacts left behind (primary sources) say the people of the time thought about an event. It’s nice to lose some of the editorializing across the centuries.
Thank you for spending so much time replying to me, you have much valuable insight and I enjoy seeing a new point of view.
“Lady” Dawn
P.S. On Robert- how about have him expound at length on his Puritan ancestors on his father’s side. While I find this obnoxious, tracing Puritan or Pilgrim roots here in the northeast is considered important for reasons I don’t fathom, so if he were in school here, this would be a perfectly acceptable speech. Then, he will then most certainly be able to describe persecution and hardship in the Mass. Bay Colony among other things.
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Re: “Lady” Dawn on Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
Replying to myself- bad form sorry- forgot something-
On travel, YES!
I want to, I really, really want to!
Dawn
(who is probably starting to bore people)
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Re: “Lady” Dawn on Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
How do you make history/culture tourism less awful in the early grades?
Excellent question. I just about spit when I saw some of the stuff on the Iroquois league in my younger child’s textbook. Sanitized to the max. Unrecognizably sanatized.
One way to do this at a lower elementary level is to talk about things we share with those close to us and things we share with strangers. People close to us come over when the house is messy. Strangers we invite in only when the house is neat. The items of culture that get shared out are likely to be the things we’re willing to show strangers. We share favorite pieces that we think others are likely to also enjoy. What you’re going to talk about is like that.
If you play in someone’s front yard for twenty minutes, you get some idea of what their house looks like, but you don’t know what it means to live in their family. The culture bits will give kids a little tiny glimpse of the outside, but not what it’s really like to live there.
The other way is to talk a little bit about geography and climate in regards to food, if food is one of the shared items. So that it’s not just “what games and songs and foods do they play/sing/eat?” It’s “What used to grow extra well there? How was it cooked? What was the fuel?”
And if you have any time, then you can mention the green revolution. And how people aren’t limited to a single food item or food grain any more, and have foods that are more resistant to disease, so more people now eat better than have ever before in the world.
Laura
all for the changes in culture that come from culturing the fruits of cultivation.
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Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
Sarah, if it makes you feel better, this nutty idea is not new. Poul Anderson wrote a story years ago about a young man who had to do a project on his ‘cultural heritage’ which was Chinese. The problem was that the *only* thing Chinese about him was his name. [Very Big Evil Grin]
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Re: Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
I must confess when Eric brought a map home from Kindergarten, having been instructed to “color the areas your ancestors came from” he went back with the map fully colored and a note on the bottom saying “Yep, even the seas, if you go back far enough. Heck, we’re openminded. Send us maps of other planets and we’ll color them too just in case.”
WHAT is this obsession with where everyone comes from? I’m not disparaging history-learning (that would be pretty coming from me!) but I think we should learn about the history of the WHOLE world, not selected portions of it. As for one’s personal genetic/mental heritage… it’s like underwear. We all have one. But the people who are obsessed with displaying theirs to the world always make me wonder if perhaps they shouldn’t be looking higher.
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Re: Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
Yeah, for example, I’ve got Polish, Russian, German, Swedish, and Finnish ancestry, which basically means that, at different points in history, every one of my ancestors’ countries have been at war with each other. Hmmm… that little tidbit in itself might explain why they *left* their home countries and came here — to get away from a bunch of senseless European wars and start over fresh.
Y’know, just to get a little philosophical here, I always thought that the key to the American Dream was that it doesn’t matter where you came from, it only matters where you’re going and how you’re going to get there.
Just my two cents.
Bob from the Bar.
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Re: Multi Culti Tutti Fruti
Ha haaa!
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Why not play the game in a way she doesn’t expect? Have the kid say he asked about his ‘heritage’ and quote you blasting it out of the water as you have here, that he has no quaint European accent or neat embroidered costumes or odd dietary habits, and then firmly say that his culture is the here and now of America.
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Cultural Heritage Rant
I’m with the previous commenter.(commentator?) Let him point up the imprecision of the assignment gently so he doesn’t end up on the teacher’s **** list, and then give them 19 minutes on living in Colorado, IN THE HOME OF A WELL KNOWN & PUBLISHED WRITER. Let him talk about all the time his mom spends talking via computer to her readers. Put the smug so-and-so in her place. And let your rant be published across the land, to shake up other teachers.
I liked the quote from ‘Stripes’ too. I’m a big time mutt, and lower middle class american is the only culture I could expound on with any factual reliability. Basically, so is your son, although I’d probably strike the ‘lower’, so let him go on about the same basic stuff everyone else in the room already knows about, with the exception of the fame of his mother.
Or, better yet, let him print out some of the comments made by some of the residents of Sarah’s Diner about the fates of some of the former teachers your sons have had and read snatches from those! (I’m an evil minded person.)
Best regards,
a frustrated would-be beta reader.
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Rant
I love the letter.
I posted a link on my blog.
I’m pessimistic however…partly because of experience and partly because of experience and observation of what this guy says:AT
http://www.coyoteblog.com/
****************
I don’t know anything about DI and haven’t seen the data and so can’t comment on its effectiveness. But I can say that if it works, there is no way it will be adopted in public schools. Public school systems are run first for the administration bureaucracy, second for the teachers, and only about third for the students. Anything that serves the latter but reduces the power of the former will never succeed, again because the incentives are not there for better performance. Only school competition will allow such new models to be tried.
*********************************
DI means Direct Instruction. More about it here:
http://www.projectpro.com/ICR/Research/DI/Summary.htm
and here:
http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/honestft.htm
so…send the letter…or not.
If you send it your son will probably be harassed and punished..because the teacher will be embarassed…not that he isn’t already.
Either way nothing positive will happen regarding the educational establishment. To improve education in the US the whole educational system needs to be torn down…and rebuilt from the ground up.
EvMick …who’s wondering what ever became of DarkShip Thieves?
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Re: Rant
First of all the important stuff — DarkShip Thieves is currently waiting its turn, after Gentleman Takes A Chance which is inducing hot editor breath down my neck, as anyone who was at Liberty con can attest. :)
I have another couple of books to clear off the slate — to wit, the fifth of Musketeers series — but I SHOULD — emphasis on should, meaning there’s a month wiggle room each way — have it in my publisher’s lovely hands come December. Or at least out to my betas. Do I hear a volunteering?
Now — the letter. I have NO intention of sending it out. Frankly the lady either is not too smart, or the habit of not thinking has become so ingrained that nothing can change it at this point. She WOULD retaliate against Robert. As is, she seems to have something to prove re: his writing. I suspect she’s aware he writes better than she does — there are those moments of cold sweats when I think he writes better than I do. At sixteen, yet. I frankly think he should tell her about his two pro short stories, perhaps take book in to show. I think it might spike her guns re: retaliation. She SHOULD have enough brain to know if she gives him a C or worse, she WILL be looking like a fool when his college application lists his membership in a professional writers’ organization. Then again, who knows? He might be right and knowing he’s more published than she is might just induce her to try harder. Not in a good way.
Then again, this is the woman who announced first week of school that she is not unbiased because, since girls have to try so hard in the rest of the world, she gives them a leg up in her class. One doesn’t know whether to admire the frankness. She’s very lucky I’m mother of a boy in her class. If I had a girl in her class, I’d have visited with a clue stick already. “I.don’t.care.how.difficult.you.think.the.world.is.for.girls. You’re doing them no favors by making them believe themselves entitled to a leg up for nothing.”
Two years ago Robert’s history teacher was a holocaust denier. Don’t get me started, please. HE curtailed his rants after a while. Possibly someone better placed than I put pressure. He had the nerve to send this very odd email to Robert, though, advising him to take “things” easier and explaining that Robert needed to “be more like the other kids.” Or something to that effect. GRRR.
For ten cents I’d bring the boy home and teach him with the assist of distance learning for gifted kids, just as I’m doing with #2 Pain. It’s more expensive, and it plays bugg*rall with my writing, but it saves my blog readers from these rants. And Eric is 100% improved and has found something he’s passionate about — to wit, c programming. Oh, and cartooning (one of his external, gets to see real people classes) He’s also reading a lot more, now that his books are not about victimhood (ALL of Robert’s reading list this year seems to center on pedophilia. One wonders, REALLY) and he’s realized he can just walk up to the bookcases and PICK. (Of course, he’s also, unfortunately, writing HP fanfic. gah.)
BUT Robert has ivy league ambitions, and we only have writer-and-mathematician money, and being in internationally recognized gifted program is probably better for scholarships than being taught at home. At least, after research, we think so.
So — not sending the letter. But reserving the right to rant. (Oh, look. Where did all this foam come from, and why is it on my lips?)
Sarah
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Bad assignments
It’s too early in the school year for assignments this badly thought out. Keep your eyes on this teacher, before she sours your son on both writing and his heritage. Looks like you don’t have time for it really, but do what you can. Good luck on it.
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You go!
I’ve encountered the same thing in schools and pushed back as well (well, perhaps not as well/effectively).
My daughter’s culture is AMERICAN. Her genes came to America by way of Germany, Poland, Czechloslovakia, Ireland, and England — countries to which she has never traveled. Her favorite foods are sushi and Chinese and tacos. She wears her trucker cap to the side like a gangsta, and can do that attitude-head thing like a Sista. She’s a cheerleader (Go! Shooting Stars!) and wants to be a lawyer when she grows up.
In short, she’s an American.
What I’d like to see in schools — challenge the kids to think how two or more cultures melded here in America to produce something unique. I see such things all the time — and, as an American, I find the things wonderous. Something as stupid and simple as Mrs. T’s pierogies (a Polish ravioli) made with cheddar and jalapenos makes me proud of what all our ancestors have accomplished here — and makes me look forward to what our nation will become as we continue to melt together.
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*chuckles* Well said, Sarah!
That reminded me of letters my mother would compose to the school district. That is when she wasn’t busy editing/correcting their letters to her with a red pen and sending it back to them!
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(Linked here via , and cheering.)
I have this strong urge, should “talk about your ancestors” day come around, to have the kid look up stuff back in Tennessee, when the Rayes married the Pratts, and the Pratts married the Rayes, and it turned into a tangle of inbreeding such that the families got called the Raye-Pratts…
Yeah, my grandmother traced that bundle of tangled genetic yarn out the other end and to some wrong-side-of-blankets British nobility, but c’mon. There’s loads of people who go back that far. Me, I’m gonna advocate stopping in Tennessee. (The kid’s teacher already knows we’re difficult.)
Much sympathies to you. Perhaps you can save the rants up and send them (to the principal?) after your kid has escaped that school?
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And THAT’s only ONE side of the picture for my granddaughter – on the other, a link with an Irish horse thief exists, all the way back to Kenedy, King of Munster and All Ireland in the 900’s. And if you don’t think THAT is a tangled skein of DNA on the way here – well, I can elaborate.
I’m with the idea of waiting till he escapes from that teacher, and THEN sending the letter.
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Your kids sound awesome. Just for what it is worth. Pity I am unlikely to meet them in the near future, being in South Africa and all.
My take on the whole culture thing? You can keep it. My ancestry is Mongolian, Russian, German and English. It means sod all. We do have some German traditions (like at Christmas time and for starting school years and such), and my mom can cook some of the food, but beyond that? I can speak the language, but that means little, I can speak Afrikaans but as far as I know there is no Afrikaans ancestry. I have been to Germany once (aged about 10). I am not German. I am South African, with, if you really want to be pedantic, (mostly) German descent. Which leads into the idiocy of all those people who think I am not African, simply because most of my history is Caucasian. Or who are surprised that I, in Africa, having been born here, am white. (very, because I do not get out enough) Gah.
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
I would just like to say that “Ms. once-published poet” is an INCREDIBLE English teacher and you shouldn’t judge someone before you meet them. Also, the project was called a Cultural Heritage project. A little different than you described. Having researched my family intensely, I feel closer to them and learned about a different culture at the same time. I gained a lot from this project and saw it as an opportunity to do something to further my search for my true self, something different from the everyday essay. Really, if you would like to criticize one of the most adored, knowledgeable, and genuinely caring teachers at Palmer, think twice and maybe meet them before you judge.
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Re: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
No, in fact I am NOT kidding you. I’m glad you learned a lot — that is supposing you’re not the teacher in question. I’m glad you were so culturally unaware that this helped you. An encyclopedia and a map of the world would probably constitute a mind-blowing enlightment to you, if that project helped. You might want to read my very latest post on what’s wrong with this assignment. (You might also wish to stop harrassing me.)
For the record, I’m saying this on my own and without consulting with my son — I’ve seen the papers Ms. incredible teacher graded. A knowlege of grammar, punctuation and an acquaintance with a manual of style would be truly useful to her. As would a depth of thought of more than two inches. And reading something that wasn’t assigned to her in school at some point. AND experience of other cultures.
My credentials are as follows — not only have I SOLD seventeen novels to various professional publishing houses; I was raised in a foreign country and lived on three continents before ever getting married; I have friends and relatives everywhere in the world; and, oh, yeah, I TAUGHT for five years.
The best thing to say for Ms. “incredible teacher” is that she’s well-intentioned. The worst could be… much worse.
And the best thing to say for her admirers — always assuming this is NOT the lady herself — is that they are naive and lack a universe for comparison.
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Re: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
Oh, I forgot to mention — I have an MA in Modern Languages and Literatures, with a major in English. I know something of how literary analysis is performed. I have yet to see any vague awareness the topic even EXISTS in this lady’s test questions. Her questions are more the sort you ask much younger students to verify they read the book. I won’t go into the choice of books because that frankly is probably not her fault.
Again, my son has no idea I’m posting this. Again, I’m very glad you’re happy with your learning experience. Yes, there are wonderful teachers at Palmer. I’ve met them. And then there are the ones who … are well intentioned. And some students could learn from just about anyone.
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Re: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
Right. Having seen some of the comments “Ms. once-published poet” has made I would agree with you that she most certainly is an incredible English teacher, in that her commentary is indeed beyond credulity. The notion that a person capable of making such comments is a competent English teacher doesn’t so much strain my credulity to the breaking point as shatter it completely AND send my bullshitometer into overdrive.
It doesn’t matter what the project was called, by the way. You can call a steaming pile of dogshit anything you please, and it won’t smell any better. It’s the criteria used for grading that matter, right along with how competently and fairly those criteria are applied by the teacher. What I’ve seen suggests a pretty solid fail from her on both counts.
It may be laudable to research your family intensely. I have to commend you if you did in fact do this, given that geometric progression would put your ancestors as recently as 200 years ago in the hundreds. Or did you only look at the branch that seemed most interesting and do a bit of cultural tourism there? Yes, I do know about this, having done a bit of ancestry research myself. No, I don’t consider it relevant. It’s interesting, sometimes bizarre, but the only thing it’s given me is pale skin and enough auto-immune issues to sink a rowboat.
As for your search for your true self, I recommend a mirror and an inquiring mind. Oh, yes. A little honesty with yourself works wonders, too.
And yes, I’ve been there and have the scars to prove it.
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Re: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
Oh, I didn’t notice that you mentioned this project helped you find your “true” self. THIS WAS THE POINT OF MY POST, not incidental criticism of a less than stellar teacher. (I and the kids have endured FAR worse.)
YOUR SELF IS NOT YOUR ANCESTORS. CULTURE IS NOT GENETIC. YOU ARE YOUR OWN PERSON. GENETICS GIVES YOU NEITHER GUILT NOR VIRTUE.
Please read my post of today on this very journal. The all-precious incredible teacher is not mentioned but the thing that got me steamed about this assignment is expounded at length.
If you believe that your ancestors in some way determine who you are beyond things like your eye and hair color, your mental quickness, your reflexes and such physical things, then you would agree with many statements by Adolph Hitler and the “thinkers” that inspired him.
I assign you to research the phrase “Never Again.” May it enlighten you. THIS is what comes from believing genetics determine culture and that culture is genetic. (There are other things like believing one culture is uniquely bad. Go THINK on it for the love of Heaven.)
PS – My answer to that epic sixties Grail Quest of “finding one’s true self” is usually that the searcher should look behind the sofa cushions. That’s where such things normally fall unnoticed. And, at any rate, once you’re done cleaning, you’ll have had some time to think for yourself and question the pap you’re being fed. You know that “Question authority” bumpersticker? Try it. Try it on the people who have the bumpersticker. It can do wonders for your horizons.
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What was the question?
Just a quick comment – there tend to be three sources of authority that we use to support our right to give directions. One is simple position – I’m a teacher, I’ve been put into this spot, so you will listen to me. Another is some kind of proof of background – claims of prior publication, etc. And the third is showing expertise, actually sitting down and doing something that demonstrates our knowledge and abilities in the topic at hand.
Now, without quibbling about whether a single publication or multiple publications are better background for teaching English, and without descending into the morass of personality and relationships, and staying far from the question of position, it sounds as if you found the Cultural Heritage project as you interpreted the assignment to be useful and helpful. I’m a bit concerned about the evident confusion of your family with a culture, and suggest that checking the sociologist and cultural anthropologist definitions of the concept of culture might be useful, but . . . you had a good experience. That’s great.
As a learning experience, I might ask some questions about the intent of the intent of the assignment, and I’d be interested in the expected method of commenting or critiquing. In other words, what where you supposed to learn from this, and how will people be helped towards achieving that? But we’ll pass on the pedagogical issues for now.
You may want to consider how other students understood and interpret that assignment. Just for an example, consider a student who grew up without a family background, a homeless orphan. Or consider a student whose parents have worked hard to become Americans – and now the school system is telling him or her that all that hard work means nothing, because this year we aren’t doing melting pot, we’re doing cultural inheritance whether you want it or not?
Or what about my family, with the Ayrab as a relatively close link? All that is known for certain is that he came to work on a farm, and within a short time, the farmer accidentally died. And the Ayrab married the farmer’s wife and raised some new ones. As to where the Ayrab came from – rumors range from an escaped slave through Middle Eastern to just plain runaway convict from somewhere. Should I ignore him and insist it didn’t happen, as one aunt does, or accept that this was a part of my family – and shows some of the problems of that era and place, even though it doesn’t exactly give me a cultural heritage?
If I were giving such an assignment, I think I would start with the concept that we are all connected to different cultures, through our families, friends, work, etc. And what I would like you, the students, to do is to look at those cultural links and the breakages, then try stepping across some of the boundaries that we often use, and take a look back at yourself from that other point of view. What would your grandparent from Europe who came to America to build a new life without religious bigotry think of the modern persecution of Moslems in America? Suppose you work for a company that sends you to the Middle East, or China, or Japan – how would your life be different when you live there?
Perhaps the best way to make such an assignment is to ask the questions:
1. We are all influenced by a wide range of cultural factors and contexts. What are some of the main ones in your life?
2. How do you react to such influences in your life?
3. How do you identify and react to such influences in other people? How does your life express such influences?
4. How would you like to deal with culture – your’s and other people’s – in the future?
5. How would you like other people to deal with your culture and you?
Sorry, I promised a quick comment, but got interested. Fun topic!
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Re: What was the question?
I should mention in the matter of “respect” that students should SHOW respect to teachers in classrooms. There the teacher is paramount and the position is all.
SECOND — this “respect” doesn’t extend to parents who are adults or taxpayers.
I’d also like to mention I never gave the teacher’s name or even the school. I wouldn’t. Because that falls a) under deliberately antagonizing. b) It’s needless. Most of my quibble was, as you pointed out, with confusing “culture” with “family”. I.e., GENETICS. That’s what drives me nuts. (If you enjoy the topic, see today’s post.)
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Re: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
Let’s see….do we have a troll? Looks like it to me. Sarah never mentioned what school or what teacher was involved. You are the one pointing fingers in a particular direction.
Now, I have a couple of questions for you and please feel free to respond to me, but only if you have the guts and the maturity to do so by stepping out from behind the oh-so-convenient cloak of anonymity.
Why wait so long to respond to this post? Are you trying to stir up trouble and, if you are, why? Unless you are the teacher involved, or one of the school administrators, how do you know Sarah hasn’t met the teacher and discussed the situation with her in the time since the post was first uploaded? I just have a hard time taking anyone too seriously who can’t come out and say who they are and be upfront about what their own agenda is in making an attack.
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Re: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
Never replied to a live journal before, I don’t like being anonymous so for the Record my name is Robin, I am a mother of 2 very bright children.
Teachers are there to teacher, teachers are not Gods, and a teacher that once published a piece of poetry is a dime a dozen, for that matter shall we discuss the thousands of individuals that have published poerty. Having poetry published doesn’t make them an expert in writing. Nevertheless a teacher’s job is difficult and I commend them for that.
A parent’s job is even more difficult and part of a parent’s job is to keep teachers in line. Teachers work for the tax payers, which includes the parents. Thus the parents have every right to call a teacher out. The fact that Mrs Hoyt makes money writing makes her an expert in the field of writing.
Oh and just because students like a teacher doesn’t mean the teacher is any good. A good teacher treats all students the same, with respect while enforcing the rules. They are open minded and allow creativity. They at no time encourage individuals to hurt other people. They work with parents and will take the time to call a parent and work out the differences with them. They act as aduls and set a good example for all their students.
A bad teacher has an agenda, encourages children to go against their parents or beliefs. They allow children to only think the way they want them to think, and discourage children for going for their dreams because they think the dream is wrong or dum.
Now to the aspect of culture. Did you teacher have anyone do a project on the “American culture” or did she like so many think America doesn’t have a culture. It does, a great culture that has to do with real respect of other cultures, more so than any other county I have visited because it allows those who have a culture I don’t like to live their lives the way the wish. The number of cultures in America is amazing, from various states to various communities. There are traditions and beliefs that are uniquely American. (I have traveled to many countries in this world and they do recognize that America does have their own unique culture. To bad that the schools today don’t teach that. They did when I went to school and actually had students do reports on their families, their traditions, their culture. Then the teacher engaged the kids and discussed how some of these cultures developed from various practices in various parts of the world. That is learning about your community and results in a greater degree of respect for those with different beliefs.
It would be interesting to find out how many different American cultures there are in the area you live in. Things that we consider Italian, Japanese, Australian, African, Hispanic, that people from those countries wouldn’t recognize and would say are not part of that culture. Of course I have taken the time to get involved in the countries I lived in and learned this myself.
Another thing you might want to look up that almost every culture has in it, is a respect for those older than you.
Additionaly, if you believe enough in something you should be willing to put your name to it. Your unwillingness to give your name tells me a lot about you if you keep on the path you are on right now you will have a long and difficult life and will always be working for someone else because you lack the courage to stand for what you believe.
Robin Brooks
PS. A good parent watches out for their children, they will defend them, help them, encourage them, and hold them accountable for their actions. Mrs. Hoyt does all those things.
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Afterthoughts
You are quite correct: the cultural heritage project was a stressful waste of time. I am also glad you did not send this letter along to this English teacher. While you are certainly entitled to rant, ranting online where anyone can view your blog is just as bad as sending the teacher the letter; it is in fact worst. You appear to be an intelligent woman yet I wonder that it did not occur to you that your blog would reach the ears of this English teacher. After all, she teaches IB students who are more than capable of finding your blog and bringing it to the teacher’s attention. It would have been far better to approach her directly than allow the teacher to learn of this letter through her students. Although I respect you as a gifted author, I am shocked that any parent would blog such disparaging remarks about a teacher.
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Re: Afterthoughts
Of course it occurred to me. It has also occurred to me that she would ask her students to post. This is, by the way, an extremely unfortunate idea. First — I did not name the school or the teacher. In case this is not obvious, being a public figure, I normally don’t give out my place of residence except for state. Second if it continues, I CAN bring legal action. She can’t. She is working for a public, tax supported institution. As a tax payer I’m allowed to blog about her actions. THIS has been tried in courts of law.
To hone in on a remark posted… How many months ago? For the purpose of harrassing me borders on insanity. In case this is not CLEAR and obvious the whole point of this post was NOT the teacher. She was incidental and annoying, but her kind are legion.
As for my lack of respect for teachers — WHERE is it written teachers must be respected by virtue of their profession? They are not pastors, priests, rabbis, who can claim moral authority. They are not even doctors or engineers whose grueling preparation entitles them to some deference. They are public employees, paid for by MY taxes. Furthermore, they are heavily unionized public employees — and while unions are sometimes justifiable, the NEA ISN’T — whose agenda prevents an effective reform of a sclerotic education system in this country.
And, oh, incidentally, if you think this is disrespectful don’t — PLEASE — listen to adults when they gather to discuss what their kids are going through at school.
There are teachers I respect. There are teachers who are worth their weight in gold. There is a teacher who wakened me to my son’s potential. People who are gifted and GOOD at what they do get my respect, whatever their field. I prize my plumber and have known two or three handymen worthy of admiration.
HOWEVER I fail to see why I should respect someone because they went through education school. Have you looked at the books people read in “education” classes? I have. Pap — and ideologically slanted pap divorced of the real world and its consequences — is not the beginning of it.
I do not now nor will I EVER respect incompetence.
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Re: Afterthoughts
Gosh. You’re shocked that a parent would blog disparaging remarks about a teacher? You must not get out much. Did you read through all the other comments – disparaging many, many other teachers?
A few suggestions for you.
First, don’t assume that your hostess on this blog is stupid, and don’t insinuate it with snide remarks.
Second, don’t assume that the letter went unsent for some petty reason. I guarantee you, it went unsent for very good reasons. Of course, you’re probably also shocked at the idea that a teacher might penalize a student because his parents disagree with her.
Third, there are no free passes. Madame IB English Teacher is, like it or not, a moderately public figure. As such, she will attract attention. It will not all be flattering. Some of it will even be open, honest, and – shockingly! – disparaging. No-one, no matter what position they hold, deserves servile agreement. Expecting it is a sign of immaturity and an ego that’s insecure enough to want cuddles and possibly a blankie.
Fourth, yes, I am being sarcastic. You, oh anonymous one, are being snide and backhanded. You’re also not doing it very well.
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Re: Afterthoughts
Eep? Please check your postings before sending.
Two problems. First, you assert equivalence (just as bad) but then say one is worse. (Worse, not worst – comparitive, not end of the scale). Second, there is no fact involved. This would be a better version:
While you are certainly entitled to rant, an online rant on your blog that can be viewed by anyone is not just as bad as sending a letter to the teacher, an online rant is worse.
A blog, written material, is unlikely to reach anyone’s ears. Not so incidentally, the attempted putdown of “You appear to be an intelligent woman” involves both the pat-on-the-head sexism of a good little woman and the “You look smart” attack. Try this version:
I am sure that you realized that your blog might be read by this English teacher.
I’m a bit confused. You start out by agreeing that the project was a waste, then start attacking Sarah for daring to complain in public? Considering that it has taken several months for you to comment, why was her use of her blog shocking? Indeed, I know school teachers who have set up blogs and communities specifically to get such comments from parents, and who regularly get much more shocking responses and are thrilled to have such involvement, but I suspect that isn’t what you meant, is it?
If parents don’t complain about teachers, who will?
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Re: Afterthoughts
I’ll start with your first sentence. Obviously you are more than familiar with the assignment Sarah blogged about. That tells me you are either the teacher in question, someone who is close to said teacher or a student or parent. So, why don’t you take a page out of your own book? Instead of blogging about how bad it was for Sarah to post the letter that wasn’t sent, why not try to talk to her about it? You are attempting to act as the “voice of reason” here and yet aren’t following your own advice.
This whole thing is just so bloody ridiculous. Why in hell is this suddenly an issue? This post is months old. If there is anyone being victimized here, it is Sarah and her family.
Now, I might give you a bit more respect if you weren’t hiding behind an anonymous post. It is just so easy to pick at someone when they don’t know who you are. So, I’ll say this….if you don’t like what I say, email me. The link is active. Or come over to my LJ and post.
Somehow, I don’t think you’ll take me up on it because that would mean you’d have to come out from behind your veil of anonymity.
Amanda
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Re: Afterthoughts
I’m a parent, and I’ve also been a teacher. I’ve helped write textbooks. Some teachers have a great deal of leeway in their classrooms – others have very little leeway and must teach from a given text, with certain mandatory assignments, and tests that are used in a very wide area. The teachers can personalize the lectures and the grading comments and work in some small assignments, but are chained to the system created by those higher up in the system. (No way to run a railroad, but that’s a post for a different day.)
Honest to Pete, I’d be _thrilled_ to have a parental resource such as Ms. Hoyt. I don’t live in Colorado, though, so I’ve made do with the parental resources I’ve had.
All of these blog posts make the assumption that the assignment is fully and wholly at the teacher’s discretion. Except for Ms. Hoyt’s. If one examines the assumptions in Ms. Hoyt’s post, she was not ranting about the assignment per se. She was ranting about the thought behind the assignment.
The assignment may have come down either as a Colorado state standard, or as an IB standard. “The student shall research their heritage, and shall present information about their culture to the class. The students will then compare and contrast their cultures.” If that’s a standard, the teacher may have had to teach per contract.
Sarah, however, caught the unspoken assumption in the standard. The unspoken assumption? Genetic heritage equals culture. Culture is an artifact of genetic heritage, and is heritable.
This is an easy and pernicious assumption to let slide. I’ve been to many family reunions where people laud their own ancestors for their staunch….culture. It’s easy, because it makes the assumption that the culture of one’s ancestors is one’s culture.
There are two fallacies here. The first fallacy is that everyone has heaps and gobs of ancestors. They can’t all have the same identical culture. The other is that it assumes that culture is heritable. Culture is transmissable, but it is not heritable. Ask any adopted child what their culture is, and you scratch a terrible question.
The reason these fallacies are pernicious is that they are the seeds of racism, classism, and several other “isms.” In the United States, we don’t assume that someone whose parents are uneducated is incapable of getting a doctoral degree. We don’t assume that people should only eat the foods and play the instruments that their ancestors ate and played. We certainly don’t assume that we should worship exactly as our ancestors worshipped. (A good thing, too. Chances are that some of my ancestors were part of the Mounds Culture. I’m really not into blood sacrifice.) And we don’t assume that we should speak as our ancestors spoke, work as our ancestors worked, and travel as our ancestors travelled. All of those items (work, food, play, worship, clothing, housing, mobility, war,) are part and parcel of culture.
What’s more, culture is mutable. It’s hard to change, but it’s mutable. If it’s not, the civil rights battle was for nothing. I don’t know about you, but my mother had tears in her eyes when she was able to watch my son’s math team. And choir. And band. All with kids from nearly every imaginable genetic heritage coming together as part of the American culture.
Sarah wasn’t railing so much against the teacher. Those were introductory tropes. She was railing against the pernicious idea that our ancestors choose our culture. I surely hope that you feel as free to change and shape your culture as my children do. That is the worthy work of a lifetime. How much better do you want to leave this culture than you found it?
Laura
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The above is Laura’s comments all youngsters SHOULD read
Before they bother me.
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Re: The above is Laura’s comments all youngsters SHOULD read
I’d recommend it for the old fogies, too.
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Re: Afterthoughts
You don’t do you? Teachers are not all knowing and all wise they basically humans, with all the foibles and follies of any normal human. It both a parents right and privilege to comment on assignments given by a teacher. In this case the assignment was used to showcase a particularly bad trend in modern education. That the teacher happens to be caught up in the fad and embracing it is sad but not the core issue of Sarah’s post.
As for not commenting in a public place because the unnamed teacher at the unnamed school might be identified by her students that is not relevant. At worst it will show that not everyone embraces the fad the teacher has embraced and will show that adults can have a difference of opinion about things.
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Re: Afterthoughts
Why shouldn’t she be willing to post this where it can be read. I am also a mother and have had no problem putting things in writing to be read by all. At least Mrs. Hoyt is willing to put her name to what she has written. If more people were willing to stand up and be counted we would have less problems in this world.
I hope the teacher finds this, I also hope the parents find this, we need more parents willing to stand up to the teachers and remind them they work for us, not us for them.
It is a parents job to ensure their child is getting a good education and that it is in a safe environment. Parents sometimes have to put the information out for other parents to find so they can group together and make a difference. This is the same thing that goes on with unions, employees join together to become a stronger force to fight against their employer, it can be a good thing.
If more parents and individuals would be willing to stand up and be counted, like our founding fathers were, the world would be a better place.
Robin Brooks
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I think you’re just a bitch. Ok your son had a fucking assignment that he was supposed to do. Everyone has to do shit they don’t want to do in life. It’s school. Your son needs to get the fuck over it. He could have taken the assignment and done it on what he thought his culture was. I’m sure his teacher would’ve listened to his explanation for why he did his project the way he did and wouldn’t have mark him down. The whole pronouns thing, that’s just how his teacher might be. Every teacher likes and dislikes various things in writing , you just have to accept that and give the teacher what they want. It has always been like that in school and it will always be like that. Get the fuck over yourself. Why don’t you just grow some balls and talk to the teacher. That’s what teachers want: for parents and students to talk to them about what they could do better and what they are doing right.
I know I can say all this and can say I’m right because I have the same English teacher your son has. I know you’ll sit here and read this and think “oh this is just some seventeen year old student who knows nothing about what they’re saying”. You and your son seem to think that since one hasn’t published a book then they’re inferior to you. You know what I have to say to both of you FUCK YOU. You’re not better than anyone, especially if you have to go write a goddamn blog bitching about something as stupid as a damn assignment that your son didn’t want to do. If you were better than everyone else then you would have done the adult thing and instead of bitching in a blog you would have talked to the teacher in person. Your son’s English teacher, MY English teacher is a great person and wants nothing but the best for her students. You don’t know her so you can’t say anything about her or her teaching. You don’t see her almost everyday. She is always supportive of every student she has. She is one of the BEST teachers and people I have ever met. I can honestly say that I LOVE my English teacher for what she has taught me and what she has done for me. She has been like a friend to me. Someone I know I can talk to about anything if I ever need to. Along with being a friend she has been an amazing teacher. If your son is so damn amazing, and so much better than everyone, and if you’re better than MY English teacher then teacher your son yourself.
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Impressed with logic and reasoning
Evident insecurity AND inferiority complex. MUST answer by point, after which I will stop doing this and go WORK. Because I’m an adult.
Warning — language, most of it from poster —
“I think you’re just a bitch.”
Oh, you are so right! I’m a bitch, baby. To sort of quote P.J. O’Rourke — I’m the meanest bitch who ever jogged in Reebocks. This proves WHAT exactly? Since when is name calling a logical refutation? Are these the reasoning skills you’re being taught, my child? No wonder you’re angry.
“Ok your son had a fucking assignment that he was supposed to do. Everyone has to do shit they don’t want to do in life.”
Yes. Yes, they do. But not EVERYONE has to be indocrinated. I grew up under a socialist regime. I know indocrination when I smell it. And I loathe it. I object to my taxes going to pay for attempts to mind-wash my child.
“Your son needs to get the fuck over it. He could have taken the assignment and done it on what he thought his culture was. I’m sure his teacher would’ve listened to his explanation for why he did his project the way he did and wouldn’t have mark him down.”
MY SON is not the point here. My son DID exactly that. Our ancestry is varied enough that he found a few interesting points. BUT that was never my point. MY point is that the assignment is not only stupid, it is a form of indocrination and mind twisting. (continued in next comment.)
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Re: Impressed with logic and reasoning
“The whole pronouns thing, that’s just how his teacher might be. Every teacher likes and dislikes various things in writing , you just have to accept that and give the teacher what they want.”
Have you ever heard the saying “Everyone is entitled to his opinion. NO ONE is entitled to his own facts”? Well, it’s sort of like that. Your teacher is entitled to her own likes and dislikes. She’s NOT entitled to making the English language over at will. What she’s doing is destroying the students’ style and expression. THAT is not a wonderful teacher.
“It has always been like that in school and it will always be like that. ”
How sage — from the height of your… sixteen — or is it twenty few — years? It brought a tear to my eye. I could swear I was reading Eclesiastes.
“Get the fuck over yourself.”
This post was never about me. This post was only marginally about the teacher. Only a malignant egomaniac could see it otherwise.
” Why don’t you just grow some balls and talk to the teacher. That’s what teachers want: for parents and students to talk to them about what they could do better and what they are doing right.”
REALLY? I thought teachers went to school to find out what they’re doing right — not that my opinion of teaching college is high…
If indeed the teacher needs my and my kids’ advice I’ll be happy to give it. Will we be paid for this?
SERIOUSLY do you think I lack the ‘balls’ to talk to the teacher? First of all,is the teacher particularly interested in testicles? I confess I lack them. I have one of the v-word thingies instead. Perhaps you’ve heard of them?
What I lack is the time and patience to argue a point that clearly the teacher or her surrogates aren’t willing to understand. Would “CULTURE IS NOT GENETICS” be more effective if I hung a banner in her classroom?
And do you think the “teacher in question” would NOT penalize my child for my words? And, btw, I WILL be watching VERY closely for the rest of the year. JUST FYI. There are independent reviews. Just… so you know. Not meaning anything by it. Forfend the thought. We’re all adults here. Some of us more so than others.
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Re: Impressed with logic and reasoning
“I know I can say all this and can say I’m right because I have the same English teacher your son has. I know you’ll sit here and read this and think “oh this is just some seventeen year old student who knows nothing about what they’re saying”. ”
No. I think you’re rude, egotistical and — if this comment is proof, incapable of carrying a rational thought in a bucket. I am not judging you by your age, though. I’ve met twelve year olds who are mature adults. And fifty year olds who are children. Besides, on the net, you can be whatever age you display.
“You and your son seem to think that since one hasn’t published a book then they’re inferior to you.”
I would very much like to know why you think this. The only reason I mention my publication credits is that I need to bolster a claim to knowing English. Also because the teacher uses HER publication credits to bolster her claim to knowing how to teach English.
I’m not even going to defend myself on this one. I have mentored more unpublished writers than you can shake a stick at. And most of my friends aren’t even writing.
Have you heard the expression “your Freudian slip is showing”? You might want to tuck it in.
“You know what I have to say to both of you FUCK YOU. ”
Again, I bow before the force of your logical argument which so perfectly addresses all my questions about culture, ethnicity and interplay thereof. I go in awe of the logic. Hint — for most of us over thirty, swearwords have lost the shock value. I just hear “rude and ran out of logic.”
(continued)
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Re: Impressed with logic and reasoning
“You’re not better than anyone, especially if you have to go write a goddamn blog bitching about something as stupid as a damn assignment that your son didn’t want to do.”
IF that’s what you think the blogpost was about I am — demonstrably – better than you, at least at reasoning and reading comprehension. But don’t despair. I’m sure you have many other, wonderful qualities. Um… not politeness… Not persuasive argument… Perhaps you should research your ancestors again and find your true qualities.
“If you were better than everyone else then you would have done the adult thing and instead of bitching in a blog you would have talked to the teacher in person.”
WHY? Because it’s all about the teacher? WHAT’s with YOU? Do you see your G-d every morning in front of the mirror when you comb? This is NOT about you/your teacher or your belly button. The teacher’s lack of competence with the English language annoys me, but that’s a passing annoyance. I’m sure colleges will really care about this, when they see Robert’s English scores in standard tests. He might have to explain “the teacher and I had personality differences” but that’s about it.
WHAT annoyed me about the assignment was… the assignment and the confusion of culture with genetics. (You know, I’m getting hoarse repeating this.)
“Your son’s English teacher, MY English teacher is a great person and wants nothing but the best for her students.”
I am happy for her. How do you know this? Mind reading much? I mean, HOW do you know her intentions? Perhaps she just likes impressing imature minds. She’s SURELY not teaching them logic.
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Re: Impressed with logic and reasoning
“You don’t know her so you can’t say anything about her or her teaching”
REALLY? TRULY? As you said above ARE YOU SERIOUS? ARE YOU FOR REAL? I have to know her to know her greatness? Reading her semi-literate scrawl on my son’s papers isn’t enough? TRULY? Yeah, I see this. I have to personally know the president too, before I criticize his performance. And every one of our generals in battle. And the CEOs of the companies I invest in. Much as I hate to bring up yet another saying “By their deeds, you shall know them.”
” You don’t see her almost everyday. She is always supportive of every student she has. She is one of the BEST teachers and people I have ever met. I can honestly say that I LOVE my English teacher for what she has taught me and what she has done for me”
I was about to say “All of which are on display in this comment” but perhaps I’m unkind. Perhaps you were MORE incoherent before. I’m glad you LOVE her. It’s disturbing, but I’m glad. We all need to love someone. Or something like that. For the record the goal of a teacher should not be to be loved, BUT to teach. Just like your parent is supposed to be your parent, not your best buddy. If they’re also your best buddy, good for you — but shouldn’t you get out more? And if you LOVE your teacher, do you also love your pen case, your desk at school, your favorite candy? I mean, on a scale of one to ten how much do you LOVE each of these?
I’ve had teachers I admired, teachers who made a profound difference in my life. I’ve had teachers whose CLASSES I LOVED. I can’t honestly say I ever “loved” a teacher him/herself. Not after fourth grade. Adults don’t form that kind of personal relationship in a professional setting. And before you scream, since your mind likes the F word, I’m not implying anything dirty. Just that this sort of “adoration” doesn’t normally flourish in a properly functioning professional setting. It’s the thing of cult of personality, not good teaching.
“Someone I know I can talk to about anything if I ever need to.”
I’m sorry. You’re an orphan and lack friends your own age. No wonder you get so emotional!
“Along with being a friend she has been an amazing teacher.”
I’d put in the process for sainthood now. After all, these things take time, and we should not lose our opportunity at a living saint in our midst.
Are you aware you sound either unhinged or so immature I have trouble believing you’re out of grade school. Forgive me the ad-hominem attack, but I’m speechless at your encomium for your teacher. There are authors I LOVE, near whom I become speechless, and I wouldn’t write this about them in a public blog. Not even those who are my friends and whom I personally know. I DON’T know what is in other people’s minds and hearts. I can’t tel you if someone is an amazing person or not. I can tell you if they treat me well or not, is about it. As for love, I love, in different ways, my husband, my parents, my children, my close friends and my cats. You throw this word around as if you “love” the whole world. Makes me think that word doesn’t mean what you think it means. I also think the word “friend” doesn’t mean what you think it means.
“If your son is so damn amazing, and so much better than everyone, and if you’re better than MY English teacher then teacher your son yourself. ”
Where have I said my son is so much better than everyone? I ASSUME his classmates are at his level. That’s the whole point of his being in IB. Am I better than your English teacher? This begs the question… Better at what? Am I better at the English language? G-d, I hope so. I am better at reading comprehension, that’s for sure. And being almost twice her age, I hope I have more life experience. When I taught I never felt a need to make my students worship me and cater to my ego, but different times, different mores.
(continued)
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Re: Impressed with logic and reasoning
I probably could “teacher” (sic) Robert better, but SO WHAT? THIS WAS NOT THE POINT OF THIS POST. IF it had been, I’d have named your teacher, and the school. BTW, it might be smart of you to remove the name of the school above. I can’t edit your comment.
And besides, in case this is not PATENTLY obvious, I already have a job. I pay taxes so my child can be educated (not brain washed, indocrinated or molded into something or other.) This is the equivalent of saying “if you don’t like the road in front of your house, fix it yourself.” I have one answer: “No. I PAY taxes for this.”
Also, the child PREFERS to stay in IB. I have offered him homeschooling or distance education. He prefers IB for his own reasons, and your sainted teacher isn’t the worst I’ve encountered. Not even close. However, I’m starting to think she’s the most universally adored woman in the world.
Perhaps she should try for American Idol.
Did I mention I am done with this? I am DONE with this. THE POINT OF THIS POST WAS NEVER THE TEACHER. I think she’s incompetent, but not notably so. It’s the level of incompetence at which most people manage to rub through life okay. And the damage she’s inflicting on her students’ written expression will pass. At least, if said students expect to ever have ANY paying job that involves writing a report, it better pass.
The point of my comment is that CULTURE IS NOT GENETICS. You can’t find yourself by studying your ancestors — any more than you can find yourself by studying total strangers. (Your relationship, genetically speaking, to your great-great-great grandparents is so small that in a society where people lived long enough you could probably marry one of them.) And yet, clearly, from your previous comment, you came away from the assigment believing you could derive self knowledge from it.
I am willing to concede your teacher is the next mother Theresa if you stop obsessing on her and start THINKING about the world around you. Our time is not easy or safe. No time ever is. This is not a good time to go around flinging swearwords and substituting emotion for logic.
Until I see some proof of thought — you MUST have a brain SOMEWHERE. You’re in IB! — I will not respond to your posts any longer. In fact, I shall report them as spam. Believe that you have defeated me with your superior logic, if you wish. After all… how can I refute repeated four letter words?
Goodbye and goodnight.
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ROFL!
Oh, sanctimonious and self-righteous vanity thy name is anonymous posting filled with pre-adolescent swearing. Cowards are so much fun to nettle.
Don’t block them, Sarah! Hand ’em a shovel. By the time the harassment suit is over, you’ll own the teacher, the pinhead(s) she coerced into posting, AND the school system. Anonymous only works until the subpeona hits LJ for the posting addresses.
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Ooh, such a brave nony mouse it is, precious, defending its beloved from behind the sofa where it can’t be seen.
Seriously, did you actually read what you wrote before you posted it? I assure you, the foul mouth doesn’t impress me. All it does is tell me this is a person who can’t handle the least bit of criticism without reaching for the verbal mace. Gee. If that’s what our English teacher is teaching her IB students, I shudder to think what the poor non-gifted kids are suffering through.
Now, let’s take a little look at what you’ve said. First sentence, accuse hostess of being a bitch. Last time I looked, Sarah’s species was homo sapiens, not canis anything, so you’re biologically inaccurate as well as rude. I’ll be generous. Maybe you don’t study biology.
Second sentence. I suspect if the assignment was in fucking he’d probably have enjoyed it more, but that’s biology, which we’ve already established you don’t do, and I’m given to understand he prefers to date in species, which naturally rules out your august self.
Third sentence. Yes, this is factually accurate. I know few people who enjoy having to do shit, but most of us do in fact feel better after having done so and flushed the results down the toilet. You’re one of a very few I’ve encountered who feels a need to discuss it.
Fourth sentence. Meaningless fragment.
Fifth sentence. This topic is several months old. The last I heard Sarah’s son had indeed got over it, although I don’t think fucking was involved. At least, not that Sarah knew about.
Sixth sentence. Gee, you think? Remember, I’ve seen the illiterate scrawl and incomprehensible nonsense this alleged teacher has written. I’d wonder what she was on except that it doesn’t seem to be doing her any good.
Seventh sentence. What universe did you fly in from? I have never known an insecure teacher to miss an opportunity to put an “uppity” student in his place. Since you have clearly been reduced to incoherent sputtering involving silly attempts to shock us with your brilliant and incisive use of the word “fuck”, I respectfully submit that you lack the capacity to observe such sophisticated social dynamics in action. Do try. It will make your life outside the artificial hot-house that is school so much easier.
Eighth sentence. Methinks you lack familiarity with certain basics of English. While the grammar is somewhat arbitrary, it does actually serve a purpose, namely to allow people to communicate via the written word. Of course, your rant with its bizarre fixation on the sexual act suggests you might lack the capacity to appreciate the importance of this, but you’re young. You’re self-evidently full of yourself. These problems can be cured with experience.
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Ninth sentence. See above. Preferences are not rules and should not be treated as such. Teachers who treat preferences as rules are not good teachers.
Tenth sentence. Such profound philosophy. Something is good because it has “always been like that”. I respectfully submit that this is not in fact the case. For a long time humanity didn’t have a written language, much less schools in which it could be taught. This being so, your claim cannot be justified on factual, authoritative, or even moral grounds.
Eleventh sentence. I presume the use of “fuck” in this sentence is intended to add emphasis to an otherwise trite and unconvincing narrative? Pooh-bah would be most disappointed. Here’s a free hint for you, dear nony mouse: the first person to use a swear word in a debate automatically loses. Unless that person happens to be Australian, of course, since we mad Aussies tend to regard the likes of “shit”, “fuck”, “cunt” and so on as mere verbal punctuation.
Twelfth sentence. Since we’ve already established that your knowledge of basic biology is a tad shaky, the inability of a female to grow balls is something you may need pointed out to you. I respectfully suggest, having seen Sarah in action, that she has virtual balls and a virtual penis that would knock your socks off and probably eat them alive into the bargain. Your suggestion that Sarah actually talk to the teacher months after the assignment in question, when this teacher has demonstrated a lamentable unwillingness to listen, convinces me that you live somewhere in the vicinity of cloud cuckoo land. I do hope real estate values there are good, because the commute to reality must be very painful on those rare occasions you need to make it.
Thirteenth sentence. Funny, in all my time as a student and a teacher, I never knew any teacher who wanted parents and students telling them how to do their job. Telling them relevant information about their children, absolutely. Teachers need to know things like “Robert is well on his way to membership of the professional writing group in his area so you we might have a slight difference of opinion on things like his grammar and word choice.” Oh, and if you really want to play one-upmanship games, paid in real money trumps paid in copies every time.
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Ooh! It’s an actual paragraph break! Wow. Did you just think things were getting too long? You certainly aren’t using any of the normal paragraph organizing principles like one concept per paragraph.
Anyway, onwards and downwards.
Sentence 14. Here you claim to have the same teacher as Sarah’s son. Precisely why this makes everything you say correct, I couldn’t begin to guess. That means logic is also off the list of things you have learned.
Sentence 15. Wow. They teach precognition and telepathy there? Can I sign up? You actually know what I’m thinking before I think it. That’s astounding. It’s also so bloody obvious Blind Freddy would see it. Even if he was dead drunk at the time.
Sentence 16. More telepathy. Gosh. That must be the only subject you’ve actually done well in. I think you might be tuning in to the wrong author, though, because Sarah doesn’t even think proven morons are inferior. She does think they’re entertaining, which may be why your post was allowed through, but she doesn’t, as far as I know, think they’re inferior. I’ve never asked Robert about that, so I couldn’t say what he thinks.
Sentence 17. Actually, I’d really rather not. I doubt I’d enjoy it and I’m sure there are personal hygiene issues involved. Sorry. You’ll have to troll for sex elsewhere.
Sentence 18. Funny. I thought you liked English. You show a lamentable lack of comprehension here. I see no evidence of damnation by God, either. No scorch marks, no brimstone smell, nothing. Also no sign of anything above concrete reasoning and comprehension of literal terms. Hint. Sarah has already told you what she was objecting to. It wasn’t the assignment. It was the assumptions behind the assignment. But then, if you can’t comprehend anything beyond the literal, you’re not going to understand that even if it’s driven in by a large nail.
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Sigh, this really is getting to be too sad to be laughable any more. Do you really think all the profanity coming from someone who doesn’t have the balls to step forward and identify themselves is impressive? It’s not. And, I assure you, if your teacher has a modicum of self-respect and concern for her students, this is NOT the sort of behavior she ought to be encouraging.
Why are YOU making such a big deal out of this? This blog post is months old. Why are you just now crawling out of the woodwork to respond? Is it, perhaps, because you’re too dim to have found your way out before now? Or did it take you this long to draft this wonderful piece of extemporaneous prose (and, in case you can’t tell it, my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek)
Now, for a lesson. Never, ever has Sarah stated that she feels she is better than someone because she is a published author. And, to the best of my knowledge, neither has her son. What she has stated is that she is qualified to know if her son was being graded fairly on a particular assignment. In case you missed it, Sarah is not only a published author but she does have her master’s degree and she has also been a teacher. So I think it’s safe to say she knows a bit more than you do about the quality of lesson plans, grading schemes and the like.
As a parent, if your post is an example of what you’re being taught in this particular English class, I’m very worried. Your sentence structure leaves much to be desired. We won’t even begin to talk about all the comma faults and dangling modifiers. I will say that your last sentence is indicative of just how little it appears you have actually learned from this teacher. Tell me, how do you “teacher your son yourself”?
I only have one other comment. Is it a correct assumption that you posted this tirade anonymously because you haven’t yet figured out it is all too easy to discover not only who you are but from what computer you posted this masterpiece of illiterate drivel?
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Silly twit.
Ok, moron, if you want to make a point, first you do *NOT* indulge yourself in gutter language. Then, you don’t rant. Make your point as politely as possible.
What you have revealed about yourself is that you are a drooling geek who can not hold a polite discussion to save your life, which gives everyone who reads your incoherent and vulgar rant carte blanche to ignore everything you say.
Nothing that you say in this forum will ever be taken seriously. And since the owner of the blog logs IP addresses, she knows where you live.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
–Steffan
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As this rather sad rant has been fairly well dissected lets move on to other aspects of it.
You may wish to hold up a mirror and gaze into it. I feel you have projected your own feeling about yourself into the post. Worse you hide behind the mask of anonymity and try to proclaim yourself satisfied wit the teacher who the initial rant was never really about. Sorry that doesn’t wash, if you don’t have the guts to stand up and name yourself then why does your claim to being a parent of a student in that class count? For that matter since the teacher and school where never named how do you know that your student is in that teachers class?
You obviously didn’t bother to read the post you replied to, instead you simply ranted. Sarah didn’t rant about the teacher really, she ranted about the the nasty evil fad the teacher has fallen for and embarrassed. It would pay you to learn to engage your brain and think about what you are replying to in the first place.
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Culture…?
Lovely.
Why is it that so many post pubescent candidates for anal-electroencephalograms always resort to such monosyllabic expletives?
Perhaps it’s the superb grammatical instruction received in socialistic institutes of brainwashing…….er…. learning?
Perhaps not..perhaps it’s just immaturity.
Pathetic.
Everitt Mickey
(a heavy haul trucker and former military who has HEARD cussing….and you don’t come close)
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She has more guts than you because she is willing to put her name on what she writes.
She has more manners than you because she can speak without swearing.
She has taught her children to think for themselves and to stand up whenn something is wrong.
As for speaking to teachers, let me educate you real quick, I have sat down with countless teachers, I have had to bring lawyers in on occassion because of teachers that thought it was okay for their favorite students to beat on the other students. I have had to bring lawyers in because of teachers that didn’t think they needed to send a child to a nurse after being knocked unconcious by another kid that hit them with a belt from behind. The same teacher that told the child to lie to their parents about it. This is actually a crime.
A teacher that wants the best for their students would encourage students to be creative and would believe their is more than one way to do something. They would also not present a form of bigotry by judging another students based on their names or looks, by requesting that Robert write a report based on his heritage she is showing a form of bigotry, it is very offensive to some people.
Oh and if your teacher was so supportive there wouldn’t be a problem would there.
You see the one thing that comes out in all of this, Robert didn’t feel that the teacher was being very supportive, and that is very sad. How many other students are there that didn’t speak up, you might be suprised.
Robin Brooks
I have the courage to give my name, why don’t you
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Re: Afterthoughts
BAD DAR. I have to delete it. Leave the lewd and undeveloped comments to the lewd and undeveloped troll.
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Sentence 23. Really? You actually see this, or is this that telepathy again? You see, unless you see every comment on every graded paper, or are privy to every interaction she has with her students, you can’t actually know if she really is always supportive. What I’ve seen suggests that she’s more inclined to put down people who aren’t nice obedient little drones and that she’s insecure enough that she makes quicksand look like granite.
Sentence 24. Oh you poor thing. Fancy having that as the best person and teacher you’ve ever met. My heart bleeds for you. If you have a powerful enough microscope, you might even be able to see the blood.
Sentence 25. You do realize this is illegal, right? And that you loving your English teacher could get her into a lot of trouble. As I understand it, you’re still under the age of consent, and she isn’t. If you are a shining example of what she does for her students, I must respectfully decline. The only skill in English I’ve seen so far is what I’d consider basic eighth grade level. Possibly less, given your complete lack of reasoning skill and inability to handle abstractions.
Sentence 26. If your teacher has been like a friend to you, she is not doing her job. Her job is to teach you, not to be your bestest buddy ever. Bestest buddies don’t usually tell you when you’ve screwed up, teachers do. Remember this. It helps to be able to tell the difference.
Sentence 27. Fragment. Oh, and do be careful of these unqualified statements. I rather suspect that you can’t talk to her about some things, like… oh, your illicit love for her, or your possible addiction to mind-altering substances (I can’t think of any other way someone intelligent enough to qualify for IB would display such stupidity. Maybe someone with more experience in stupid can help me here)
Sentence 28. We’ve already dealt with the friend aspect of things. I’m inclined to agree that yes, this is an amazing English teacher. Unfortunately, amazing simply means that it’s very hard to believe. Things can be amazing and bad you know. Of course, if you haven’t been taught logic and critical thinking, or you can’t understand these things, you’re not likely to see patronization or incompetence. You just don’t have the mental tool set for it.
Final sentence. Quite the run-on sentence this, and such hostility. Clearly you find it terribly offensive that anyone could possibly have any kind of disagreement with this English teacher. I recommend you chose something less likely to disappoint for your idol-worshiping, like a rock or something. No-one can disagree with a rock, and your tender sensibilities would be saved a great deal of bruising.
And that, my oh so brave nony mouse, is that. Please try to study harder, because the skills you lack are skills that are needed out there in the real world. You still have time to recover from the terrible abuse you have so clearly suffered at the unfeeling appendages of the school system.
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Mrs. Hoyt,
First and foremost, I have read your entire blog and understand your argument. It is true that culture does not equal genetics. I agree with this notion and realize that the point of your blog was not to patronize or attack the teacher. You make several insightful points and I truly appreciate your opinions. However, my primary concern lies in the fact that, in my view, you did, in some cases, criticize our teacher. Trust me, I have complained about my fair share of assignments that I found inappropriate or unnecessary. However, there is a difference between a bad assignment and a bad teacher. There is also a difference between complaining about a teacher in the privacy of your home or with the teacher themselves, and complaining about a teacher in a public forum. With that said, I wish to formally apologize for my classmates’ improper comments. I assure you that they meant no harm.
All I ask is that you understand where we are coming from. I personally feel as though our English teacher is one of the best educators I have ever encountered in my 12 years of public schooling. She not only taught me the importance of literature, she has also inspired me as a student and learner. It is teachers like her that make me passionate about learning. Finally I wish to clarify that our English teacher made no mention of your blog. We are all self-motivated students who independently replied to you. It may be our hormones that are telling us to write these posts, but regardless, the shear number of positive responses for our teacher demonstrates the impact she has had on all of our lives.
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Dear Anon,
Because your comment is moderately literate and at least superficially polite, I have unscreened it. I am, however, going to analyse it. And in future, I will answer no more anonymous posts. You want to discuss things with me, sign it. Caleb did and I didn’t bite him.
“First and foremost, I have read your entire blog and understand your argument.”
You read ALL of it? Really? Including the Wizzy Wiggs saga? WHY?
If you understand my argument, then why are you defending a teacher who was never under attack? I snarked about her annoying characteristics. It might surprise you to know she’s human and that she can be mocked. I will later be posting a reading list for your class. For now, consider reading The Name Of The Rose by Umberto Eco, possibly the only Nobel Prize winner in my conscious life that deserves reading. The final point of theology on which the solution to the mystery hinges is relevant to this attitude. (And don’t watch the movie. It has NOTHING to do with the book.)
“It is true that culture does not equal genetics. I agree with this notion and realize that the point of your blog was not to patronize or attack the teacher. ”
Indeed. First, I’m glad you agree with the “notion” which is as much a “notion” as gravity is a “notion.” Psychologists and sociologists throughout the world rejoice.
As for patronizing and attacking the teacher, do you mean the teacher who was never named in the school that was never named? It might interest you to know I know FOUR IB teachers who are once-published-poets. It might also interest you to know there are TWO IB programs in this city and about six in the rest of Colorado. Oh, and though this might be a bit over your head, not only is there another Robert Hoyt in Colorado, but he’s in IB in a totally different city. Same year as Robert. How do I know this? Because his parents used to live in town and, by coincidence, his parents have the same name my husband and I do. This is borderline freaky, and yet true. Hoyt is a common name in Colorado. Google “Hoyt, Colorado.” It’s a city. Founded by… Hoyts.
Not only was the teacher not named, she was unidentifiable to anyone but those who already knew her. And then only because she’s the ONLY person I have ever heard of afflicted by pronoun-a-phobia.
IF I wanted to attack her I could do what I almost did last December when I was taking some clothes into my son’s room and saw a graded paper on his desk — I could post his answers and HER comments. TRUST me, I’m a teacher. I was trained for and TAUGHT Gifted and Talented. Her comments were much like the poster’s who called me names, only without the profanity. Posting this would destroy whatever reputation she still has and, in case you wonder, I can be INCREDIBLY snarky with material like that. I could make such a comment and critique an overnight blog sensation, linked by major sites interested in education.
Why didn’t I do it? She’s young. There is hope she will learn. There is hope she will grow up. She might be redeemable. (Although for reasons I’ll mention below I’m starting to doubt it, and continued harping on how she shouldn’t be criticized will tempt my worst angels.)
“However, my primary concern lies in the fact that, in my view, you did, in some cases, criticize our teacher. ”
And this is a bad thing, because? Considering I criticized her without naming her… this affects her/you, because?
If you read my “entire” blog you read the posters who are teachers and who mentioned good teachers establish blogs where people CAN criticize them. If this shocks you, again, you shouldn’t be so subservient to ANY authority. That is the mentality of a serf, not a leader.
(continued)
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And might I add I am SHOCKED that the IB program, which is supposed to foster critical thinking is producing so many people SHOCKED someone might consider their teacher less than perfect? Look, my best teachers, my greatest professors, those who are authorities in their field, fell short of perfect. And I wouldn’t have been shocked if a parent took issue with their stranger notions. (If you think your teacher doesn’t have strange notions, consider that “article phobia” is no part of anyone’s theory of writing or style. Unclear antecedents for pronouns are a problem. Pronouns by themselves are just a part of the language and very useful.)
“Trust me, I have complained about my fair share of assignments that I found inappropriate or unnecessary.”
And? This attempt at empathy falls short of the point I’ve made — how many dozen times now? — that the assignment was not just inappropriate or unnecessary (I class most of what my kids do in school as “button counting.”) If I blogged about those, I would do NOTHING else. This assignment was PERNICIOUS and detrimental to the students’ world view and their critical thinking skills.
Okay — thought experiment. Let’s say ten years from now, you’re married, with a child. Your child comes home and tells you, “We’re supposed to do an assignment on how all *insert race here* are lazy and stupid.” Regardless of what you thought or didn’t think of the teacher, how would you react? As far as I was concerned this is the mentality that assignment fosters.
And whether the assignment was “Your cultural ancestry” or not, again, that’s how most people understood it, which leads me to believe there was something in how it was phrased. The further reason to believe this is that I’ve lived with my son for sixteen years. He’s not infallible. He can be a right royal pain in the backside. HOWEVER he’s an IB student. You tell me how often you guys misunderstand “for point” assignments. There are IB jokes on this subject!
“However, there is a difference between a bad assignment and a bad teacher.”
Yes. Granted. A lot of these assignments come from above. Note that to the extent I criticized your teacher, it was for other things. Note also that those were light, glancing blows. I could do MUCH worse. Note that I didn’t identify her or even give many of her defining characteristics. I COULD have.
“There is also a difference between complaining about a teacher in the privacy of your home or with the teacher themselves, and complaining about a teacher in a public forum.”
Yes, there is a difference. When I complain in a public forum I make my peers and other parents aware of the sad state of education even for the very gifted. Your point is? If I had named her and said “Ms so and so is a bad, bad teacher” it would STILL be valid. It would still be within my rights. My TAXES pay for the teacher. She is a PUBLIC employee.
In case your in-depth reading of my blog missed this — I grew up under a socialist regime. The idea that you should only criticize authorities in private is very well known to me. And repulsive. Private criticism makes it impossible for people to realize others are facing the same problem. I assign you to read The Gulag Archipelago, which I first read in a photocopy, clandestinely passed around my ninth grade class. It wasn’t “forbidden” as such but it was frowned upon. As in this would definitely be reflected on your grades and affect your chances at college. Hence, photocopies. And brown paper covers.
(continued)
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“With that said, I wish to formally apologize for my classmates’ improper comments. I assure you that they meant no harm.”
IMPROPER? I’d say improper, illiterate and illogical. I’d also be ashamed to be associated with them in any way shape or form.
As for no harm, consider this — although I stray into my personal life now and then, because a lot of the fans/friends who read this have an interest or because the anecdote illustrates a larger point, as this one did, this blog is attached to my professional image. Although I’m fairly sure the circus here in the last couple of days has not hurt it, it’s also not even REMOTELY related to writing, except as far as you and your classmates have provided bad examples of it.
I’ve also lost two days of my work under an avalanche of what amounts to a “cyber attack.” Contrary to the idea that I write for my ego or derive “superiority” from it — an idea that would be at best hilarious to anyone in this field. Our experiences mostly resemble an unending series of kicks in the teeth, except for the very lucky few — this is my job. I get paid for it. My monetary contribution is NECESSARY to this household.
Imagine — a thought experiment again — that your classmates decided something your father did/said MONTHS ago without identifying the teacher/school he referred to was mortally injurious to the honor/standing of a teacher who is very popular with the class. (Something that has NOTHING to do with being a good teacher, btw. In fact, it’s often proof one is NOT a good teacher, whatever the sixties generation believed.) They decide to go to where he works and stand in his office screaming at him. He tries to ignore them but every five minutes, another one screams. So he starts answering them and all of them, even the polite ones, keep repeating the same things he already disproved, until it’s obvious they don’t want to listen, they just want to yell at him for this “bad” thing he did, which no one would have noticed till THEY called attention to it.
Would you see it as their having done him no harm? Now suppose because of this your father will have to spend the weekend working to make up time lost. Suppose you had a family trip planned. (BOTH of these apply in this case.) Would this be no harm?
Again, critical thinking skills and evaluation of consequences are missing here. To “defend” your teacher, in a blog that’s NOT primarily about education, in a post in which she was never named nor her school identified, you flocked to interfere with someone’s performance of her job.
Yep, seems like the teacher is doing a fine job of teaching you empathy — which is at least part of analysing literature — and logical thinking.
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“All I ask is that you understand where we are coming from. ”
I DO understand where you’re coming from. Oh, I do. You’re coming from a cult of personality, where your teacher’s self-esteem (She is of that generation, poor thing) is so important, she can’t stand the idea that anyone, anywhere can refrain from agreeing with her or could possibly think her less than stellar. This attitude — EXPLICIT or not — has communicated itself to her students.
“I personally feel as though our English teacher is one of the best educators I have ever encountered in my 12 years of public schooling.”
My sentiments. This goes to the heart of why MORE parents should blog about the state of our education and the senseless/counterproductive things that teachers do or their lack of preparation to teach.
Since ours is a national education system, this is a matter of national concern. I know we’re all very busy, but we’ll just have to keep a closer eye on teachers from now on.
Also and for the record your feelings are never proof of anything.
“She not only taught me the importance of literature, she has also inspired me as a student and learner.”
Really? Do you know, in one of my final tests in college, the question was as follows “What is the difference between literature and real life.” This was THE question upon which my graduating from Theory of Literature hinged.
I answered by comparing literature to Plato’s cave. What you think you see in real life is actually the projected images in the cave. Literature is the only way you can see “the real thing.”
Though it is not my job to teach you the importance of literature, and though doing so would take FAR longer than I have, let me give you a quick look-see:
Reality is chaotic. The human brain is a mechanism for ordering reality. Literature is the only thing that gives us the ability to “see” into others’ minds, and see how they order reality. For this reason, it is very important. (Other reasons too.)
We’ll leave alone the fact that I know what you’ve been reading and most of it falls under more “trendy” than any definition of literature that will stand the test of time. You could get the same — very flawed — points by reading Marx’s books. We’ll even leave aside the fact I’ve read her graded tests — IF your teacher has managed to communicate to the class that different brains process reality in different ways; that we’re all prisoners of our time/age/class except for the ability to experience someone else’s mind in a book (Movies don’t do it, they’re externalized) NONE of the commenters so far showed it. No, not even you.
Also the reading comprehension on display and the constant resurgence of things that I or my posters have disposed of (“You should never criticize a teacher personally” being one of those) tells me your ability to process/analyse information is less than stellar. If she’s not teaching you to extract meaning from text WHAT is she doing?
The needless, sweeping, palpably inaccurate statements such as “I’ve read your entire blog” and repetitive phrasing “As a student and a learner” betray a sad lack of understanding of HOW to express yourself in writing.
Let me add, cold comfort though it is, that so far you’re the best I’ve seen of your teacher’s handywork. YOU are condemning her in a way I never wanted to and could never manage on my own. Reminds me of a poem by Reiner Kunze on the celebrations on Lenin’s anniversary “Even if he wanted to be remembered this way/It would be an insult.”
(continued)
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On a personal note — Robert does write. Professionally. Since we’re not a wealthy family – whatever you heard about what writers make is oh, so wrong – this is part of how he intends to finance his education. I’ve hesitated to even mention this, but your teacher with her insane obsessions with pronouns (Oh, yeah and barring the word “show” because — and this is a direct quote, ladies and gentlemen who normally read this blog: “I see words as little images, and “show” is a little man who comes out and flashes you.” Yes, she teaches eleventh grade to a supposedly GIFTED program. Not, as it might sound, second grade) and whatever else Robert hasn’t gotten around to mentioning (MOST of her comments on Robert’s papers could be effectively countered with “sounds like a personal problem to me.”) has RUINED Robert’s style and voice. I could simply type in his essays from the end of last year and his essays now, when he engages in verbal contortions to avoid triggering the teacher’s phobias. THAT too would be sufficient indictment of her and her teaching “methods.” And before you say you shouldn’t allow a teacher to do that. True. But he’s with her almost every day. I’ve seen editors and agents do this to professionals. He doesn’t have enough experience to avoid its being done to him. Nor should he have to.
Oh, mind you, it will pass. But she has cost him probably — already — a couple of novel sales, because his revision of the novel — requested by the editor — is on hold till he’s out from under this teacher’s influence.
“It is teachers like her that make me passionate about learning.”
Learning WHAT exactly? Being passionate about generic “learning” is not a virtue, whatever they taught you in your school. I could spend the rest of my life learning the fine art of gilding dog poop. Would that be a valuable skill? Is all learning equal? What if I were “passionate” about it? Do feelings trump logic?
Let me see what you and your classmates have demonstrated you’ve learned in this blog in the last day: That those in authority cannot be “dissed” by a mere parent? That anyone who does so, no matter how obliquely, deserves a full frontal attack and a “reality check”? That the use of profanity is the clincher in an argument? That teachers are superhuman beings and – like the devil – should never be mocked?
Or simply that “literature” is important? That you are both a student and a learner? That you have the capacity for empathy of a small rock? That you are completely and thoroughly devoid of the burden of any knowledge of philosophy, history, logic, language and (as I’ll prove below) STATISTICS.
I realize most of this is not an ENGLISH teacher’s fault. You’ve been failed by a much larger system. Still, she never taught you the importance of clear and specific writing; never made it possible for you to make a point in a readable and pleasant manner. Also, she hasn’t encouraged critical thinking skills — which I believe are part of IB mission? And she hasn’t taught you reading comprehension. YES I can get all this from yours and your classmates’ comments. You could too, if you had been taught to analyse text.
However, on the off chance she made you passionate about learning SOMETHING, I assign you to reading Stephen King’s On Writing; Strunk and White Elements of Style; Renni Browne and Dave King’s Self Editing for Fiction Writers; James Kilpatrick’s The Writer’s art.
(continued)
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“Finally I wish to clarify that our English teacher made no mention of your blog.”
Very interesting that you need to mention this. I am then left to assume that, as my colleague Kate Paulk pointed out, your teacher is at least very efficient in teaching mind-reading, since ALL of the posters harp on the fact I haven’t talked to/met the teacher. HOW do you know that? This post is SIX months old. I haven’t mentioned the teacher again. HOW do you know I haven’t talked to her? Well, tell me. I’d love to know.
BTW I’ve avoided mentioning her all these months because she’s not that important to me, whatever the gravitational position she holds in her students’ life — not for lack of temptation.
By the way, just as an FYI, that temptation is looking SWEETER by the minute. In fact, the song “One step over the line, sweet Jesus, one step over the line” has been running through my head. I am EAGER for that step to be taken, because since yesterday I’ve found I DO have so much to say about THIS teacher specifically, with school mentioned. And city. And program. And the teacher’s name.
More importantly, you know, I DO have her graded papers — well, Robert does, but he’s at school. And I’m home. And I know where he keeps his stuff. I could just post those with my responses to her comments. That would be fun, wouldn’t it? Well… for me and my regular readers. Or how about I dig through my mailbox where the now deleted anonymous comments are stored and illustrate her pedagogical art in her students’ stellar words? (Humming — one step over the line, sweet Jesus.)
LET me add that ALL of you seem to labor under the impression that I am either fair or NICE. Even the little girl who called me a bitch was under the impression the word would shock me. This is often a tactic used on middle-aged women by aggressive youngsters.
But, you see, I lived through rougher times than you can imagine. My confrontational experiences have included people pointing machine guns at me. They didn’t shut me up, so “bitch” and guilt trips over dissing a teacher “in a public forum” are likely to fail as well. Actually, because I’m of a contrarian disposition, it will PUSH me the other way.
As you will learn — and it IS a valuable experience, perhaps the most valuable in your life — things don’t always go EXACTLY according to plan. Google “Law of unintended consequences” for your further enlightenment.
I have tried to be fair. And in deference for the fact that both you posters and your teacher (if indeed there is a difference) — at least as shown in your comments — are emotionally younger than my thirteen year old who is very young indeed, I’ve held my fire. But this is very rapidly reaching the point where I take off the gloves. TRUST me this is something none of you wants. And it’s not a threat. It’s a promise. You’re a little old for this movie, but I’m sure you’ve heard “Make my day!” Do. Please.
“We are all self-motivated students who independently replied to you.”
Okay, this one has me puzzled. Are you in the advanced Math program? Because so far, I’ve believed that teacher to be competent. Sometimes a little strange, but competent. HOWEVER if you are in the advanced math program, I will have to revise this opinion.
Consider this — the post did not mention your school and your teacher by name. I can perfectly understand the wish to google schools/teachers. Writers google agents and editors ALL the time. However, a google for your school name and teacher, would NOT bring this up.
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So, let’s say the idea that Robert’s mom writes has gotten around, and that all of you decided to look at my blog. AT THE SAME TIME. In this incredibly compressed period of time. First, it’s not that FASCINATING and I know blog-reading behavior. You read one page, maybe two. Snicker at the idea that to me Robert is a child. Okayfine. IF – and considering how far back you have to go, this is unlikely – you find that post, you might drop a CASUAL “Hey, the teacher is okay, and the assignment wasn’t THAT.” At normal rate of responses, I would get maybe one of these a month for the next two years.
BUT why did ALL of you — AT THE SAME TIME — not, a trickle over weeks/months but in the space of — now — thirty some hours — post “independently” to the same SIX MONTHS OLD post. And how do you ALL manage to misinterpret the post in exactly the same way and bring up the exact same “points.”
I’m not the mathematician in the house. My husband is. I’m sure he can give me a seat of the pants estimate on the probability — or even possibility — that you’re all posting independently. However, even without being a mathematician, I can safely say it is FAR lower than the possibility that a coin, when thrown, will fall neither on one side nor on edge, but will remain suspended middair.
I’m sorry, I don’t believe in magic. I only write it as FICTION.
In a court of law the messages of the last day are prima-facie evidence of “a conspiracy to harass.” No jury would buy that “independent” thing.
To avoid this type of embarrassment in the future, I recommend reading “The cartoon guide to statistics” by Larry Gonick. It will serve you well in life. Oh, and it’s funny too.
” It may be our hormones that are telling us to write these posts”
WHAT is this? The son of Sam defense? If your hormones are in any way concerned with your English teacher, someone at the school should look into it ASAP. (One step over the line, Sweet Jesus.) And if you believe your hormones actually TALK to you, hie thee with all speed to either the detox center or the psychiatrist.
If what you MEANT — without sounding deranged — is that “the emotional turmoil of adolescence might be responsible for these posts” let me just say “No.” Lack of understanding of the world and self control, plus the unhealthy atmosphere your teacher has CLEARLY fostered, plus the antics of a school system devoted to the deification of teachers as uber-menschen has caused you to write this. As weird as this is — adults have hormones too. In a a court of law, “My hormones made me do it” is no more a defense than “but the dog told me to cut up the neighbors and put their pieces in a trash bag.” No, wait. I correct myself. There is NO way to express what you tried to say without sounding insane.
I assign you to read Red Planet and Podkayne of Mars, for a better understanding of the concept of “individual responsibility” which seems to have completely evaded you.
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“but regardless, the shear number of positive responses for our teacher demonstrates the impact she has had on all of our lives.”
Yes, yes, indeed it does. However, to quote my friend Kate, impact can be either good or bad and in this case I would say it is uniformly bad — just from what I see in my blog.
I will not be so unkind as to make fun of your typo. I’m the queen of typos, that’s why I have copy editors. However there is a psychological school that believes that typos reveal the deeper works of the subconscious and often try to sound the alarm about a behavior that we are not consciously aware of.
Your typo made me think of sheep, which is what you and your classmates have shown yourselves to be on this blog.
Quickly, let me disabuse of some notions:
A popular teacher is not necessarily a good teacher. I’m sure my posters who were in school in the sixties can provide plenty of examples.
Perhaps you heard of the Ward Churchill controversy here in Colorado? How he got a job by pretending to be a Native American and spent his time preaching hatred between races and moaning his victim status. Perhaps you know most of his writing and “art” was not written/created by him but plagiarized? Well, he was such a popular teacher that some of his students are still in denial over his failings. He was teaching them lies. He was a total fraud, inept and such a looser that he stole other people’s creations. BUT he was VERY popular.
A good way to get students’ adoration is to give them power over adults and to encourage them to think that they are in awe of you. As a general guideline ANY teacher who comes into the classroom and starts off with “I’m sure you’ll teach me more than I’ll teach you” is a BAD teacher. They’re trying to get your buy-in on their personality, not their competence. Now, I don’t know if your teacher has done this, but I would bet she did. (Well, give it a little leeway. Some teachers say this because they think they have to. OBSERVE them. If they mean it, they are no good.)
Your teacher is supposed to command your RESPECT for concrete achievements; not your “love” for her being “a friend” — the other is a Hollywood fairytale.
GOOD teachers live on after death and their written words influence generations yet unborn. This is not a function of being “the most caring person ever!” It’s a function of having something to teach and communicating it effectively.
Beyond this, the fact you ALL rushed to defend her, even though she hadn’t been attacked, betrays a form of insanity usually found in cults.
Please, for your own sake and the sake of your future, read “Seductive Poison: A Jonestown survivor’s story by Deborah Layton.
Also, because this is one of the ways adults use to gain power over teens and convince them that the adult is “special” and “important” and “must be defended” read about the cultural revolution. A GOOD — i.e., not “official” coming from a dictatorship — biography of Mao will help. Read biographies of people who survived the cultural revolution, too. It might give you some insight into the processes of being “loved” and how illegitimate they can be when foisted by a figure of authority from above.
Since I’ve given most of the reading list already, you might wish to read “Kicking the Sacred Cow” by James P. Hogan, which, if read and absorbed, even if you don’t agree with everything he says, will give you a little more understanding into the world.
And for the love of Heaven, stop sipping that koolaid.
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All I ask is that you understand where we are coming from. I personally feel as though our English teacher is one of the best educators I have ever encountered in my 12 years of public schooling.
Ah, Sarah, this is the best part! Look: we have an expert on teaching — he’s been a student for 12 years now!
No need to require teachers to have a master’s degree in education (which is worthless anyway, as demonstrated by the lack of ability in this case) or even any college and post-college education or training whatsoever.
The sad thing is, teenagers are both arrogant and brain-impaired. The two states go hand-in-hand, one supporting the other through this extremely turbulent period of life.
There’s some very good studies recently showing that adolescent brains are less capable than those of pre-teens, as they lose some “critical” functions during reorganization and hormonal changes. Anyone who has endured those teen years knows just how stupid we were, and how lucky we were to survive.
Child, the owner of this blog does not need to understand you at all. You have not earned any respect from any adult, much less “understanding”. All you deserve is a time-out, and extra homework. All of you need to go home and get back to your school work. The grownup table has no room for you, and you haven’t demonstrated any adult behaviors.
Liking your teacher is fine and dandy; attacking people with a difference of opinion is harassment and is bound to get you into a peck of trouble — grown-up trouble, not juvenile stuff. Getting the adults mad at you can only end badly.
Go home.
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Teachers
It is the job of every parent to ensure the teachers are teaching our children. We can provide our feedback in any method we feel is fit. In fact the US Constitution fully supports us doing it in the method Mrs. Hoyt has done.
The teachers also work for us and if we believe they are wrong in how they are teaching our kids we have the right again to say something. Some parents bring in lawyers and make all kids suffer. Some parents call in TV stations, Radio stations, some newspapers.
As for her makiing her complaint public, it is her right to do that. As for myself I would rather have someone post something on a web site where I can read it. Then to have them get together with all the other parents and talk about me behind my back. Mrs. Hoyt could have done that but she didn’t.
Now you may think that your English teacher is the greatest and she may very well be a great teacher, but she isn’t perfect and her actions were offensive to at least one person, and where there is one willing to speak up there are many others that are not.
Like Mrs. Hoyt I have more than once stood alone for what I believe is right. This county was founded on people like her and me, ones willing to stand up when we see something wrong and say something. She didn’t ask you or anyone else to agree with her. She was hurt first by the teacher and now months later when the wounds were healed you and your fellow students have come out and hurt her again and there is a good possibilty you have injured her sons as well.
The criticizm for her action is lost when those of you posted your comments on the internet, and turned many of you into hypocrites.
I say many of you because I don’t look at you in the same light, many because of your manners. You saw what you thought was wrong and spoke out much like Mrs. Hoyt did. We need young people that are willing to think and speak out while remembering to show respect and good manners. Just remember one thing some of us have lived life already and the most dangerous person in the world is a mother, especially one who feels their child has been harmed.
If you remember that you will avoid many pitfalls when dealing with women, we may seem weak and our voices may be soft, however when we feel our family is threatened like a cat we bring out our claws and no longer seem so soft and gentle.
Robin Brooks
PS be strong enough to use your name it will gain you more respect in the future.
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Editing of asininity
Well, as argonel doesn’t wish to post an edited version, I shall. Without the struck outs or the red text, and just tightened up so it reads better. Mayhaps you should hand this into your English teacher so she can appropriately grade your missive. By the way, contractions are, no matter what teachers may have told you, a good thing and can demonstrate actual facility with the language.
I think you’re wrong. Your son had an assignment that he was supposed to do. Everyone has to do things they don’t want to do in life. It’s school. Your son needs to get over it. He could’ve done the assignment on what he thought his culture was.
I’m sure the teacher would’ve listened to his explanation for completing his project the way he did, and wouldn’t’ve marked him down.
The whole pronouns thing is just how his teacher might be. Every teacher has pet peeves, you just have to learn what they are and suck up to them. It’s always been that way in school and it will continue to be so.
Why didn’t you talk to the teacher. That’s what teachers say they want; for parents and students to talk to them to enhance their teaching ability.
You and your son seem to think that because someone hasn’t published a book they’re inferior to you. I have to say to both of you, you’re not better than anyone. If you were better than the rest of us, you would’ve done the adult thing and talked to the teacher in person.
Your son’s English teacher, MY English teacher, is a great person and wants nothing but the best for her students. You don’t know her so you can’t decry her or her teaching.
You don’t see her on an almost daily basis. She is always supportive of every student in my experience. She is one of the BEST teachers and people I have ever met.
I can honestly say that I LOVE what she had taught and done for me. She has been like a friend to me, someone I can talk to about anything I may need to.
Along with being a friend she has been an amazing teacher. If you consider your son to be such a great student and yourself so good a teacher, teach him yourself.
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publik edukashun
I’m not sure if this is getting posted correctly, I’m completely unfamiliar with LiveJournal, or blogs in general. Please forgive any faux pas. Since this discussion began with an English class assignment, I must warn everyone that I intentionally will not be following standard conventions in some of my structure. I don’t think linearly, and when I can afford to, I prefer to write much the same way I think. I admit to being in love with parenthetical statements and even sentence fragments. I do not apologize for them, but do promise to try and not overdo it.
I know that I come to this thread a little late, but decided to throw my 1 ½ cents worth in. In reading your original post, and subsequent replies, I was struck by you conciseness and the accuracy of most of your observations. The few nits I have with them have already been addressed (albeit indirectly) by some of your respondents, so I will leave them alone. One thing struck me odd, however, about your observations and those who deigned to criticize them. Regardless of the value (or lack thereof) of the assignment, there is no way that this assignment was an English exercise. At best, it belonged as a Social Studies assignment; at worst, a blatant attempt at indoctrination by “someone” (school board, local school administration, teacher). Unless the exercise was meant to be graded on composition and the substance ignored (not claimed by anyone involved with the assignment), this was, by definition, not an English assignment. I wonder why anyone involved with an advanced class would waste students’ time in an English class with non-English related work?
That observation out of the way, I would like to recount a couple of experiences I had in the public education system. One of them occurred when I was a senior in high school, the other much later, in college.
(continued)
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publik edukasun (pt2)
The year was 1972. I was attending my tenth school in 12 years. I was given a writing assignment in History class. The teacher was reasonably competent (a rarity, in my experience), and the assignment was appropriate and useful. By making trips to the university library in a town 40 miles away, I was able to turn in a well-researched, thoroughly referenced paper in the proper format mandated by the syllabus. I not only received an A for the paper, but it was singled out for praise by the teacher. Needless to say, I was feeling quite proud of my achievement (and not a little full of myself).
That feeling did not last long. The following day, before the start of my first class, I was summoned to the principal’s office. I was informed that the grade for my paper was being set aside and if I did not rewrite the paper, with a more “appropriate” subject, I would fail the entire term. He gave me a letter reiterating this demand to e delivered to my parents. (to the best of my recollection, no “insurance” letter was sent by post as backup.) When I showed the letter to my parents, my father’s first reaction was “I Told You So.” Since he had to work the next day, and my mother had proven more effective in similar situations in the past, (not just with school officials, but with any unpleasant confrontations) it was decided that she would accompany me to school the next day.
No one expected her meeting with the school’s principal to result in any final conclusion, but it did set up an appointment with the school board at their next assemblage, in two weeks. At that meeting, which I attended, my mother carefully and calmly questioned the board members about their ultimatum, especially their reasoning of why such an ultimatum was thought to be necessary. The responses she received were worse than anything I have seen in this discussion thread concerning a lack of coherent, logical reasoning. Individually, and as a group, it came down to a faintly vitriolic version of “Because we said so.” (My parents stopped using this argument on us kids by the time we were 4.) At this point, my mother weary of trying to hold an adult dialog with the board issued her ultimatum: Restore my grade, or she would bring suit against the board. This was summarily dismissed as an idle threat by an “irate housewife”.
Housewife, check. Irate, check. Threat, double check. Idle? My uncle is a lawyer upstate, and on of my father’s poker buddies was the county judge. Do the math. I got my A.
Fast forward 25 years. My military career successfully concluded, I decided to finish my college education (thanks to the GI Bill). For my senior thesis, I chose to continue in the family tradition of upsetting the “establishment’s” applecart and write about what I felt was wrong with the public education system.
I won’t resubmit the entire thesis here, but suffice it to say, it was _not_ flattering to the people employed in the educational field. Of necessity, due to the subject material, my thesis advisor was a professor of Education at the university (even though my degree was not through their school). Based on (sparse) editorial comments supplied on the first draft of the paper, I knew that had accomplished my primary goal, and _really_ tweaked his nose. But, since the paper was well-researched, thoroughly referenced, used the approved format, and the professor had the same integrity that my high school History teacher did, I passed, and got my diploma.
Are there good (even great) teachers out there? Of course. But they fight an uphill battle against a corrupt, politicized, ineffectual system to give children what they need. It’s no wonder so few (of the good ones) last till retirement.
(continued)
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publik edukashun (pt3)
For any who might be interested, My thesis contained three main arguments.
The current educational system in the US does not require fixing, it requires complete dismantling a new system installed in its place. This entails a change of infrastructure as well as a total change in our cultural (sorry, Sarah) approach to what “education” means.
Financing of education also needs to be rethought. I do not mean that “new” sources of funding (or even increases in funding) are required, but that with a change in educational philosophy, and a total revamp of infrastructure, different ways of funding are required to ensure that each community’s need are met. (note: As it relates to the paragraph above, not all communities have all the same educational requirements; a quality education is never a one-size-fits-all situation, something disavowed by the current paradigm)
Today’s educators, under _any_ system you can find, are not professionals. They are tradesmen, by definition. (The NEA is not now, nor ever has been a “professional organization”. It is a labor union, and behaves as such.) While not disparaging unions in general, or even the NEA in particular, the self-delusion of many teachers often gets in the way of their primary purpose, which is _not_ to stay employed (the primary purpose of unions).
So, Sarah. Keep doing whatever it takes to take care of your kids. I look forward to seeing your name on the cover of book in my library soon.
Ed Graham
MSGt (ret) USAF
professional a**hole
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Re: publik edukashun (pt3)
My sons have been very lucky to have some SPECTACULARLY wonderful teachers. I’d name those, but, of course, it identifies the school district. Let’s just say Eric — who is a handful in more ways than one — managed to coast till third grade with such minimal work that I wasn’t sure whether he could read and most of his teachers assumed he was subnormal. (I suspected he could read only because I kept finding mysteries in his room.) It took his third grade teacher to show us his problem was that he was very bored and very, very smart. Even our family bores him. I’ve since found the only way to keep him happy, well adjusted and cooperative is to keep him challenged. This is why he’s been homeschooled until he learns to challenge himself. No school should be saddled with it. Even for me it’s a full time job, in addition to my other full time jobs.
If that teacher hadn’t seen through him, though, he’d probably have sleep-walked through school and possibly life.
Robert has had too many stellar teachers to mention, a lot of them before he went into the IB program and a lot of them after. His kindergarten teacher was wonderful. His third and fourth grade teachers were very god. His history and his drama teacher in middle school were particularly fine teachers and he loved both of their classes. His history teacher and his math teacher last year made those classes not only learning experiences but very enjoyable. This year he loves his biology class and finds his teacher a challenging match for his mind. His French teacher, too, has done wonders for his command of the language and his interest in it. I go in awe of her, because that was something I tried to do and Robert resisted me and told me “I don’t like French” as though that were a trump card.
At the same time, because Eric follows three years after Robert, there is a pattern I’ve observed — every stellar teacher Robert had is gone or on the verge of changing jobs by the time Eric hits the same grade. So, yes, there are wonderful teachers — and my hat is off to them, considering they had to stand a training in education. Yes, I know I did too, but it was more bearable in Portugal — but we’re running them out of the system as fast as we can.
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